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- RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -2/+43Labor market gets tight, salaries go up, more people train to become IT workers, labor pool increases, salaries go down, fewer people train to become IT workers, labor market gets tight, salaries increase, etc.
- honesttussey, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22Digg title totally misldeading. It's an article about the baby boomers getting ready to retire and reducing overall work force. Has nothing to do with IT specifically. Story buried.
In another view I think old timers retiring from the workforce is a good thing, at least for IT. Have you even TRIED to teach a 60 year old how to use a computer? My friend's 7 year old is MUCH more understanding of computers than they are. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18As per usual, the babyboomers figure out how to make themselves the most important group of people in the universe.
- Canthros, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15I will believe in an IT crunch when it happens and not before. Until such time, I'm going to assume that what's happening is some industry group kvetching that their sysadmins make too much money.
- Canthros, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Helpdesk?
Don't presume too much there. In the meantime, I'm not worried about a crunch, and, like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. The job market's certaily improved in the last five years, but I'm not convinced that there's an impending shortage of IT talent, per se. (A shortage of competent talent willing to work for crappy rates? Possibly: I was asked about a C++ contract (i.e. no benefits) job that paid $16/hr before taxes a few months back.)
I'm glad you're busy: it's a good problem to have. All the same, the plural of anecdote still isn't data, and I'm still skeptical. - mulling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Any time the industry wants more H1Bs, these articles get publihed. There is no tech crunch, nor will there be. Story buried.
- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10The problem isn't that there aren't enough people, its that every damn company wants "Qualified applicants will have every certification available, work for $16 an hour, and have 5-15 years experience". And if you don't they toss your resume in the round file cabinet.
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13As long as I don't have a job in my field, software development, I'll take pronouncements such as this with a frigging planetoid of salt. I suspect that, much like in the trucking field, companies are complaining about a "labor shortage" so they can import cheap Mexican or Indian labor, pay them a third of what an American would expect, and hold them hostage with their green cards so they can't unionize or negotiate for better pay or benefits. ***** corporate America.
- stevenb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Does anyone else believe that part of this problem is because of Colleges like Long Technical College, and HighTech Institue along with other "side of the road schools" injecting a huge influx of untalented people into this field?
I graduated with a CS degree right as the dot bomb fallout happened. But I'm still in the field. - aliengoods, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Actually, in 2003-2004 I had a hell of a time finding work (I've been programming professionaly since 1995), but right now I can't turn recruiters away fast enough. In the last 2 years, I've more than doubled my salary. But for me the key difference was being able to move across the country if an opportunity presented itself, something many aren't willing to do (my guess is they have stubborn wives/husbands who don't want to move). So right now my flexibility has become one of my greatest assets.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7How is there a shortage? Isn't India, China and Singapore full of cheap engineers?
- Dadoo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Agreed. I'll believe there's an IT labor shortage when we're all making six figures and working 40 hours a week (rather than 60-80).
- WorldGroove, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Canthros
digg-plus-one because you responded without insulting him. - cazbar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5And it's always great when they set the requirements so high that nobody can achieve them. Such as 8 years of experience with Windows 2000:
http://computerwork.com/Jobs/Detroit/1438778.cfm
Not sure what they're gonna do til 2008. - autodata, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm someone who doesn't work in a formal IT position but has a IT-heavy info science job and a substantial amount of personal and academic programming experience with shell scripting, java, perl, python and web development. I'm also in a masters CIS program at a big 10 school. I'm at the point where I need to consider finding work in either IT or some other field.
The #1 thing that has turned me off about IT is elitism. It's the only area that I feel uncomfortable asking a colleague for help or information. The #2 reason is the constant BSing. From what I can tell, for the average IT worker, they know 20% and fib the remaining 80%.
Personally, I think I'd really enjoy being in IT as a career, but the field is certainly not remotely as welcoming as other analytical fields I've looked at. - megabytehl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think you may be confusing people who do tech support with people who do IT.
- Protonz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Exactly. It makes my head explode when a corporation gives a big donation to a trade school or technical college and people praise them as a kind charitable company. Some of us know that companies need a certain percentage of unemployment that they can threaten the workers with.
- Egoist, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7If you can't get work as a software dev, you either:
A) have little to no experience in the field
b) have no talent to where others will refer you
c) can't sell yourself
d) prefer to be unemployed
I'd believe you in 2001-2, but these days, any developer worth I know worth their bits is drowning in work at the moment. - strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Because liberals find it necessary to bring their agenda everywhere, no matter how unrelated the topic is.
- andreo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I've been in IT professionally for about 12 years. Computers have been a Hobie of mine since 1982 or so. The first program that I created was on a PET computer (although professionally I'm a sys admin and not a programmer).
With that said, and knowing how IT people get treated sometimes. If I wasn't already in the field I would not want to be in IT.
