What is Digg?168 Comments
- inactive, on 11/02/2007, -2/+174"visiting BitTorrent or any other site" - I often visit the bit torrent
- dcd722, on 11/02/2007, -5/+143They won't find this story very Comcastic.
- insider07, on 11/02/2007, -2/+135Some interesting info....
Brian Becker - Brian.Becker@cable.comcast.com
Gene Bridge - Gene.Bridges@cable.comcast.com
Michael Groman - Michael.Groman@cable.comcast.com
Entire Customer Support Staff - WHT-Tier1CallCenter@cable.comcast.com
Feel free to ask why this is happening. Or just give them a call.
410-427-9600 - realwx, on 11/02/2007, -6/+104I wonder when Comcast will admit that they ARE throttling BitTorrent. I wish every ISP would learn the words "net neutrality".
- stringerbell, on 10/28/2007, -2/+89Everything in that script is true. Just like when you are listening to the President, every word may be technically true - but it is also designed to manipulate the listener into believing the exact opposite of the truth! Let's look...
"Comcast does not block access to any applications, including BitTorrent"
Technically true. They aren't blocking your access to the program - they are deceitfully terminating that program's connection to it's destination.
"we don't monitor specific customer activities on the Internet or track individual online behavior"
Again, true. They aren't monitoring your activities or tracking you - they are impersonating you to make the computer you are connecting to sever the connection.
All technically true - not honest, but true... - mad05963, on 11/02/2007, -0/+86This is called spin control.
It says: "We don't monitor specific customer activities on the Internet or track individual online behavior, such as which websites they visit. Therefore, we do not know whether any individual user is visiting BitTorrent..." All of that is true.
BUT here are the key words: "Specific" and "Individual"
What this says is that: THEY ARE monitoring customer activity and online behavior, but not by looking at each individual users, but could be doing it by bandwidth, traffic, network speed, packet transmission, or other variables that may tell its computers a torrent is going through.
This is spin, and not very good spin at that. - nreynolds, on 11/02/2007, -2/+57"thanx"? really?
- dyvbond, on 11/02/2007, -2/+50Me too! I found out about it through the Google.
- tuxidomasx, on 11/02/2007, -1/+45plus... bittorrent is a protocol people use, not a "site" that they 'visit"
seems to me like they're playing with semantics to dodge the question. - PaulPinfield, on 11/02/2007, -0/+32Well done. Shall we all email them all and report their replies back here?
- alk509, on 10/28/2007, -1/+31"'My Bittorent stream got terminated while I was using Comcast' is not evidence that Comcast is involved."
That's a huge mischaracterization of what the AP test consisted of. The way the test was run, and because of how BitTorrent works, the AP actually did prove beyond any doubt that Comcast was spoofing its users' BitTorrent traffic. Perhaps you should go back and re-read the article. - cranium, on 10/28/2007, -0/+27People are merely trying to use the bandwidth they are paying for. If Comcast is selling more bandwidth to its customers than it can actually provide, that's fraud.
- cyssero, on 04/18/2009, -0/+25Sounds like they are using fine wording to get around the issue. They don't throttle BitTorrent access, but they throttle it's usage. What I mean to say is they wont stop you downloading a .torrent or using any BitTorrent tracker site, but they will throttle the ***** out of your connection. The question should be plain and simple - do you throttle the BitTorrent protocol, yes or no?
- vermin, on 10/28/2007, -0/+23Uhh no they know exactly what they're being accused of, they're just denying something else that's similar so it sounds like they're denying what they're actually accused of.
Basically this memo just proves they're throttling BT traffic. - asaone, on 10/28/2007, -2/+21it's simple they lie alot. That's what happens when you turn into a piece of ***** company. Comcast=***** as in I am going to take a Comcast or I feel like Comcast. Shame on them.
- masterc, on 11/02/2007, -1/+20Very professional, isn't it.
- issachar, on 11/02/2007, -0/+18They're actually digging their hole deeper. They could just say "Yes we are throttling it, and we do it because it's good for MOST of our customers". And since most of their customers don't use torrents, I'd guess Comcast would be just fine. But no one likes liars.
- pbaehr, on 10/28/2007, -0/+17One alarming thing about the e-mail is that a Manager at Comcast sent out a memo referring to Bit-Torrent as "a website" and then later as "a program." It's a protocol. Too much power in the hands of people who don't actually understand what's going on.
- bjornski, on 10/28/2007, -0/+17They're not blocking "ports commonly used for bittorrent". You can randomize torrent traffic to any port. It doesn't matter.
They're scanning the packet headers. You can DOWNLOAD from other seeds, but if someone attempts to connect to one of YOUR seeds, it's analyzed, found out as in incoming BT packet, and an RST packet is sent along with it, closing down your seed connection.
