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72 Comments
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32The IT workforce shortage myth is an invention to justify outsourcing or importing cheap labor. There is no shortage, just like there is no shortage of long-haul truckers. It's all a ploy to depress sector wages.
- LordSkippy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19@cbbspike
Maybe if you hired a good programmer, and then gave them a chance to get familiar with mobile devices, you would have what you are looking for by now. Instead of leaving the job vacant while you look for someone that perfectly fits a narrow job definition.
As a programmer, I can tell you, learning a new environment or language isn't all that hard. In the long run, you are better off looking for the best programmer available, and then let them get adjusted to the environment and languages used. - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I remember this one place that ended up making me an offer. The pay was acceptable but this was the first company I'd encountered that did the "free sodas/snacks, gym on premises, etc." thing. I was starting to get pretty excited on the tour until we got to the bunk beds...
I passed. - betasp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I don't think there is a true shortage of skilled IT workers. I think there is a shortage of IT workers who understand how to align their skills with the business goals of an organization.
- tzmguitarist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9"I don't think there is a true shortage of skilled IT workers."
Agreed.
From my personal experience it is actually harder to get jobs that allow you to specialize in a particular area. In an age where everyone considers themselves to be IT professionals companies will leverage every part of your skillset. I think the "shortage" is a much-needed weeding of the garden that has been performed over the course of the last 5-10 years.
I have yet to see companies bending over backwards to hire nominal workers. They want less people who can do more and work faster - all while keeping a standard of quality. - dvddesign, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Crap like that's why I left the IT industry.
I started out making $12 an hour building $250,000 computer systems. Got pay bumps and a different job up to 30,000/yr where it stalled. New boss lied about where profits were going, didn't want to do pay raises, even when staff got trimmed. And yet, he was shocked when I quit.
So, I dropped out. I couldn't see how such a specialized portion of the IT industry could get away with paying so low, so frequently, so I'm through with it.
I'm sure software people get compensated on a slightly different scale to make up for lost hours spent at the office on crunch deadlines, but I can't imagine anyone doing large scale enterprise stuff and only take $30-35K a year home. I'd never take that job.
Let us not forget, we're the ones that are trusted to make sure no one surfs for porn at work, everyone gets their email, phones work, and that those critically important video conferences go through from Boca Raton/Cancun. If they want all that running properly, they gotta pony up the cash. I refuse to wear another hat again outside of my job description.
I don't need 6 figure salaries to start, but I feel I deserve equal compensation to that of a regular office drone. I don't think any part of the job for IT people qualifies as secretarial or entry level, and the pay shouldn't reflect that. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12When was the last time you tried to hire someone who could get solaris printer drivers working as well as diagnose and replace a bad RAM module in an AIX machine without changing its init state? I think the problem here is that by "IT worker" most people assume "toner-monkey".
That's just not the case. Some of us are looking for people who actually know what theyre doing---and I can tell you from personal experience that people who actually know what theyre doing are rare--and getting rarer. - willistg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@cbbspike
Hello? I'm that guy you are looking for. I just finished up a Windows Mobile project it's beta due to go GA in a couple of months. I'm a US Citizen. Male and White :D
Here's why I think you can't find anyone. Mainly because you are far too restrictive in your requirements. Anyone who can do .net can do Windows Mobile development. What you should have been looking for was a decent .net developer that was willing to do mobile dev for you.
When we needed to up the capacity to get stuff done quicker, I nabbed a couple of j2ee developers from a project that was finishing up. They worked out great. It's not like C# and .net is that hard to understand.
I can tell you from my experience that the learning curve on the developers end was nowhere near as time consuming as the rest of the organization changes that were needed in order to market and support the thing.
Answer me this. Does your development team take part in interviewing candidates? If not they should they are a better gage of someones technical skills then some HR person or some career manager.
Back on topic.... there's no IT shortage. - VeganG, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Wow, what an amaaaazing perk.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Yep. Employers are pulling out all the stops. Like that job I saw for a Microcomputer Support specialist.
"The person in this position will report to the Vice President of Information Technology/Chief Information Officer"
"here are approximately 950 microcomputers including desktop workstations, Novell servers, and Windows servers "
"At least an associate's degree in Computer Science or Computer Information Systems, or any combination of education, training, or experience equivalent to the above associate's degree; two years of the latest Novell, PC, Macintosh and LAN hardware and application experience; excellent interaction skills, desire to learn, and team player required. Bachelor's degree and experience in an educational environment and experience with Windows 2003 preferred."
