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Is it illegal to make my own ringtones?

engadget.com — This week's announcement of Apple's pay-and-pay-again iPhone / iTunes ringtone maker (followed up by statements made by Apple VP Phil Schiller) has had a lot of people asking us the following question: Is it illegal to make my own ringtones?

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  • CDoug03, on 10/10/2007, -6/+54Ring Ring Ring Banana Phone!
    • heliox, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8I've got this feeling
      so appealing
      for us to get together and sing - SING!
      • Fraff5, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5It grows in bunches, I've got my hunches,
        It's the best! Beats the rest!
        Cellular, Modular, Interactivodular!
    • tpink, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14That comment's going to cost you 99 cents. Please make your check payable to Raffi.
      • jollyjeffery, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Dude I had that tone about two years ago on my Nokia.
        and I made it
  • yomamaisfat, on 10/10/2007, -5/+83Irrelevant question: "Is it illegal? Yes. I'm doing it anyway."
    • tempusrob, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19Nonsense. Even if ringtones *did* count as a derivative work, if you're not distributing it then there's no problem.
      • TimmyGUNZ, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12ASCAP and BMI could try and argue that your ringtone playing constitutes a public performance requiring a license if they really wanted to be bastards. Luckily the RIAA did something good for once (albeit for it's own benefit mostly), but getting the copyright heads to agree that it's not a derivative work. It's a slippery slope here and Apple wants to stay in the good graces of the labels, regardless if you can legally do it now or not.
  • swrostmore, on 10/10/2007, -2/+136it is illegal to do anything for free when you could be paying for it. what are you, a communist?
    • RubberBinder, on 10/10/2007, -11/+3funny
    • scarper86, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12I was singing in the shower this morning and I didn't notice that my dog was listening until it was too late. I think I owe someone a performance royalty. Where do I send the check?
      • RandysWay, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0If your dog lives with you, then where to send the check should be pretty self explanatory..
  • rfwheeler, on 10/10/2007, -5/+37If the RIAA has a say in it, I would guess so. Then again if they had a say in everything, they would probably sue people for whistling.
    • muniak, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Actually the RIAA made sure it is legal.
    • strax, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7RTA - because of the RIAA, it IS legal to make a ringtone from songs you one, as long as you don't sell or distribute it (an unintended consequence of the RIAA winning a case to avoid paying royalties to artists for ringtones)
    • Ratteler, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The RIAA just though they had to screw the artist instead of us this time.

      They didn't want the artist having control of the music any more than they want their customers to.
  • Sp4nk, on 10/10/2007, -4/+121It should be illegal to charge $2 for a 15 second MP3.
    • kingkilr, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2That's disingenuous, I don't like being charged to use something I already own, but its only $2 if you don't own it already and you still get the full song in addition(unless of course this wasn't directed at Apple).
    • TimmyGUNZ, on 10/10/2007, -12/+2It should be illegal to charge $250,000 for a car. If you don't agree with the price, don't pay for it!
      • Glugory, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4No. Just no.
        • bingobongony, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Why not? Don't give such a lame commetn without explaining why you incorrectly disagree with an obviously factual statement.
      • ShinRaTDR, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4That only works in a free market, which you don't have because your idiots who allowed the Entertainment Industries to form a monopoly, so now the only cars available go 2 miles an hour and cost 250,000. And you can't test drive the car. And if you sit in it, you bought it.
        • TimmyGUNZ, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1what???
        • bingobongony, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Your comment made NO sense. The cell phone industry and hte ring tone industry is a freee market. And it is not a luxury. You pay what they say, or you don't get it. And if not enough people pay the asking price, the price comes down. Obviously enough people are paying.

