What is Digg?79 Comments
- chris9902, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14the first result for just about everything now is Wikipedia.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -7/+19Google's search results have been off for years. Any topic or keyword for anything that can be sold has been gamed by the SEO crowd.. which means the first 3 pages are basically ads from people looking to scam you.
And seriously- with Google's stock price at 500 bucks a share, any engineer with even the slightest math comprehension knows that they arent going to get rich working for Google. You'd have better luck joining a startup or even founding one of your own.
The most hilarious part about the hiring process at google is where they frown upon anyone who doesn't have a phd.. yet larry page and sergey brin, the co-founders of the company, never got their phds. - Homunculiheaded, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13"A single objection will almost always sink a candidate's chances of ever getting hired at Google, those familiar with the company say."
Uggg.. this kind of hiring practice is exactly how things work in the committee driven world of academia, and frankly it encourages hiring very average candidates in the creativity/personality (It's also empowers the loudest most stubborn people). Really brilliant people, energetic people often tend to ruffle a few feathers, especially when you first meet them. Furthermore not all people are equally as good at seeing the traits of a really good candidate in an interview and when you demand consensus you default to the opinion of the person who cannot see these things.
Little things like this make me think all of this Google lust is a little over the top, and will not last. Hiring practices like that don't immediately show their weakness since you'll still be getting good/amazing candidates, but in the long run this practice makes an organization continually more resistant to hiring fresh and innovative employees that can see outside the world the company lives in. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11There's pretty obvious ageism at Google, and a kind of Stanford attitude to boot I think. I was submitted for two positions there for which I was really well qualified, and one of the better ones in my field, but I'm over 35, and don't obviously rollerblade. They were a bit arrogant with me, so screw that kind of attitude. I figure what goes around comes around, and in 10 years they'll have some problems when the existing employees get snotty about hiring young people, and they lose the chance for livening up the company with good people.
- elvenseven, on 10/10/2007, -8/+16Off topic: Is it just me or google's search results are way off lately.
- Homunculiheaded, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8The biggest danger to Google was when they became so popular that people started designing content around how Google searches rather than Google creating search algorithms around the way people design content. Google won the search game by employing the later strategy; I think SEO has made it too easy for Google to relax their efforts on search.
- michaelbolton, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9that was a useless article.
- daftman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Well it depends on the job they ask for.
Google don't just ask for a degree. They ask for PhDs. They want to best of the best and honestly, if you are an employer, who wouldn't? - Snarfy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Nobody wants to work with elitist pricks. If you don't have a degree you are treated like a second rate citizen, and their pay isn't even competitive! Any good will Google had with me burned up during the two month long interview process. Sure it would be cool to work for Google, but not *that* cool.
- Yokwe, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Not to mention the cost of living in the Bay Area.
- fotbr, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7well, since it returns 80% + blogspam, yeah, I'd say its way off.
- str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6well putting together another article on digg with this one, apparently higher salary isn't enough. I'm referring to that Silicon Valley article about millionaires thinking that they're not rich..you have to offer them more then money apparently.
The tech industry seriously is in disrepair. I remember when I was entering college they were saying that the IT field is booming and they need people so badly that they're sending out limos, and giving out all sorts of perks for people to join companies. All of which was complete BS except for some rare cases, where the company ended up folding over. They're doing the same thing again, making promises that are inane and most likely improbable, only Google is doing some of those promises - so it seems to prospective students that the same could be true for them as well - but with the US economy slowing down, Google stock on a decline recently -it's funny to hear the idealism and hopes of some of these students. I feel bad for them because they're getting seriously screwed over, the markets already over-saturated. - hokie47, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8"Tough standards are Google's other vulnerability. The company targets graduates of top schools who have top grades: that all but rules out, say, Microsoft Founder Bill Gates or Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs, neither of whom have a college degree."
- daftman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Gates and Jobs are one in a million. You cannot compare normal graduates to those who are only one in a million. However, you still need talented people to keep the engine rolling. You cannot sit there and wait for those one in a million guys to appear. Granted I would dare say if you actually can prove to Google that you're one of those ***** exceptional guys like Gates or Jobs, they would hire you instantly.
- str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9Whoever came up with that headline at forbes was drunk or wasted. how about "Beating Google at its hiring Game" or "Besting Google: Better Employment Perks", any of those would be more descriptive.
- str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Gourmet food, massages, doctors on call, etc.
The reason they do this is not to make employees happy, well not so much, but MORESO to keep you at work. They want your entire life and livelihood to revolve around the Company. That way you'll be more loyal, and you'll be less likely to slack off or quit the company. They want your good friends to be Google employees, and they want you accustomed to a Google lifestyle. You essentially become a part of Google, quitting Google means losing a part of your life (your friends, etc). That's the reason why they do the whole here takes some free stuff, and bring your family. Microsoft does this as well - but I believe they just give out chocolate bars and have picnics or something like that. Same idea though. - pjs1840, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I HATE FORBES.COM INTERSTITIALS.
