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John’s Blog » Apple Software Update and Safari

john.jubjubs.net — What Apple is doing now with their Apple Software Update on Windows is wrong. It undermines the trust relationship great companies have with their customers, and that ’s bad — not just for Apple, but for the security of the whole Web. What they did yesterday was to use their updater for iTunes to also install their Safari Web browser

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  • CritterNYC, on 03/22/2008, -24/+161How low an opinion of your browser must you have if you think you need to trick people into installing it?
    • thegreatanti, on 03/22/2008, -8/+23Exactly. I guess those bastards will auto-set it to default as well to force there ***** - bad looking browser on Windows - on you. It's a outrageous act, there should be laws against this.
      • flashback99, on 03/22/2008, -18/+3Look at all these clowns UNABLE TO UNCHECK A SIMPLE TICKBOX. Why blame apple for your incompetency? Have you never updated software before?

        Safari is OPTIONAL dammit.
        • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -3/+7You have to go out of your way to NOT install it. You can't trust the updater to not throw ***** you don't want at you by default anymore. It's coming close to becoming a trojan, if you don't watch it closely.

          Apple lost a lot of trust on this move. And rightly so.
        • jakem1, on 03/22/2008, -1/+9Then why don't Apple leave the option unticked by default so Safari doesn't get accidentally installed. What they've done is underhanded.
        • flashback99, on 03/22/2008, -6/+1FFS: Bottom line, Did apple force you to install Safari? No.

          • Sidzilla, on 03/22/2008, -1/+3My God, fanboys like you are pathetic. When Apple ***** up, admit it, and your arguments will gain a great amount of credibility. Did Apple force you in to installing? No. Did they try to trick users in to installing? Yes. That sucks, it is unethical, and it is a sign that Apple is getting to be just as bad as Microsoft. I have said all along that small companies are able to be ethical. To become big companies they abandon those ethics in order to enhance the bottom line and grow. Microsoft did it, Google is doing it, and Apple is doing it. Grow up and accept that they aren't perfect.
          • flashback99, on 04/03/2008, -0/+1Oh *****, of course you must think I am an apple fanboy, in your black and white world of mac vs pc. But as it stands, nobody forced you to install safari.

            And nobody forced me to be a Linux user.
      • rpgmaker, on 03/22/2008, -4/+4"bad looking on Windows" are the key words. That applies to iTunes too.
    • clak, on 03/22/2008, -29/+24Yeah, this would almost be as bad as if a company like Microsoft made something called Windows Geniune Advantage and tried to get you to install it by telling you it was a security update for XP. I am so happy that Microsoft doesn't need to trick people like that. I get all fuzzy inside when I think about it. Microsoft is so honest.

      (Do I need a /sarcasm tag for the stupid people?)
      • Nimphious, on 03/22/2008, -2/+23"Windows Genuine Advantage"
        i.e. The "advantage" of having a genuine copy of windows.
        "Security update"
        i.e. The implication that a patch of the system that prevents the installation of non-genuine copies of the Windows operating system, is a security fix.

        I don't see any dishonesty here.

        The update for the same thing in Vista isn't even called a "security" update, it's just a normal update, and it's not an important one, only recommended. If you have your update set to the most common (although not default) setting of important updates only, and only when told, not automatic, then you'll never download this update.

        Mind you, I'm not implying that Microsoft hasn't been dishonest about things in the past, but trying to call something dishonest when it's being as honest as it can without shouting at you every detail of it's purpose directly into your eardrums, and I don't see a problem here personally.

        But hey, let's take a look at dishonesty shall we.

        Hmm, Apple has a solid update platform that is used only to update existing software. There is no notification that the software is planned or designed to be used to install new software, and the description of the update platform is to keep installed Apple products up-to-date conveniently and easily.

        Oh, wait, hold on just a moment... My updater just popped up... Safari? Checked by default? That can't be right, the only Apple product I have on my Windows machine is QuickTime. I must have installed it by mistake, because Safari is a great browser on my Mac machines, it looks and works great, and fits in with the operating system, but on my windows machine I prefer my trusty FireFox browser, it looks good, it's fast, and it fits in. Turns out I don't have Safari on this machine, so why I wonder is Apple trying to install it? Oh...

        It must be...

        Apple has made a terrible move by trying to stealthily install Safari onto the Windows platform without consideration for their users preferences. There's absolutely no reason for the user to want this to happen. If they want Safari, they can go and download it just like any other browser. This is the equivalent of Google bugging you to install the Google Toolbar, every time you view a google Ad-Sense ad, or perform a Google search, or even use Gmail or Google Maps.

        This is wrong. Apple needs to re-evaluate it's priorities to it's customers and it's target potential customers. This is not a smart move at all.
        • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -6/+3The only people complaining abut this are the pirates.
      • zongamin, on 03/22/2008, -1/+8So just because Microsoft does something bad, then Apple should to? Shut up, cretin.
      • smacksaw, on 03/22/2008, -0/+5What a fantastic, yet totally irrelevant Apple-to-oranges analogy.
      • SPThom, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2True, Microsoft is known for this behavior all the time, but I thought one of the broad appeals of Apple was that it DID NOT do things the Microsoft way. So much for that. Screw Safari.

        /Running Firefox 3.
        //On a Mac.
    • SuperWinner, on 03/22/2008, -13/+9You lost me at "apple"
      • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -1/+4I'm a Windows user, and even I had to digg you down for that.
    • wonderchemist, on 03/22/2008, -4/+12How low of an opinion do you have of windows users to think this would trick them? Every windows users (or learns fast) that they must opt-out and not in.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 03/22/2008, -3/+26This is something that AOL would do.
    • macmangb, on 03/22/2008, -20/+5Regardless of the method of the delivery, Safari is superior to IE in all respects anyway, so why the complaints?
      • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -0/+12Because a majority of Windows users DO NOT WANT IT. All they wanted was a Quicktime update, or maybe an iTunes update. Not a new browser on top of it all.

        "Regardless of the method of the delivery...." Just how dumb are you?
      • ...---..., on 03/22/2008, -0/+6Well, I'm a diehard mac user - and I use safari almost all of the time. I use Firefox for websites that don't work well with safari.

        But... this IS poor judgement. I hate bundled applications that you aren't looking for. It's a bad idea and it's absolutely un-apple-like. It's going to stick to them like stink on ***** - they need to stop it.
      • JohnFrum, on 03/22/2008, -0/+5I think you are confused.
        If that were really true why use underhanded tactics to get us to use it? Why not just run an "I'm IE, I'm safari" ad campaign?

