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- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -14/+110There's a woman that goes into my girlfriend's starbucks, asks for a cup of ice, and then takes it over to the bar, and fills it up with milk (which is intended to be used as a coffee additive).
That's theft of services. Sure, all the things she's using are supposed to be 'free', but they're provided _as a service to customers_. I'd have no problem seeing her arrested.
How is what this guy's done any different? It's one thing if you do it once. But this guy (and the woman above) have been doing this ***** FOR MONTHS. That's not right. - thegreatsam, on 10/12/2007, -10/+94Read the article.
"Note that unlike other cases, he was not charged with unauthorized use of a computer network. Instead, the premise for his arrest is that he used Brewed Awakenings' free WiFi network without buying anything from them."
Basically, Brewed Awakenings said he was trespassing, not that he was "hacking" their computer network or anything. They are perfectly within their rights to call the police and ask he be removed. - cbingel, on 10/12/2007, -20/+88Stupid. The onus is always on the provider to enable or disable security. If someone circumvents that security, then it's a crime, but otherwise, it's just using what's there.
- CosmicJustice, on 10/12/2007, -6/+72"personally if someone sets a tv up on the corner and i sit there and watch it, i dont see what the problem is"
Bad analogy. A better analogy is the TV is in a sports bar and you sit there every day watching it and never order anything. - itsmrdumass, on 10/12/2007, -15/+76Just filter his MAC address if you don't like him there.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+63Exactly. Kick him out of the shop, but I don't see how anyone could be arrested for that.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+58From The Article: A computer expert told KATU News there is no way to know if someone is using your wireless connection without permission.
Wow. Just wow. If you bought a wireles router anytime after DHCP, you can get a DHCP clients table, with MAC addresses, hostname and IPs. What a complete moron. - pype, on 10/12/2007, -5/+58No Shirt
No SSH
No Service - Otto, on 10/12/2007, -2/+41There is indeed more to this story. The guy was using their wifi for months. He'd park in their lot, use the wifi for a while, and leave. Never got out of the car. They got a policeman to make him leave once and he kept coming back.
The short of it is that they did tell him he wasn't welcome and he came back anyway, so they busted him for trespass. - angelp, on 10/12/2007, -7/+44That's rude.
- mxpxpx, on 10/12/2007, -10/+39yes and no, i fully agree, although sometimes the courts dont see it as that.
personally if someone sets a tv up on the corner and i sit there and watch it, i dont see what the problem is, same thing as long as he wasnt changing settings, or altering anything - thegreatsam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26@Chewie67
"That's fine. They can ask him to leave, and call the police if he refuses. Being arrested, however, is another matter. Unless he resisted arrest, I can't see how they could legally charge him with trespassing. It's a public place, owned by a private company. Unless they gave him fair warning that he was not welcome, they have no grounds for arrest."
He was talked to by the police and asked to leave. He then came back and used it again. THEN the police arrested him.
Talk about (his) stupidity. I really don't feel sorry for him. - Bullsnot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+23You also don't pay rent on the building, utilities bills, or the cost of the loan the business owner took out to buy the table and chair you are using. You are also taking up space that could be used by paying customers.
If you don't like the cost of the coffee then don't buy it. But freeloading on something meant for customers that do pay is just lame on you. - slantyeyed, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25read the article, he would park outside the coffee shop and surf in his car
- thegreatsam, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20The police asked him once to leave. He did. Then he returned. THEN they arrested him.
Talk about stupidity. - mage1129, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17I hope they do ask you to buy somethnig or get out, no system can tolerate constant abuse. Stop being a parasite and buy a stick of gum or something.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Also, in the story
"Brewed Awakenings manager Emily Pranger finally tired of his presence and called 911. Police came and told Smith to surf elsewhere. After returning, he was taken into custody and charged with theft of services."
