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- Scourge, on 10/12/2007, -4/+186s Tribewanted.com a scam?
Written by Jem Matzan
Monday, 19 June 2006
I first saw Tribewanted on Digg.com, and thought it was a pretty cool idea -- in fact I was considering participating. But after spending an hour on the Tribewanted Web site, I realized that I wasn't really sure what I would be getting into, and the site seemed like it was purposefully vague in several key areas. That's when I first suspected that it might not be legitimate; after two days of research and a brief email exchange with the woman handling PR for Tribewanted, I felt that there were enough red flags to warrant an article on the matter.
The premise
To save you from having to read the marketingspeak on Tribewanted's site, here are the basics. You pay anywhere from US $220 to $660 to stay from one to three weeks on Vorovoro, a small island in Fiji (a small, very recently democratic, Pacific island country). Currently this island is mostly undeveloped and privately owned by a native Fijian family. The owner now wishes to turn his island into an eco-tourist spot, which is strongly supported by the Fijian government.
Once you purchase your place in the tribe, you will be allowed a stay on the island commensurate with the price you paid -- one, two, or three weeks over a period of one, two, or three years. Your weeks are not guaranteed, and must be reserved in advance. Once on the island, you're encouraged to "help" in some way -- what way that might be is not specified, but the Tribewanted owners are asking for people with a wide variety of special skills to join. The tribe does not form unless 5000 people sign up before September of 2006, and if that goal is not met, Tribewanted promises to give you your money back; this is the only way to get a refund from Tribewanted.
Speaking of the owners, they are Ben Keene and Mark James, two British men in their mid-20s. They formed Tribewanted, a UK-based limited company, to collect money from tribe members and manage the tribe's infrastructure.
The pre-paid tribe members congregate in an online forum on Tribewanted.com, which is supposed to be the basis for the future island community. And that's where things are as of this writing. If you've got your head on straight, you're probably at least somewhat suspicious of this ambitious business venture. In light of that sentiment, let's examine some of the reasons why Tribewanted reeks of "scam."
Red flag #1: a lack of critical details
Read over the Tribewanted Web site and see if you can determine exactly what it is, who is paying for it, who is profiting from it, what happens if the company goes bankrupt, and what happens if people with the requisite island- and community-building skills don't sign up. What happens to people who refuse to leave the island when their allotted time is up? If the Fijian government requires a five-year business plan for a commercial land lease, then why is Tribewanted only offering tribe time slots for three years?
If you think that those are good questions to ask before you shell out hundreds of non-refundable dollars to these two guys in England (plus at least several hundred more for travel expenses), then you've got your head on straight.
It looks like most of the critically important issues are to be decided when and if 5000 people pre-pay to join this Internet tribe. So you pay in advance, then someday you get to help decide how a privately owned island is developed over a three year lease to a company that you've paid to be a part of (some tribe members are concerned that the owners have too much control). Then you go and stay there (where? In a tent? In a hut? On a boat? In a hotel?) for anywhere from one to three weeks if there's room for you on the roughly 10 acres of land (according to the survey linked above; Tribewanted has claimed a larger figure for land area, however) when you're available to go. While you're there, you're expected to "help out" in some way, with services and jobs unknown. What will you have to do? What will happen if few or no skilled people sign up? There are so many unanswered questions that you'd have to set aside your internal scam-o-meter to buy into this.
Red flag #2: they're collecting a lot of money in advance
Speaking of money, look at how much they're charging: US $220 for a one year membership, which entitles you to one week on the island, and as much Internet forum drama as you can handle. That week is not, however, guaranteed -- so you could theoretically pay the fee and not be able to stay on the island. There is a two year/two week plan for $440, and a three year/three week plan for $660.
In the Tribewanted FAQ, the project leaders state that your membership does not start until September 1, 2006, and even then only if 5000 people join. Tribewanted of course promises that it will refund your membership fees in full if the tribe does not form. However, the FAQ also says that once you sign up, you can't get your money back: "Tribal members cannot cancel their membership once they have joined and there will be no refunds in any circumstances. If a tribe member decides not to take part in the online community or visit Adventure Island their membership fee will not be refunded."