    • orenshk, on 03/22/2008, -9/+4I seem to recall that Microsoft bundling Internet explorer into their OS caused a lot of the same chaos... just sayin'
      • eggsovereasy, on 03/22/2008, -0/+7There isn't an operating system I can think of that doesn't come with some sort of internet browser.
      • igob8a, on 03/23/2008, -0/+1That's Microsoft's browser on Microsoft's OS. Microsoft doesn't disguise its browser as an update in an attempt to fool you into installing it.
        All subsequent updates will occur because the browser is installed to begin with.
        Apple on the other hand makes it seem like an update and installs the browser that sets itself as the default.
    • earthwormzim, on 03/22/2008, -12/+5I didn't feel tricked. It said "Safari" very clearly. So, I was like, "Cool! Hopefully this will be better than Firefox when I'm on Digg!"
    • xrant, on 03/22/2008, -10/+5I am guessing you're new to internets or computers in general? Windows has been forcing IE down our throat since...oh.. i dunno.... FOREVER?! :) Apple *suggests* Safari, it doesn't say.. HEY.. WE'RE INSTALLING THIS WITHOUT ASKING YOU. Sheesh.
      • eggsovereasy, on 03/22/2008, -1/+11So Microsoft shouldn't include a web browser with Windows?

        By the same token you could say Apple has been forcing Safari down Mac users' throats.
      • SSUK, on 03/22/2008, -6/+3Well, actually it does ask you. You have a nice check box which you can untick if you don't want the software. But I doubt many people will untick it.
        • Sidzilla, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2To make this an ethical act, all Apple would have needed to do was leave the box unchecked and give the users the option of opting in to it. This is just as bad as the 'newsletters and offers from our partners' that some web sites foist off on you when you register. Opt in is ethical. Opt out is a scam.
    • jdepp, on 03/22/2008, -3/+6Suppose XCode had a "target windows" button? that would be neat. Probably the version they use at Apple does.

      How low a position in the software market do you need to hold - and how big an ego - to re-implement your entire Carbon/Cocoa GUI framework on windows rather than use their native tools, and then not release that framework to developers outside your company?
      • jakem1, on 03/22/2008, -1/+5Apart from the fact that their Windows software is generally slow and buggy, the biggest problem I have with Apple is their tendency to force their user interface down the throats of Windows users. Perhaps all that awful brushed metal and grey looks good in OSX where it's the default but it just looks horrible in Windows. Their arrogance is breathtaking and surreptitiously installing Safari takes this to new heights.
      • lieven, on 03/22/2008, -4/+2You try developing for windows and not go insane...
      • hoodedrobin, on 03/22/2008, -1/+2Speaking of which... Why the heck is xcode not included with os x. Its like a compiler not being included with a linux system it doesn't make sense. Note to apple: Just make your ***** compliant with gnu gcc and live and let live. Im sorry I find it funny that i need to register with apple dev to get a compiler for apple and its 1gb seriously you have to be kidding me. ***** apple /rant
        • Severys, on 03/22/2008, -0/+7Erm, it is. The OS X dvd has xcode on it.
        • lightningrod220, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2They just don't install it off the DVD without asking you first, since most Mac users aren't developers, and the XCode suite takes up a noticeable amount of space - and with the newest stuff they're doing, it gets even bigger.
        • diggimator, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1OS X comes with gcc, javac etc. installed by default.
      • diggimator, on 03/22/2008, -0/+3I really doubt it's as easy as selecting a "target Windows" option. I'd rather see Apple support Java 6 SDK, which is a true cross-platform solution.
    • hoodedrobin, on 03/22/2008, -6/+3What makes me go... Umm what the ***** are people who use itunes.

      Amarok for linux and winamp/foobar for windows. Whats the alternative for iSsues on mac?
      • Dennisjr13, on 04/02/2008, -0/+0Maybe someone who has received an iPod as a gift and doesn't feel like messing with installing linux on their iPod as an alternative to using iTunes.
    • andburn1, on 03/22/2008, -0/+3Yes! THis is exactly what AOL does with AIM and their browser. When, on Windows, you install AIM, you also get some random ass explorer. And you expect that kind of ***** with AOL. But Apple? That ***** sucks.
      • Sidzilla, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2I notice that any time I install a Java update I have to opt out of the Google toolbar. All the cool kids are doing it now, it's just that when Microsoft did it they called it bad. I guess Bill Gates was just ahead of his time.
    • igob8a, on 03/23/2008, -0/+1"Use of this software is subject to the original Software License Agreement(s) that accompanied the software being updated."
      WHAT ORIGINAL SOFTWARE?!
    • phoomp, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1meh ... I stopped trusting Apple updates a long time ago ... and I'm a Mac user half of the time.
  • DiggLive, on 03/22/2008, -40/+31The worst part is that Safari and all their other crapplications don't even resemble Windows apps, and they run terribly slow compared to IE 7, WMP 11, etc.
    • colincornaby, on 03/22/2008, -10/+24"...and they run terribly slow compared to IE 7, WMP 11" Yeah... that's not true... http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com ... Safari 3.1 destroys IE7 in terms of speed. Look, I use IE7 on Windows because I hate how Safari looks like a Mac app in Windows (and I'm a Mac user), but please, don't try to claim IE7 is fast. It's a bloated slow piece of garbage that's hardly standards compliant.
      • colincornaby, on 03/22/2008, -5/+5Sorry, let's try that link again... http://tinyurl.com/3xm8ew
      • DiggLive, on 03/22/2008, -11/+6I wasn't talking about HTML rendering or anything, just UI interface. When comparing IE 7 or WMP 11 to Safari or iTunes, it "feels" slower.
        • clak, on 03/22/2008, -10/+5What a compelling argument! I'll never use Safari again.
          • fkr3, on 03/22/2008, -0/+11iTunes is worse... I usually have to minimise/maximise it before the window actually appears properly, mostly when it starts up it's "there" but it's black.
          • sadilak, on 03/22/2008, -6/+3The only people who use safari are Apple Fanboys, who probably use Windows OS most of the time, but like to bitch about it because steve jobs asked them to. Safari is a crappy browser which does not offer the same kind of support as Firefox or Opera or even IE for that matter.
      • GliTCH82, on 03/22/2008, -1/+2http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inlin ...
    • SuperWinner, on 03/22/2008, -14/+9apple is dead to me now
      • sadilak, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1You mean it is a Rotten Apple? or the Worms inside the apple are showing up finally?
    • djsim, on 03/22/2008, -5/+13Not like Windows apps ever resemble each other...
  • hardissababa, on 03/22/2008, -25/+115Shame on Apple. If Microsoft did this, the Internets would be flipping out!!!
    • thegreatanti, on 03/22/2008, -11/+34Apple is going to be the next Microsoft.
      • SuperWinner, on 03/22/2008, -4/+25have been for a long time already...
      • sadilak, on 03/22/2008, -2/+10Dude, what are you talking about. Apple has been there for the same amount of time as MS or maybe a shade older. They have always been extremely greedy. Greed is gonna make em Rotten.
      • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -5/+4You mean they're going to let their OS be installed on damn near any hardware configuration you can put together?

