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146 Comments
- EXTER, on 10/10/2007, -4/+116< obligatory >***** THE MPAA< / obligatory >
- MercedRocks, on 10/10/2007, -20/+87"There's nothing about what the Pirate Bay does or what the Pirate Party does that is legitimate. There's nothing philosophically principled about it. They steal copyright content and accept advertising dollars based on taking other people's work. There's nothing noble about it."
...........there's also nothing legitimate about making people pay $10 bucks to see a crappy movie. - InetRoadkill, on 10/10/2007, -1/+50I guess that means that the MPAA/RIAA are 'legitimate' thieves by comparison.
- diggduggjoe, on 10/10/2007, -3/+44The Pirate Party does nothing more than ask us to debate this subject in public view. There is nothing illegitimate about that. Copyright is only law. Law can and will be changed by the loudest voice. Today, that is the MPAA or RIAA. Tomorrow, it may be the public demanding fair use!
- deweyhewson, on 10/10/2007, -16/+44Last I checked, nobody is "making" you spend any money for any movie.
- Ghoztt, on 10/10/2007, -11/+39So normal politicians (besides Dr. Paul and a few others) are legitimate thieves? And obviously the MPAA has no problem with those legitimate thieves....
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -5/+18They are forcing him to with crappy movie because they no longer make good movie.
- Shootfast, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12No they aren't, you just can't see them....
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13If you're going to have crime, it might as well be organized crime.
- Havelock Vetinati - lazyrussian, on 10/10/2007, -5/+15As I always say - if you can find a loophole in the system, you're more than obligated to exploit it for yourself. Kudos for being smart enough to find it (meaning, kudos to TPB and their Party).
- xSEED, on 10/10/2007, -8/+18anyone still cares what mpaa says?
- bsonline, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Well, the TPB isn't forcing me to pay 10 bucks for a movie. :-)
- harvinator24, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11Am i the only person who has decided to sign up for the pirate party of america on the dmv slip?
- qwuinc, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Try using "MAFIAA" instead.
- cyrax6, on 10/10/2007, -3/+12Smart move MPAA. Pirate party members are illegitimate thieves and that makes the rest of the parties and their members along with MPAA what? Legitimate thieves?
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10They should sue the MPAA for slander.
Copyright infringement is not theft. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9You're forgetting that the 'authors' have almost NOTHING to do with the 'owners' of IP.
When was the last time you bought a CD or track from iTunes and knew that all the profits went to the actual author.
They don't. They go to the greedy ***** that signed up the real talent then homogenized it, ***** with the sound quality (compression etc), shuffled it into a particular genre where its not allowed to move from, and then reap the huge profits.
The authors are lucky to see 1 or 2 bucks from a $30 purchase you make. - Zaxcomp, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8No.
Look at the profit margins they currently have. If they really are hurting due to torrents, which they aren't, they would lower prices to boost demand. The fact that they aren't, and are turning record profits is a sign that "piracy" is not harming the movie industry in the slightest. In markets where piracy is a major problem, for example Russia, the movie industry does lower prices to turn profit; I.E.: R5 movie releases.
You cannot compare him saying he will not see movies because the cost-value just isn't worth it, to saying he should be making less money. The movie industry is not guaranteed their money, the consumer decides that. - WoollyMittens, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10Dear MPAA,
the laws you bought don't work ouside the USA.
Please ***** off. Thanks.
p.s. An illegitimate thief is a tautology. - joebogarde, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7The concept of try before you buy is applicable in every other market. They let you test drive a car, you may view the quality of a tv before you buy it.
MP3 compression effectively compresses 1440kbps stream to 128kbps ~ or more. This is basically FM quality or slightly superior to FM.
Back in the 1980s people would make mix tapes, if you liked the songs, you bought the album to have the tangible asset, with cover art, lyrics etc. This also acted as viral marketing, and brought attention to the best artists. In Metallica's early days their fans passed around pirated tapes which brought the band much needed attention.
15 years later they were suing their fans for downloads.
The new model is de-centralized distribution, which will eventually eliminate the middle man, as record distribution is now obsolete. Marketing can be handled by artists on the web, along side their distribution networks.
The lawsuits filed by record companies will be self-penalizing in the long run, as artists begin to understand the new marketplace, and the record companies bad PR from suing potential customers, and missing the inherent opportunity for music companies to release a superior quality and new secure format for sale, while promoting artists on filesharing for free in mp3 format, at no cost to themselves.