These restrictions suggest that the Tribewanted organizers may be using the advance payments for their own purposes. If you pay your fees in advance, but can't get a refund for any reason, that could mean that Tribewanted is not unwilling, but unable to refund your money, potentially because it is being invested or spent elsewhere. If the tribe does not form until 5000 people join, why must you pre-pay? Every reputable online retail store does not charge your credit card until the merchandise ships or the service begins, so why would you pay so far in advance for a tribe membership that may not happen, then trust two guys on the Internet to refund your money?
If this deal goes belly-up, who will pay for the Web site design, server fees, network costs, office costs, travel expenses, and lawyer's fees that Tribewanted has no doubt accrued since its creation? Who will pay the publicist for her work? Where will this money come from? Out of the pockets of the two Tribewanted owners, who claim that they spent the last of their savings on a return flight from Fiji to the UK a few years ago, or out of the membership pre-order money? Would it surprise you to learn that Mark James and Ben Keene -- Tribewanted's owners -- can't be held personally responsible for any of Tribewanted's debts?
I am not a lawyer, but for this article I spent an afternoon reading up on British business law and how it applies to Tribewanted. That doesn't qualify me to make any definitive statements about legal liability, and the below paragraphs are only my opinions based on a novice understanding of UK business law. If you're so inclined, look up these issues for yourself.
Tribewanted Ltd. is a limited company based in the United Kingdom; this is much like a limited corporation in the US. The limited part of limited company means that the business is a separate entity from the owners, and the personal finances and possessions of the owners or shareholders of the company cannot be used as collateral for debts that the company owes. So Tribewanted Ltd., being such a company, can get itself into unfathomable debt and the only liability the owners have is equal to the value of the company shares each of them own. They could also take the membership money for themselves as salary, then when 5000 people don't sign up, declare bankruptcy for Tribewanted Ltd. and legally walk away with however much they collected in member pre-payments.
To put it in simpler terms: it looks like the Tribewanted owners can take all of the members' money, spend it or take it all for themselves (and may be doing this already), get Tribewanted into debt, go bankrupt, and not have to pay anything back to the tribe members. Similar scenarios happen all the time with startup companies and investor capital -- it's what the "dot com" bubble was all about. To the people who have millions of dollars to bet on a risky business investment, this is merely the cost of doing business and the downside to the risk. But the people who are signing up for Tribewanted are not investors; they do not get any company shares, and there is no expectation of a financial return on the money they are giving to Tribewanted Ltd.
If Tribewanted's organizers were really concerned with creating a community business in order to profitably develop an eco-friendly resort island, each tribe member would be a shareholder or an investor or in some other way an owner -- like in a traditional timeshare venture -- not a customer. Your membership fees would buy you shares in the company, making you actively responsible for its success. Why are two owners taking all of the money -- and company ownership and control -- for themselves, when clearly there was a more community-oriented way of forming this company and accomplishing its goals?
I'm not accusing Tribewanted Ltd. or any of its officers of fraud; I'm merely saying that they have created a scenario in which a scam could be easily executed while more ethical, safer ways to form the company were available to them. Well, safer for the tribe members, anyway. The manner in which the company was established is not in line with Tribewanted's community-centric philosophy.
Red flag #3: it's only for a select few (suckers?)
A questionable financial situation could easily be excused if the owners seemed like honest, trustworthy people -- or at least sound businessmen. After all, the original "confidence man" scammed his victims by asking, "Have you confidence in me to trust me with your watch until tomorrow?" Inevitably that watch was not returned. Tribewanted asks if we have confidence in the owners to trust them with our membership money until September. Will their offer of a tribe be made good if the goal is met, or will they return your money in good faith, or will you be left out to dry? Ben Keene doesn't seem to be as publicity-hungry as Mark James is, so I can't say much about his personality. James, however, reeks of "scam artist." The first example I'll give is this forum message in response to a Tribewanted skeptic:
"OK. We are looking for dreamers who believe that fantasy can be turned into reality NOT pessimists who are out to always believe the worst. Dreamers, check out www.tribewanted.com and lets work together to see dreams become reality!"
This is textbook con-man language. Scams are always marketed to dreamers and risk-takers, and if Mark James' short diatribe doesn't sound like a carnie on an infomercial, I don't know what does. All that's missing are the parts about "this exciting opportunity" which is only available "for a limited time offer," and then, "but wait -- there's more!" These three phrases are the staples of high-stakes sales pitches and fly-by-night scam operations. You have to buy now, because if you don't you'll "miss out."
