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140 Comments
- Chewie67, on 10/12/2007, -1/+126In a word, I would say "NO".
What are they going to do? Fire you? - billisdog, on 10/12/2007, -9/+128I tell everyone to eat a dick regardless. It never hurts to be proactive like that.
- nyccharlie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+104That's a slap in the face.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+93Why bother claiming to have sold or given them away? If they've laid you off and want their ipod back, just tell them to eat a dick.
- MattS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+64The cost of 35 iPods (the number of people reportedly laid off) times $300 (the MSRP for the 30GB iPod) is $10,500. The value of the bad press they are getting - PRICELESS!
People (Natl Semi in this case) needs to learn to pick its battles. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+45Give them to the execs to take home for their children.
- right75, on 10/12/2007, -1/+44Wow, these people are CHEAP.
I'll have to keep this in mind next time I consider purchase of a NS product. - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -4/+44"In a word, I would say "NO".
What are they going to do? Fire you?"
Yeah, isn't that the reason people are usually escorted out of the building? The company should've said, "Hey, give the 30 gig versions back. We need to give those to interns, so we can give you guys the 60 gig versions!" Then laid them off. - orangetiki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+33Plus, you think they'll take you to court for 300 dollars? It would cost the company more in fees then what the iPod is worth.Horrible PR and the ex employees should post about it.
- rengeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31hahaha! I work for EDS...And you are right..
- tooslo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29Best fiscal year ever and they are willing to take the bad PR over this? Dug.
- Chewie67, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29@spacemanspork - "They can sue you in small claims court for the amount of money the iPod costs plus the legal fees it took to get it back."
Go ahead. First, virtually no small claims court will award legal fees for this type of judgment, so it will cost far more in legal costs than the $300 for the iPod.
@miriv365 - "Have you ever tried to collect a small claims court settlement? Its nearly impossible."
Exactly. I found this out the hard way earlier this year. The court ruled in my favor against a general contractor who took a down payment from me then vanished. He never even showed up at court. The judge ruled in my favor, but then basically told me there was nothing they could do to collect. Unless the contractor decided to pay on his own, they couldn't make him.
Some legal system we have... - Arch77, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27The title of this article should read: "Company Is Delusional"
- Csabo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27It sounds so childish. I can't imagine what the company would do with the used iPods. Sell them perhaps? The few bucks they'd get for them would not be worth the negative PR.
- lordsandwich, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27If their severance packages aren't affected by this, then by all means they should flip them off. Otherwise, it isn't worth risking a lot more money.
- Night, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26Wait a sec why are they giving their employes iPod's if they can't afford to keep all of their employes working?
- they, on 10/12/2007, -0/+25...overheard from a disgruntled ex-employee, "Heh, heh, heh... Well. This will make up for the fifteen hundred dollars worth of hardware that ... was liberated, as I walked out the door."
- Grimdotdotdot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24They can - they've just had their best fiscal year.
Probably hired a callcenter in India, like everyone else... - fak3r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25..and it brings up a good point, loyalty to a company is just not what it used to be, and it's because companies treat you like this. It's nothing personal, it's just business, so it's how I work as a contractor with the firms I work for; it's 4 o'clock, time to go. I get in early enough, I work hard, but when it's time I'm gone. Perhaps I'm not the 'take one for the team' staying up all night helping some no-brain fix a server (yeah, we outsource all of our *nix administration, and I end up mentoring them enough in the daytime). When it comes to layoffs they don't care, so I fail to see why I need to give more than I'm giving.
Call me cynical, but that's the nature of work these days if you don't want to give up your life to a mid-level manager. (plus the more jobs you work, the higher on the pay scale you'll get - so you won't have an early heart attack cause you're giving up on having a life, and you get paid more: it's a win-win). My friend always had the "***** you" money so that anyday he got treated like crap from a manager he could walk in the office, tell him/her, "***** you" and walk out.