"Salary range is low $30's" - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6And they wonder why they have no takers...
- jjgitties, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6article is lame. trust me. there is no such thing as IT skills shortage. there is IT skills shortage for people that want to do tons of work and get paid peanuts.
- Jerim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ccbspike
I think the point everyone is making is that you are too narrow in your viewpoint. You want an exact match to a certain position. A long time ago, I went to a private school. The teachers were very competent. They instilled in us the tools to continue to teach ourselves long after we graduated.
What is happening in IT is that too many companies are looking for "trade skills." Gone are the days when being a programmer with an interest in archeology or astronomy would show employers that they are a well rounded educated person. It just seems to me that you don't necessarily want a great mind, you just want some code monkey. For any serious company, go out and find "smart" people. Sure you are doing .net mobile programming today, but what about tomorrow. Is that same programmer going to be able to help when you decide to go into C++ programming? Probably not. Find you a smart programmer and they will be able to adapt to your business. (And I agree with previous posts. .Net is pretty easy. If you are looking for someone who only knows .Net, that doesn't necessarily make them a good programmer. It just makes them a good .Net programmer, which is like saying someone is a good calculator user.) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Actually, there is a shortage of Long Haul truckers. I would know, I was one. Of course, the shortage is caused by working conditions, but the shortage is there.
- Jerim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Exactly. From what I have seen, most companies are looking for the one person who literally knows everything, has no personal life, and is willing to work for min. wage. If that is what they are looking for, then yes there is a shortage of that.
- calebb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6http://duggmirror.com/tech_news/IT_Recruitment_Perks_to_Lure_Staff/
Or if you prefer...
http://www.duggmirror.com/
(I figured computerworld.com could handle the traffic from a digg...) - zbeast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4In my local area the IT space is recovering from a 4 year job drought.
If you did IT at any level your chance of finding a job was from slim to none.
There's no shortage of people. Tho lots of people are totally burned out on the job. - ddinsdale, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4There's another factor in the shortage equation: recruiters and HR weasels who don't know jack about tech and rely on pattern matching SQL/SAP/Java phrases. Instead of looking for capability, they look for an exact match in some perceived hyper-specialty. So of course there is a shortage. I was seriously asked how many years experience I had with Advanced SQL Server 2003...in mid 2004.
- montage, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Its because you are recruiting for keywords and not evaluating the skill of the candidate. While I do not know .Net or Mobile Device programming I am confident I could pick it up within a week. However because the keywords you are looking for do not appear on my resume chances are I wouldn't be considered a candidate to fill the position.
There is no shortage of IT people..just a shortage of people who know how to recruit - smitting, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Most people with specialized technology knowlege like .Net mobile development probably already work for higher paying consulting companies. I have experience with everything you have mentioned, but I'm too busy running a consulting company to go work for you. IANAL, but I believe H1B's aren't allowed to create domestic corporations.
- autobahn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6IT SUCKS right now. There is no shortage, and there are no perks.
Everyone wants contract workers so they don't have to pay benefits and can dispose of you easily. Salaries are depressed and employers want a crazy amount of experience at a dismal pay-level. There's no way for junior-level workers to even gain any experience, as many traditionally junior-to-mid level positions are REQUIRING tons of experience at that level! No way in the door!
I'm trying to find work in IT right now and it's absolutely depressing. Either I take a contract position and hope I don't get sick and pay for all my medications out of pocket, or I find a different industry to work in.
IT workers are becoming slaves. It pains me to think about this, but I see a union looming in the future. - smitting, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I think the main problem is that most businesses don't have IT as part of their core competancy, and which generally means they have no idea of how to manage their IT resources effectively. The majority of companies should "source" this work to another local company who specializes in their IT needs.
The original company would save money from not spinning their wheels, they don't have to constantly come up with work so they don't have, and they would have top-notch expertise readily available (depending on the company they hire). The IT employees, who most likely care more about the technology than the business they are working for, should be working for one of these IT companies, whose management is focused on IT efficiencies since that IS their core competancy.
This is a win-win for all parties involved, and both companies would provide better job security than the current norm. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Help wanted one super programmer, must be be 18 to 21 years old, have current masters degree, ten years experience. Pay 15,000 year.
This is why I own my business! - mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Thats a tall order for a secretary.
