What is Digg?100 Comments
- mvent2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+179@Unr3a1:
Firefox already had the CSS support necessary to pass Acid2. The only thing wrong with it was the reflow methods. Reflow is a very complicated part of the browser where the page must be redrawn each time new data is received. The entire reflow process was completely rewritten by two people, which is the cause for the long wait.
Now that the reflow code is cleaner, expect inline-block support soon! :) - noamsml, on 10/12/2007, -9/+173Except for IE, that is.
- Unr3a1, on 10/12/2007, -29/+150I might get modded down for this, but... why did this have to take so long to fix?
- noamsml, on 10/12/2007, -5/+118First Frontpage dies, and now this. I'm having a great morning.
- Odweaver, on 10/12/2007, -2/+81I like IE7s rendering of the acid 2 test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ie7acid2.png - akira117, on 10/12/2007, -17/+82What is this bozo referring to?
Opera passed it a while ago, but I don't like the layout of opera.
IE is miles behind everyone else, like always.
Also I don't think this test was on the top of their list. - piesforyou, on 10/12/2007, -1/+50"NOBODY wants to have to download and install a god damn browser just to see a website. Nobody. Ever. It will never happen. Not once."
That sentence is pretty funny when taken out of context. - aaronm67, on 10/12/2007, -11/+58@akira117
Then you're an idiot. Redirecting 75-80% of your traffic away from your website isn't a good idea.
I'm an Opera user. Occasionally I come across those sites that have the IE Blocker thing...from www.explorerdestroyer.com or whatever. Sometimes I see that. I don't even bother looking at the site.
NOBODY wants to have to download and install a god damn browser just to see a website. Nobody. Ever. It will never happen. Not once. - harikaried, on 10/12/2007, -2/+44It's not just Acid 2 that got fixed - which has been fixed for some time. It just that only until a couple days back did the code get officially combined with the rest of the code that everyone else has been working on. Now a larger number of nightly testers can look for bugs on the official nightly versions.
From bz's blog ( http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/bz/archives/017302.html )
Reflow branch landed
After almost exactly two years of working on it, David Baron landed the reflow branch last night. In addition to fixing numerous bugs (including all remaining Acid2 issues) and improving layout performance some, the changes significantly simplify, the table column balancing code and block reflow. The landing lays the groundwork for implementing inline-block and inline-table display values, as well as some further optimization work.
** I'm amazed at David's patience with this project over the last two years, in the face of what must have been quite nasty merge conflicts on numerous occasions, and I'm glad he stuck with it! ** - darksheer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+41First, while it may appear as "all of a sudden" to you, this is very likely the culmination of a lot of work over a decent period of time. The code has likely existed for many weeks, just hasn't been merged into the official source tree.
Second, the CSS code in firefox has been correct for a long time--only the reflow code needed correcting. - cronot, on 10/12/2007, -9/+47@darksheer:
Sorry, I'll have to be pedantic, but strictly speaking, you're wrong too. The purpose of the Acid2 test is to test how a browser handles _malformed_ CSS statements. If it handles it correctly, it should display the smile face. It doesn't test for CSS conformity, but rather error handling. Firefox already had proper CSS support as per the specs long before this build. - barktwiggs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+36Well, Opera was the first 'windows' or 'cross-platform' browser to pass the Acid2. Konqueror ad Safari were compliant a little bit before Opera was, but they were only Mac and Linux.
- LegendarySock, on 10/12/2007, -1/+37Ah Yohan, that joke went wayyy over your head.
- Nanobe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+34Acid2 is not, as some have suggested, a pointless test. It tests a number of things, many of which I very much want to see supported in Internet Explorer. I consider Acid2 a high priority for IE (although not necessarily the highest priority). For other browsers like Firefox, Opera, and Safari, most of the problems were due to fringe case differences, but web developers do run across those differences from time to time and it's good to have these things fixed. For non-IE browsers, I wouldn't saying Acid2 was a particularly high priority, but a test suite is a test suite and it's good to resolve any differences with the standard.