Last year a guy that was working as a temp at the company I work for told me that he was planning on going back to school. He asked if he should go into IT or HVAC. I told him that I didn't know much about the HVAC field but gave him almost 30 minutes worth of advice and what I experienced in the IT field.
A lot of it came down to having tons of patience with the users. Mostly never getting a thanks for saving someones ass when they do something stupid to kill or mame their computer. Pretty much anything that you touch that has a problem in the next year is your fault because you touched it. The constant changing of managers that all have some grandiose idea to make your job more efficient but causes you to do even more work to something done. Every time there's some need to cut the budget IT gets looked at first, so there's always some outsource cloud hanging on the horizon. Lots of companies that expect you to be available 24 hours a day to handle the smallest of problems that may pop up in the middle of night, weekend or holiday. And the list goes on.
And with all the ranting above said I couldn't think of being in any other field.
But I couldn't just tell the guy that everything is fine, and you make lots of money, and it's a cake job. It's only cake if your really into it and like doing IT work and you only make lots of money after you've either lucked out and hired into a company that values their IT department or you've been there so long that after the 100'th raise you finally make a decent amount of money. And don't even think your gonna make more then 25 - 30k when you get out of school, cause if your that lucky you may as well take your tuition and invest in lottery tickets. - Uber-Geek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3When a company advertises an IT professional with a bachelor's degree, MCSE, A+, Cisco, and 10+ years of experience with an annual salary of $35,000, you shouldn't be surprised if no one bothers to apply.
Pittsburgh is notorious for this. They want someone with a ton of certs and experience, and only want to pay them $12/hour, because they could hire a kid out of college for that. A kid who has never been in a production atmosphere, and will most likely kill more tech then he fixes. - XopherMV, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Exactly. When we see wages starting to go up, then we will know for sure that there are fewer workers available and that companies are having to offer more money to attract those workers. As it stands now, wages are still in the rut they've been in for the last five years. There are certainly no shortage of workers. That stands for both help desk and development.
- bonlebon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Don't fall for it, remember most people nowadays don't retire at the age they are supposed to because they can't afford a living with a pension and those 401K are still bruised from a couple of years ago.
A career in IT will land you a McJob if you don't have the proper contacts or leverages. - digitaldivider, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If there's a reason there's an IT workforce crisis it would probably be because of the fact that no one wants to give the kids out of college who need/want the experience for whatever the company is willing to offer an hour the chance to prove themselves in the digital arena. They're expecting people with years of experience to do the most basic of things. Wake up and smell the friggin coffee. In spite of their being Universitiy of Phonenix online, ITT tech, certification academies, etc. some of us who actually go to school for IT/networking at a real college do actually HAVE SOME SORT OF AN INTEREST IN IT, as opposed to just seeing as the next cash cow. suprise, su-*****-prise.
- Scriptic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I second that.
- vhold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Is this true? Where do these people end up employed? I've been working for 9 years and have yet to see one of these people.
- Shazam999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The article is talking about IT specifically. There's mention in there about declining CS enrollment as a cause of IT workforce shortage.
- romulusnr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The question is not "what does IT mean"? It is "what DOESN'T IT mean?" I think if you empty trash cans at a company that uses computers makes you an IT worker these days.
- seanmac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The problem is free agency: no company wants to hire inexperienced but intelligent people because they are afraid that these people will leave once they can get something better. If all companies follow this practice, there will eventually be a shortage of talented veterans.
- rfontaine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2LMAO - There IS NO IT SHORTAGE.
What there IS a shortage of is companies willing to pay decent wages for these skills. They then cry "WHAAAAA" we cannot find someone with great skills that is willing to work for sub standard wages. We need to import more cheap foreign labor! - camiller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have to tell you, almost everyplace I've worked and every team I've worked on was the exact opposite of what you are describing. I have no problem asking for any of my colleagues thoughts on an issue or giving the same when asked. Perhaps you need to look at companies that foster more teamwork.
- goldenbb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'm more than ready to see them all gone.
- romulusnr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sorry kids, this is all BS, there are (and will be) more tech workers in China and India to make up for all the retiring baby boomers. And those workers don't need "flexible work arrangements" or any of that employee-benefit crap. They work for peanuts and work double shifts and don't bitch about not getting Columbus Day off. They don't mind having their workstations completely deleted every two months, either, or having to share a cube with two other people. No, your best bet is to get an MBA and hope they don't start offshoring those too.
I don't know who came up with the "boomer crunch", but my guess is technical colleges. - Technopundit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Propaganda. These articles are planted by industry bosses who want to see more talent for less money. The labor market in IT is flooded, and will be for the foreseeable future. Define a typical IT position, then check the ads for the real scoop.