        They tried that once, and were KILLED in the marketplace. So they went back to locking it to their hardware.
    • deadbaby, on 03/22/2008, -21/+15Microsoft does do this. Office 2008 for the Mac includes MSN Messenger by default. Do I want it? No. I uncheck it in the installer. Proven solved.
      • kelson, on 03/22/2008, -2/+41There's a difference between an *installer* offering additional apps by default and an *updater* doing the same. The simplest path of action with an updater should leave you with a new version of the software you already had, not with additional software you weren't expecting.

        IMO, all Apple needs to do is:
        (1) identify the new-to-you apps as being new apps, not updates, and
        (2) leave them unchecked by default.

        So if you have iTunes but not Safari, you'll have to explicitly opt into Safari in order to get it.

        As it is, I *have* Safari, and keep having to explicitly opt out of iTunes!
        • omaryak, on 03/22/2008, -11/+1It's not an "Updater." It's "Software Update," the key difference being that it checks for new software as well. It says so in my dialog box when I open the program, at least in OS X.
          • smacksaw, on 03/22/2008, -1/+6Oh for *****'s sake. That is such a shallow justification. It's like when Microsoft calls a bug a "feature"...give me a break.

            You're twisting the words. The average person thinks it updates their existing software. What you're talking about would be software INSTALLER. I don't go find a random person on the street and go "hey, give me an update on your life" because I DON'T KNOW ***** ABOUT THEM. I don't know them. They can't "update" me because I'm not out of date on what is happening with them.

            Jesus H Christ you'll say anything to protect your Apple boner. Fanboys.
      • sadilak, on 03/22/2008, -1/+10Office 2008 is not an update . It is a software DVD or a download. MS will not stuff Messenger down your throat if you have not installed it
    • clak, on 03/22/2008, -25/+5You stupid asshole. Microsoft DOES do this. Why does Windows Live Messenger installer offer to install Windows Live Writer, Windows Live Photo Gallery, or the Windows Live Kitchen Sink? You can't even uninstall Internet Explorer from XP without screwing up the frameworks. At least you can delete Safari in OS X.
      • estvir, on 03/22/2008, -3/+18Yes, but what you're referring to is the Live install suite and it's a freaking install app, not an updating one.
      • jakem1, on 03/22/2008, -1/+6Once again clak demonstrates how ignorant he is. What a rude, tedious little man you are.
    • usingpond, on 03/22/2008, -23/+3Ummm does INTERNET ***** EXPLORER ring a ***** bell you asshat?!
      • wtfunkymonkey, on 03/22/2008, -2/+15There's a big difference between a browser being including with an OS by default and a browser being pushed by way of an unrelated software update. They're just not the same thing - you're embarrassing yourself even if you don't have the good sense to realize it.
    • darkphan, on 03/22/2008, -20/+8Microsoft has done this for years with virtually every MS app requiring you to install Internet Explorer
    • eviljim, on 03/22/2008, -7/+5They already did.
    • srg13, on 03/22/2008, -9/+4Your comment is retarded - for one thing, Microsoft has a history of doing things like this, and secondly, the web is flipping out...
    • ibeetle, on 03/22/2008, -1/+9The internets are flipping out. Even many pro Apple blogs and message boards are chastising Apple for this.
    • JonLatane, on 03/22/2008, -3/+1Um... Microsoft installs their browser without any user choice when you install their operating system. I'm not a Windows user, but from the looks of this, Apple is offering to install Safari alongside the latest version of iTunes. And you can uncheck the box. I don't even see what the problem is in the first place. Even the dumbest user can say "What's this Safari thing? I don't want that." And uncheck the box. It also says "New Software is Available from Apple" and not "Updates to Current Software." I really just don't get what the big deal is.
      • Sidzilla, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2First off, the arrogance of considering people who aren't computer gurus 'ignorant' is astounding. Computer use is, for some people, a part of their job at most and not part of their lifestyle or something they enjoy. My boss was an engineer at Motorola working on the stinger missile system. Then he founded his own company and it is doing quite well. He flies his own jets and helicopters as a hobby. I have to help him print out email when he gets one he wants to keep. Some of the smartest, most successful people on the planet don't use computers regularly. While our skill set is valuable, it does not make us better or smarter than anyone else. Second, if you ever want to cross the line from newsletter to spam, just have it opt out instead of opt in. This action puts Apple at the same ethical level as the spammers we all hate. Have a nice day.
  • thegreatanti, on 03/22/2008, -22/+3We should act properly: boycot all ipods from now on.
  • akinder, on 03/22/2008, -24/+9haha you'll never see this on the frontpage, Steven Job's personal Digg army won't allow it.
    • clak, on 03/22/2008, -12/+5Uh, Steve Jobs probably has never heard of Digg. And even if he did, do you really think he cares what a bunch of 12 year olds think of him?
      • joshuabowers, on 03/22/2008, -1/+3Two points: my profile lists my current age; your's does not. Who's more likely to be 12 years old, here?
    • eggsovereasy, on 03/22/2008, -0/+10I guess you're wrong.
    • jaxcs, on 03/22/2008, -0/+3It's on the front page.
    • ...---..., on 03/22/2008, -0/+2Aside from you being wrong - mac users (like myself) don't support this move. What's wrong is just plain wrong.
  • mmeiser, on 03/22/2008, -16/+88"Shame on Apple. If Microsoft did this, the Internets would be flipping out!!!"

    If microsoft did this they'd get their slapped with an anti-trust suit before it even finished downloading.
    • clak, on 03/22/2008, -19/+10Yeah, at least Microsoft allows you to delete Internet Explorer from Windows. Wait a second, no they don't.
      • wtfunkymonkey, on 03/22/2008, -0/+7Who cares if you can't delete it? It's a pretty simple process to push it to the back-burner.
        Besides that, I usually find a need for IE at least twice a year anyway.
        • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -1/+1I use it because Windows Update is built right into it.

          And to download Firefox.

          Well, and because it's also seamless when I work with my MSN messenger (daily) for my Hotmail stuff.
      • cubed2d, on 03/22/2008, -0/+8why would you want to uninstall it? windows uses Internet explorer as a component in many other apps. writing some software and want inbuilt HTML rendering? (for example, quite a lot of auto update programs for games use HTML to show the change log) you could implement your own HTML renderer, that would take ages, you could integrate an open source renderer but that's overkill and potentially very difficult, or you could just include a simple com component and ask windows to draw the page for you. if Internet explorer was there, this could not happen. there's no grantee that there is another browser on the system to render HTML, and no grantee that it implements the same interface to allow windows to request it to render HTML in a separate application easily.
      • jakem1, on 03/22/2008, -0/+4This has nothing to do with IE as many people before have said. The only IE analogy you could draw from this would be if IE was secretly packaged in an update to Office on your Mac. Now clak this may be hard for you but imagine how you'd feel if that happened - not too happy I expect.
      • daizaru, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1It would probably be similar to trying to delete Firefox from Ubuntu... a lot of other programs rely on firefox integration to work properly in their OS. It's a moot complaint that grows tiresome. It's not a large app, just delete the shortcuts and it's out of sight out of mind.
    • addiktion, on 03/22/2008, -10/+2I'm not trying to bring racism in this at all because I'm not racist but this reminds me of how if a black person says the "jigga" -j + n word its alright but if the white person says it he's racist.
    • carnag3aus, on 03/22/2008, -1/+9Reply button, use it?
    • diggimator, on 03/22/2008, -0/+3They wouldn't be slapped with antitrust because they wouldn't be leveraging monopoly. In this case, it's one company installing stuff on another company's OS. Microsoft will be back with more. The company was found guilty in a court of law, but their obligations under the settlement expired last year.
  • mmeiser, on 03/22/2008, -26/+101"Apple is going to be the next Microsoft."