- VSLOATHE, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Many universities are becoming more and more practical, much to the chagrin of lifelong scholars like myself. I enjoy learning for the sake of learning, and practical application is something you learn on your own time, not in a university. Nor should it be something you learn in a university in my opinion. Tech schools are for those who can't teach themselves technical concepts, the rest of us get along fine as self-taught.
- rabidbob, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7I'd love to, but I fall in to one of those "Google unhirable" categories; while I have 10 odd years experience in the IT industry, doing everything from support to data recovery to software development, I have no degree.
- Philluminati, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3If you have both there is little you can't do.
Seriously tho, you can do a degree in software design when your 35 and come out with fresh, up to date design skills, a wealth of experience and you can still offer a company upto 20 years of employment. - donsmith, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Really was expecting more from this article. Not a single quote from anyone that has gone through the recruiting process at Google or even and employment analyst quote. Anyone could have written this article.
- rootstyle, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Oh PCPimpster, you ARE the devry infomercial. Kudos to you and your moderate success and extreme gloating!
- daftman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Interesting. Conversely, I've seen candidates with 10 years of experience but only manage to be above the average code monkeys. They don't know anything about SDLC, RIsk Management, Requirement Engineering, Architecture/HLD etc. Most grad student are dumb, but the exceptional ones are usually the one who graduated already with at least 1-2 years internship behind-the-ears.
- chexxor, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Wrong.
Summary: If you want to hire someone that Google wants, you have to make them an offer with a deadline of a few days.
Google's hiring process takes forever plus a week, so the Google-prospect would have to decide between a sure-fire job with you and an iffy one at Google in a few weeks. - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Ok, now put yourself in their shoes. They are an internet company. They are new. They have ***** of competitors like MIcrosoft, Yahoo, etc. So in order to be the best they need to have the best people working for them. If you don't have a degree, how the ***** can they distinguish you from a bunch of other idiots who don't have degree and useless? By your experience? How? Call up your past employers and get bunch of nice colorful ***** that they cannot verify? Take your words for it? Even a degree doesn't guarantee you a job, but it is a good indication that you were diligent enough to get an education.
Furthemore Google isn't about pay. It's about the working environment. I don't think they are looking for people who want to get rich real fast by getting some company's stock once they are in and then sell it and retire. No, they want engineers who actually enjoy engineering who want a decent pay and comfortable environment.
And about being elitist pricks? Go and try to join a professional Football team. Do you think they let any idiots join even if he cannot prove that he's good or fit? Life's like that. Deal with it. - str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3yea and MFA (made for adsense) pages are on the rise - I'm noticing that a lot of search terms are bringing up these sites, some are disguised like blogs but have gibberish text about "forex" and "viagra"
- VSLOATHE, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7If you like an overly stringent and tedious hiring process, and then making 2/3rds-3/4ths as much as you would anywhere else in the private sector, then yeah. Go for it!
- smackhero, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2VSLOATHE is right. college is about intellectual pursuit, not helping you land the highest paying job. universities used to provide students with a well-rounded education and foster the spirit of learning. but more and more these days they're just being turned into trade schools and dropping GE requirements. if you want career training you should really just go to a trade school like ITTech or DeVry or something.
most of the kids at my former college (UIUC) were trust fund babies and got in on the sole basis that they went to an expensive prep school. many students seemed more interested in drinking themselves retarded than pursuing their academic career or any kind of personal growth. it seems like nowadays everyone just goes to college so that afterwards they can impress potential employers with their degree. no one cares about the education anymore.
hands-on experience can be easily gained on your own, and if you need a little guidance you can always apply for an internship in the field you want to work in. but that isn't what college is for. college is there to foster intellectual growth and for immersing oneself in academic pursuit. it also serves as a gathering place for intellectuals and people passionate about learning in general. part of the reason to go to college is for the people you meet and network with. you're not going to meet the same caliber people at a tech school like DeVry. - MikeL123, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2That quote is 100% false. I just completed candidate interview training at Google, and it was made quite clear that one objection will never sink a candidate's chances of getting hired (unless that objection comes from Larry or something). That would be asinine, it clearly makes no sense for a supposedly intelligent company to let one interviewer's opinion have anywhere near majority input on a candidate.
The article is correct in that the biggest weakness of the hiring process is the amount of time it takes from start to finish. I was extremely close to giving up on my application there, as the rounds of interviews and the waiting for the decision of the "hiring committees" made it almost intolerable. No one wants to be in limbo for 3 months.
Regardless, I think the principles are sound. I can't imagine there's another 12,000 person company with such a solid group of employees from top to bottom, and it's due largely to the almost maniacal process of assuring the "standards" aren't lowered. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5What are the perks? Free Google search?
- str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3experience is worth more then a degree IMO. I have a degree and I can honestly tell you that there are lot of complete idiots with the degree, but no experience and they get hired and very quickly fired because they either didn't learn the proper methods to do things, or they just know nothing within their field (as a result of universities priding theory over actual hands-on work). Sure they can probably recite the dates and inventors of some of the technology, but they're clueless when it comes to using or managing it.