They block a few ports, but it's NOT how they're crippling BT. - Netrilix, on 11/02/2007, -2/+18Yes, because internal memos need to be professional. You should see some of the internal memos that go through companies I have worked for.
- williamdyer, on 10/28/2007, -1/+17You are being too generous. Comcast is lying, intentionally. Their management should be made to feel the hate, directly. They deserve to lose their network and have it parceled out to small ISPs that are not lying criminals.
- RCourtney, on 10/28/2007, -0/+14So in other words, ISPs over-sell their bandwidth and are allowed to advertise speeds which they will then turn around and slap you for actually utilizing. Wonder what would happen if Vonage, offering unlimited local and long distance calling, turned around and started disconnecting people who stayed on the phone for too long. And it's very similar to the stories I use to read about "All-You-Can-Eat" buffets kicking people out cause they ate too much. Don't advertise and sell what you cannot provide. And yes, the word "unlimited" was in the advertisement which got me to sign up for my AT&T (formerly SBC) DSL connection.
- williamdyer, on 10/28/2007, -1/+15Well, if you really think they are innocent, let's raise the stakes: If Comcast is ***** with ourpackets, the penalty should be that their lose their network and it is sold off to small ISPs that pledge not to filter based on application.
- nedbigbyssg, on 10/28/2007, -2/+15They are not allowed to deviate from the script. A play on words that would make it seem like they're aren't doing anything, yet doesn't really say they're not either. Makes me suspect that they're still throttling it somehow. It could be that they're implementing a generic shroud that limits the efficiency of Bit Torrent. They're not blocking any Bit Torrent applications, but their adjustments cripple the aspects that are unique to Bit Torrent. So of course they don't even know the applications you're running cause it really doesn't matter. So they're not lying, just misleading IMO.
- darkamster07, on 11/02/2007, -0/+13wow comcast, you used an "x" instead of a "ks" you are so hip and cool, and I now trust you completely in all matters
/sarcasm - nakani, on 11/02/2007, -0/+12This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification
Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
Michael.Groman@cable.comcast.com
Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 550 Mailbox unavailable or access denied -
It's the same for all of the addresses - compu73rg33k, on 10/28/2007, -0/+11And it works because the average computer user doesn't know more than the customer service. :(
- digitalarcanum, on 11/02/2007, -0/+11sent this letter to them, based on a posting I saw in a thread below and general observations:
In regards to a story about an internal memo that was leaked to the public about your bit torrent throttling practices (http://consumerist.com/consumer/leaks/comcasts-we- ... you should quit lying to your customers, either that or rewrite customer agreements and Terms of Service.
"Comcast does not block access to any applications, including BitTorrent"
Technically true. You aren't blocking your access to the program - you are deceitfully terminating that program's connection to it's destination.
"we don't monitor specific customer activities on the Internet or track individual online behavior"
Again, true. You aren't monitoring my activities or tracking me - you are impersonating me to make the computer I am connecting to sever the connection, making it even worse, you're stealing my identity. Isn't identity theft a federal crime?
All technically true - not honest, but true...
Thanks to horrible government policy, just any about any major city you go to, your cable service is one of the only choices that are available as far as broadband access goes. You have virtual monopoly and what this results to is abuse of your power. I live in the city of Detroit and you are the only choice I have in the city limits.
I want you to stop treating us bit torrent users like criminals, as though a protocol we use for file transfer services is a crime. Is using HTTP/FTP transfer protocols considered a crime? Even though like bit torrent http/ftp sites have a lot of copy written as well as legally distributable material?
If all this matter comes down to is "These accounts are using too much bandwidth" again, that is a you problem and not a me problem. You shouldn't advertise 6Mbps download speeds if you don't want your customers using the bandwidth you've given to them, not to mention, you oversell your cable service so much, no one will ever see that advertised 6Mbps they were told they could have when they sign with comcast. - dynacrylic, on 10/28/2007, -0/+10Actually, when I saw the "Thanx..." I think of Comcast trying to relate to their employees in order for their employees to actually 100% believe in the Comcast's "responsibility to provide all of our customers with a good experience online and we use the latest technologies to manage our network".
- DestroyFascism, on 10/27/2007, -0/+10Which is something corporations do so they can not disclose the truth....think, insurance....Ahh!
- dynacrylic, on 10/29/2007, -0/+9I wonder how long it will take before they changed their email addresses.
- shauncool, on 10/29/2007, -2/+11"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
- insider07, on 11/02/2007, -0/+8Brian Becker - Brian_Becker@cable.comcast.com
Gene Bridge - Gene_Bridges@cable.comcast.com
Michael Groman - Michael_Groman@cable.comcast.com
are the correct addresses. sorry
Let them know! - compu73rg33k, on 10/28/2007, -0/+8"We respect our customers' privacy and we don't monitor specific customer activities on the Internet or track individual online behavior, such as which websites they visit. Therefore, we do not know whether any individual user is visiting BitTorrent or any other site..."