He was asked to leave, then he came back. Trespassing. - jshirley, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20I can't agree that this is the coffee shops fault, and this hits home for me. I am a regular at this coffee shop and this is just stupid. It is painfully stupid of the guy, as they asked him to not abuse the internet access. The internet access there is advertised for use of customers only (and you don't have to buy anything, as long as you are with someone who does buy something.)
The girls at this coffee shop are extremely nice and accomodating, and this guy was purely abusing that. It is theft of service, because there is a finite amount of bandwidth and he is reducing the available through put of customers that are using the service.
People can make the argument that someone should lock down their internet access if they don't want people using it, but why is it the responsibility of the coffee shop to prevent people from using it responsibly and legitimately. By this same token of logic, if you see a sprinkler at your neighbor's house you can just move it to your house because they should padlock it. It is theft of service, as he was not entitled to use that service. The same goes if you start unloading your garbage at a stores dumpster. It is a misdemeanor, but it is still a greedy and selfish offense.
Since I live in the area I'm going to make sure to never employ him and tell people I know that he is a selfish bastard, if the opportunity arises.
And, for a technical detail, the staff at the coffee shop do not know anything about it. They utilize a commercial service that manages the internet access. If someone on the network is being selfish with the bandwidth, all users will feel it. - moracity, on 10/12/2007, -16/+31You're kidding right? So you won't mind if I come into your house and help myself if you leave the door unlocked? Or help myself to whatever you may have accessible outside you house? Maybe I'll stop by and throw some steaks on your grill. You would certainly be well within your rights to call the cops. I lean libertarian, so I would argue that you have the right to shoot me as well.
Sorry, theft is theft. There is no such thing as a "burden of security". - Bullsnot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Yeah, the coffee shop should have to inconvenience the rest of their customers just because of this parasite.
- ArchieAndrews, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Nice rationalization. Your option, if you don't like the prices, is to shop elsewhere and that includes the perk called wifi.
- mage1129, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15on what grounds? If they asked the guy to leave and he didn't it becomes trespassing. This guy has no legal legs to stand on.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15"I don't think so, in fact I find it fair play that I don't pay 5 bucks for a five cent cup of bean water."
Then why are you going there? For the FREE WIFI FOR CUSTOMERS ONLY? It's like going to the movies, you're not allowed to bring in outside food, if you get caught, then you're asked to leave. Maybe it's because of ***** like you who take up space without paying for it that makes the coffee $5 ? - Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12@ bitterCAMPARI
I've never seen a $5 cup of coffee or "bean water" as you like to describe it. I've seen a large frappuchino with all the toppings for almost $5 but never a regular coffee for that much. Even Starbucks has coffee for $1.25.
Don't be a cheap ass. This guy deserved what he got. He was taking up parking in their lot and stealing a service that was intended for customers. People like him (and maybe even you) probably tip the bare minimum at restaurants, if even that. - merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19Free for customers != Free for the world
- aeix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12The original article on KATU.com says he was in the cafe's parking lot.
- MrSunshine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10merreborn: that woman should get arrested for mixing milk with water. Eww.
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -11/+19"If you bought a wireles router anytime after DHCP..."
Way to pretend to be an expert, while proving that you don't know *****.
DHCP is years older than wifi. - psyon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11In this case, I believe the man was in their parking lot, and thus the business was well withing their rights. In the case of people who sit in the street or on the sidewalk, I would say the business owner is SOL. If you had a sprinkler system setup in your yard, and it sprayed on the side walk, you can't tell people not to play in it.
- FuzzyCat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9
"Brewed Awakenings manager Emily Pranger finally tired of his presence and called 911..."
Isn't 911 for emergencies? Was it really that urgent? - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12There's a Brewed Awakening in Lake Havasu City, where I used to live (not sure if it's related at all). The owners there had no problem with people using their wifi. In fact, they had computers set up in the shop that were free to use by anyone (so long as they weren't smelly or didn't hog the systems).