- webRat, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Ditto
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2For the jobs I applied for, they didn't HAVE anyone to do them. One position needed someone with both broad and deep experience in networking, server architectures, site preparation, and experience doing this at other companies. No one of college-age could possibly have physically spent enough years working in the real world in these areas to pull it all together. That's why I was cheezed that they dicked me for being 'too old'. Though they didn't say it out loud. But basically they wanted a low 20's age guy with 5-10 years experience in this. Good luck, HR *****.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Thanks for the laugh. You simultaneously call yourself a genius not only at getting grades, but in practical stuff too. And then you call your self an "expection".
- kaiserh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I wonder what will happen when Google starts cutting back on their benefits. Every company eventually hits a bad time and these fringe benefits are always the first to get cut since they have a high cost. I was told my company 20 years ago had lavish company picnics and beer stocked refrigerators, but no picnics or beer anymore.
- daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3You see, not all engineers want to "get rich working for Google." Alot of engineers just simply like doing stuff they like most and get paid reasonably for it. People who join a startup or found their own might not be interested in the technology but rather on how to get rich quick. That takes time, effort, and ***** of risks. This might interest you but not people who just want to work on things they learnt and now worry about the business side of things.
Why is it hilarious again? I don't see Microsoft hiring people without degree easily especially when Gates dropped out of college. Remember the top rule of a corporation is that your boss doesn't need to know as much about technical details as you do. That's why he hired you. - cheston97, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I don't know who started this rumor about Google only hiring PhDs... it's simply not true. They hire many, many people with a mere BS, including me. It's their interviews, not their degree requirements, that people should worry about.
- mstoneburner, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Wow that never gets old.
- psykiv, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2A nice sign-up bonus with a clause that says you have to give it all back if you quit within a certain amount of time? Or something like that?
- bucketgirl, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Dugg down - YAWN.
- smackhero, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2for some people, money isn't everything. that's why people opt for lower salaries to work at Google. it's a better work environment where people are actually passionate about their work. you're also guaranteed to be in much better company.
but hey, keep chasing that buck if that's what makes you happy. - kabewm, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Between 70-80% of what the industry usually pays.
Then again everyone gets 25% of the time for themselves to do their own project. - Homunculiheaded, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I dugg you up because obviously you have some good insights into Google that the article doesn’t.
That said I find that whenever any organization explicitly tells you something, that thing is always false.
Most of the committees I’ve worked with or served on have always said that absolute consensus is impossible and unnecessary, but the reality is that the loudest, most stubborn person in the group won’t let it go until all dissenters finally just give up. What happens during that 3 month limbo is that the rest of the committee is worn down by indecision and stubbornness until they finally arrive and an answer out of exhaustion. Doesn’t mean that the person they choose isn’t excellent. But the thing ensuring Google has the brightest is the name not the hiring process.
I’m not saying that your wrong, you work for Google and I don’t, but I'd give it a few months before saying that the quote is ‘100%’ wrong. - smackhero, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1um, no. they _are_ trying to make their employees happy, because happy employees are more efficient and return better results. otherwise they could just require more hours and force their employees to do overtime like lots of companies do. instead, google employees work long hours voluntarily because they're passionate about their work and are happy to work there. it has nothing to do with assimilating you or whatever.
of course an employee is part of the company, and happy employees are naturally loyal and productive. if you consider treating your employees well and keeping them happy as manipulation then you're seriously confused. and you must have some twisted ideas about employment if you think that having a rewarding job and being truly passionate about your work--not just being motivated by the accumulation of wealth--is bad or wrong. everyone ought to strive to find work that is fulfilling to them and work in an environment that they enjoy working in.
i don't understand how anyone can construe fostering a positive work environment and employer-employee relationship into some kind of sinister plot to swallow one's livelihood. - HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I have no evidence that Google has "exacting standards". That may have been true a long time ago, but I know plenty of below-average engineers who got jobs at Google in the last 2 years.
- leohart, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1All generalizations are dangerous, even this one. - Alexandre Dumas Père
- smackhero, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1i don't see how building close relationships with your co-workers is a bad thing. i'd love to work with all of my friends, and i'd hope that anywhere i work in the future i will become good friends with my co-workers. google has a positive environment that people enjoy working in and they make their employees' happy and comfortable. what is wrong with that? just because google also benefits from happy employees doesn't make it somehow manipulative or undesirable.
they can't force you to socialize with your co-workers outside of work. and there's nothing stopping you from having a social life outside of work. one of my close friends from high school works in their advertising department and she loves it there. i'm sure she's loyal to the company, but that's just the natural result of their treating employees well and making the company a great place to work. - smackhero, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1well, duh, that's what defines a top school--that they produce high quality graduates.
of course you can find talented people in other places, but your chances are significantly better if you go with graduates from top universities. that's just common sense. what are you suggesting, that the top tier schools on average don't produce any better job applicants than lower tier schools? - dysonlu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The football team has trials, summer camp and all. Google should test and evaluate their candidates in a similar fashion, not just dismissing people because they don't have the degree. But I don't know, probably Google receives tons of resumes and they just needed a quick and dirty filtering scheme.
- Elliuotatar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Give them a few days to accept the offer? What a bunch of asstards. What stops a prosective employee from simply accepting the offer and then jumping ship the minute google says they're hired?
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