I'm not exactly sure even that is true. My friend received a letter from comcast saying they noticed him downloading an episode of the show Weeds through bittorrent. They said if they catch this again it would be grounds for termination. I told him to get utorrent and turn encryption on. Problem solved, but I'm sure as hell glad I don't have comcast since they basically admitted to monitoring his internet use. Freaky. : - r2pro, on 10/28/2007, -4/+11Put your tin foil hat back on and GTFO.
- EntropyMan, on 10/28/2007, -0/+7Like what the President says? When Bush says "They're attacking our freedom." It's only literally true if "they" = the neocons, not the subject of the speech.
Similarly here, if they say they aren't monitoring your activities -- if they're using spoofing to disrupt BitTorrent sessions, the spoofer has to know (read: monitor) your IP at least, or they'll wind up disrupting someone who isn't using a Torrent client at the time.
A lie is a lie is a lie. There is no such thing as technically true, if the intent is to deceive. It didn't work for Clinton -- he was technically correct that the question asked if he "is" having an affair, not if he "ever had" -- which lead to his tortuous splitting of hairs over the definition of "is." Close, as they say, but no cigar... (yes, I know...) - darkedict, on 10/28/2007, -0/+7The Email is a lie (they're down)
- nogami, on 10/28/2007, -0/+7Sounds to me like they're trying to use language to skirt the issue:
Of course they're not blocking access to any application - the applications are stored on your own computer. The question is if they are modifying traffic to/from customers, or inserting packets with falsified data or IP addresses (ie: reset packets).
They also say they're "not tracking which sites customers visit", of course they're trying to get around the issue by saying they're not logging URLs. The real question is "are they monitoring IP traffic types/patterns/amounts from users to identify what type of data is being transferred, or what kind of applications are being used".
Honest answers to these questions would likely put the matter in a different light.
The reason they're likely threatening CSRs with termination if they answer in any other way is that they know they're in the wrong, and one CSR answering the wrong way could spell big legal trouble for them if that ever came up in court. - kurttrail, on 10/28/2007, -0/+7"We know where they [WMDs] are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
- ercocozza, on 10/28/2007, -0/+7here's an interesting read on cnet... http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9802410-7.html?ta ...
- lukifer, on 10/28/2007, -1/+7I used to work at Comcast, and their internal communication is abysmal. The person who wrote this memo is probably basing it off of years-old policy, without talking to anyone responsible for the network, and without bothering to research how BitTorrent works or what is happening. The company is divided into countless autonomous divisions which do not talk to each other, and I'm guessing that whoever is responsible for killing torrents did it purely as a bandwidth-saving measure without bothering to tell *anyone* in customer service.
- jmlambe, on 10/27/2007, -0/+6***** comcast
- MeMongo, on 11/02/2007, -5/+10Is that the Google on the internets?
- trapilales, on 11/02/2007, -0/+5you're an ass....
- inactive, on 10/27/2007, -0/+5Comcast is NOT throttling! They hired Sandvine to do it for em.
- JackDoyle, on 10/28/2007, -0/+5I guess they don't realize that bittorrent isn't a site.
Also, they can't claim that they aren't filtering, because you likely are prevented from running a web or mail server (ports 80 and 25, respectively) from home. Thus filtering traffic.
So even if they aren't blocking bittorrent, which we all know they are, the blanket statement is still false. - inactive, on 10/28/2007, -0/+5you're missing the point. You aren't sharing anything. You're just downloading/leeching off everyone else. P2P is about the community and sharing.
- kualla, on 11/02/2007, -0/+5Well I called their phone number and actually got someone on the telephone line (tier 1) to confirm with someone higher up the ladder that Comcast does indeed interfere with the Bittorrent protocol.
I think in their internal memo they released is more of a words game they are playing.
I also asked if they had any plans to stop the interference and was told no and asked if I could leave any type of customer feedback in hope of making any changes on their interference with the BT protocol and was told no :( - Caffeinate, on 10/27/2007, -0/+5The anti-piracy companies are trying very hard to destroy the torrent infrastructure, that is true, and the MPAA/RIAA have no problem doing extremely dirty tricks to screw with the internet infrastructure in general. That in no way validates what Comcast is doing; what they are doing is flat wrong and they have no business doing it. Torrents have as many legitimate uses as they do for piracy, and when they wholesale interfere with the traffic, they are inhibiting everyone.
- bambala, on 10/28/2007, -0/+5My brother blocked all the porn sites
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