    Nope.

    Apple is the new Microsoft.
    • borez, on 03/22/2008, -6/+23I hate to say it as I've been a Mac devotee since OS7, but...I think you may be right.

      What a shame
    • spaceman84, on 03/22/2008, -3/+30Ha! They'll never be that successful.
    • Gudeldar, on 03/22/2008, -8/+10Apple would have to have a successful operating system to be the new Microsoft (no 1 or 2 % is not successful)
      • AzureRise, on 03/22/2008, -5/+31 or 2%? That can't be right, Linux has a larger user base than that. I think I would've heard if Linux's user base surpassed OS X's.
        • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -0/+5Apple's userbase is less than 5% worldwide.
          Linux has between 1% and 2%
        • SSUK, on 03/22/2008, -0/+5According to the Apple hype machine, back in the 90's they hit that magical 5% market share. However, probably haven't moved since.
          Linux is only 1 or 2% because of the servers that use it. Don't be misguided into thinking that 1% of computer users use Linux at home, as much as we'd all love to think of it that way, it's just not.
    • kije, on 03/22/2008, -6/+3Apple will have to suck a lot harder to be the new Microsoft.
    • daizaru, on 03/22/2008, -0/+4Apple has always been similar to Microsoft in this way I find, they just weren't big enough for people to care.
    • thailand1972, on 03/22/2008, -0/+5"Apple is the new Microsoft."

      Or in other words, Apple is the old Apple.
    • Pyromite78, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Applesoft?
    • phoomp, on 03/25/2008, -0/+2Please ... Microsoft is nowhere near as monopolistic as Apple. Apple just gets off easy because it only has a monopoly over a small marketshare.
  • clak, on 03/22/2008, -35/+20All you guys saying, "If Microsoft did this, people would be going crazy." You ignorant f*cktards! Microsoft DOES do this. Why does Windows Live Messenger installer offer to install Windows Live Writer, Windows Live Photo Gallery, or the Windows Live Kitchen Sink? You can't even uninstall Internet Explorer from XP without screwing up the frameworks. At least you can delete Safari in OS X.
    • estvir, on 03/22/2008, -4/+31Your comment is as wrong and as stupid as the last time you posted it.
    • tuh2, on 03/22/2008, -4/+8First off when you install windows live messenger it gives you the option to install the extras or not. So check before you start rambling about stuff. If windows allowed you to uninstall internet explorer then somebody who didnt know what they were doing would uninstall it and then they wouldnt have access to the internet. Your average joe isnt gona have more then one web browser. Please next time spend a few more minuets writing a reply and dont just ramble.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 03/22/2008, -2/+9Wow that guy is really dumb.
    • DiggLive, on 03/22/2008, -2/+6I laugh at your ***** stupidity. Microsoft doesn't all of a sudden offer Photo Gallery or Toolbar just because they think people need it. They only offer upgrades to software already installed.
    • twiztidsinz, on 03/22/2008, -2/+9Why does Windows Live Messenger installer offer to install Windows Live Writer, Windows Live Photo Gallery, or the Windows Live Kitchen Sink?
      True... but NONE are selected by default and NONE as an 'update' or 'upgrade'
      • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -3/+3They key word here is "OFFER", not FORCE!
        • twiztidsinz, on 03/22/2008, -1/+2GOOD JOB AT DECIPHERING MY CRYPTIC WRITINGS!
  • eldridgea, on 03/22/2008, -14/+1System 7 actually.
  • jer2eydevil88, on 03/22/2008, -20/+10Apple did this to claim market share... its not the right way to do it but Digg has WAAAYYYY too many articles about this.
    • wtfunkymonkey, on 03/22/2008, -2/+5What? Haven't you noticed? Twice is the new once here on digg.
  • Auzy, on 03/22/2008, -5/+34Thats true, I installed my airport Extreme software, and now it wants itunes, quicktime and safari installed too (which I dont want).

