What is Digg?82 Comments
- Scottamus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+35I always get "Validation Incomplete: Unable to Perform Validation" which basically means they can neither confirm nor deny whether my copy is legit (It is by the way (at least I bought it from staples)) which leaves me with the limited update rights of a pirate.
- spengy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+25Yes, I can blame them for trying to protect their product. At least in the case of WGA. It is an inconvenience to paying customers, and it fails on many legit installs anyway.
We've already got:
1)Serial numbers
2)online or phone activation
now we've got
3)WGA
How many steps do we need before we have a working product? Pretty paranoid there, microsoft. Maybe we will use your OS if you stop treating us like criminals by default. - phlll, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Microsoft, STOP WGA NOW!
Your customers deserve better! - Cytranic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17I have a brand new 2 month old laptop from dell sitting right here, failing validiation. Its a Media Center 2005 with a genuine hologram stick on the underside. Whats up MS?
- nerddiver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15At what point do you draw the line between business needs (anti-piracy) and customer service (ie, ticked off customers)? I understand that there are very little alternatives (yes..Linux....OSX...I get it), but are there any lemon laws for this sort of thing?
- RandomSkratch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14When I installed Vista Beta and then removed it, XP was giving me the "This is a counterfeit version" crap. It took me a few days of trying to remove it and then it just stopped. No idea what I did but this kind of stuff should not be happening.
- sneakerelph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11IE6 under WINE (don't ask, its for development) passes the WGA check just fine. isn't that ironic?
- IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10The MS baseline Analyzer tool will show you all missing critical updates and has a direct link to the downloads
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/tools/mbsahome.mspx - gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I'd like to add that you may have a problem after only upgrading your motherboard's BIOS without even changing any hardware at all :)
- liquidizer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The actual words in the article are:
"80% of all WGA validation failures are due to unauthorized use of leaked or stolen volume license keys."
Which means 20% are not caused by leaked or stolen volume licence keys. But that doesn't encompass all forms of piracy. It doesn't, for example, include me sharing my install disks with friends. So you can't say:
"If 80% ARE caused by pirated keys, the other 20% ARE NOT. "
because that's not what the article claims. The article claims that 80% of alerts are caused by a specific type of piracy, and implies that 20% are not caused by that specific type of piracy. That doesn't necessarily mean that the other 20% are legitimate installs. - thallium, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11If it was any software company, not just Microsoft, they'd have a vested interest in protecting their products. MS is in the right to try and stop pirates. They're just going about it in an inconsistent and irresponsible way, and it's going to cost them customers in the long run.
- gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The problem is that that should be taken care of by WPA, not WGA. WPA is supposed to check whether or not you're using your key on the same computer or whether you've installed it on a different machine. That wasn't the job of WGA as far as I knew...and it shouldn't be as someone might upgrade their hardware after activating through WPA which may, for some reason, invalidate WGA without making them redo their WPA activation. Really, it's all a bunch of annoying nonsense from MS.
- thejadedmonkey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I completely agree, it's super flawed. I've never had a problem with it...I mean, it validaed my machine just fine, which was a HUGE surprise for me!
- carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5when you pull in 30 billion a year, you better be able to stand some bad PR.
- NoSuchAgency, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11"also you could always social engineer microsoft out of a legit key like a "friend" did."
Details please :D - MidwayPC, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Make sure you read the statement right. It's not 20% of the WHOLE customer base, it's just 20% of the FAILED validations. That's a much smaller number.
- Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4See, this is the whole point. If you have a problem with your install, you can just get in contact in MS and they will help you resolve the matter. I don't see whats so hard about that.
Secondly, i dont believe that MS should have to uninstall WGA until the visible keys thing is resolved, as far as i'm concerned, if you are dumb enough to leave your MS key on your box, or in plain view, it's either the company you got it froms fault, or your own for doing that. So no reason for MS to have to uninstall the feature just cuz of that.
Lastly, I get tired of people saying there is no alternative to MS. If you don't like MS, switch to Apple, and see if they give you more alternatives. The only reason there is no viable alternative to MS is because they were smarter business men, the only current alternative for PC's is Linux, which last i checked there were a few HUNDRED distro's out there to choose from. As for your work PC being shut down cuz of invalidation, 1 you shouldn't have to worry about that, cuz it's not your own computer, if it gets shut down, you go to your boss and say hey, apparently my PC isn't valid, i can't do anything till yous get me another one. and 2 i have yet to see an instance of a PC being denied boot up just because it's invalid. If it comes to that day that they decide to go that route, then i'm perfectly happy with it.