          And you can "test drive" a song, you idot. It is called RADIO.
    • Harbinger67, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13It should be illegal to HAVE 15 second ringtones. Pick up your phone, stop waiting for all 15 seconds of "my humps" to play.
    • bingobongony, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4Why? By the exact same token, I can say it should be illegal to charge $400 for a phone. You charge what the market brears. And the market bears $2 ring tones. If it didn't, then the price would come down.
      • DebbilsAdvocate, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2While I fully believe in the free market, we're not dealing with the free market in this case. Copyright laws have ensured that. In a totally free market, you'd be able to copy the song as many times as you want and distribute to anybody. The government has already interfered in the market by creating a monopoly (copyright is a monopoly on an idea) so I'd have no problem making $2 per song illegal. Ideally, both copyright and the myriad laws piled on top of it would all be scrapped, but that's wishful thinking.
    • childermass, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Why? Just don't pay for it. Let companies charges whatever they want to. I think it's foolish, I'll never buy it, but it shouldn't be "illegal." If it's a horrible idea, eventually, much like Apple's iPod Hi-Fi, it'll go under.
    • roystgnr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3No; outrageous ringtone fees should be legal. The negative effects of greedy businessmen acquiring $2 are outweighed by the positive effects of stupid enablers losing $2.
    • grawity, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2...if you can buy a complete song for $0.99
  • AndyVenus, on 10/10/2007, -3/+33I thought of it the other way around. Why the hell is apple making me pay for a song twice? Seriously, it's got to be one of the biggest rip-off's since paying for your xbox live avatar.
    • awhiteflame, on 10/10/2007, -8/+7*Apple* isn't making you.
      • Glugory, on 10/10/2007, -8/+8Yes they are. Take the Apple ***** out of your mouth for a few seconds and smell the coffee.
        • meatmcguffin, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Don't be stupid. Apple make very little from the iTMS and probably even less from ringtones. The iTMS is designed to sell iPods, not music.

          This is all down to the record industry.
        • scronide, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Simple. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
      • heliox, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Actually, no one is making him.
      • AndyVenus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1They are if I want a ringtone and a song to listen too.
    • SomaSynth, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0It's only a rip-off if you're willing to pay for it. I suppose a congratulations is in order, you're a prime whore of capitalism.
    • chicaneuk, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I would suspect that it is in fact the record companies.. I *seriously* doubt Apple makes a single penny off Ringtone features, but it is instead a tax set by the Recording Industry.
  • T8erT0T, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Indeed. If you stumble upon an act that can satisfy a need without paying for it, please alert your government who will in turn alert the corporations on how to solve this problem. Let's all pitch in and do our part! Those stocks don't rise themselves you know = )
  • ZenMojo, on 10/10/2007, -2/+33It's technically not illegal because once you buy the song you have free use of it for non-commercial purposes. Anyone trying to FORCE you to pay for multiple versions of a song is stealing from you, plain and simple.
    • jonathan95060, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7"Anyone trying to FORCE you to pay for multiple versions of a song is stealing from you". Presumably you want to use an excerpt of the exact same version of a song, not even a different version.

      I bought some ringtones when I first got my phone but since my wife upgraded to a motorola Razr and verizon has disabled the built in capability to upload your own MP3 ringtones I have sworn never to pay for another ***** ringtone again.
      • Theoxenmooving, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Dude. Alltel firmware. Takes 5 minutes to do. First thing I did when I took my RAZR out of the box.
    • merreborn, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"Anyone trying to FORCE you to pay for multiple versions of a song is stealing from you, plain and simple."

      Hey now, it's not theft. Diggers get ***** off when people call downloading music theft -- because it's not, it's copyright infringement. Similarly, gouging for ringtones is not stealing, although it is lame and slimy.
  • AmICoolNow, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7You shouldn't have to pay anything for some 10 second clip of a song; whether or not it's illegal, do it anyway
  • zeptobyte, on 10/10/2007, -5/+15Of course it's illegal. Just because you paid to be able to listen to the song at any time you want on any device that can play it doesn't mean you're also allowed to listen to just a portion of it when your phone rings. That's ridiculous.

    And because I'm sure I'd be dugg down for this without saying otherwise, I'll make it absolutely clear that the above statement is SARCASM.

    But really, if I purchase a song that I can play on my iPhone, why should I have to pay extra to have it *automatically* play on my iPhone? That's just ridiculous. Of course, maybe it could qualify as a public performance of the song because other people hear it. In which case, I should also have to pay extra to play my music through my stereo speakers.
    • Gadren, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Sssh! Don't give them ideas!
    • TimmyGUNZ, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Music Publishers make good money off ringtones. I imagine that as the iPhone popularity grows and labels renew their agreements, they may re-negotiate this point, perhaps offering a song for 99ยข or pay $1.50 to have it ringtone eligible, or maybe some labels/publishers will allow their songs to be used as ringtones for free. Until the labels and publishers see how this does, I imagine Apple is forced to do this with their current agreements.