    I agree with this
  • HiroOfShadows, on 03/22/2008, -21/+13I honestly don't see the big deal. It's always done this with iTunes as well. (Gotta have QuickTime, but I don't want iTunes) And besides, nearly everything you download comes packaged with other crap you don't want. Adobe packed a trial of Photoshop with the new Adobe Reader, Firefox sometimes comes with Google Toolbar, Windows Live Messenger tries to trick you into installing every Windows Live app available, etc etc. So honestly, is this new at all? Seriously guys, who cares?
    • DiggLive, on 03/22/2008, -1/+10It's not about bundling applications during an install. It's about pushing NEW software with update programs when iTunes is installed.
    • sadilak, on 03/22/2008, -4/+3They are all Application installs, not a software update. There is a big difference in that
    • wtfunkymonkey, on 03/22/2008, -0/+7Why the hell is it so many people don't notice the difference between adding software with a program during installation versus adding software during an update? It's not exactly subtle.
      I'd expect to see additional programs being offered from time to time when I install, which is fine since I'm already double checking the components and extras anyway.
      • sadilak, on 03/22/2008, -4/+4The people who dont notice the difference between an update and a Fresh Install are Apple Fanboys.
    • quinlan, on 03/22/2008, -1/+6I was kinda ***** to get this little message. i don't want to install safari and i don't want apple to push their ***** on me with their annoying reminder to download this and that update.
    • muniak, on 03/22/2008, -1/+3I think you should have rtfa.
  • codyman, on 03/22/2008, -6/+11reminds me of aim triton + "aol explorer" ... everytime I see someone using aol explorer, I turn to my coworkers and report an ID 10 T alert...
  • antechinus, on 03/22/2008, -17/+12It is typical poor quality Apple software anyway (slow, brain dead UI) just delete it.
    • usingpond, on 03/22/2008, -9/+6You're right, MS definitely has Apple beat in the UI department, no debate about that! Idiot.
      • sadilak, on 03/22/2008, -3/+7Yes you fool. MS has beat Apple in the UI department , else why would 90% of the people install Windows.
        • usingpond, on 03/22/2008, -4/+5I know, most people are always installing Windows themselves.
          • sadilak, on 03/22/2008, -3/+6It does not matter. If you dont want something, you will not buy it. Unless you want to tell that everybody who bought windows is a dumbass. And yes, apple software for Windows is very shoddy. For a company that relies on C programmers, it seems that they cannot code a better itunes using MFC or VC++ 6.0 or VC++.NET . ITunes for windows is terrible and quicktime is pure garbage.
          • sadilak, on 03/22/2008, -2/+6As if most of the people who have Apple's Mac OS installed it themselves. You are talking *****. I am wasting my time replying to a dumb one trick pony like you. Have a nice day
      • antechinus, on 03/22/2008, -2/+4I am an idiot because my thoughts are different from yours? You must be smart then. For your information, I used to be an Apple software developer. Have loads of experience with Apple and MS development. Apple software sucks bye bye.
    • PHiZ187, on 03/22/2008, -2/+7Apple really does get too much credit for UI design. iPhone, no copy and paste, are you ***** kidding me? iCal, it takes you five ***** versions to get the dock icon to update dynamically with they day? Poor.
      • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -1/+4Yeah, but look at those shiny icons! Clearly, a superior UI!
    • must1s, on 03/23/2008, -0/+0Who's copying who?
      http://digg.com/apple/Apple_designs_look_like_rewo ...
  • IllBeBack, on 03/22/2008, -15/+7Yeah I was kind of put off when I saw this "update" pop up yesterday as well. I'm pretty disappointed with the way Apple chose to try to sneak this onto my computer. At least I was able to decline the installation. With Microsoft there probably wouldn't have been a choice.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -1/+9Stop spouting *****.
      MS always gives you a choice, even the Windows Update service lets you choose which individual updates (even the critical ones) are installed! Hell, you can even tell specific updates to ***** off and NOT be offered in the future. I'd LOVE to see apple treat their stupid 'ooooh shiny thing' customers with that sort of respect!
      • hoodedrobin, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1I really like my apple (hackintosh) but for ***** that takes a little bit of thought compiling ***** from source um coding. Anything thats not the whole its easy use it this way. Apple fails. I like windows it has its downfalls too. The system that I see taking a bigger share is linux and before you say its ***** just chill for a second try ubuntu its easy if you have a spare machine just try it. Now everything normally works out of the box does everything xp does and everything os x does. At the same time its FREE. No spending and extra grand to get osx no viruses like windows. Its my favorite system the only thing I dont like about it is people ***** on it ever 3 seconds saying its crap.
  • addiktion, on 03/22/2008, -7/+7Very poor practice. I'd have to agree with everyone who says this is bad practice. Coming from a networking standpoint you typically roll out hot fixes, critical updates, service packs, etc. This does not fall in the lines of installing a new Safari browser. The coincidence is I actually installed Safari before I ran into this update screen a day or 2 ago.
  • twiztidsinz, on 03/22/2008, -9/+32WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW???
    • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -1/+5Off playing Crysis or something.
    • Pyromite78, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1It's Monday so he's probably helping guild mates run Karazhan.
  • TremorX, on 03/22/2008, -33/+23Unchecking a box is soooooooo harrrrrrrrrrd
    • blastcow, on 03/22/2008, -9/+9Well, Captain Cynical, its annoying that if you trust updates (like most people do with Firefox) and aren't paying attention to the updates of your highly trusted programms - you could accidentally install an unwanted program. And, of course, Safari will make itself your default Browser. I have Quicktime and don't have iTunes - but every time Quicktime tries to update - I have to deselect iTunes. I've accidently installed iTunes a couple times over the last couple years. And it takes over my mp3s - and I don't like it.
      • TremorX, on 03/22/2008, -9/+1you suck at computers
      • zongamin, on 03/22/2008, -3/+3Never download an update without checking what it is first. This is why so many Windows machines get filled with crap - because idiots like you will install anything without thinking.
        It doesn't make itself default either.
        • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -1/+2Er, yes it does!! Typical Apple just taking over with ***** all warning, just like iTunes and Quicktime do.
          Face it, apple software on the windows platform totally sucks!
      • philhatesyou, on 03/22/2008, -1/+5What kind of ***** retard installs an update without knowing what it is?
        • Sidzilla, on 03/22/2008, -0/+199% of the thinking planet, asshole. Most people don't live at their computer. They have lives, hobbies, women... stuff that we at Digg only dream of. Being good at a computer gets you a job. Knowing why you need a computer makes you the boss. Not giving a ***** about computers makes you the CEO.
          • philhatesyou, on 03/23/2008, -0/+1You don't need to live at your computer. It takes 2 minutes to review a list of updates, so long as you've got half a working brain. If you're too dumb to read the list of updates, then who gives a ***** what the ***** happens to your computer.

            If being a ***** retard is what it takes to be CEO, then it's no wonder this world is so filled with stupidity.
      • omaryak, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1"And, of course, Safari will make itself your default Browser"
        Not. Until. You tell it to.
    • eggsovereasy, on 03/22/2008, -1/+13Since clicking a box is so easy, perhaps the install Safari option should have been opt-in?
    • SSUK, on 03/22/2008, -1/+7Going to Apple.com and downloading Safari Windows isn't hard either.
  • usingpond, on 03/22/2008, -13/+8Though this is fodder for anti-Apple nerds, I do agree that they've started walking down a dark path. Hopefully they will correct it.
  • blastcow, on 03/22/2008, -4/+35Apple has already been doing this with Quicktime and iTunes. I don't have an iPod and I won't use iTunes. But every time there's an update for Quicktime...it tries to install iTunes in this same manner. I have to unclick the iTunes so as to not install an unwanted music management program.

    Now, I suppose, every time there is a Quicktime update - I'm going to have to deselect both iTunes AND Safari.

    Which is really irritating.
    • SSUK, on 03/22/2008, -1/+10Lucky. Mine comes up as "Quicktime + iTunes", one check box. Have to install BOTH or none at all.
      • hoodedrobin, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2Theres gotta be a way to get it without one or the other. There used to be. :(
        • trident523, on 03/22/2008, -1/+1You can. Go to the normal download, but check the second option. Uncheck the rest of the e-ail sign ups, don't fill in an e-mail, and get quicktime sans iTunes.
    • carnag3aus, on 03/22/2008, -5/+2Those 2 clicks... I tell ya.
    • diggimator, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2It would be annoying if one had to say no to Safari each time the updater popped up, as opposed to just being able to say no once and be done with it.
    • omaryak, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2Does right-clicking and choosing "Ignore selected update" work across sessions?
  • omaryak, on 03/22/2008, -9/+7You wanna know what's bad for the security of the whole Web? Turning software update apps into opt-in adware because people aren't reading dialog boxes before clicking on them. "Safari ... Install 2 Items" ... not that hard to figure out. This is how malware will continue to spread. People should be glad to learn the lesson from something benign like a browser.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -0/+12Nobody is claiming that people shouldn't have to read whats gonna get installed.
      What the issue is here is that Safari in most cases IS NOT AN UPDATE!! Its a full blown app.
      • omaryak, on 03/22/2008, -1/+1More reading: "Checking for new software ... New software is available from Apple"

