What is Digg?238 Comments
- Jeffrey903, on 10/10/2007, -3/+273"Judge Cooper took issue with TorrentSpy's argument that data in RAM is not "stored." She noted RAM's function as primary storage and that the storage of data in RAM—even if not permanently archived—makes it electronically stored information governed by federal discovery rules."
So just hand over the sticks of RAM (similar to how you would hand over a harddrive if that was subpoenaed) and let the MPAA go at it. The judge must be correct that RAM is stored. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -6/+166Retards can be judges?
That is awesome. It sure beats mopping and waiting for the Special Olympics. - StatiK69, on 10/10/2007, -3/+130I heard Fry's is having a special on RAM.
But seriously... This is a shining example of why computer techs will ALWAYS have a job. - geminitojanus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+107Mmm, love the MPAA-controlled justice department.
Shame it was all for naught. The end-game of all of this is that all of the sites out there are just going to stop doing US business and force everyone to use European-hosted proxy servers or other anonymizing protocols (Tor). Congratulations MPAA, you just made it harder for yourselves. - db113456, on 10/10/2007, -1/+94I would give her the ram, neatly packed in anti static bags.
- EBFoxbat, on 10/10/2007, -3/+91Per the court order, here is my RAM log:
00100010001001001001111001001001100000000001001010001010x0100100100101010011110010101 - XIUgraag, on 10/10/2007, -0/+86You got 10bytes of RAM?
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+77But MPAA will complain that Torrentspy erased it.
- NJank, on 10/10/2007, -0/+71it's rar'd
- jjesusfreak01, on 10/10/2007, -0/+70And then the judge will read up on RAM and realize that she is, in fact, an idiot.
Do you have any idea how much space it would take to store all RAM images from servers? No company could afford it, im not even sure there is enough space in any storage solution to do it at all. - KMye, on 10/10/2007, -1/+50For those who haven't read about the case before, this decision does not ask TorrentSpy to hand over the physical ram. Instead, it forces them to log and save information (on real a real storage medium, of course) that they were not saving in the past b/c it is stored in the ram for an amount of time (no matter how brief it is). TS tried to argue against this from several angles, but the judge decided it wasn't an undue burden to force them to save the IPs of vistors.
- br0ther, on 10/10/2007, -1/+47I thought you have to read the article to be allowed to comment.
- KMye, on 10/10/2007, -0/+43That was one of the arguments that TorrentSpy tried. The judge rejected it, and ordered them specifically to turn on IP logging, and only to hand those logs over as evidence. Again, not an incompetent judge, just a biased or corrupt one.
- dinostabOMG, on 10/10/2007, -0/+42Well... let them hand over a bunch of unreadable obfuscated data dumped directly from RAM. See if that helps the MPAA.
- Dochtuir, on 10/10/2007, -0/+39Dump the ram. And send them a .torrent so they can retrieve it.
- EBFoxbat, on 10/10/2007, -5/+44RAM randomizing kernel patch from the open source community in 5... 4... 3.. 2..
Open Source Community: please feel free to use the clever name "RAMdomizer" that I thought off. No attribution needed. - KMye, on 10/10/2007, -0/+35I remember reading through some of the case documents so far a couple months ago. I don't think the judge is stupid or ignorant. The only conclusion I could reach is she was doing everything in her power to win the case for the MPAA (as other judges have done in the past). This sucks especially in this case because of the precedent it's setting.
- gravyboy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+32How does a U.S. Judge have jurisdiction over a European company? I don't understand that...
I thought it was a free world, not a U.S. hegemony... - icsbase, on 10/10/2007, -0/+31TorrentSpy servers are located in Holland. I really dont see how MPAA, the US based front can get an information from another country as TorrentSpy is NOT required to give it. They should subpoena them in Holland to get ANY kind of effect. Subpoena on them doesnt mean anything over there, only in US.
- rompom7, on 10/10/2007, -1/+32Oh, so 8 bytes of RAM?
(7z ftw) - Surkow, on 10/10/2007, -2/+33Sorry but our political leaders have no spine in the Netherlands...If the USA wants something from us it will be done. For example we send people who live in the Netherlands to the USA to be judged and imprisoned if they believe those people committed a crime in the USA. But the USA will never do the same. Our laws are probably ignored because we cannot pressure the USA.
- EBFoxbat, on 10/10/2007, -1/+31You've done neither. You've done nothing to actively destroy or alter the data. You simply powered down the server, removed the RAM and delivered it as requested. The fact that there is no data on said chips simply reinforces your prior argument that RAM is not a "primary storage" as the judge insisted.
- JoshuaH, on 10/10/2007, -0/+30"Sorry, but because you are located in the USA you cannot use the search features of the Torrentspy.com website.Torrentspy’s decision to stop accepting US visitors was NOT compelled by any Court but rather an uncertain legal climate in the US regarding user privacy and an apparent tension between US and European Union privacy laws."