      If Apple didn't work with the labels with the ITMS, there's no doubt in my mind that they would allow you do use our own songs on the iPhone, but it's a conflict of interest now and this is one battle they'd rather not fight (yet).
  • tehbored, on 10/10/2007, -2/+20Since when does legality matter anyway?
  • cfd339, on 10/10/2007, -13/+4Oh for F***'s sake! It's only 10 seconds. Can't you be CREATIVE enough to make something that sounds cool to you for 10 whole seconds? Why must you be a shill for the record company advertising people by playing advertisements for music other people have to go buy so they can be cool too?

    There are SOUNDS all around you. Record them, distort them, play them backwords. Find something that makes you smile and quit being a consumer sheep.
    • IllBeBack, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5The only thing I could come up with for about 6 seconds was a nice long fart. It's my ringtone now. Happy? That microphone I used in my butthole is going straight in the trash though...
      • rooftopsuicide, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1dude, if you can have a microphone in your asshole, and still make an audible fart, you have serious goatse potential. congratulations.
      • ShinRaTDR, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I'm sure he meant a full sized mic.
  • Moriya, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand creating a ringtone is fair use, and therefore legal, as long as you have purchased the music. There are fairly flexible rules about playing music in public for non-commercial use, otherwise the RIAA would be suing ricers blasting their subs for playing music for the general public for free (actually I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet). Any argument they would have is out the window when said music performance is a 10-30 second clip of a song.
    • Moriya, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I'd like to add to my comment that creating a ringtone from an iTunes bought file clearly IS illegal under the DMCA, since you have to break the DRM on it to create the sound clip - yet another reason to buy CDs over crappy, low-bitrate, DRM'd digital music.
  • ecartman, on 10/10/2007, -10/+4Illegal yes
    immoral no
    wrong no
    do I care, guess

    cart
  • mojoel, on 10/10/2007, -1/+20Be careful. The RIAA might sue you for playing music to the pubic when your phone rings.
  • over90000, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6If all the other phone manufacturers allow me to put ringtones made from CD's I BOUGHT. Why can't apple. This sucks.
    • TimmyGUNZ, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5b/o other phone manufacturers don't run their own music stores.
      • over90000, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0What does that have to do with anything. I've already paid for the music.
        • TSSaloic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3You have to fay $1 to make the ringtone.
    • ShinRaTDR, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Actually lots of other phone manufactures do that, ESPECIALLY ones that own their own music store, like sony. I still think its ***** to pay for a ringtone, because its basically free advertising, but Apple isn't alone in the practice.
      • over90000, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1I can put a custom ringtone on my sony just fine. no hacks needed.
      • Billions, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Be honest with yourself, NO other company has an online music store as powerful as iTMS, and Apple needs to do this to stay in good graces with the music industry. I don't agree with the final decision, but I can grudgingly recognize the situation. I bet all the other stores you're thinking of are trying to figure out how to make more money from ringtones as well.
  • elmro, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2Check out myxertones.com, you can already make your own ringtones there from your own music library.
  • japc, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2No. But it is much less lucrative to Apple if do so. So, yes.
  • compgeek, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1why would it be illegal to use CD's I've ripped to MP3 (legally purchased CD's) to make a ring tone? if it was illegal I don't care it's fair use I'll do it if I want the RIAA can't do ***** cause I'm in Canada . On top of that if the song is already owned legally by me I'm allowed under fair use to do with it as I please short of selling it for profit so therefore making ringtone or in this ringtune= completely utterly legal no questions asked
  • cbrophy78, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1UH Bitpim? Open Source, supports a lot of phones (Mac, PC, Linux) - blue tooth connectivity or usb data cables - stores all of your contacts, photos, videos, ringtones, txt messages, appointments, playlists. You can crop photos from your computer for your specific screen. Videos too. The best of all, create ringtones from multiple audio formats, and easily preview audio. Cut the audio anywhere to "make" the ringtone. www.bitpim.org
  • CrimsonBlur, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Oh for the love... NO! It is not illegal to make your own ringtones, anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about, and if the RIAA says that they are just lying. Buying ringtones on iTunes is exactly the same as buying ringtones through any other service, just like Cingular, Verizon, etc. provide their own ringtone stores.

