What is Digg?87 Comments
- SouthernDigger, on 10/12/2007, -10/+40just another reason to switch to Mozilla... could someone please tell me why anyone is still using IE? I'll make it easy for you... http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/
- truebullfan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+31The reason people arent using Firefox is b/c IE is blunded w/ every windows machine. There are just some people who arent as tech savy as us who dont know better.
Most people who use IE dont know what firefox is or if there even is another option - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26there's no reason at all to use IE with firefox and Opera out there.
give opera 9 beta a try i use to swear by firefox but i don't think I'm going back anytime soon
http://opera.com/download/index.dml?ver=9.0b - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19As a web developer, I can tell you that I wish IE would go down in flames. It is an abomination of a browser, and I used to be in the same boat with you against the open-source pushers, but, man, there really is no reason to use IE, besides the convenience of it being the browser already installed on most computers out there.
- ViRaZ, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Ohh I'm sure they will fix each problem within.......well ........sometime.
- speedyrev, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Safari IS way better than IE, but what browser isn't? I use Firefox and Opera.
- rolandog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Insightful comments don't exactly go with what the digg crowd wants. They want a flame war!
//Sad times for geeks... - SugarRay, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13This is surprising?
- meemordigg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Opera doesn't support Google Calendar. Got to use Firefox
- Trenton, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Internet Explorer Security Problems Multiply" -- Go figure
http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- Go there if you are viewing this page in internet explorer now.
My brother and family uses IE, and it drives me nuts. When they get viruses or spyware/adware. I laugh at them, and hook them up with a link to firefox. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7lmfao @ one issue. Go look at bugzilla retard.
- TedHarper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4People running Firefox should be aware there is a new update (to 1.5.0.3) released today to fix a security flaw.
See http://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2006/mfsa2006-30.html and specifically "This generally results in crashing the browser, but in theory references to deleted objects can be abused to run malicious code." The advice is "Temporarily disable JavaScript until you can upgrade to a fixed version." (ie to 1.5.0.3, which is already available). - FyberOptic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Pretty lame that this guy has been modded down for pointing out facts about a browser that isn't Firefox. Come on people, Firefox isn't the second coming, it's okay to admit it has problems that another browser doesn't.
- odarky, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The reason why Microsoft fixes bug in IE sloooower than FireFox is because they made a HUGH mistake of integrate IE into the Windows. Any application that need HTML rendering probably will call IE to render it. That makes it a lot more complicated to test and fix the bugs.
FireFox is a standalone application my guess it would take less time. Beside, I do not think FireFox will face internal processes established internally within Microsoft or any big organization. - teamparadox, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Im pretty sure ms is shifting focus away from IE6 and onto IE7...i mean call me crazy but that would make the most sense
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I gave him a token digg up. That said, the thing that keeps me from Opera is one of the same things that'll keep me from using IE7 - UI. I respect the technology and engineering in Opera, but I can't stand the UI. Opera may have a smaller footprint and be somewhat faster, but in the latest releases of FF, that's gotten better and I actually like the look 'n feel. And it's not like FF is bogging down my machine or anything.
- jadeshade, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@samdu
What part of the UI? Opera has skins, but I know it's nowhere near what FF has (in amount). I believe the one I use right now (breeze micro) was adopted from an FF skin. - samdu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You could use Firefox and IETab. I have a fair number of attorney clients and they require IE to access some of the state's county courthouse sites. I just installed the IETab extension on their Firefox installs and configured it to open those sites with the IE engine every time. It's a tad more work for the sys admin, but it pays dividends in time not spent cleaning up crap that IE allows to be installed on the machines and piece of mind that unless they're on those specific sites, they're not using IE at all.
- tallgreen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I work for a company that is required to use IE because of agreements with local businesses on which services to collaborate on (MLS for real estate). We are locked into it. The website does not work properly on anything but IE. It barely works on IE because of poor design anyway, so maybe that is a bad example.
- Technopundit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm betting MS is being intentionally slow in revising IE. Let Firefox bear the cost of fending off so many web attacks for a while. The cost will eat Mozilla alive.
MS will respond by releasing a completely reworked browser product, pushing it through Windows Update, and killing off the competition. - Splitt3rxx, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13Opera.com! Opera is like firefox, except it has more feaures, is more stable, and hogs less memory. nI was a ff user for 2 years I have been on opera for 2 weeks and I love it.
- NewEvolution, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've used Safari since first release, and only had minor issues on a handful of sites back in the first two years or so. Compared to the myriad exploits IE opens one to, I think that's a pretty good start for a browser. IE for Mac is utter trash. It loads and displays pages worse than any other browser I've seen installed. Firefox may beat out Safari in some of the finer points, but I've had no issues compelling me to switch.
- wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9and havving compatibilities with Active Directory is good? How??
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I agree in principle that "if you don't like it, don't use it," but you wouldn't believe the number of times I've installed Firefox on someone's machine and given them a little bit of a tutorial and the look on their face is like, "You mean, this is the Internet and it's not 'Internet Explorer?'" As much publicity as Firefox gets nowadays, it's still mostly the geeks that even know it exists. We tend to forget that we're not generally the mainstream. And nothing bad can come from educating the "normals." :)
- BigG, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Does this sort stuff really qualify as news anymore?