Thats the message you get. - chedabob, on 10/10/2007, -0/+28Thanks Captain Obvious.
- grumpyrain, on 10/10/2007, -2/+29You must be thinking about some other website.
- dinostabOMG, on 10/10/2007, -1/+25I just moved to France this week. Can someone in the US tell me what happens if you go to the site now?
BTW, couldn't you use a proxy IP address? - phillyjo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+23Even if the MPAA is located in America, i don't want them to have any info on me. Just incase they try something over in Australia one day.
- GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -3/+25This is only mildly ridiculous. There's so much housekeeping crap that goes through RAM that they will quickly exhaust any storage they have. One point for incompetent judges.
- Philluminati, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22I agree. As a non -us resident I consider that if TorrentSpy hands over my IP to MPAA they are in breach of my privacy. We'll need to make sure that Torrent Spy filter out all non american IP's (from their RAM!) before handing them over.
- TexanPsycho, on 10/10/2007, -1/+21Face it, they're too stupid to hire smart people.
- jmnormand, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19the pirate bay should start up their own proxy service
- giid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+18Heh, ok, so store all ips coming in on eth0 to a database, nothing more, nothing less. Also make sure there are other busy network processes on the box as to make the data worthless.
- waitasec, on 10/10/2007, -2/+20Stop being idiots. The judge said nothing about dumping the entire contents of RAM to HD. "A federal judge has upheld a magistrate's decision forcing TorrentSpy to enable server logging" All that was asked was for logging to be turned on, and it was TorrentSpy's defence that it wasn't subpoenable since it was in dynamic RAM. The judge never said to dump the entire contents. What you should be paying attention to is the fact that judicial law being practiced in the US is actually being paid attention to in another country. If TorrentSpy were smart they would countersue in their on system indicating that they were being asked to violate their terms of agreement with the users and put undue whatever on their business. That way the MPAA is forced to work in a foreign legal system, or better ignores it and really loses the battle
- brstilson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+19My only hope is that in 20 years, when my generation (who knows a thing or two about computers and the internet) begins to take over governmental functions, there will be a way for us to repeal all these crazy technology laws that our parents and grandparents passed in ignorance.
- La5eR, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17This could become a very VOLATILE situation and should not be taken lightly.
- Terr01, on 10/10/2007, -2/+18THIS IS INACCURATE AND A REPEAT/UPDATE OF AN EARLIER STORY.
http://digg.com/tech_news/US_judge_rules_that_server_RAM_is_a_document
As a techie, do you hate it when Lawyers don't understand Technology? This is the reverse: Geeks who don't bother to try to understand the law.
If you read the actual court documents, the issue that it was totally unfeasible to store all RAM *was brought up* and *was understood*.
All the ruling said back then was that THEY MUST TURN ON LOGGING.
Nothing to see here, move along. These aren't the legal dumbots you're looking for, although they do exist. - chetanthaker, on 10/10/2007, -6/+21hehehe, and I thought Britney Spears had lost it :D
KICKASS @
Per the court order, here is my RAM log:
00100010001001001001111001001001100000000001001010001010x0100100100101010011110010101
dugg ! - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14 That may be true of most people but is it true of most torrent users?
- covertbadger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14Actually, the US throws its weight around considerably when it comes to extradition:
"The US government needs only to outline the alleged offence, the punishment specified by statute and provide an accurate description of the suspect sought. To extradite from the US, Britain must prove "probable cause". http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4738760.stm
US extradition treaties were analysed in some detail in the UK recently after the unjustified extradition of the 'Natwest Three', who were accused of a crime that a) was not an extradition offence, b) had not been allegedly committed on US soil, and c) had no supporting evidence. - jgzman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14I was unaware we had any.
- gDubz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13I remember a few people bitching about how TorrentSpy caved to the MPAA for blocking the US when in fact it's the best course of action to protect its US based users (and self :P). Anyone smart will just go to another torrent site or proxy in.
- ArchonSG, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14Be more afraid when the **AAs start to bribe and buy out Tech Savy law makers and decision makers.
- Zippo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12Yes yes, I'll keep all the data in my RAM. Once I get enough data, I'll shut off my computer and hand it over to you guys so you can examine the contents.
- lacronicus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12they were actively considering a private island. whats your point?
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13This isn't /.
- Error601, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14I didn't realize diggers were so computer illiterate not to be able to understand this simple concept.
- brstilson, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11The US will get the Netherlands to comply or else face trade sanctions.
It sickens me how my country has been bought-and-paid-for by greedy corporate interests. - cassarani, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11I'm sure you could use a proxy, but most people don't even know what an IP address is. This limitation is effective as far as those people are concerned.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Indeed, I absolutely don't understand how they justify giving the data from my French connection to a Dutch server to a US entity.
- Murdats, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12there are aussie versions of the **AA and they do work with their US counterparts
however our legal system isnt totally FUBAR'ed so the most they usually do is send you a letter to frighten you into using more security. -
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