It shouldn't surprise you that those phrases are not actually missing from Mark James' various other public statements; they're just not as obvious or as close together as they are in a standard carnie spiel. The "exciting opportunity" is re-labeled as the journey of a lifetime, the "limited time offer" has been morphed into limited to 5000 tribe members and must sign up before September 1, 2006, and the added value is that you're helping to save the environment. If you'd like to see Mark James do more of his carnie act, check out his Tribewanted MySpace page, which is overflowing with effusive superlatives and exclamation marks. The blog includes such marketingspeak gems as:
"We have also had comments from tribe members about the importance of recording this history-making adventure. A world-class documentary would do just that, enabling a larger audience and even future generations to watch the life-changing step that we all took to become 1 of 5000! This just gets more and more exciting, the adventure has already begun."
"We never dreamed that we would be in this exciting position, before launch, only five weeks ago. What's more exciting is that we will be taking 5000 crazy members with us on this journey of a life-time!"
"You never, ever expect to get some of the offers that have come our way. It amazes us how so many have a dream, they talk about it at the bar, they mull it over, they decide not too. But if you just take a leap and put your dream into action, you never know what is around the corner. We never know what is going to come with each e-mail and there have been incredible offers, invites and possibilities, many that we cant discuss just yet, some include exciting opportunities for our 5000 tribewanted members. We just want to encourage you all to take a leap, whatever your dream, your passion, your desire, take a leap. We are looking for 5000 people to take a leap and join tribewanted will you be one of them?"
When someone tells you that your dreams will come true if you give them some money, the needle should be buried on your internal scam-o-meter. It seems more like Mr. James is asking us all to give him some money so that his dreams of being rich and/or famous can come true. Ask yourself this question: if this is such an awesome adventure with so much excitement and opportunity, why is he trying so hard to sell it? An honest brew makes its own friends; if Tribewanted is so great, it should sell itself without all of this advertising. If this is a legitimate business, then why does he sound like a con man? Why do you have to be a "dreamer" to accept the terms of his deal, and what exactly does living on a Fijian island for a week have to do with people's dreams (other than Mark James's)? Even some of the Tribewanted members have their doubts -- or rather, their friends and family members have warned them that this sounds like a scam. But anyone on the Tribewanted forum who voices their doubt about the project -- or people peripheral to them who express doubts outside of the forum -- are immediately accused of being "negative" and written off as not being "the right type of person" for the tribe. By definition, people who avoid scams are not the "right type of person" to accept one.
Secondly, how is this a "history-making" event? Marco Polo sailing to unexplored parts of the world is a history-making adventure. The first moon landing is a history-making adventure. Flying across the Atlantic ocean for the first time is a history-making adventure. Put into the proper perspective, 5000 mostly white, middle-class Westerners paying $220 to camp out on a Fijian island for a week is neither history-making, nor particularly adventurous.
Red flag #4: bad PR
I've personally dealt with hundreds of public relations specialists in a variety of fields. I've seen the good, the bad, and the horrifically ugly -- the latter being only the rarest of cases. With few exceptions (Apple Computer, the SCO Group, Macromedia Inc.), public relations representatives are generally hungry for good press. When a journalist asks a PR representative for more information about the company they represent, and the PR person refuses to offer anything, you can bet that something is horribly wrong. Sometimes honest mistakes are made, and sometimes impending product releases or company announcements compel the PR and marketing departments to remain close-mouthed on certain issues. Sometimes they're overworked and underpaid and need follow-up calls and emails to get their attention. Even in these cases, though, they never want to leave you with a bad impression -- they tell you they can't talk about it right now, then tell you approximately when they can talk about it, apologize that they can't help you with your article, and offer to give you any assistance that you may need with other projects. You're usually asked if you'd like to be added to the press release mailing list. They never want to end the conversation on a sour note; PR exists only to present a positive company image to the rest of the world, usually via the press.
The person handling PR for Tribewanted is Imal Wagner, a one-woman PR machine who represents a few other questionable businesses. Wagner's other clients include authors that have books with the following titles: The One Minute Millionaire, Multiple Streams of Income, and Cracking The Millionaire Code. She also does PR for Alex Tew, the "million dollar homepage" guy. The only other two clients listed on her site also have high scam potential, though they could very well be legitimate -- an adoption-related site headed by a former news broadcaster; and a Christian-themed charity organization that deals in donated boats and cars.