    As it is, only advanced computer users know how to make a sound clip and transfer it to their phone. Why would the RIAA allow Apple to let you use any song you have on your computer as your ringtone as easily as setting an option in iTunes when the obnoxiously priced ringtone market is so lucrative for them? I can use anything I want as a ringtone on my Samsung phone that is in MP3 format, even an entire song can be set as a ringtone. As long as you can transfer the file to the phone, you can use it as an MP3 ringtone. Some phones or providers add restrictions, which sucks.
    • TSSaloic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The RIAA says it is LEGAL to make ringtones, please read the post before commenting.
    • ecidnac, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1My husband has a Samsung phone, and yes, as long as I can get to the file, I can set any MP3 I want as a ringtone. Problem is, T-Mobile automatically drops MMF or MIDI attachments, and converts MP3 attachments to AMR (that get saved so that they cannot be set as ringers). He doesn't have web access, and the phone can't connect to a computer without some ridiculous proprietary doohickey, so I had to swap his SIM card for mine to access the web and download an MP3 containing nothing but SILENCE. That's right. All I wanted to do was make it so he could set a certain group of contacts to have a SILENT ringtone (not available as a default option). I was frustrated beyond belief. Obviously they would have preferred to have made me download and pay for Jonathan Keat's ringtone "cover" of John Cage's 4'33".
  • 3dom, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5Wow. Just wow. Did anyone see the amount of Apple *****-sucking engadget did in the linked article? That was disgusting.
  • kriminalintent, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10the only difference in illegal and legal is " il " . As in il do it anyway.
  • SwissCamel, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Probably.
  • knuckles, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Nothing in it for me but this just came out...