- saranagati, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@cbbspike
If you're looking for a competent IT person to hire, you should probably have a competent environment for them to work in. I'm not saying that .Net isn't the best solution for your situation, however if you're looking for competent people, .Net doesn't breed the most competent programmers (not trying to insult .Net programmers here, but honestly like 20% of .Net programmers are competent and the other 80% or mediocre or sub par). On the other hand if you were to be looking for a c/c++ programmer, about 80% of them would be competent. .Net just attracts more of the inexperienced programmers or just people without the aptitude to be great at programming. - adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3 cbbspike wrote:
"Perhaps I should have given more detail, what I am trying to say was that the only person who matched our very specific criteria was not even a citizen.
The people we have interviewed so far were very focused in certain areas of IT and therefore would take too much time to train them into what we needed. I will admit we are looking for a very specific person, and we are just sad we had found this person and he got away. "
I think you just answered your own question. The problem today is that 90% of the companies want someone who's already been trained by another company on how to do things. They consider the idea of bringing in talent and doing the training themselves as wasting time. So when your trying to fill your positions, instead of finding someone who's obviously skilled and would only require a few weeks at most to learn whatever you need done, the company cuts corners and spends months trying to find someone that can do it from the get go. I wonder how many skilled and talented programmers have passed over your company because they read your specific requirements and decided to not even try. - mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Perks? The only perk i got was my own roll of toilet paper.
- mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Where did you put your ad out? Craigslist? If you want someone with specific skills, go for those job agencies.
- dpchi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@smitting
Too busy to help but not to post on digg ;) - liquidfirex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@yttrx
The IT field is so INSANELY vast and complex that there are tons of talented and skilled poeple, but they are they are masters of only a select niche or subset of the whole market. But that doesn't make them any less skilled.
I mean how many different architectures for any one grouping of components are there? How many programming languages? How many work flow practices? Sure some programming skill such as groundwork concepts transfer over well, but you can't go saying your a master c++ programmer because you know about pointers and for loops.
Also basing someones skillset by comparing theirs to your own isn't the most practical guage of ability in my mind. - drimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The article is lame. It only mentions one or two instances where a company may add extra perks for hiring, but doesn't apply to IT really at all, only in the sense that IT workers may be highly skilled. The article appears to show that recruitment staff may not be aware of the extra bonuses and thus, the job seeker should ask, but keep in mind that being skilled does not translate to an automatically higher skill.
It's just common sense. - happyMac, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3we get free milk... but we're an agricultural cooperative in Wisconsin so it's sort of like eating our own dogfood.
- kellyschrock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2One problem companies are having hiring devs is the narrow requirements mentioned here, at least in my area. I've heard of numerous companies looking for (for example) a J2EE developer with experience with a specific version of WebSphere. Devs experienced with WebLogic, JBoss, etc., or even earlier versions of WebSphere need not apply, since the company is a WebSphere 6.0 shop. As if taking the two or three hours to get familiar with the WebSphere console is going to prevent them from being useful.
Another thing is clueless recruiters. I talked to one the other day who asked me if I had "framework" experience. I asked "what framework are you referring to?" He was flummoxed by my question. "You know... framework. Have you done it?" I talked to another recruiter who had "a job opportunity", but didn't have a description of the job and couldn't even tell me who the hiring company was, for fear someone might go "around" them to get the job. Those kinds of calls don't pique my interest in the least, and I think that's probably pretty common. - cbbspike, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Ok, then how do you explain the fact that my company has been looking for a .Net programmer with experience in Mobile Devices and some network background, and after 3 months looking for people we finally found someone, problem was the guy was in a H1B visa, and on top of that we had to pay him above market so leave his old company, and when we though we had him, his old company counter offers and he stayed over there, and we are still looking. We only get resumes of people who either have no idea about mobile devices, or people without any experience at all.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Wow, This article is really saying nothing. There are no facts presented to back up any of the claims. Plus the page is nearly 50% advertisements, burried as Lame.
- mutatron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Funny how much discussion there is about this among Americans and only one person noticed this was article is from an Australian site. Oh... two now.
I know one thing though, in the US the market for Java is hot right now. It's back up to $40/hr for me, and I haven't even done much Java since 2002, I've been mostly doing LAMP. - itsthemechanic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"However, there is a small percentage who misinterpret the skills shortage as an opportunity to receive inflated salaries."
"Inflated" salaries? It's called supply and demand. Asshats. - buddyfarr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2dang it!! I have to share the toilet paper here....man I got jipped.....