The concept of ethics in public relations is at best a gray area, and at worst a complete joke; PR people are often called upon to lie to or mislead people. I'm not sure if this is necessarily unethical in a business of negotiable ethics, but Wagner seems to have a business partnership with at least one of her clients -- and it looks like yet another carnie act. A quote from her Web site's index page: "Imal & Mark and their team of experts will be revealing what they've done to become multimillionaires and create millionaires. Will you be one of the lucky ones who gets to attend this limited event that will teach you the SCIENCE OF SUCCESS used by these masters?" If Ms. Wagner is a multimillionaire, surely she could have afforded a more skilled Web designer than the one who made her site. And why is she still in the PR trenches instead of happily retired?
I wrote to Imal Wagner to try to get a better understanding of what Tribewanted was about. When I wrote these email messages to her, I didn't suspect any foul play at Tribewanted -- I merely wanted to get the details nailed down so that I could think about querying some travel magazines to do an article on it. It was only after her email responses and a visit to Wagner's Web site that I started to become suspicious of the entire operation. Here's the four-message exchange:
Jem Matzan: I'm interested in writing about the Adventure Island project, but I've found the tribewanted.com site to be light on information. Do you have a more in-depth press kit that I can look at? Or is there someone available for either an email or telephone interview?
Imal Wagner: Hi Jem, I am the publicist for Tribewanted. The Jem Report is not in my data base and a search on the internet lead me to http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/index.php which had a button for Software reviews, Tech book reviews, articles on technology and movie reviews. Your comment on ' light on information' is confusing. Please E-mail me a list of questions and they will answered via e-mail by Tribewanted.
Regards,
Imal Wagner
It's not often that someone in PR will question my viability as a journalist when all I'm asking for is a press kit. I was puzzled by many oddities in her reply. Why did she list off the kind of reviews I do? What's the deal with the spelling, capitalization, and punctuation errors in her message? Is she really confused by the term 'light on information,' or is this one of those PR tricks where they ignore your question and pretend like nothing is wrong? Here's what I wrote back:
JM: The Jem Report gets more than 150,000 unique visitors per month, and is generally aimed at technology news and reviews. That is probably not where I would publish a story on Tribewanted, though. I freelance for a variety of publications, and have written four books. I hope that assuages any concerns you had about my career and/or viability.
What is the Tribewanted project, exactly? Who is profiting from it? What will participants be building on the island? Where will they stay until the infrastructure is built? What security measures will be enacted to protect participants from harming one another? Before I can query serious magazines, I need to have some clear information on what's going on with Tribewanted. Do you have a press kit that clearly explains what this is, who is profiting from it, and what participants can expect? The Web site appears to be purposefully vague in these and other key areas.
IW: Hi Jem, Thank you for answering so quickly and frankly. We have given an exclusive to a major National Magazine for coverage and they will be traveling to the island with us. Their interview process has already begun and I must keep my word . Regrettably that means I must pass on an interview with you at this time.
Regards,
Imal
I don't think I said anything that would be regarded as "frank," specifically -- all I did was ask some very basic, obvious questions and make a second request for a press kit. Her refusal to send me one says that there probably aren't any pre-made press materials, and even if there are, they're probably just the same dog-and-pony show that the Tribewanted Web site offers. I wondered why she couldn't tell me which "national magazine" had the exclusive. Exclusive interviews always tweak my ethics meter in the wrong direction -- they make me think that the PR people have selected a journalist or publication that is most likely to believe their story or just print what's in the press release, and the least likely to investigate or dig deeper into the situation. Sometimes publications pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for "exclusive" interviews, but this only happens in the rarest of cases, and is again in an ethical gray area because it is essentially a business deal masquerading as legitimate journalism.
What really pushed my suspicion over the edge was the fact that she agreed to answer my questions only until she found out what they were, then said that she was unable to give me any answers. While it is possible that in the few hours between our email messages, the "exclusive" media deal was solidified, I think it is more likely that the nature of my questions -- specifically the ones about money -- scared Imal Wagner and Tribewanted. I don't need her -- or anyone else's -- permission to write about Tribewanted anyway; it's just very strange that Tribewanted's PR was so uncooperative. It makes me think that they are trying to avoid media scrutiny.