- compu73rg33k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4The title should read "Internet Explorer Security Problems Multiply Exponentially".
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2In my experience, Safari work quite as well as Firefox on some pages. It's still better than IE, and I wouldn't say that I'd go "screaming back" to Firefox or anything, there are just things that I like about Firefox more than Safari. To say that Firefox is better than Safari is NOT saying that Safari is bad.
- wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8IE is bad at this juncture. Not good for security.
- SoulMaster2, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9Let me summarize all the comments from this point forward:
IE bad, everything else good. We get it. - mancat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Another option is to block all sites in Internet Explorer, and allow only those which your employees need access for. Provide them with a set of links that open the URL in Internet Explorer. The rest can be done in some other browser.
This all requires you to use some security and group policies to prevent users from changing IE's permitted/denied sites list, so if your users are part of the Administrators group, it's not an option. Then again, if they're just plain Users, Internet Explorer is fairly safe to use.
I just wrote this entire post and then realized that I'm assuming you're on the IT staff. Oops. - Jack9, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3So you just buy into a DIFFERENT kind of idiocy than the average digg user. Gotcha.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2the only people that i know that have problems whit IE are the ones that look at porn, go for "FREE" software, or go for warez. seems more like a societal security security vulnerability to me. the other browsers are fine, my 7 year old son's computer doesn't even have any major problems using IE, and neither does mine....for years...
- yahoofrom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I use Opera. Opera is fast. Then there I find some sites (mostly ajax pages) that don't work with Opera. So I switch to Firefox. But then I find that Firefox is eating too much RAM. So I switch to IE. But then I find that IE is the door to all kinds of spyware. Darn. I keep switching. .
- teamparadox, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5wow down mod'd for saying MS is shifting focus away from IE6 and putting it into IE7...you FireFox fans are insane these days..
BTW I've been using Mozilla/FireFox since long before it was cool...and even before they were public release so dont give me that ms lover crap. - pedstrom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2anything about microsoft security problems get's an automatic digg!
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ziadoz
And yet, you took time out of >your< busy "life" to post a reply. Who is the bigger fool, the fool, or the one that follows the fool?
@R2D7
"Mod me down for pointing out that ie's easy to develop for. Get over yourselves little webmasterererrrrrrrrrrs fighting so hard to overcome ie's html/css problems that are all heavily documented with hacks and workarounds."
Er.... Ideally, you wouldn't NEED hacks and workarounds. I think that's what he was getting at. Yeah, you can finagle your way around all of the crap that IE presents as obsticles to we designing, but you shouldn't have to. The whole POINT of the web was that it would be platform and browser agnostic. Now you have to design two versions of a site a good amount of the time. One that works like it's supposed to and one that "works" in IE. So, yeah, it WOULD be a good thing if IE went away. Microsoft has certainly not shown any real interest in abiding by standards and that's bad for EVERYone that uses the Internet, or have you forgotten that not everyone uses Windows computers to surf the 'Net and, thus, doesn't even have access to IE if they WANTED to run it? - samdu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4The WHOLE reason Windows is so frackin' insecure is that Microsoft thought it would be a good idea to have a hook into EVERY frackin' application that allows integration into the OS in some respect. Yes, Active Directory is powerful, though not as powerful as Novell's solution, but there is absolutely NO reason to hook into it from an Internet browser. Think about it for a second - your web browser connects you to the MASSIVELY insecure WWW. If you're using it, Active Directory is the heart and soul of the security of your entire internal network. That combination is akin to putting electrical outlets in a bathtub.
- mordain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I use Firefox, and love it, but still have to use IE for Outlook Web Access & Sharepointservices, which dont display correctly, even with firefox plugin's to use the IE engine in the tab. I have to use these for work.
- speedyrev, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4[/flamesuit on] Anything on a Mac?
- mancat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2wvdavis doesn't work with computers in the real business world, I suppose.
- Jack9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1While I dont ENJOY developing for a browser that's actually FOLLOWING some kind of written standard...because it means I have to correct years of mistakes coded by people who have no concern for proper programming practices, it's still a GOOD THING (tm). I'm certainly not anti-IE, but it hasn't helped but to produce armies of hobbyists. That's a shame.
- UmberGryphon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4If the world is finding bugs in IE faster than Microsoft is fixing them, then they won't "fix it... sooner or later", now will they? Unless they do a complete rewrite, which they'll be forced to do eventually.
Firefox and Opera, on the other hand, don't seem to have problems fixing bugs as fast as they come in, which is why most sane people use them. - uhdean, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4r2d7, Active Directory for Retards, that is freaking hilarious!!!
I'd like to see some of these jokers rollout and configure Firefox on 100's or 1000's of computers. Good luck.
