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- oOLiquidNightOo, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17respectfully, that story sounds absurd. it's the kind of thing that, you expect to hear from someone, who didn't get the job.
"i *****' nailed it, but then some suit points out that i graduated from tallahassee community college and bam it's over. damn you google, i'll claw my way to the top and you'll pay .. you'll pay !!!"
(**prospective employee throw his fists and face to the sky, his face is swallowed by the dark and falling rain and the camera rescinds skyward**)
[end scene] - shawnblog, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16The value of a college degree is totally overrated. Of course, Idon't have a college degree. But I've had more than a few MBA's work for me that were more hassle than help.
- noGoodNamesLeft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9stephthegeek: "A friend of a friend was flown down and then told his GPA was too low."
WTF?! Are you saying they flew him down (I assume at their expense?) first and *then* checked his GPA?
Sounds fishy. Why would they waste their time and money like that with something that could easily be checked beforehand? Unless, of course, someone fscked up. - luxette, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13The point being, there's something wrong with Google's hiring if an exec gets to deep-six a hire over the objections of the hiring department because of something as arbitrary as where an applicant went to school.
- iamexcite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@luxette: That could be a true story, but honestly that sounds more than a little odd... if you take Google out of the equation, then this story is one I've heard dozens of times. Oh, I got the job, but a manager didn't like the way I dressed. Oh, I got the job, but then they had a sudden falling out with a company that I worked for three years ago so I got the axe. Oh, I got the job, but someone less qualified but of a different [gender/race/sexual orientation] came along and they dropped me. Oh, I got the job but then someone found out I went to the school that had the football team that beat the CEO's school so I was fired on my first day.
Honestly I would think that most managers in ANY business would be out to recruit the best person for the job, regardless of something as insignificant as what school you went to... so long as that school produced students of a decent caliber.
Now put Google back into the equation - again, speculation, but it's doubtful they have the managers that would skew hiring based on personal grudges. And I've heard Google has a pretty stringent interview process, so I'm sure the applicant's education must have been pretty solid before getting to the final round in the interview process.
That said, I know there are some companies that do have final-round executive approval. A couple years ago a friend who worked at Apple told me that Steve Jobs still approves every candidate that works there... whether this was internal legend, just a big "yes" iStamp on his iDesk or something that really happens is unknown to me. Still, this is likely something that happens BEFORE the candidates are notified one way or another, lest any PR issue like this result.
Also, how would the applicant have heard? Having had a bunch of friends go through the job process (grad school for me), most companies phone or mail you back and say "sorry, it didn't work out. We can't give you details but we don't think this is a good fit at this time; please keep us in consideration. We wish you the best of luck in your career, blah blah blah." Not "hey man I was rooting for you but Manager X totally axed you because you went to Podunk State!"
Same goes for GPA levels; I know some companies do disclose desired GPA and some don't. Usually it's a combination of the whole resume, and like with higher education apps, if you can explain a mediocre GPA or can offset it with other things, then you don't necessarily get dropped. I'm sure this varies by institution.
My bet is that this story was an excuse made to save face at a brunch... unless you know and trust this person, I would be extremely cautious taking this story as fact for any company, let alone Google. - thatsiebguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I just went through this a week ago, Google flew me out to Kirkland, WA to interview for a position after three phone screens. It was a good experience, they were all really good people to get the chance to talk to. The office, while not Mt.View, was still nice with many of the same benefits (free food, open relaxed atmosphere). All I did was apply for a position through their Jobs site, and surprisingly, all the people I interviewed with got there the same way including the head of IT. They have a pretty cool video conferencing system setup too. Most of the users/engineers there indeed used Ubuntu and I'll admit, they do know their stuff.. They never asked me about my educational history (or lack thereof), just past work experience and how I would deal with various situations. Personality and Wit goes along way with them. Easily one of the nicer interviews I've been through.
- kamtsa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The story does not sound right or at least typical. At Google engineers are hired mostly by fellow engineers as opposed to the coventional 'hiring manger'.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I applied for a janitorial job, but didn't have a doctorate in sanitation. Sadly I was shown the door and someone else gets to wipe asses on the party jet. Stock scams are so cruel.
- thatsiebguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I interviewed for a Field Tech position, not as a program engineer. I would assume educational history is more important for the programming position as job experience/history is to the tech position. I've read varying accounts of people going through rather rigorous interviews for programming. I will note that in all accounts, including mine, they grabbed someone at the last minute to act as another body to interview with, that person not having much to do with the position your interviewing for. I got grilled with alot of questions far outside my realm by the last person that interviewed me. Only afterwards did I find out she was a Sysop (very sharp) and asked sysop interview questions, nothing expected of a field tech. They do seem to put emphisis on your problem solving abilities - take a given situation and think up a viable how-to solution you would use.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Well, there's a college degree in computer science, which really teaches you a lot of important fundamental things about programming well in the long-term, and then there's the MBA, which is a whole other story.
There's also a fair bit of self-selection as to which people go and get computer science degrees and which people get MBAs. - paolom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4i recently made it all the way to the final interview in the google interview process... was applying for a position as Software Engineer in Test. Needless to say I had to jump through lots of hoops to get to that point.... so many in fact, that by the time I was invited for the onsite i had already receieved and accepted an offer at another large company, where i am now happily employed... Cancelled my onsite interview once i decided that I'd have enough of hoop jumping :)
- hls1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Do you mean Google, or Good, which is a great choice for wireless email and such on a smartphone?
If you look at their site, and the labs page, you will see that Google in fact has many, many products. Their business model generates revenue through ad sales - they don't sell their products for cash - but that doesn't change anything about their products.
Something tells me they would not even think of having you work for them either, so you're in luck. - covertbadger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3People that have turned down Google should form some sort of honorary club or something. I was referred by a friend and the London office tried to recruit me, but I declined the phone interview on the grounds that I was happy with my current job. This seemed to cause them some amount of surprise.
- hakrzcode, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2beotch: They did not invent anything? Sounds like microsoft. They make pretty good money. ;)
- unibomber999, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"all they have is advertising"
Ever hear of television? How about magazines?
Bah, worthless advertising. It's better that you keep bagging groceries at the stop & shop, they sell real products dammit. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Hm, interesting... When Google contacted me it sounded very promising. But then, Google wanted to send me my CV. "Oh, no University Degree? Sorry, mate..."
- gaijintendo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I got my job application returned because I lacked sufficient qualifications, and I have a masters with merit.
- dgulbran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@wowbagger:
"all they really have is advertising"
And a big pile of money. Mwwwaaahhh ha ha.
I'd gladly trade a few products for some of Google's advertising. - boyter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Its the hot place to be in tech right now. like Sun was a few years back. Its time will pass soon enough.
That said I would love to work for them right now. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2No PhD = no Google
- brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I recently finished interviewing with Google.
FYI Google has recruiters which screen your application and screen you on the phone.
If approved, you move onto a 4-hour interview process with 4-5 peers who will decide. This is pretty standard in the industry at this level.
Not having a good experience with grads from a particular school is a perfectly valid criteria for reccommending hires you have interviewed. Some schools suck, and it shows in their grads, shouldnt be a surprise to anyone who has hired professionally. Just because it was the tipping point for the decision of one specific hire over another does not speak to the importance of schools in Google decisionmaking overall.
And to respond to another comment, Google hiring is not algorythmic anymore then any other desirable high-end tech company, the process is essentially the same - do your best to narrow down a mountain of resumes to a clearly qualified stack, phone screen them, and pass them off to a jury of their peers for interview, who make a collective decision based on *their* opinions of whats important.
This was similar to the way we interviewed candidates at Yahoo! - no one at Yahoo! instructed me in any way how to interview a candidate or what criteria to use - that was entirely up to me, and we would discuss our experiences and opinions as a group, frequently with wildly varied opinions and sometimes argument. Its not taken lightly at either company.
At Yahoo! I reccommended a 17-year old who hadnt even graduated high school to become an engineer - at the time, we didnt even have any engineers without a college degree (and I was the only one without a BS). He was hired and was one of the most productive engineers on the team.
If you are 17 dont get your hopes up. He was sysadmin for an ISP for 2 years and could do basically anything with unix and IP networking you could need, and in many cases already had. It was also clear he had no meaningful life outside of computers and would devour any project he was given with extreme prejudice and enthusiasm - which he did.