There has been some misconception that Acid2 only tested error handling. Let me clear that up now: a very small part of Acid2 dealt with error handling. The purpose *wasn't* to see how the browsers handle invalid pages, but to see how they will handle future not-yet-supported features of the standard. If some new grammar is added to the CSS standard, it will be added in such a way that older browsers following the standardized error handling algorithms will ignore the new grammar in a graceful way. If browsers don't handle unrecognized grammar correctly, it'll limit the growth potential of the CSS standard. But again, this was only a rather small part of Acid2.
Another misconception is that passing Acid2 implies full standards compliance. FAR from it. Acid2 only tests a very small portion of the standards -- specifically some of the stuff that isn't supported well. Safari passed Acid2 ages ago, yet it still doesn't properly support background-repeat:no-repeat when the element is smaller than the background image and the image is positioned off to one side. Konqueror passes Acid2, yet it doesn't properly support outlines on elements with overflow:hidden. Firefox passes Acid2, yet I notice outline bugs on that very build. Acid2 is a nice milestone, but it isn't the end of the road. - darksheer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+37The point is not that it draws the smiley face perfectly--the point is that you can expect firefox to handle almost all CSS statements exactly as they are written in the specifications.
- pap3rw8, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28verified as passing.
http://cuberoot.us/ff3.png
if you have the latest build, take the test:
http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/ - riceweb, on 10/12/2007, -7/+32Not really....
"The Acid2 test should render correctly on any browser that follows the W3C HTML and CSS 2.0 specifications."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid2 - bdmbdm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26It's good and all that FF passes the Acid2 test, but the fact is that IE is far from passing this. So there's really no need to get rattled up since web developers still have deal with IE. :
- Snakedal337, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21Not much really, just one step closer to making all websites look the same in every browser, and making life easier for web developers.
- cronot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20@riceweb:
Scrolling down, on the same page:
"Since Acid 2 also tests how web browsers deal with faulty code, it will fail W3C validation. This is expected and purposefully intended by its designers."
The W3C also has guidelines on how browsers should deal with malformed statements, so your quote is correct as well. But keep in mind that people are supposed to write statements correctly - which Firefox should interpret and render correctly, and that's one of the reasons some people find the test not too useful. If it would test for purely correctly written CSS, then it would be more useful. - akira117, on 10/12/2007, -6/+25List of IE bugs: http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channel9.InternetExplorerBugs
- podgey22, on 10/12/2007, -27/+45>> why did this have to take so long to fix?
Because Acid2 is a really ridiculous test. The only reason anyone would proactively want to pass it is to rub other people's faces in the dirt. I repeat: there is no real-life use in passing Acid2.
But either way... At least the opera gangbangers can stop lording that over the firefox faithfuls. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19After closely examining the photo finish, the judges decided to give Firefox fifth place. (Shiira uses WebKit/WebCore as a rendering engine, so I don't think it counts)
- DnasTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18To be fair, Shiira, Konqueror, and Safari all use essentially the same rendering engine.
(Shiira and Safari both use WebKit which is based on and returns code to Konqueror's KHTML.)
(And to be really picky, iCab has a slight problem in that it displays a scrollbar (Wikipedia.)) - pap3rw8, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19opera, safari, konqueror pass
complete list of compliant browsers here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid2#Compliant_browsers - VargVikernes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16"Being a medical doctor, and speaking a little conversational French, I feel it's safe to say that I know more than a little about browser compliance."
I just love posting this quote whenever web standards enter the discussion. - stisaac, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17How about we not talk like "I might get modded down for this but...." and just say what you want to say?
- MasteRR, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Frontpage died because they will soon be releasing a replacement. Expect new crap pages from a MS product in the future.
- angrycat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Too bad firefox almost ***** the bed when it tries to pass it, 400mb in RAM, maybe they should fix that first before they play with silly smiley faces.
- zmigliozzi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12and yet everyone still codes for IE... the non compliant..
- Cglass, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Lol bixing, did you expect Mozilla to call you and give you a step-by-step explanation of what changed. When they are writing the software, it is updated in pieces over time, but each piece is...uploaded .. all at once. Parts of this took 2 years to write. Heh I'm still struggling with what you mean, all of a sudden, did you expect they would have a countdown like Woot? You made me laugh.