People just love badmouthing MS because they were caught being a monopoly. as far as i am concerned, they were just better business men. There are far worse companies out there right now that don't even get a whisper. Everyone just wants to jump on the I hate microsoft bandwagon, and a lot of them just do it so that they can hopefully be a part of a lawsuit and get some free cash out of it.
I personally believe the world owes microsoft a very large thank you. Without them PC's wouldn't be half as popular as they are now, and we wouldn't be here on Digg talking about all this.
So the way i see it, 20% or not, unless you are actually working for microsoft or one of there watchdogs and see the real reasons, and know what they are doing behind the scenes for yourself, perhaps it's just best to stick to the contacting them if you have a problem. Problems can't be fixed if they don't have people telling them something is wrong, and if enough people write an email stating a problem, they will get up and take notice. It's just comon business sence, which i am very sure microsoft has. - Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Ok, honestly, I do not see a problem with any of this. If microsoft wants to validate my install of Windows let them, its not like i need to validate every single time i turn on my computer, i manually install update once a month, and going through validation is not a hassle to me. I believe microsoft has the right to protect there products from theft, and with piracy being as out of control as it is, we can't honestly blame them for going this far, cuz part of the blame falls on those of us who decided to pirate copies of Windows.
Now, for the record, since i completed college i did purchase a valid copy of windows, and i also have legal copies running on my work computer and laptop. I'm also running linux on dual boot systems. I personally have not had a problem with microsoft. I format my computer roughtly every 8 months and do re-installs as a personal preference, and even doing that, i've never had a single problem.
If piracy wasn't such a big issue, we wouldn't be at the point we are today with WGA. I don't agree with all of microsofts tactics, but i believe this was the right move to make, and that if you actually went out and found these people that are complaining so much, you will find that they are running pirated versions of the software and are just looking for another reason to bad mouth microsoft.
Thats my 2 cents, thank you - speedyrev, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Microsoft has a tortoise and hare mentality. They think that because they are leading, they can tick off their customers. Linux and OSX tortoises are looking better and better.
- SuperSloth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Marked as inaccurate.
Article claims that 80% of WGA failures are for leaked or stolen volume license keys. That doesn't mean the other 80% are *not* leaked or stolen. It means they're not **volume license keys**! The other 20% are for keys that are for non-corporate versions of the OS.
Additionally, even if the keys are not leaked, stolen, or otherwise pirated, they can still be in use illegally. Using a copy of WinXP 6 times at once invalidates it, even if you own all those computers. Using an OEM copy of WinXP on two systems invalidates is since you cannot move OEM licenses to new systems.
The problem is a false positive: marking a copy of Windows as invalid when it is valid. If I have one PC with one OEM copy of WinXP that came installed on it and WGA says it's invalid, *that* is a false positive. - gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4We're not even talking about piracy here. We're talking about the legitimate users who are getting screwed by MS. A more appropriate analogy would be the lifetime Ford owner who can't get his car repaired when it breaks because Ford [incorrectly] believes that he stole the car.
I generally agree with you about being "forced" to commit piracy though. - Rhipf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3One of the big problems I have with WGA is how easy it is to fail the authentication. I had a customer bring in their laptop with a notice that it had failed the WGA. The cause turned out to be that the system date was a month fast (set to July while actual date was June). Should a faullty date really cause authentication to fail?
- carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6i never had a problem with the nazis, they didn't haul away anyone i knew...
- Doughboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Funny how people cannot read the actual article. Microsoft does not admit a 20% failure rate!
"Through its spokeswoman, Microsoft said that “80% of all WGA validation failures are due to unauthorized use of leaked or stolen volume license keys."
Now what about other forms of Windows XP piracy like the Keygen (used to make activation keys for XP, XP Corp etc.) or actual code cracking of dll's or however it may be done. Both of these type of hacks have been detected by WGA. I think the point that Microsoft is trying to say is that most people are still caught using volume licene keys which were leaked/stolen from companies.
This whole claim is stupid and is like saying that if 80% of people drive a car, then the other 20% must not drive, even though they actually may be driving in trucks or motorcycles. - areric, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3am i the only one sick of the arrow thing being used to call attention to a topic?
- GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is ridiculous, you are all arguing over statistics when you have no idea what kind of scope they cover. In order for 99% of your arguments to make sense, you need to figure out how many users failed WGA!
- brandizzle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"At what point do you draw the line between business needs (anti-piracy) and customer service"
They can continue until they lose customers over it. And I have not heard of anyone leaving Windows because of WGA. So they're still well within that point.