Dont think for a minute that Google and/or Yahoo! are elitists that dont realize their are resume-unqualified people who would kick ass - *everyone* knows this. Its just a sad reality that in practical terms it is usually impossible to identify these hidden treasures in a pile of 150,000 resumes (thats how many google gets MONTHLY), especially without an internal referral. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@jacauc
Unless you have a PhD they probably won't be interested. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It's not a ***** marriage, it's a job and you can be fired at any time. This elitist ***** google pulls must be a power trip rather than anything to do with common sense.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Nobody wants to work at google, they just want the snacks and atmosphere. It's like a hotel where you just relax and get paid for having a phd. You fill the office up and make google look good to investors and that's all that counts.
- paolom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3exactly, thats why i had such a big grin on my face when i turned them down
dont think they're used to rejection.... at least outside the dating world :) - pauly1980, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2entrepreneurial drive, kids!!
- tobias1482, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm just curious why so many people want to work for google. Obviously this article was popular enough to bubble up to the top page.
- hkornfeld, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I agree that MBAs are way overrated. Most of the stuff they teach in business school seems to me to be common sense. When I was going to grad school, I'd walk past the business school building on a Friday evening and could smell the alcohol from the outside. They'd all be in there for happy hour and networking.
A friend from India told me MBA stands for Much Below Average over there. - stephthegeek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Doesn't surprise me. I went through the wringer with them and then got dumped off as well. It makes sense in a way, Google basically uses an algorithm to choose employees just like its search engine uses. It may lose out on some good people now and then, but it probably works for them at the volume they have to hire at. A friend of a friend was flown down and then told his GPA was too low.
- boyter, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3oOLiquidNightOo
I dont know about the story myself.
My cousin was asked by Google to come in for an interview. Which she did. One of the first things they asked were which Univeristy she went to and what was her GPA. She replied that she spent most of her time in University drinking and socalising, which didnt really help that much. So I suspect its not totally far from the truth.
I think she is happier doing what shes doing now, working in Hawaii. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2To put it better; google has no products that couldn't be easily cloned (just as they cloned them). They didn't invent a damn thing, but what google does have is an excellent stock price and some real good "artists" that made it that way. Enron 2.0.
- iamexcite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1No products? Just copying from their site...
web search, image search, video, news, maps, books, froogle, groups, alerts, blog search, book search, catalogs, checkout, desktop, directory, earth, finance, froogle, local, scholar, specialized searches, toolbar, web search features, code co-op, blogger, calendar, gmail, picasa, sketchup, talk, translate, maps for mobile, google mobile, sms, desktop, pack, web accelerator
Apologies for any duplicates, and of course for any I left out. Like page creator, transit, mars, related links, trends, reader, ride finder, picasa for linux, suggest, sets....
If you're arguing that products aren't real unless you can buy them and hold them in your hand, then they offer a couple versions of the Google search appliance. - tobias1482, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1:), but why be just a hamster? If you live next door, it's not a bad setup. Otherwise... ?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@stephthegeek, Given what you say is true, and I believe it is, all you have to do is turn your resume into a blog and google will be all over you like Oprah on a baked ham.
- elroy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Having a degree, above-all, shows that you have the perseverance it takes to get a degree. That comes in handy at companies where they have big projects and lofty goals. It also shows you're able to learn (it's amazing how many people stick to one skill set and refuse to change).
As others have said, though, the discipline a degree is in does have to be taken into account. - shawnblog, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4I could not agree more with this.
- jacauc, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Does anyone know if google has active operations in South Africa? ..I would love to give a stab at getting a techy job there, but last time I checked they were looking for a startup manager... now... nothing... has that job been taken?? (i.e. if that job's taken, then they might start expanding on lower level jobs and tech stuff)
- luxette, on 10/12/2007, -16/+11At a brunch this weekend, I heard an anecdote about a Google job applicant whose hiring was nixed because a C-level Google executive had reviewed the application and didn't like the school the applicant had gone to. The department that had the job opening disagreed and went so far as to give said executive a full-out presentation as to why they wanted to hire the person anyway, but the exec still said no.
The applicant is now happily employed at another large Valley company.
I was assured this is a true story, but I don't know firsthand if it is or not. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3Google has no products though, all they really have is advertising and a bunch of pontificators. I would not even think of working for them.
- oOLiquidNightOo, on 10/12/2007, -19/+1ignore.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -19/+1done.
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