        People who have used QuickTime without iTunes would be able to tell you "update" can mean new sofware. (People who read could tell you that, too.)
    • SSUK, on 03/22/2008, -0/+9A normal user at a computer, who has say, installed iTunes and Quicktime to their PC because they have an iPod. Will look at the box, probably not even know what the ***** Safari is. You have to realise that a normal user needs their hand held all the way through, even what I would call 'basic' operations such as installing an application. And if they're not completely informed that X application is a new piece of software or even some kind of message INDICATING that it's going to install a new piece of software, then it's *****. Sure, you can have a box saying "Install 2 items" but that's hardly a warning.
      • jakem1, on 03/22/2008, -0/+5That's an excellent point.
      • omaryak, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1If Safari stole defalt settings from an IE, then a warning would be in order. Otherwise it's just, what, 30 MB of hard drive space? And a shortcut on the desktop. I can only imagine some careless user out there who doesn't know what the Internet is outside "the blue E," finding the shiny Safari icon on their desktop and getting a free education.
    • igob8a, on 03/23/2008, -0/+1"Use of this software is subject to the original Software License Agreement(s) that accompanied the software being updated."
      WHAT ORIGINAL SOFWARE?!
  • GarrettB, on 03/22/2008, -17/+3Does it not say: "New Software is Available from Apple."?
    If anything, they are updating the browser (thank you god), IE 7 is a piece of *****. If only they made it default would I understand any problems.
    • natenovs, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1then why don't they push out Bonjour, or some other apple software for windows? they did this to generate false market share and it's *****.
    • ahac, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1>>IE 7 is a piece of *****
      So if Safari on Windows.
  • macmangb, on 03/22/2008, -23/+4Apple has always been the target of criticism of no merit. How insecure must Windows users must be that they will submit articles like this all the time?
    • blastcow, on 03/22/2008, -2/+11Really? Thats why Mac using Engadget, Crunch gear, and the like, Bloggers are always trashing Vista? This is the only Apple critical Digg I've seen in a while here. DA
      • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -2/+9Hes just a bit ***** thjat MS has sold over 120m copies of Vista in the same timeframe that barely 500,000 macs with OSX have been shifted.
        • macmangb, on 03/22/2008, -2/+0They only sell that much because manufacturers are forced to bundle the OS with the beige boxes they sell.
          • jakem1, on 03/22/2008, -0/+3Did it ever occur to you that a lot of people bought their PCs BECAUSE they came with Vista installed?
  • mariusaz, on 03/22/2008, -23/+6All you have to do is uncheck the box. Is that so damn hard? I actually like the option of installing it from software update.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -1/+5Nobody is claiming that people shouldn't have to read whats gonna get installed.

      What the issue is here is that Safari in most cases IS NOT AN UPDATE!! Its a full blown app. And including it as an 'apple update' is misleading and wrong. If your browser is so crap you have to trick people into installing it, then you really need to go and make it a ***** TON better.
  • earthwormzim, on 03/22/2008, -21/+6Oh, BOO-HOO! Here's a novel idea: click CANCEL!!!!
  • PHiZ187, on 03/22/2008, -13/+25***** iTunes, it's media management capabilities and interface suck.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -2/+12I've only just started using WMP for music managing and syncing to my creative zen, and it sure beats the hell out of iTunes.
      • davidepp, on 03/22/2008, -5/+3I know its a matter of preference but really? I find WMP to the be most complicated and unintuitive media player out there... and this is coming from a windows user.
    • SSUK, on 03/22/2008, -1/+9iriver plus 3 is my personal choice, but WMP is also good. iTunes is bulky on Windows platforms.
      • igob8a, on 03/23/2008, -0/+1I love the iriver app. Very simple to use and extremely fast. iTunes runs slow as hell even on a high end machine. Apple needs to learn to write software that doesn't suck.
    • jrignaci, on 03/22/2008, -0/+8Agreed; a lot of my friends like using iTunes, but I've always found it hella slow for such an allegedly smooth and intuitive music player. I like WMP's file ordering system and service organization; all it needed was an iPod plugin, and I've never gone back to iTunes since then.
  • buddhistMonkey, on 03/22/2008, -14/+7I guess I just don't relate to all of this wailing and gnashing of teeth, when all you have to do is dismiss the dialog box if you don't want Apple's free software. It's not malware, it's not "sneaking" onto anyone's computer, and Apple announced their plans to offer Safari through Software Update a year ago, so it's not a surreptitious maneuver, either. Come down off the ledge, put down Yorick's skull, and can the drama.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -1/+4What the issue is here is that Safari in most cases IS NOT AN UPDATE!! Its a full blown app. And including it as an 'apple update' is misleading and wrong. If your browser is so crap you have to trick people into installing it, then you really need to go and make it a ***** TON better.
      • buddhistMonkey, on 03/22/2008, -1/+1That's stupid. Software Update is simply a mechanism for downloading software. Nobody's "tricking" you into anything, unless you're a real freakin' idiot. Hmm... come to think it, I'm sorry you got tricked into downloading Safari.
        • natenovs, on 03/22/2008, -1/+1but an update that pops up on it's own to tell you about new software that you dont want is not just bordering on adware, it is adware! i've uninstalled the apple software. this is a ***** move.
          • buddhistMonkey, on 03/23/2008, -0/+1Safari is a great browser, it's free, and Apple makes it dead simple to both install it or ignore it if you choose. If you are this offended by an offer of free, quality software, then I'm glad you've decided to uninstall your Apple products. It sounds like having you as a customer is more hassle than it's worth.
  • Bitgod, on 03/22/2008, -20/+4Oh geeze, get a grip you crybabies. So wait, this program called APPLE SOFTWARE UPDATE, not ITUNES SOFTWARE UPDATE, offered some new Windows software from APPLE? WHAT?! OMG, it's making me click on the button and download it! Why, the next thing you'll be telling me is that it's going to offer me Quicktime updates too!

    I guess the only difference between updating software on a Mac and in Windows is that on the Mac it's going to ask you for your password, giving you enough time for those little brain cells to start thinking "Do I really want to do this?". Oh wait, doesn't Vista some how save you from clicking before you think too?