The only decent PR coming from Tribewanted Ltd. is Mark James, who prowls the Internet looking for blog posts and news stories on his business venture, and posting comments on them. I don't do comments on The Jem Report anymore -- article discussion is all in the forum now -- but I sincerely look forward to reading Mr. James' impassioned sales pitches that will no doubt punctuate this story.
Summary and alternatives
Is Tribewanted.com the work of two scam artists, or are the owners just sloppy and inexperienced in matters of salesmanship and business organization? Or is there more to this story that I didn't discover? This article is merely the result of the research I did into the details behind Tribewanted/Adventure Island. It is not meant to provide definitive answers; it exists only to raise the right questions for prospective Tribewanted customers, and to serve as a starting point for other journalists or concerned citizens to do their own research into the matter.
It's not often that something looks like a scam, sounds like a scam, and smells like a scam, and ends up being legitimate. So if you're worried that Tribewanted/Adventure Island could be a scam, but like the ideas that they present, there are myriad other, less risky vacation adventures to go on. You might call a few of your local travel agents to see if they have specific packages -- often you can get some great travel and accommodation deals. If you're looking for suggestions, here are some good ones, some of which I've done myself:
Visit Fiji by yourself. Tribewanted aside, Fiji is a great vacation spot. The preceding link details many of the things that the main Fiji islands offer to tourists. Again, a travel agent who specializes in Fiji or the Pacific islands in general might have a better or more interesting deal for you.
Go to Burning Man instead. This annual week-long festival is no doubt the inspiration for Tribewanted, except it has an established history and culture, a sensible infrastructure and organization, and instead of paying to be part of the "tribe," you pay an entrance fee to camp out there and participate in the various festivities. Your ticket pays for the creation and maintenance of Black Rock City, which is Burning Man's temporary location in Arizona. At least you know where your money is going with this event, and it's substantially cheaper to travel to it.
Buy a real timeshare. The idea of the timeshare property or "vacation club" is not new -- various hotel and entertainment companies (like Disney and Hyatt) have been offering these services for years. You buy your timeshare points, then use them each year (or sell them) for the rest of your life. It's like having access to a nice apartment or hotel in a variety of prime vacation spots for two weeks a year.
Camp out in the Dry Tortugas. These historic islands are two hours west of Key West, Florida, and are protected as a national park. This is where the real pirates of the Caribbean used to find safe harbor, and where the US Navy set up a huge brick fortress to protect southern ports from foreign invasion. You can snorkel or dive the coral reef and see all kinds of cool stuff, or tour the civil war-era military fort. You can also bring a tent and camp out in the Garden Key campground for $3 per person per night (advance reservation required).
Take a cruise. Both Royal Caribbean and Disney offer excellent cruise packages. You won't be stuck on the ship the whole time -- there are piles and piles of things you can do when the ship docks -- diving, snorkeling, hiking, and all manner of daytrip adventures in exotic Caribbean locations.
Go on a National Geographic Expedition. The National Geographic Society makes certain expeditions available to the general public -- all exciting and educational. If you prefer to plan your own adventure, NGS magazines like National Geographic Traveler and National Geographic Adventure specialize in finding and documenting interesting travel/vacation/adventure ideas.
Discuss this article on the forums. (0 posts)
Copyright 2006 Jem Matzan. - ArchieAndrews, on 10/12/2007, -2/+62Well written. I am a sucker for articles exposing scams (or suspicous of them).
- RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -1/+47Yes, it's a scam. Anyone who pays to do work under the hot tropical sun is an idiot. Let's see: no pay, no benefits, no insurance if you get sick or injured, no ownership shares in the eco-resort you're building. Illegal immigrants working construction and landscaping jobs have it much better than this.
- dilema, on 10/12/2007, -1/+45Thank you for posting the article in whole, mucho appreciated.
- D4r7h3v1l, on 10/12/2007, -3/+45You win the longest non-empty space comment award.
- nature, on 10/12/2007, -1/+39Very well written, and actually has some research done.
- comrade693, on 10/12/2007, -0/+33See the comment above yours.
- Momoru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+30I'm setting up another one, hardlaborerswanted.com, for only $500 you get the privledge of fixing my roof, mowing my lawn and joining an exciting community.
- ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -1/+32When I first saw this, I imagined 5000 people stuck on an island, then images of Lord of the Flies came into view. Other thoughts included scams like Primerica.