The resulting promotion would be be beneficial for a savvy record exec, that understood the new distribution model. - Chandon, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Why not? There is no technical, social, ethical, or economic reason why it shouldn't be.
- pnrl, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6illegitimate thieves!? So MPAA is legitimate thief or what?
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8we need to sue the roads because they are responsible for drug traffic!
- Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Funny. Around here, fair use laws has done *exactly that* for over 20 years now...
- Firehed, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5He said that incredibly idiotically. Dropping ticket prices should encourage more people to pay, in the same way that you'd probably have paid for your copy of Windows instead of pirating it had it only cost $20.
What he's failed to realize is that very few people actually skip movies because a ticket costs, holy *****, eight bucks, the scoundrels! They gripe and complain a lot, for sure, but they almost always pay it anyways. The might be inclined to go to more movies if it were cheaper, but two hours of half-decent entertainment for eight bucks is pretty damn cheap. I bet you'll pay a lot more than $4/hr for tickets to your favorite sporting event.
The truth of the matter is that most people who are pirating movies either a) wouldn't pay no matter how cheap it is, out of principle, or b) already saw the movie in theatres at least once. I've downloaded plenty of movies. Half of them I've never even watched, and of the other half, there were possibly two that I hadn't paid to see in theatres already. Early torrents have pretty much unwatchable quality more often than not - just above youtube quality, and by the time there's something reasonably watchable that's hit the scene, it's already at the cheap theatres. You know why they can charge less? Because the movie companies take a percentage of ticket sales relative to the release date. If the movie has been out a month, the theatre often keeps 80% or more of the ticket sale, in addition to 100% of the concessions. Opening weekend, they might see 5% if they're lucky.
There are all sorts of arguments we can make here, about pricing, morality, and everything else. The pricing model is rather stupid, but it's still a pretty good price, all things considered. For the first two or three weeks of a movie's release, the theatres are SURVIVING off of food sales, so you're only hurting the local guys by hitting your local convenience store first. Yes, if the big guys didn't insist on taking 95-100% of ticket sale revenue on opening weekend, you'd see cheaper food in the theatres. And if that were the case, you might be inclined to go a bit more often; in turn, the added traffic could allow them to lower prices further, or at least provide better service.
But whatever you want to do, don't make stupid gut-reaction comments. Think them through, from all viewpoints. If movie companies make no money, they die. Then you have nothing to pirate. With HD recorders becoming affordable, you might start seeing independent content that doesn't suck, but it's still probably not worth paying for (and you'll bitch about the ads). At the end of the day, it's a capitalist society. If you don't like it, move to a communist country. There's nothing wrong with them, other than that they also tend to be dictatorships. - fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9If you can find a loophole and convert it into $x,000 a day revenue then by all means go for it. I for one wish I could make that much money by doing nothing more than keep a couple of servers running. I'd even bend over and pretend I like idiots and am fighting some sort of crusade if that's what it took to keep the money coming.
- Jugalator, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4If he would, what he would feel would be wrong though, affected by his biased position in that event. It's not thievery, and it's not sharing penalties with crimes of thievery.
- Goblinkiller, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Some pirates thinks of this as a fight until the industry learn how to deliver their music to their listeners. Other's just want free music and goes along with the arguments just to justify it. There are alternatives today - take Jamendo as an example. But people don't download from artist giving their music away from free - they are still downloading from the artists who doesn't want to give their music away for free.
For a change to happen you not only have to protest but also embrace the possible ways of improvement. You won't have the biggest artists today licensing their music under Creative Commons tomorrow - although you can make the artists licensing their music under Creative Commons instead be the biggest artists of tomorrow. - MiDri, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4It's more like some one that stands on the side of the road and directs the drug mule where to go...
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4My music is "infringed upon" it's the single greatest way to spread my music, what other way can I get people across the globe hearing my music?!
That being the case it still doesn't make file sharing theft, it's copyright infringement.
Get it through your tiny little brain. - fanclerks, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Are you insane?? That was one of the things that helped the industry back in the day of the cassette tape. Friends would make mix tapes and share them with their friends and people would find new material they like and more than likely end up buying it. The industry now just doesn't like the fact that the material that's shared is an almost perfect replica of the material being shared, so less likely to go and buy the CD.