From a consumer standpoint they shouldn't annoy their customers at all. Even if they do switch what would probably happen is the average person would just buy an Apple computer in a couple years when the current computer dies. - thejadedmonkey, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10No, it is right. If 80% ARE caused by pirated keys, the other 20% ARE NOT. Yes, it's twisting it to make it sound like it's caused by MS, but it's not factually wrong.
- sadsac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Four out of five dentists recommend sugarless gum, for their patients who chew gum.
That doesn't tell us anything about the 20% of dentists who don't recommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum. - hiscity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It appears that if someone copies the key-code label off a machine and tries to use it on other installs -- it will invalidate the copies and the original when WGA checks are done.
So your legit install can be trashed if someone clones your keycode on another install. The culprit could be a younger relative, a disgruntled employee, or even a shady retailer that nicks your code. Microsoft should put out a security notice that all externally visible key-codes be covered or removed.
We've all likely seen workstations with keycodes prominently displayed. There is possibility of broadscale sabotage of business and government systems if their key-codes are compromised, resulting in potential loss of productivity or data if systems have to be reinstalled.
Nor does it take long to jot down the code -- a quick picture snapshot via a cell phone could record the codes. Microsoft needs to uninstall or inactivate WGA, until these matters are worked out. - liquidizer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2And just to add that the 20% aren't necessarily valid copies that failed. They were just 20% that didn't conform to the pattern of 'unauthorized use of leaked or stolen volume license keys' but which could have been pirated in other ways.
- teamparadox, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9This story is inacurate. MS stated that they dont have a point by point breakdown of that 20% but the mention altered copies of Windows and OEM installs. Which could mean someone edited their upgrade cd's to be a full install or that people are using OEM installs which dont always require cd keys on other machines.
Im sure there are some false positives but I highly doubt its the 20% this blogger is trying to make it out to be. Right now this is a hot issue which will bring page views but the way the writer went about this article wasnt exactly truthfull - gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3liquidizer: Why wouldn't WPA catch that like it's supposed to? Do we need WGA to be doing this as well? While it's easy to fix a problem with WPA activations by calling MS, they don't really give you those same options with WGA. If WPA fails erroneously you can just call MS, answer a few questions, and activate over the phone. It's a PITA, but you can do it (and I have had to do it many times unfortunately...for my legal copy being used legally on only one machine). If you fail a WGA check because of some problem with MS's scheme what are you supposed to do?
- peskypescado, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm glad I'm not the only one who has seen this. I have 3 computers at one client's office that say the license was stolen. Don't even get me started with the headache I have gone through with Microsoft over this crap.
- Neilyos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2One copy that I installed for a friend recently wouldn't validate, because the ActiveX component of WGA wasn't installed for some reason. Once I got that sorted out, it ran fine. There's usually a workaround to these things, and Microsoft is willing to help you on it. For those of you with an illegal copy, that's your own damn fault.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yeah its easy, I got a key but it still wouldn't validate. Apparently there are different CD versions/keys that go with them, so if you can't give them the CD-code, the key they give you might not work.
- takeda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I didn't need to yell at them (although I was prepared to do it) but actually I was using the serial number that was on the computer's sticker, the only difference was that I didn't used the original OEM cd (I couldn't find it) I had OEM from dell. They activated it without problems.
I think that installation is still legal, since I used the computer's serial number, I only used different CD.
Anyway, as for me, I don't plan to upgrade to anything beyond Windows 2000, I think that was the best windows they ever made, and if I'll be forced not to use it anymore, I'll guess I'll switch to linux.
There's nothing in XP, or Vista that I would be missing. - rebz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I had this problem yesterday when reinstalling Windows XP Home on a brand new system. The way I got it to finally work is by going to www.microsoft.com/genuine and downloading the "verify" tool. "Validate Windows". (Do this in Internet Explorer - FF was giving me issues.) After this, I went back to windows update and everything was dandy. Also, there is a WGA debug tool that microsoft offers on their site somewhere (I forgot where or what its called, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.)
Anyway, this should solve your problem (or, with the diagnostic tool, begin to let you know what's going wrong.) - joshjoneswas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I will bet anything that one in five people who read it will pick up the phone and call microsoft next time the are prompted to.
- doodlebumm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1People keep saying, "Get in touch with Microsoft." I can honestly say that in the last 20 years I have yet to be able to speak to a person at Microsoft. One time I spent over 2 hours on hold and never spoke with a single person.
Not that I'm trying to justify anything here, but where do I send the bill to at Microsoft for all the lost time I've spent trying to get their crappy software to work?