- GRoper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'll believe there's a job crisis when I'm working 40-50 hours at a good wage. I'm one of those over 50 developers and my experience is that companies will do most anything to avoid paying for my knowledge and skills. Businesses want cheap, young, and dumb labor, not experienced (read, _expensive_) people. Perhaps the latter are too likely to "push back" or laugh openly at management when outrageous statements/requests are made.
Not surprisingly, we're simultaneously seeing an industry push for more H1-B visas. - Scriptic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wow, not picking on you or anything, but there’s a lot of people here talking about writing code. Like that’s the ONLY thing an IT person ever does.
At least you touched on the issue superkendall;
“but somebody has to tell them what to actually write, and be able to tell if what they are getting back is what they want.”
That somebody’s profession comes by many names, but we can all agree at least that its an IT person doing that. Not some general manager that pops in making sure your fingers are punching your keyboard and code is flying off your screen.
That somebody is responsible for analyzing and designing a system. The program specs come from someplace you know, they don’t just appear from your nearest wormhole. And if you think cheap labor is going to analyze your system and suggest sound solutions of significant return on your initial IT investment, never mind write GOOD program specifications, then I’m sorry to say that you’re bonkers.
Really. You can’t get that in house, or even in country without paying arm, leg, and liver for it. And that’s not even guaranteeing you’ll get what you asked for because validation is poor in the IT field here. If its poor here, how poor do you think it’s going to be over there with language and cultural barriers, hmm? - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes but somebody has to tell them what to actually write, and be able to tell if what they are getting back is what they want.
Also there will also be some "glue" coding that is just faster to get done in house that kind of lives outside the standard company process for creating software. - lazyron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While there may be some truth to this article, I don't think it's on the mark. How many "boomers" do you know who are "IT People"? I admit there are a few who have IT skills but I would think most boomers would be in a managerial role and are not sysadmins or developers. The IT scene as it is today was created by the rise of the internet, making most IT workers not much older than mid-40s. Now if they included doing telecom as IT I could see this being more valid, but it's not really mentioned in the article.
- cheekybastard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I am sorry you work with losers. I wouldn't be able to do my admin job without a little help from my friends. But it works both ways, sometimes I'll spend 4-6 hrs helping them with their problems or problem customers for free.
Big-10 attitude problems? Change your scenery, move west. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1yup, the elitism is very common in large corporate environments with lots of bureaucracy. I would aim more for small start ups or family owned businesses. It is less pay but the work enviornment is much much much better.
- monergism, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Why the global warming commentary?
- ShyGuy91284, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So..... They mean I won't ever retire? Of course they will be relying more on people over 55. It's not well kept secret the retirement age is supposed to increase drastically over the next 50 years. I'll be lucky if I can retire before I'm 70 probably by the time I'm that old (Early 20's right now). Yes, I'll be able to retire at the average retirement age of today.... But my benefits will probably be sliced into a quarter of what people get today at this age...
- Scriptic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My department's director comes from one of those places. I work part time at my university, web development position.
Not sure I’ve seen anything remotely IT come out of that office apart from what I do.
But hey, the director does know how ftp works, and wow, that's IT proficient compared to everyone else in the building.
Does that count...?
I'm thinking no. - jiminoc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1there's been a shortage of decent talent for the past few years. hell yahoo has like 200 openings for PHP developers right now, google has something like 1400 open engineering positions.
- trotel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm 30 year old IT manager, and I've cut several people from my team in the last year because they did not cut it. 50% of of them were over 50. Some have taken notice.
Don't count out all the old folks though. I used to work with this one 65 Sysadmin who rocks! He will kick your butt at table tennis as well...a humbling experience. - tinapaal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As long as I don't have a job in my field, software development, I'll take pronouncements such as this with a frigging planetoid of salt. Software needs to be evaluated with the proper metrics in mind. More here:
http://www.definiteinfo.com/software/workforce-management-software.html - infonography, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Like the Jedi, IT people don't marry
But there will come one who will both marry in secret and turn to the dark side (management). Dark days are coming for the Tech Republic, the loss of Net Neutrality and the passing of the billg@microsoft prophesies a new force will arise A Tech Empire. Maybe out of Cuppertino? - Technopundit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They don't end up employed, at least not in IT. For more specific details, ask around amongst the guys stocking shelves down at the supermarket.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They outsource everything now lol. My company used to have a large financial and accounting department and within the last 6 months the department has been substancially reduced in size (by about 75%). We have a lot of empty cubicals now and they mostly have papers and the such in them. Even look at legislation trying to be opened to bring in H1B nurses because of the, "shortage" of nurses. So is outsourcing/H1b really only confined to IT? Not really. Anything that can be outsourced WILL be outsourced. Sorry guys you cannot run and you cannot hide, just learn to work longer, cheaper, and with no benefits. This is the global economy now!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Have you ever try applying at yahoo or Google? I think they are looking for a certain caliber of people (ie. the very smart and educated). Just from looking at their Google Labs Aptitude test, I can tell you that getting a job there is not easy.
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