Don't get me wrong each browser has its pluses and minuses. Just use the browser of your choice. We don't need to hear from everyone which they use and why the others suck. Shut the hell up and surf dammit. We will never solve the "'Which browser is better" argument. Let's agree to not mention this topic again, mmmm k? - samdu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"I think firefox is well known on the internet and its unnecessary to excessively advertise it this much. Mozilla by no means supports this kind of thing... they believe in choice, not forcing the issue upon people. Generally you should advertise it to people only if they're having problems and are actively searching for an alternative or suggest it to someone you know who might be interested."
Actually, I'm pretty sure Mozilla Corp would be thrilled with this kind of free advertising. Advertising a product in no way limits choice. As far as only brining it up when to someone when they're having "problems" with IE, well, I don't know where to start with that. Suppose a friend of yours was using Widget A and wasn't having any "problems" with it. You, on the other hand have been using Widget B for a while and find it to be a superior Widget in every respect. Are you not going to tell your friend about Widget B until something goes wrong with his Widget A? Especially considering that Widget B is free. I'd hope not. I hope that you'd tell him all of the advantages of Widget B so that your friend might be happier and more satisfied. But maybe that's just me. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Firefox also released a security patch.
IE7 Beta 2 is ok, Firefox is still better with extensions.
IE7 keeps crashing when i change tabs. Anyone else has this problem? - Sockdude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why do you have to be anti-IE just because you use Firefox? Saying that one is better than the other is just showing that you want to start a flame war, and that's not cool.
- jdonner, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yes and that a very important point you make!
It's a pitty that there are so many dumb people on digg.com who can't understand this. - uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oh my sweet gentile Jesus! I think my head a splode!
Some of you guys are on the right track. Others have derailed and crashed head on into a big flaming pile of stupid.
You have to look at this from more than one "perspective", if you will. Why do we hear so much about holes and problems with IE? Well, like all software, it's got at least *some* problems. IE, compared to the other options, is riddled with many many more problems. It's not even so much that it's bad software. It's far far out of date, much like other features of windows that I have complaints about. Sure, they're on "version" 6, and have applied patch upon patch upon patch, but that can only fix a problem for so long. In my opinion, IE's major problem, is that it's about the best that 1995 had to offer. Microsoft is on the right track with IE 7 now, updating it to do things that newer browsers are doing, but if they want to regain the audience they once had, they're going to have to do much better than simply doing what the other guys are doing.
However, for the time being, the fact of the matter is, IE is not safe to use. Sure, you might use it and not have any problems...or you could catch an infection and have to reinstall your system. I just don't understand the arguments against the alternatives, when the alternatives are so much better. There is nothing to lose by switching.
As far as the complaints about Fire fox, I hear these types of things constantly, but so far, I haven't seen any proof of the complaints. Fire fox crashes a couple of times a month? And IE doesn't? By first hand experience, that's not true.
Fire fox loads slower? Sure...it's not stupidly integrated into your OPERATING SYSTEM. You know, that piece of software that makes your computer useful...
By the way, I'm not snubbing off Opera, the same arguments apply. I happen to use both FF and Opera, as well as Safari on occasion.
From a developer's standpoint. Of the three major browsers we're talking about, IE is the least standards compliant. This means that code which works fine on both FF and O, needs to be hacked by the developer, just so that it works in IE. Why isn't MS fixing this? Because they hold the largest market share, they can do whatever they want, right?
And as far as market share effecting which browsers are attacked, I'm going to have to go ahead and call shenanigans. Yes, it does have *some* effect, however, has it not occur ed to anyone that the fact that it can easily be exploited have something to do with it? I think we have a winner! Think about it...a web browser...integrated right into the OS...that will allow any site to install an ActiveX control simply by clicking "Yes" or "OK"...millions of users who don't know any better. Ah, ha! It's all coming together now. ;)
Apologies for the long windedness...guess I had a lot to say. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It's not as if IE7 is from the ground up a new codebase, it is a new project, but that doesn't mean they need to move their resources around to retract from their only platform currently available to people (as a non-beta product).
Mozilla seems to be doing fine balancing not only Firefox 1.5 (Gecko 1.8), but also Firefox 2 (Gecko 1.9), and a whole host of products outside of that realm (Mozilla Suite, Calendar, Lightning, Thunderbird, etc). Mozilla is a company not even 1/100th of the size of Microsoft.
Opera is maintaining both Opera 8, and moving forward quickly on Opera 9, again, two platforms. Opera's even smaller than Mozilla.
Argue all you like that marketshare will scale vulnerabilities found, but until you bring me some scientific evidence of that, I will not believe your anecdotes. Furthermore, if they /did/ scale, you would need to see many, many more vulnerabilities in Mozilla's and Opera's products that you simply don't see (and that are patched rather quickly when they ARE found).
So no, saying that they're focusing on IE7 is not "insightful". It is in fact, frightful to suggest that they'd take their eyes off the currently supported platform for even a second to go do something else. If they need more employees, they have more than enough resources to hire new people to work on IE7. But they should definitely, definitely maintain what they have in current circulation first and foremost. Especially with software so thorougly integrated into the Operating System as Microsoft insists that Internet Explorer be, especially with software that enables such a broad spectrum of other programs to run within it (Javascript, Java, ActiveX, Flash, etc). - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I am on the Firefox bandwagon for now. If something better comes along, I will use that. I am no fanboy.
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