Oh, and never bring in more artifacts from home to put on your desk that you can't fit into one box; it's my 'single box theory' - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23A judge in such a situation would ask "so when the news media reported these items as gifts and you were reaping the positive press of these being viewed as gifts given to your employees, what steps did you take to contact various news outlets to ask them to make corrections to this claim? And on what date did you reissue your own press release clarifying that these were not gifts?".
- miriv365, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24Have you ever tried to collect a small claims court settlement? Its nearly impossible.
- Hayl, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22Typical Corporate bullsh*t! Sounds like something that EDS would do.
- diggittydo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19They were laid off, not fired so, National could refuse to pay their severance if they don't return the iPods.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19If they went to court, they would have to prove that it was not a gift and since it was cited as a "gift" by the press at the time and not corrected by the company, that would be difficult. They also surely sent out emails company-wide announcing these as gifts, rewards or incentives and not "loans". Likely, someone saved these. And I'm sure the individuals that got the ipods were given some sort of letter or email commending them and extending the gift of the ipod to them.
This would be an open and shut case in favor of the employees. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20On the other hand:
"I got laid off and all I got was this... ipod... sweet!" - onestep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Now would be a great time to see how the iPod holds up to a 50 foot drop.
- tinkertoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Since when is an ipod considered a business tool? Give me a break. It's a GIFT for the BEST FISCAL YEAR. Let them keep the ipods. Cheap bastards.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16@dhughs
If they were not gifts, they should have corrected the media at the time. You and I both know they saw that the world took it as "we GAVE them the ipods" and rather than correcting it, basked in the positive light it put on their company. THAT is dishonest -- especially when you then turn around and take them from the employees when you lay them off a month later.
If these were not gifts, I'm sure the employees had to sign some sort of documentation stating that they were taking posession of said item and that they would agree to return it upon termination or at the request of management.
If that never happened, then it's their own stupid fault - not the employees. - JasonPrini, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16If they lose one sale over this is could cost them much more than the iPods.
Dumb move on their part.
I also wonder if the cost of those iPods would have paid for these 35 people's salaries? - jfox00, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16The way the "news media" described the ipods, they seemed like a gift. The way the management at NS described the ipods, they were a business device (which has preloaded information on them) that an employee may also use for personal use. Since the news media is never wrong, I'm sure the company is at fault here.
If I were running NS - after our best fiscal year ever and I had to lay off 35 people (which, in and of itself is a little odd) - they would keep their 'work' ipods.
But, you have to understand where the company is coming from too. If the company gives you a cell phone, a blackberry, a pager, or a computer - its possible you will use it for some personal use as well. That does NOT mean you can sell the thing on eBay if you really don't use it that much! Its company property. - ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15That sounds like a policy at the company I used to work for *cough* Getronics *cough*.
They give you a "bonus" if you get your MCSE then demand the "bonus" back if you don't work there for at lease a year afterwords (including them laying you off).
Companies being ***** is nothing knew but they need all the bad press and exposure as possible. - eggo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Best fiscal year ever,why are they laying people off? Still couldn't afford the big yacht, I guess.
- strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19not anymore rengeek
-- your boss
(hmm... this works a lot better on boards where you can post as an AC) - dhughes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15 No they didn't give them to every employee according to TFA apparently it was a "loan". They could pay "fair market value" for them or return them. A gift is just that, it's yours to keep, it was given to you free of charge.
I'd call them cheap bastards if that was the case which it appears to be.
- armyturtle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Haha! My company used to use EDS (national cell wireless company) and we let EDS go because of their corporate *****.
- n8r0n, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Perhaps if they did not buy everyone iPods, these people could have kept thier jobs.
- Mitchl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10What kind of jackasses run that company? The next news story will be about how they are going to ask for pay back for the first six months of the year because the employees did not complete their annual objectives.
- cheez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10if you think about, we buy a lot from ns, they are the steel conglomerate of our day
- nicklet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9That would require EDS to recognise that they had people working for them rather than a "pool of resources"
.....and yes I work for them too! - LethalAmbition, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9It's a ridiculous demand. They are rewarding their employees for the best fiscal year. The fact that they laid off employees does not change the fact that those laid off employees helped them achieve what they wanted.