- Firehed, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8True, but that doesn't stop me from blocking their ads. When I'm going there for Linux distros and public domain material. I know as well as anyone that they have illegal content there. Their hypocrisy on the whole "information wants to be free!" thing rivals the churches.
People that know me know that I can find them out of they're looking for a... software demo. But I completely ignore anyone who offers to pay me for it, which has happened on several occasions. If you don't want to pay full price, I understand - some of that stuff's expensive! But if you want to come to me for a discount... why the hell should *I* be making money from someone else's work?
If someone's paying for software, that money better be going to the developer. You can't stop pirates, and from quite a few perspectives there's a big issue with that. But to me, it's not nearly as much of an issue as someone OTHER THAN THE DEVELOPER making money from that software. Or movie. Or music. Or book. Or game. Whatever. If money is changing hands, it had better be changing hands between the party that created it and the party that's receiving it. I certainly don't want to pay a ton for software, but I'd feel a lot better knowing that anything that TPB took in from advertising revenue over the exact cost of their servers and hosting was donated to the EFF, FSF, or some other techno-freedom organization.
Granted, the MPAA is completely wrong in saying that they steal copyrighted content. Their users do, and then they upload the location of said material as a torrent file, which TPB hosts. Same general idea, and doesn't take away from their actual point, but I'd just like to note the inaccuracy. - slezzzter, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Is man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? --Andrew Ryan
- PeppermintPig, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I'm not completely comfortable with the ideological positions of the Pirate Party. That said, there's still good reason to challenge intellectual protectionism, one such reason being that there is no right to profits. That would be an expectation, an entitlement. If you want to protect an idea, don't let it see the light of day, or join an agency that respects creators and condemns 'thieves' on a voluntary basis.
- PeppermintPig, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Must we use force to get others to respect us?
It's important to disambiguate property from intellectual property, but we can never ignore the effort that someone may place in the creation of novel ideas or technologies. I want to give credit where it is due.
Somewhere between our positions, I think there is some common ground. Digging you up for a quality argument. :) - kindrobot, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4It's nice to know in a world so rampant with terrorism, we spend so much time and money investigating all those murders out there. *sniff*
- init100, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3There is no specific number X for which you could say that Sweden has an X-party system.
- alibenx, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Yeah this has everything to do with Ron Paul. Are you guys more impressed by 'doctor'? Because there are far fewer congressmen than doctors...
- kindrobot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3No, actually I didn't miss anything. Let me explain. I wish I could do it slowly so you'll get it.
The point is you could insert ANY two "issues" in there and it would always just sound stupid. But it's appealing!! And that's all that counts, right? - MiDri, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3No it belongs to the poor, says the man in Washington.
No it belongs to god, says the man in the Vatican.
No it belongs to the people, says the man in Moscow. - init100, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4The (Swedish) Pirate Party is completely unaffiliated with The Pirate Bay, and do not buy votes by supplying pirated goods.
- UglieJosh, on 10/10/2007, -6/+9Yea, people want this issue to be a lot more black and white than what it is.
- Harbinger67, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Because this is Digg, and that's what we do.
- spookyttws, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Those of us who want to pirate are going to, no one I know has decided to change their ways because of the threat of lawsuit. In fact we simply implement better ways to make our pirating safer, faster and more secure (private trackers, invites, safe peer/peer guardian). It seems like a waste of money, that could be put to better use producing better content or coming up with more innovative ways to deliver it that would make me want to actually pay for the product. I'm all for supporting the artists, but actually am turned away from buying stuff because it would give this horrible middleman my money.
- SeBBBe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The obligatory tags arent obligatory, because that claim is equally true and related every time someone mentions the MPAA. I mean, did they ever do anything good?
- zanzzz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Well said! With Vista and HD the content protection strangles the baby in the crib. I think Bluetooth and HD DVD is more about content protection schemes and selling people new hardware than aesthetic advancement.
- actorboy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Apparently the system is 10-party in Sweden.
- Firehed, on 10/10/2007, -5/+8Buried. Of all the places you can spam the RP propaganda, this is the wrong place for it. Not to mention that you've longsince convinced everyone on Digg who's going to be convinced that he should win. So shut the ***** up about it already.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5YES! GOOD ONE!
- mpineiro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3To facilitate easier voter registration, many US states have allowed citizens to register to vote, and in so, choose a party when they are getting or renewing a driver's license.
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