- alwaysmc2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@cronot
Thanks for that explanation, I was just going to ask what the Acid 2 text actually did. - Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11"just one step closer to making all websites look the same in every browser", I'd say it's one step closer to IE rendering a page to look like one thing, and all the other browsers rendering it correctly.
The end of hacking to make a page look right in IE is still quite a way off. - harikaried, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"I want an upgrade to my car to make it fly like a plane."
Both the car and FF 2 don't have the infrastructure needed to make that kind of upgrade. The reflow branch that landed wasn't just a minor change that can be simply added while keeping everything else working correctly (in Firefox 2).
Firefox 3 *Alpha 1* was released today and the official final version is planned to be released in 6 months in May. - thomashallock, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8On the Mac the nose is a pixel off on the bottom left:
http://thomashallock.com/acid_mac.png - terinjokes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Safari and Konqueror also pass the test
EDIT: got beat to it twice! - tensvb, on 10/12/2007, -9/+16Congratulations to Firefox for the sixth place (after Safari, Opera, Shiira, Konqueror and iCab).
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Q*Bert? Is that you?
- stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Lots of people IM their friends to digg their story, so it will get lots of diggs fast. Yeah it kind of sucks.
- stalefries, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Ha! No! You're completely wrong! This change has made Firefox drastically worse!
/sarcasm - Lutz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7You don't have to put out with the opera zealots telling you about how firefox fails the acid2 test :)
- nofrak1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Call it a day? Would that be because they've already passed 10% market share or because they forced microsoft to develop a new browser to keep up, or because firefox is now the go to browser for the technologically inclined? Which one of those failures puts it over for you?
- suicidal-kid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Take that "Firefox Myths!"
- Nanobe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I forgot to mention Opera in my previous reply, so in keeping all fair: Opera passes Acid2, yet it treats processing instructions as elements with certain selectors, and it has its share of other bugs.
No major browser is fully compliant with either CSS 2 or CSS 2.1. Firefox and Opera are coming fairly close, though, and the massively huge CSS 3 is slowly trickling into Candidate Recommendation stage (the first stage at which browsers are supposed to try to support it). Here's to progress! - stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Now all we need are compiant webpages...
- Skeksis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Warning, I'm an Opera Troll :)
But anyways, this is great because with so many people adopting firefox it's just one more thing that puts it another mile in front of IE. Since FF is much more widely accepted than Opera any improvements they make to FF gets a digg from me. As long as IE dies who can really complain? - mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Several posters hit it.. we need a way to prove what CSS is valid and displays correctly between browsers... Acid2 is nice because it shows that the programmers are properly handling errors in CSS...but it doesn't show DESIGNERS that a browser will handle properly vaild CSS code in a uniform manor. THAT'S what is really needed. Some way to "agree" on what features work properly. We need a suite of CSS examples that are "officially" correct (validate and proper application) and demonstrate individual features and combinations. The trouble is that the sample sites out there aren't really offical. Browser programmers don't put enough weight in working on the features because somebody's "blog" says it doesn't work. W3C should get with Opera, Firefox, Safari, Konquerer, etc and develop the test cases.. then we can get back in the browser "arms race" to start using them.... They need a project to get some media attention and some direction to implementing things. Right now it's sort of in the "closet" most people probably don't know that there ARE web standards... and that the leading browser has crappy implementation.
- noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5A good programmer doesn't need to make a distiction. It is possible to code to support all browsers, it's just a pain in the ass that shouldn't be necessary. Every time I hit a site that excludes one browser or the other I want to grab the developers that did it and beat the hell out of them. If you can't do your job, don't take the job.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Wait....it crashes all the time? I didn't know that.. It's 32 MB, the most bloated thing ever! And of course because it's free and open-source, it's loaded with tons of spyware, and it uses 26MB RAM on my PC, it's just terrible. Just as terrible as my spelling that the build-in spell checker corrects. :((
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+12Mad slick! It might have taken a long time, but how many pages actually draw a smiley face like that? LOL...
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