Yes, I use Linux, because I get better support, I can fix just about anything I need to, NO viruses, and it costs SIGNIFICANTLY less, given the free software that is available, and the fact that I don't have to waste all my time trying to fix windows problems or wait for the system to reboot all the time. - Feej, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I've purchased six Holden Commodores in the past 12 years that have cost me a total of around $170K! I'm sick of having to pay for Commodores and now I want a Commodore that has interior leather and can do 220K easy and I'm told I have to buy a HSV! They cost a fortune!
I think I'll just steal one......... - liquidizer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As a paying customer, I'm not in favour of WGA or WPA. The argument against them risks losing its way because people are generalising it to the point of inaccuracy - we can't say 'Microsoft says 20% of WGA notifications are not pirated' because that's not true when you look at the detail of what they are saying. I've tried to correct this above.
- Dotnetsky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't have an issue with companies being able to make a legitimate effort to protect their corporate assets against piracy. What I do dislike intensely is when they foist something on you via fallacious marketing as a security patch and don't tell you that it phones home on every boot. Additionally, I had to put my product ID in when I installed the product, and it phoned home at that time to activate the OS. Shouldn't that be sufficient? A real F-U by Microsoft IMHO.
- c0uchm0nster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Product activation is easy, and not really an anti-piracy step:
One of my clients has 25 copies of MS Office 2003. However they threw out the documentation for 24 copies (including serial numbers) - so I've only got 1 copy I can install office with for them. To activate I just call up the number provided during activation, tell them that I had to re-install windows on the machine and now I'm reinstalling office. They ask how many machines I have this copy installed on, I say just this one, they give me an activation code.
As for WGA, I don't see what the big deal is right now (besides the phoning home). The only things I've ever run into where you need a valid WGA is the Platform SDK and ie7 beta. - Shadowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1a 20% failure rate is not a minor bug.* It's a massive gaping hole.
Did you read the article? or just the title. 20% is a number that the author came up with, and if you read is method, it's flawed. Microsoft stated that 80% of the failed WGA's come from VLK's (corperate edition) A more accurate (but still false) interpretation would be to say that 20% came from home edition, or off the shelf professional. If you read the article closely, you would see the spin that is put on the statistic. This is a non story. - Shadowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have had basic cable for 15 years now, now I want HBO, but that lousy cable company tells me I have to pay for the extra feature. Those Bastards, imagine the nerve of them charging for an additional feature. I think I will just steal cable instead. C'mon... you want streaming video from your PC, but you don't want to pay for it. Then figure out how to write the program yourself. And when you have spent the 40K US on your Degree, and still can't do it, then hire a programmer for 60K us a year, to take the 2 years to write it. Honestly the cost of Windows Media center is a bargin. On a side note, if you can browse the web with the 360 (don't know cause I don't have one.) Check out www.orb.com, you can stream media from your PC to any web enabled device.
- Shadowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think it's even worse that that.. More like if 80% o people drive then 20% must walk. Negating all other forms of transporation, Bicycles, Crawling, Trucks, motorcycles.
It's rediculous how a hack author can spin a statistic, and have all the idiots jumping on the bandwagon to bash microsoft. This is the same guy that wrote the false kill switch piece. - Shadowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I also marked it as Inaccurate. Guys Guys Guys. Read the article. The direct statment from microsoft is that 80% is caused by Volume license keys. VLK's are issued to business that purchase multiple copies of XP at one time via the open license program. Most Piracy is performed by hijacked copies of these keys. You could just as easily make the argument that the other 20% is via bootlegged copies of standard off the shelf XP.
I have also had WGA fail installing IE Beta 7, because the installer uses and Outdated version of WGA. All The quote from Microsoft says, is that the most prevelant form of detected piracy is stolen VLK's. You can't interpet anything else from the quote. - Kruncher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Where I work, I see alot of issues with the OEM keys. They will fail the WGA and I have to change the key to the one provided with the compuer to get it to activate. Could it be that people are "stealing" the OEM key, Microsoft finds out and then bans it?
- Shadowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Read the Quote guys read the quote. The athor bends the quote from MS to make it sound like something it's not. Let me simplify it for you. 80% of Failed WGA are related to VLK's (volume license keys). VLK's are the keys used by corperations for multiple copies of XP, they have a single CD key for as many installs of XP as they are licensed for. So IT guy from Big unnammed company takes this key home and uses it to install coperate edition of XP on his personal computer, or sells the key, or is fired, and distributes the key whatever. The other 20% is mostl likely other forms of piracy, you can't read that the other 20% are false positives. If I told you that 80% of the PC's sold by CompUSA are sony, does that mean the other 20% are gateway? No the other 20% are a mix of all other available options.
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