- fatlip, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30im setting up a similar thing for if you want to travel to the moon.. but i'm not going to release it unless 4000 people sign up and pay a few hundred dollars
so if you wanna sign up.. i accept paypal - valour, on 10/12/2007, -0/+25I wrote the article, and I'm not "jealous" of anyone's success... and even if I were, it would be impossible to be jealous of the two guys who run Tribewanted. They are not successful by any stretch of the imagination. I'm a professional writer. That's all I've ever really wanted to be.
The fact that you are attacking me rather than attacking the issue of Tribewanted's scam-like appearance is yet more evidence that it is not legitimate. - shaolinpunks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27$ 220 X 5000 people = $1,100,000
anyway if not all 5000 people sign up and the do refund your money they should have made a killing on the interest anyway - adamlazz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24I'm glad to see someone has debunked this site.. As you have said...Way too many red flags to believe something like this.
Very well doumented research and well presented information.
Congratulations to him. - Suspected, on 10/12/2007, -0/+23I also think it's a scam; however, I don't think it's a very well thought up one. While they might get enough people to come at first, I doubt they're going to be able to convinence them to actually do more than an hour of work. People might be stupid, but they're more lazy then stupid, I assure you! ;)
- ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Mcottier, Primerica is a barely legal pyramid scheme, AKA a multi-level marketing company.
It costs about less than $150 total to get a insurance agent broker license in many states. Primerica costs $199 (so where is $50 going to?). No experience required for the state exam: example: http://www.labor.state.ny.us/workforceindustrydata/olcny/ibgener.asp
The first red flag is how Primerica is so similar to Amway. There are plenty of other companies that went down like WMA, 2by2, where you hire people to become your "legs, trees, branch" etc and take a cut from their earnings. In the history of multilevel marketing companies, most people lost time, friends, and someone always takes the losing end of the stick. The best way to make money from a multilevel marketing company is by starting your own.
The second red flag that should've been raised is the catchy pitch they do, which sounds more markety than fact. The whole multilevel marketing skit where friends tell you that you must go to an interview for a great job opportunity but they can't give critical details on what the job does, is very suspicious. They hire anyone to work at the bottom of their pyramid, you're not your own boss, you're their lackey and all earnings you make are split.
Then theres: www.100insurers.com/wwwboard/messages/8092.html
Securities exchange comission on Primerica: http://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/3440269.txt
Primerica facts you may have not known about: http://primericabuster.bravepages.com/
Primerica operations are mainly just scams to make a quick buck at the expense of your friends. I wouldn't recommend it and would pull out.
TribeWanted has just some of the hallmarks of a Primerica or multilevel marketing scam. They want you to pay lots of money, join a vague interview meetings, then they'll pick you out and have you tell your friends (TribeWanted does tell you to spread the word). - bennyboy371, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Sure sounds fishy enough to me.
If they are legit, they should fire that PR woman immediately. - dwemer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19Let me affix my tinfoil hat for my reply.
Isn't it interesting how the article mentions that the same PR person who works for tribewanted also works for milliondollarhomepage, and then you come along and issue a flimsy (at best) defense of tribewanted and then use milliondollarhomepage as an example. I'm more than a little suspicious. - scriptkiddie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18seems like u are one of the scammers :)
- Petrarch1603, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Kudos for good investigative journalism
- scott1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Let (un)offically complete the red flags I just noticed somthing.:
Red flag #4 Not enough info about getting to the island
The FAQ tells you about how there are international flights going to Fiji which does make some sense. But unless there's a international flight going to "adventure island" how do you get there? It doesn't even say if there's a boat or somthing that you have that you have to go to pick you up. - GrinningFool, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"is more than obvious to any 8 year old that member's need to prepay so that the tribewanted team"
Not this eight year old. The money isn't needed to rent the island until it's time to make payment.
Option one -- a binding promiissory note from every participant that says IF AND ONLY IF 5000 members sign up, funds are payable immediately.
Even better, option two -- money could be placed in an escrow, untouchably by EITHER party until Sept 1. If the requirments have been met, it goes to the "island fund". If not it's refunded.
So simple even a nit like you can understand it. - veloscaper, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12ok, scam. No duh. Doesn't seem much of a savings anyway even IF it was legit to justify the risk.
- Klowner, on 10/12/2007, -4/+144 8 15 16 23 42..