For a connection that costs a business maybe 50 bucks a month, I think it's much better for business that they allow users to use the wireless connection (much less arresting them), and only ban ones that abuse it. It's not like it's that hard to ban a MAC address, and most users don't know how to spoof one. - Wahttehhog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9But do you go to the same gas station, daily, for months?
- bacon_skoda, on 10/12/2007, -11/+18what about loitering?
- Vogateer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6They had already did that. The police asked him to surf elsewhere, then he came back again, and that's when he was arrested. He had fair warning, and did it anyway. Sounds like the guy had some other problems, though.
I really don't understand why people would have any problem with this. Do people really think that anyone is entitled to someone else's Internet connection? A guy wants to provide a service to his customers, and his bandwidth is being used by someone who is not a customer, taking away bandwidth that is meant for patrons. You let multiple people do that and soon you're stuck with a horrible connection for your customers. Why on Earth should anyone tolerate that? The business owner was beyond patient and was basically forced to call the cops twice to get the guy to stop. - ThatsUnpossible, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@iamcitizen
Although a good wifi router will give you MAC addresses of those wireless clients using it, you can't rely on DHCP for tracking. DHCP doesn't have to be used. Most wifi routers default to 192.168.1.100-150 for DHCP addresses. Just set a static config on your laptop for ip=192.168.1.200 (anything out of the range of normal dhcp), and router address of 192.168.1.1, and you'll find many you can surf on without notifying their DHCP server. - sirket, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Wicketr- By changing a WEP password for customers every day, is being a pain and an inconvenience to them. This way only he is affected.
Then use a web based proxy with a login/password only available to customers that changes daily. No changing keys or anything- you buy a cup of coffee- the password is on the receipt- you browse the web- get prompted for apasword, enter it and you are done. No muss no fuss. It's called NoCatAuth and it's been available for years. - masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12The guy was pretty shady. He was a sex offender that had been using their internet from his car for three months, without buying anything.
That said, the Wi-Fi ~was~ free, and they always had the capability to require a username/password that they could give you upon purchasing something. - WackyT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Musters' is a complete idiot without compare.
- aeix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6There is a Vancouver, WA... It's across the Columbia River from Portland, Oregon.
Try Google maps, it really works! - shumacher, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8For some reason, I can't bring myself to do that. I usually get something - generally a soda. Until I realized how stupid that was, long trips were an increasingly difficult fight with my bladder.
- mage1129, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8No, because you don't pay for the air. This is like someone running an extension cord from your house into theirs.
- slantyeyed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6great idea, but while it may not be difficult to implement, you have to try to explain the process / concept to non-technical people . . . who will in turn have to further explain the process to other non-technical people (ie customers) . . . it'd be a pain in the ass for a teenage cashier to have to keep on trying to explain how so-and-so can't use the wifi and that they have to look at their register receipt for info over and over and over again (probably an easy to see daily sign would help)
- TubaTechno, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Marked as inaccurate because he was arrested for tresspassing.....stores have the complete right to do so.
- duke, on 10/12/2007, -10/+15Arrests for loitering have been unconstitutional ever since the Papacristou case decades ago. It's called the "void for vagueness" doctrine.
- rob247, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Just some extra info. I live in Vancouver, and what was missing from that story was that when the cops pulled up and confronted him, he was surfing craigslist erotic services (I guess that qualifies as "almost-porn?". Also, the manager had asked him numerous times to leave, and he would drive off and then come back again.
- trunkster, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8In all fairness the cops did tell him to leave and he came back. After the cops came I would have been like f*ck this and find another coffee shop... in a different city.
- lowridah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5you can't park in the street there. I've lived right by there, and there's no street parking. He was in their parking lot, for sure.
- Cander, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It is nothing like that. You aren't paying for the air others are breathing.
- Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Klisk,
There's a difference between sticking it to "the man" and just being a cheap ass dick.
I don't think a small coffee shop qualifies as "the man." - m1ss1ontomars, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5um...yeah you never checked, did you, musters?
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