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2LogicaCMG. Nobody in the US has heard of us.
- Krakn3Dfx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"I think the main problem is that most businesses don't have IT as part of their core competancy, and which generally means they have no idea of how to manage their IT resources effectively. The majority of companies should "source" this work to another local company who specializes in their IT needs."
Spoken like a true contract company owner.
We currently have an outsourced company handling our servers, and it's costing us twice to 3x the amount it costs when it was handled in house. Once our contract is up, we will be moving back to in-house IT support, outsourcing is an expensive prospect, from personal experience, especially when you deal in the per-incident costs, password resets $10, file restores $25, etc., it makes no sense to outsource what can be done in-house. - betasp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree. An IT services company is only worried about IT and not the business goals of the company. How can an outsourced company actually find opportunities within a business?
- anamanaman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Uhhh.. this is really simple math. Higher salary = higher chance of getting a well qualified applicant. Managers at software companies in the Northwest really have a hard time understanding this. They hire contractors at 95/hr (agency fee) and absolutely refuse to hire any full time employees more than 85k a year.
If they offered 120K/yr (much less than they pay contract agencies), they could easily find superstar developers. - endgame, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree with many of you folks. Companies want the guy that knows & can fix anything. You MUST be able to program a Cisco Router, build a windows Domain from the ground up, Fix all the printers, and program in C++. i also forgot to tell you we have 4 Nix servers that also require service! Thats just crazy!!
BTW: I just got a new job yesterday working in the IT department of the Sheriff's Department in my town. I'm leaving a GREAT IT job I've held for 5 years but it's time to move on to bigger & brighter things! - cphuntington97, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2When I read most jobs ads, I get the impression that someone who had worked their way through the company held the job previously.
Typical, real life example:
Administrative and Technical Support Assistant
*Associate's Degree in Business, computer technology or 5 years of relevant experience. *One year general office experience in areas of reception, clerical, and computer application, required. *One year technical experience supporting computer systems, phone systems and websites, preferred. *Proficiency in Microsoft Word, Excel, Outlook, Access, and Publisher. *Technical experience supporting computer systems, phone systems and websites. - gmerin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I see many companies desperate to hire IT workers, at $60k or less, but I see few desperate to pay salaries comparable to sanitation workers ($100+).. I think this is a fantasy perpetuated by the trade media and a few large corporations who would like to see the HB-1 visa quotas increased again.
- talman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The article is from an Australian site so it could be perpetuating the myth of a shortage , so that they can say we need to import more "skilled" (lower paid workers).
I highly doubt that there is a shortage of IT workers, but in Australia there is definitely a shortage of companies with any perks. (under paid and unappreciated)
I for one have lost faith in the IT "keyword" recruitment process, so perhaps people are applying less for IT jobs which they have misinterpreted as a skill shortage.
However having said that, there was a job vacancy which received no applications here recently for a team leader position. (help!, I want out) - cybersphere, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The mass media is like the boy who cried wolf too many times. They cry shortage so that the corporates can justify more offshoring.
IMO, they've lost their credibility. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Some people can take a complicated thing and make it simple.
Other people take a simple thing and make it complicated.
If the programmer loves complexity for its own sake... then you are "up the tata without a tutu" from step one. - adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1but one that seems to be more and more common
- saranagati, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1willistg
actually I'm not a c++ programmer at all. I do some c programming but I wouldn't kid myself that knowing as much as I do with it, that I should find a job doing that. However I do know quite a few of them and understand the philosophy of programming behind c/c++. And the reason that I didn't state that its my opinion is because it being my opinion is inherent in my statement. It's not possible to lump millions of different people with millions of different companies and state any generalization as a fact. The reason however I felt the need to state my opinion on it all is that what you stated is a very common complaint about c/c++ programmers and it seems to be because they don't understand the philosophy that many c/c++ programmers have. With many other languages, you're just trying to get a program out the door as soon as possible to please management, who cares if it has bugs or is just an all around bad program, it got out the door on time and you'll get paid for the time you programmed it (I'm more or less included in this group with my job).
With c/c++ programmers they usually do it because they enjoy the intricacies to computers and programming around it (if they didn't they'd use a higher level language). If someone really enjoys this, they most likely are more competent at it than someone who is just programming because they enjoy programming (at best) but program in the currently hyped up language that is making people money.
ok well, people keep bugging me at work so I've lost my train of thought, hopefully that's an adequate response to what you said. -
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