They should just forget about asking for them back. No one will! - RAiNsTorm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Kind of like New Horizons. It is an IT cert/training company where as instructors you can take any cert tests for free. I had planned on working there as an instructor and when I read through the paperwork from their offer it stated that all training and certifications needs to be repayed if you EVER leave the company. One former employee I spoke with ended up owing over $8,000 and they were in the process of suing him to get the money faster.
This is precisely what is wrong with US companies and the almighty stock value and profit. Cutting corners, exploiting workers, etc all to raise the stock value so the rich can get richer. Good stuff, time for a revolution I think. - foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10If a company makes huge profits, it wants to make MORE profits. So, it lays unneccesary people off so they can make MORE money.
- Gregd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9What hasn't been brought up is this.
Company gives their employees iPods for best year ever. Makes news, but I hadn't heard about it. So therefore, generates some small positive press. Company lays employees off demanding iPods back. Generates ALL KINDS OF NEGATIVE PRESS AND I NOW HEAR ABOUT IT. Company steps up and says that employees can have the iPods afterall. Much bigger story now....Generates MUCH MORE positive press then the original, etc., etc., etc.
Spin doctors get paid big bucks to come up with this $hit. - super_spyder, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9as much as i love my ipod i think i would either mulch it, or do the black ipod mod before i give it back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3tItJKdXYs - kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9When they asked for mine back I would have said something to the effect of (Kids in The Hall
reference here):
"So sorry... slipped my mind... tell you what... you know that comic you wanted to read?
Tomorrow I'll bring that comic and the video ipod to show how sorry I am."
Then the next day... and so on and so on. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Actually, I read the stories when it first happened and most of the press cited these as gifts. I googled for any corrections by NS and found none. Their intention can be whatever they claimed it was, but in making it, there is a minimal legal standard that they'd have to present to a court.
Unless there was something signed or clearly issued when these were given to the employees, they may have a difficult time. Just because it's a company doesn't make it any different than if you gave someone a gift, then broke up with them six months later and took them to court suddenly claiming it wasn't a gift, but a loan.
And the reason they should have put out some corrections to the press citing it as NOT being a gift (or simply posted a press release at the time on their site restating it properly) is the same reason a company has to be vigil in the press and court to prevent things such as their trademark and copyrights from being violated. If you don't take the basic steps up front, you have less of a foot to stand on later on. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8And when your company issued you a laptop and cell phone, was it announced all over the press and heralded by columnists and reporters as a "gift"?
You have blinders on not to see "Company issues items to employees... allows press to report on it as a GIFT... sucks up positive press... then demands item returned". Even if they were not given as items, it is dishonest to allow people to believe they were in the public light.
Also, my company gives out a couple dozen ipods every month AS GIFTS to employees. So there's as much precedent for it being a gift based on personal anecdotes as not a gift. - Sk3pt1k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@spacemanspork . . . You are mistaken about what they can do. They could sue in small claims court (they'd probably lose), but they couldn't get legal fees because you can't use a lawyer in small claims. Further they'd end up paying some employee for the time to go down to the court and represent the company for each case which would cost more than the Ipod. So they're losers even if they won.
- Grig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I work in a place where I had to sign a form before they would give me a free pen with the corp logo on it. Junky plastic pen too, not a nice exective-type pen.
- laserdisc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7$2.5 Million dollars is a drop in the bucket to the CEO of National Semiconductor. In any case I don't see the problem of letting the laid off employees keep the bloody iPods. It's bad enough they laid them off during what seems to be a very successful quarter for them. Why spend time, effort and money to recall the iPods that with their combined value couldn't get you a Kia automobile. When I was laid off once from a tech firm they let me keep the laptop (minus the hard drive) which I thought was nice and didn't leave with such bad feelings.
Capitalism isn't to blame - it's these corporate execs who no longer have pride and are only looking to make a quick buck. Digg.com should add a new section that exposes these top execs of corporations to embarrass the hell out of them. -
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