- mcottier, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9ShrimpCrackers, I was just wondering, is Primerica really a scam? I just took a 20 hour class to become a representative!! What's funny though, the teacher of the class was a sheriff, and they did teach us everything we needed to know about life insurance. Just let me know please, thank you.
- 83457, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Primerica is kind of in a gray area IMO. It has some pyramid qualities to it. I wouldn't feel comfortable getting my family and friends involved which is of course a big part of the business. Do some research on google.
- ericeman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Wow, they call it Adventure Island? Someone above me thought of Lord of the Flies... I thought more along the lines of 'The Most Dangerous Game' where the rich man literally hunts a band of shipwrecks like animals.
All this seems so shady... why would you even attempt at shelling out the cash to these people even if there was a vague sense that it was legit? - scriptkiddie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Scammer contacts:
island@tribewanted.com
Press >> Europe & Australasia
Andy >>
Email: press@tribewanted.com
Mob: +44(0)7743057458
Press >> America & World
Imal Wagner >>
Email: imal@comcast.net
Tel: 1 301 840 5999
Cell: 1 301 325 4085
Add us and talk to us, if you are on one of the following:
MSN messenger: island@tribewanted.com
Yahoo: tribewanted
ICQ: 226-672-008
Skype: tribewanted.com
AIM: atribewanted
Check tribewanted out onmyspace:
www.myspace.com/tribewanted - bndocksnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@ panique
in public relations, an attitude like that will find the door for you. in certain circumstances, such as crisis communications, you might be forgiven for not paying more attention to bloggers, but that's about it. welcome to the new world, many people now get their information from blogs in addition to traditional media outlets. many of those people are also opinion leaders, and need to be respected as such even if they are a minority. many minorities together can easily form a majority.
snub away, just know you're wrong :) - adminmatt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@ panique,
if you actually read the article you would know jem is an actual journalist, who has written several books, and written in freelance publications, but just because its majority of blog reviews all the other accomplishments are overshadowed?
don't be an ass, its more than what you've done. - JohnP, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Ive not read it yet, but when this site first hit Digg i raised some serious questions and i was buried. It just makes no logical sense.
- ericeman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Hanso Foundation! Can't believe that slipped my mind!
- PauliShore, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yes, I was actually watching that thread, too. Just more evidence that it is indeed a scam. Someone should notify all the people who have fallen into this trap.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6How interesting that you just registered to post praise for this company.
It's almost as if you worked for them. - foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Piggy DIES! Die Piggy! Have your skull bashed in!
- buggysam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Someone started a thread in the tribewanted forums enquiring about the issues raised by this article, but it was deleted after a couple of hours.
- scriptkiddie, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10no duggmirror, no google cache and the site is down. damn it.
- davidirock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Exclusive interview? They seem exited about having multible news sites.
http://tribewanted.com/in-the-news.htm
Also in the FAQ it says that various cheifs will be there. But makes no mention of the "Cheif Cheif" who's picture is located on the Team page. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Live at 10, Rick Romero takes you to scammer's tropical paradise."
"This sounds like a huge scam.
Think about it, if this succeeds, the two founders get a functional community built and paid for by volunteers IE FREE LABOR paying the founders for the privilege of staying on the island to work, for free.
What really sucks is these volunteers have no right to be on the island once their 1 to 3 weeks is up. But the founders still benefited immensely from their labor. They reaped the reward of an island built by the labor of others...
And if it fails, the founders lose nothing because the project was funded by the volunteers that paid for the privilege of building a community for somebody else."
http://digg.com/links/A_Real-World_Island_Experiment - drunkenoaf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"but one thing that you havn't considered is the COSTS of running a business! There is website design and hosting"
Hmm... lets be generous, $1000 max per annum for hosting-- akamai give you a gigabite for about $0.17?
Website design? Some poor sod probably got paid a few thousand for that. -- Edit: Actually, they run quite a few sites-- see above. Minimal extra expense after design (which they may have done themselves), methinks.
"labour"
Hiring a crap PR firm, watching the money enter your account, some admin for the office... this could be done at home in the spare room with a $12,000 per annum admin assistant.
"lease of an island"
Are they really? Or is it approx. 10 acres. And even then you're supplying the labour. Isn't it a bit off that you're paying a company to lease land for you to go there and work as a labourer on that land, which will build a tourist resort so that the island gets more visitors, money, and spoilt.