    Tell ya what, go uninstall the software update app, and don't worry your pretty heads. You should have been smart enough to not install it in the first place. But then I'm sure you install yahoo and google toolbars every time you download some new app.
    • homesqua, on 03/22/2008, -0/+4your comment lost it's dignity after "cyberbabies".
    • jrignaci, on 03/22/2008, -0/+3"go uninstall the software update app"...since when should users be forced to uninstall an update app just so that they can avoid a company attempting to offer you an application that you don't need? I only know of desperate companies, such as Toshiba and its "update client" for their PCs, that employ such tactics. I thought Apple was better than this.
  • Vektuz, on 03/22/2008, -4/+10Wow, I'm glad I uninstalled itunes a while ago.
    Now I use a third party podcast app on a rockbox-firmware'd music player. Better than anything apple can "offer" me.
  • kmotiv1, on 03/22/2008, -5/+18That is pretty shady Apple. Shame on you.
  • artfuldodga, on 03/22/2008, -4/+10This move by Apple by allowing Safari to be installed by default via their Update Service like that is just wrong, careless and dangerous for the end user, even Microsoft has recently shown us new applications via their Windows Live Installer (which is optional to install in the first place) but none of those applications are selected to install or update by default if not already present on your Windows OS.

    Apple, get your act together.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -4/+2They are used to treating their customers like sheep. When was the last time you ever heard of apple doing something good for their client base when they could make money instead?
      • diggimator, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2Universal Binary and Apple TV firmware update. Of course, there are more than two instances. It's kind of strange to see complaints about companies wanting to make money.
    • omaryak, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2At least Apple's updates are in plain sight. With Microsoft I always had to click "View Details..."
    • igob8a, on 03/23/2008, -1/+1"Use of this software is subject to the original Software License Agreement(s) that accompanied the software being updated."
      WHAT ORIGINAL SOFTWARE?!
  • Vohu, on 03/22/2008, -14/+15How hard would it have been to just uncheck the Safari install? I'm sorry, but I really don't see the problem here.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -3/+4Nobody is claiming that people shouldn't have to read whats gonna get installed and untick what they don't want

      What the issue is here is that Safari in most cases IS NOT AN UPDATE!! Its a full blown app. And including it as an 'apple update' is misleading and wrong. If your browser is so crap you have to trick people into installing it, then you really need to go and make it a ***** TON better.
      • aldaden, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1I already have some programs installed that I have to untick during install - I love CCleaner but it tries to give me a ridiculous toolbar.
        This means that although I install CCleaner, I DON'T trust them during the install and have to read each install dialogue very carefully.

        If Apple want to be the kind of company I don't trust to do what's best for me at install well then I guess that's there decision and up to them to decide if it's a problem that I've started to feel like that about them
  • TheTSArt, on 03/22/2008, -6/+10When I get an update alert on my Mac I always go through and examine what is going to be updated and often times I will uncheck a number of them that I don't need or want. I would think Windows users would be just as smart to do the same thing, so I don't see the problem. Uncheck it if you don't want it.

    What I do think is wrong is Microsoft's AutoUpdater that starts up every time I boot up my Mac and takes over, demanding I update Office, even though I have it set for manual updating only.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -1/+5So, now you see what it feels like to have apple do this to PC users then??
      Talk about your comment cancelling itself out!!
    • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -1/+6"Hey, I see you have MS Office on your Mac'

      Blinky box: MS software updates! Click me to install!
      Mac user: Ok, 'click'.
      Blanky Box: There weren't any Office updates, but I just KNEW you'd be interested in the new IE for Mac, and the new Media Player too! I installed them for you, because you didn't tell me not to. Thanks for using our updater!
      Mac User: "If I wanted this *****, I'd have selected 'yes, I want it'. I shouldn't have to do this! ***** MICROSOFT!"

      You guys are so funny.
  • TomPhoolery, on 03/22/2008, -17/+1It was obviously a mistake. Let it go.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -3/+5Not a mistake, a game. And the game is called "Lets see what we can get away with"!
  • Trollmaster, on 03/22/2008, -8/+12***** THE RIAA!
  • blastcow, on 03/22/2008, -5/+12There are very few programs that people feel safe with. One of them is Firefox. Firefox is a big hit with Senior Citizens! They recommend it to each other. We trust Firefox.
    Most people trust Apple, as well! And I'm talking PC users too!

    When Firefox updates itself (which is very easy and well trusted) it tries to install Thunderbird or any of the other Mozilla products. It updates. If my Grandma trusts Firefox and, not fully understanding computers, allows the install - she doesn't end up with extra programs. And knowing old people (and most of us on Digg are probably our Family computer experts) we won't get any paranoid calls: "Whats this Safari program? I think its a virus."

    Thus: PEOPLE WON'T TRUST APPLE ANYMORE.
    • blastcow, on 03/22/2008, -4/+6sorry - Fire fox DOES NOT try to install SAFARI
      • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -4/+1You completely misread the comment.
        • SSUK, on 03/22/2008, -1/+4It was the same person, he was correcting himself. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to say people misread comments.
        • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -1/+2Wait.... He misread whose comment? The one he made?
    • thegreatanti, on 03/22/2008, -0/+5"When Firefox updates itself (which is very easy and well trusted) it tries to install Thunderbird or any of the other Mozilla products."
      No it does not. I don't know how you get this information, but you clearly have some issues.
  • beatoven, on 03/22/2008, -11/+0It's in Apple Software Update coz moving from IE7 to Safari is really an update lolz.
    If you use iTunes and an iPod or iPhone, you're already turning to the fruity side. There's no harm in fooling you to trying yet another apple. Apples are good for health.
  • Neil, on 03/22/2008, -9/+1While it isn't the best thing a company can do, Apple could have done much worse. It's not like they made Safari the default browser, they didn't hide everyone's Firefox and [the un-aware's] IE shortcuts.
    Apple had bundled iTunes with the QuickTime download for years now, and until recently, made you hunt down the QuickTime standalone installer. Look at MS, they gave you MSN messenger whether you wanted it or not.
    • banmaster, on 03/22/2008, -0/+5Um, NO they didn't!
      Look at a fresh Vista install and you WILL NOT find MSN (or rather Windows Live Messenger) installed.
      There is a startmenu item that lets you quickly and easily download it, but it DOES NOT come with the OS!
  • Maevirko69, on 03/22/2008, -8/+4hay guyz this is worse than rape. its infrinjing on my rights. i have free speech and this is unixcusibal cuz of the 1st ammendment and apple wants 2 replace it with stuff liek that. ron paul.
  • mvent2, on 03/22/2008, -2/+14I don't see why people are trying to defend this. Anything offered by any software updater should just be *updates* to existing software on my computer, regardless of whether or not there is a checkbox; anything else is just a trojan horse hoping that I'd be naive enough to trust their updater. Remember Genuine Advantage notifications on Windows?

    This is low; no matter if there is a checkbox or not, it shouldn't be done in the first place. Remember WWDC 07 when Jobs was actually bragging how they were going to bundle Safari with iTunes?
    • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -2/+3I'm just wondering what the NEXT application is they're going to stick in their iconized Apple store.....sorry, I mean "software updater".