    http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/itoner/
  • skyfire1, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1I don't care if they make it illegal to fart to the pokemon theme song. In fact, I really don't give a ***** about what the RIAA makes illegal. The RIAA is the equavalent of 1 guy trying to hold 1,000 people hostage with a musket.
    • TSSaloic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2The RIAA agrees with you for once.
    • blackjack75, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If there was a guy with a musket, do you really think any of the 1000 would dare to move?
    • lornefs, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It's more like one guy with a pea shooter aimed at 1000 people.
      Who give a ***** about the RIAA.
      Getting nailed by them is like being struck by lightning.
      Ringtones, how are you going to get caught?
  • xSEED, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2no
  • ih8regs, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1What a cowtowing boot licking servile question.
  • legioss, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I make my ringtones for my RAZR with Motorola Phone Tools and that program itself was made from Motorola, so I assume it is legal
  • PercyKittenz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7To summarize the article, because a lot of people are missing the point: It is LEGAL for you to make ringtones out of any songs that you purchased (thanks to the RIAA's greed, believe it or not) - as long as you aren't using songs that you purchased from iTunes because the iTunes Music Store's licensing agreement forbids using _music files_ for using ringtones, which is why they are going to sell you _ringtone files_ instead. You can put any ringtone you want on your phone legally except for songs bought from iTunes, but you'll have to use third-party software to do it (like Ambrosia's iToner) solely because Apple doesn't have a reason to help users undercut their ringtone sales at the moment. Hopefully, they see the light and open it up to your own files since I think that anyone can see that importing your own music from cds or other online stores hasn't killed the iTunes Music Store yet.
  • icsbase, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I've been doing my own ringtones for years. Actually they are real songs, not just tones. All i need is a) Nokia phone b) USB cable (DKU)
    This way i wont have to pay for ***** tones. I can transfer my CD's into the cellphone memory card.
    • Billions, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Wow, teh awesome! can you post a FAQ about how to do that? I want to dooz that 2
  • acidbathfan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2I can hear the sounds of a dead horse that has not only been beaten, but feed to death.
  • crackintosh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3is it illegal to change the "a" at the end of my iTunes file into a "r"? curiously when I do it becomes a ringer on my phone. Hmmmmmm.
  • joel8x, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1What about making your own ringtone with sounds and music you created? I really should not have to hack a phone to put my own creations on it.
  • eyefork, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Paying another dollar for a clip of a song when you've already paid for the entire thing...riiight...
  • dasunst3r, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I'm doing it anyway -- it's called "fair use." When I purchase a license to a piece of media, I am entitled to enjoy it on whatever device I own, even if it means transcoding it to a different medium. With ringtones, all I need is 20 seconds. Those people who want to charge $2.99 for a 8-bit/8kHz POS can shove it.
  • KingGorilla, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1no of course not! Anyone else want me rapping for their ring tone? I'm pretty dope
  • yujie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1ummm....yeeaaa...nnnnnn.....noooo
  • bbardlbradd, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1One simple question. What aught to be the role of government?
  • RequiemStudio, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1It better be legal... it's my music... I BOUGHT it. I can make copies, ringtones, etc.. As long as I don't resell it I'm not violating any copyrights. And you know it'll be half a day before someone hacks the iPhone to take user made ringtones.
  • crossmr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1if the music industry doesn't get $1 every time you think about listening to music you're stealing and you should probably go kill yourself now for putting all those people out of work you son of a bitch.
  • ecidnac, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0I'm very picky about the gadgets I buy, and any device that prevents me from using content that I already own is pretty much out of the question. Of course, without hacks, that basically counts EVERYTHING out. Right now I'm just using the Razr that was one of the free options to come with my T-Mobile plan, but I damn well made sure before I got it that there was information on the web to help me to transfer my own files and access features that T-Mobile disables. It's not the best phone money can buy, but I'm very happy with what I can do with it, for now. I'm ridiculously geeky, but I don't think I'll ever be an early adopter because of issues like this... Before I buy, I need to know that I control my technology, not the other way around. If there are workarounds, it's not an ideal situation, but it'll do (though I still feel bad using my dollars to support it). If not, no thank you. Period.
  • blackjack75, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I don't know what the situation is in the US but on most phones I see, Nokia, Motorola, Siemens, SonyEricsson you can just transfer the mp3 on your phone via bluetooth (or cable). Why the hell would anyone anywhere purchase a "ringtone" when on all modern phones you can assign your own mp3 to each caller?
  • redeye666, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Ringtones should always be free. The fact that a 30 second "preview" has the same value as the whole track is stupendously insulting, to the artist and the consumer. The fact that Apple has no ota delivery mechanism and still charges is mind bending. The older polyphonics I can kind of understand as they take work to create but truetones, hmmm...You can always use your friends Google for this anyway -
    http://www.ok-cool.com/posts/read/25-get-any-polyphonic-midi-ringtone-for-freeWorks
    for just about anything too...
  • Billions, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2God, we all KNOW it's annoying and wrong to have to pay for ringtones for the iPhone, but we can all understand that Apple has a much closer relationship with the music industry and AT&T than Nokia, Motorola, Siemens, SonyEricsson, and other companies that allow you to assign an audio file as a ring tone. And I bet those companies would do the exact same thing if they had to protect a successful online store like iTMS. That's why Apple needs to do this legally and play the 'ringtone' game. Because they are in bed with the music industry to keep the iTMS on top. Annoying us users is probably cheaper than long, drawn-out expensive lawsuits with the RIAA about publishing and fair use.

    My iPhone has been using a video game sound effect as a ring all week, courtesy of iToner. How am I supposed to find that on the iTMS, much less pay $1.98 for it? THAT is what's upsetting me; the inability to use sounds that are not songs, because the phone won't allow it. I'm hoping Apple will leave it loose and let us choose, just like with music on the iPod: buy it off the iTMS with DRM, or rip your own CDs into mp3s, the legal options that we are can choose. Of course we might also have MP3s we 'found' elsewhere, but that has always been our business, a debate between our hunter/gatherer instincts and our conscience.

    C'mon Apple. Trust us to decide. With the 'ringtone creator' in iTunes, they seem to have made it so easy to create your own ringtone from the song offerings I be a lot of people would do that anyway.
  • donkeySays, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Is it illegal to let my friend make a call using my phone?
  • Hagstrom, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0how many ringtones do you actually need?
    Junior Boys - In The Morning (So This Is Goodbye, 2006) for my alarm clock and Silverbullit - Buddy (Arclight, 2004) for phone calls. That last one isn't available from iTunes. And yeah, release the jesusPhone in Europe already!
  • CosmicJustice, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4If you paid $600 dollars for a cell phone then $2 for a ringtone is the least of your problems.
  • devilsanthem, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If a whole song is 99c then why should a 30sec clip of that song also be 99c?
  • Error601, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You can make your OWN all you want. You just have to pay the royalty if you distribute it.
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