"running costs (food)" -- Fijian food is expensive? Naaaaah.
"and boat travel"... Not much, again.
"AND insurance". Again, not that much, I suspect. From the realms of something I do have direct experience of, Architect firms that design massive buildings have to pay professional indemnity insurance-- if a $10,000,000 building collapses, they are in the poop. But the insurance is in the order of a couple of thousand a year.
And if it's a scam, are they bothered about insuring against collapse of the project? Nope.
"and legal fees!"
Drafting of a really crap contract between conumers and the firm? Negotiation of a contract between some poor Fijians and the company? I doubt many hours were spent by the law firms on that.
This seems like a small firm, with minimal costs, really.
STA travel wouldn't get involved in a scam? Well... all the Holiday Tour operators have had bad luck-- holidaymakers turning up to ***** hotels in the Med; scandals on consumer affairs programmes, etc. Travel firms can make mistakes. And STA can sell/ send brits on flights to Fiji. Kerching!
All the guy is saying is: Here are the facts about the business and the business model. I liked the idea, but there's just too much that doesn't seem right for me to be comfortable with this project.
He's the kind of guy that won't buy a lemon of a car, or a house with dry rot, as he got a survey done first. You might consider doing the same. - mustard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5So you're like, their dad, right?
This whole thing smells sour, and the last few replies here only make it worse. - omnithought, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I heard about this thing a few months ago and thought about joining, however, when I read they were asking hundreds of dollars up front and that I might not even get to use my time I said "screw it". Besides, even if it was legitimate, their logistics are sadly wanting.
Having lived in a couple of communities, I can pretty much assure you that if members are only there for a week or three, and if there are 5000 people, it's going to be nothing short of a *****. You need a much smaller group for a lot longer time to make anything effective. - mustard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4fresh registration to post poorly thought-out praise on these people. You're not helping matters here.
- Ductapemaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@shaolinpunks
The 1.1 million dollar esitmate is the minimum amout they could make. If everyone stayed for the full 3 years, then:
$660 x 5000 = $3.3 million (and 5000 suckers). if everyone does it (5000 people), they could make anywhere between $1.1 and $3.3 million...pretty good odds even if 5000 dont sign up! - scott1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Maybe some of them are digg users. This was reported on digg befrore it was discoverd to be a scam.
- Stumpfarmer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5They do say the tribe is not for everyone- just the gullible or uninformed! Now the readers of this post are assuredly neither.
- scott1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Oh yeah I'am starting a new site too called "Oillerteamwanted.com" where you pay $500* to go search and extract oil in the beautful Alaskan wildlife refuge. Work on oil feilds, explore the Alaskan wildlife, Meet and interact with other oilers. But I'am not doing unless 10,000 people sign up so sign up now and explore the wildlife refuge and learn how to build oil feilds and why gas prices are going up
*Non refundable no matter what happens. - buggysam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Its those people who I feel sorry for. They are all helping to get more customers and spread the word and are so excited by this whole adventure like kids being told they can go to Disneyland next month.
Unfortunately if this doesnt work out then it will be like telling your kids "no disneyland for you" - ShaolinTiger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Well written and good research.
Really does seem like a scam. - scott1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ Ductapemaster
@shaolinpunks
Lets get a more accurate estimate just for fun:
Lets start with the prices
"Nomands":$220
"Hunters":$440
"Warriors"$660
It doesn't take a ecconmist to know that the least expenses for the same trip no matter what is offerd that what cost the less is what people are going to buy so we can say:
"Nomands":Highest %
"Hunters":Medium%
"Warriors":Lowest%
Less make an estimate on high the % lets say:
50% are Nomands
30% are Hunters
20% are Warriors
Lets say that 5,000 do sign up and the % are what I said before. Lets put this mathmatical form:
Nomands:
2500($250)=$550,000
Hunters:
1500($440)=$660,000
Warriors:
1000($660)=$660,000
660,000(2)+$550,000=$1,870,000
But lets better repsent with possibe number of people with this equation:
f(x)=(5/10x)$220+(3/10x)440+(2/10x)660
right now the have a total of 755 members so...:
f(282370)=5/10(755)$220+(3/10(755)440+(2/10(755)660
so there making alot of money out of this so far...
Use that equation if you want to know an estimate how much money there making of this scam - scott1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yes this is very well written and very well researched.
I added valour to my friends list too. -
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