      They're not about to stop at Safari.
    • thailand1972, on 03/22/2008, -0/+4I agree, and I'm surprised people haven't picked up on Google always trying to install the Google Toolbar when you use any of their other products (e.g. Google Earth) which has nothing to do with Google Toolbar.
  • Kanaka, on 03/22/2008, -12/+1I personally don't see the big deal, just uncheck and by the way Microsoft does do this...theirs is even worse. Its called WGA
    • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -2/+6WGA is NOT the same type of thing, and you know it. Quit being dishonest about it. I don't blame them for trying to do SOMETHING to keep a legal user-base for their software.

      The only people who bitch about WGA are people with pirated copies. "Wah! They broke my install again, those *****!".
      • Kanaka, on 03/22/2008, -3/+1No...in the real world (not your fantasy legit-user base land) WGA doesn't work perfectly. Legit people have issues as well with some even being labelled as ilegit when they're actually legit. Also WGA is CONTINUALLY pushed to my windows update even though i already have it installed AND its verified my system once. Im not being dishonest about anything.
        • Kanaka, on 03/22/2008, -1/+1My point is welcome to the real world where corporations seek to make money even if it means going out of the straight and narrow to do
        • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1Well, there's a new hack out for it within days of it being "updated", so they have to update it again with the new "hack-proof" info. What should they do? Just shrug and say "oh well, we updated it 2 years ago"?
      • technoredneck, on 03/22/2008, -1/+2I actually cracked Vista on my Windows partition, because WGA was whining despite being a legit copy. Cracking it was easier than calling Microsoft.
    • technoredneck, on 03/22/2008, -1/+2"Microsoft does [insert something here] so that makes it all ~OK~ for Apple!!!11!1!1!!!!!!111oneoneone"

      No, it doesn't. Just because Microsoft does something ***** up doesn't make it "acceptable" for Apple to do ***** up ***** so long as it's not as ***** up as Microsoft's *****.
  • willi, on 03/22/2008, -9/+3I can understand why people are reacting the way they do. But the updater's name is Apple Software Updater, and Safari is an Apple software. When I update Windows, there are a lot of other software there on Windows Update as well.
    • bacio, on 03/22/2008, -1/+5the difference is that windows update just updates software that you already have on your computer while apple is using itunes to ADD software to your computer
      • willi, on 03/22/2008, -2/+1No, in Windows Update you can choose to install other stuff as well. Have you used Windows Update?
  • theboozer, on 03/22/2008, -9/+4Can't we all just get along?
  • A11YND, on 03/22/2008, -12/+5You know you could just un-check the box right?
    Its not that hard..
  • chriskuta, on 03/22/2008, -1/+11updates are for losers, Mosiac is just fine.
  • TexasCanuck, on 03/22/2008, -12/+5Sorry guys, Buried for inaccuracy.

    You have the freaking OPTION to install Safari. It's a checkbox that's set by default. If you don't want to install Safari, just uncheck the box. How difficult can that be ?

    I don't understand why everyone is up-in-arms over this. Microsoft's transgressions with Windows Update don't even come close to Apple pushing out a web browser as an optional update.

    Lets get some perspective people.
    • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -2/+7No, you have an OPTION to NOT install Safari. If you just "trust Apple" to update software you already have, and click "ok, update", you get the extra ***** if you wanted it or not. Making it install by default is in really bad form.

      Fine, let them introduce new software into their "software updater". But DO NOT check ANYTHING besides previously installed software in those checkboxes. That way, if I see something unchecked, I can say "Hmm, I'll try that", instead of having it install "by TRUST" (which was broken), ans say "WTF is this *****? I didn't want this!".

      People blindly "trust" Apple. But things like this are changing that, really really quickly. ALL of their "software updates" have to be considered suspect from now on, because we can't trust that they're not tossing more ***** that I didn't ask for on my machine.

      Examine the Apple software updater VERY CLOSELY from now on. You can't "trust" it anymore.
    • tuh2, on 03/22/2008, -0/+2Wow again its still the fact of them doing it. Updating means installing a new version of software already on your computer. They were trying to install software that wasnt on the computer.
  • PsiliPharm, on 03/22/2008, -8/+0In my opinion, this is a smart move for Apple, as most windows users do not pay much attention to what they are installing, especially when it comes to updates. Mac users had to endure the crappiest version of Internet Explorer that never got updated for years. To be honest, I wish Firefox was a requirement on ALL computers. Safari & Opera being welcomed alternatives. Anything to get people to stop using that Non-Standards compliant bloat-ware known as IE. I just hope with IE8, Microsoft takes lessons from other browsers and quit forcing developers to create hacks for IE just to display properly. It's crazy that there are website designers who have never opened another browser in their life, to find out that the websites they develop only display properly in IE, so I think if this helps to fix some of the problems that have plagued the web all this time, then great! Apple's integrity suffers a little as a result of this stunt, but all in all it is a smart move. Safari needs more of a market share to be able to compete, so passing it along with other products is not a bad idea, it will help them more than it hurts.
  • Skyview, on 03/22/2008, -9/+1What are you guys actually crying about ? This situation is quite NORMAL when you consider what type of business Apple is conducting. If you don't like the way it is then don't buy the stuff. iPOD's are more or less forced to use iTunes so whatever you're thinking, you are at mercy of Apple iTunes and you can only HOPE that they will be nice to you.

    Seeing it's a business they are not in it to be nice to you but to make money.
    Stop complaining and at least be happy that for now you have an option to actually NOT install it.
    • SSUK, on 03/22/2008, -1/+2It shouldn't be normal business practices. Microsoft shouldn't do it, Apple shouldn't do it. No one should force any software on us. Just because we miss a check box does not somehow mean we were at fault and as punishment, need to have a 30mb file install onto our PC which we'll never really use.
    • thegreatanti, on 03/22/2008, -1/+1Skyview: you are one ignorant ass.
  • cfuse, on 03/22/2008, -11/+9Then don't use iTunes - it's a piece of crap, bloated and Apple's idea of a UI. It's the new RealPlayer.

    Quicktime Alternative for movs, any client for podcasts, and duh, Firefox for web.
  • jdepp, on 03/22/2008, -2/+7the most annoying thing is all the crappy autoupdater/helper applications that run in the background at log-in and eat up resources / slow the start-up. You get one for each company. Adobe, Realplayer, Apple, even the fricking ISP all have "helper" apps that start without you asking. I use sysinternals autoruns to get rid of them.
    • bjornski, on 03/22/2008, -1/+5I just uncheck them in "msconfig" to prevent them from starting. But normally, when I have to do that to keep a program from running, I uninstall it fully and use an alternative.

      If unchecking "run at startup" doesn't stop it from loading at startup, I consider it malware, and remove it entirely.
    • MattBD, on 03/22/2008, -1/+1Hate to bang the Linux drum excessively, but one of the best things about it is that you don't get these. Everything's managed from one package manager, and you can just run an update to grab the most recent version from the repositories. It's a lot easier than everything having its own "helper" app to check for a new version.
      If Windows had a package manager similar to apt-get, that would make keeping everything up to date so much easier.
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