What is Digg?109 Comments
- randomgeek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+30Personally I enjoy the fact that everything outside of a town is instanced. There are no noob killers, farmers, spawn campers, beggars, spammers, or loot stealers. It removes all the annoyances of online games and allows you to actually play a game with your friends and enjoy it, rather than fend off all the idiots. You can easily hook up with some people in town if necessary, or hire some mercs if you can't find anyone else. I also like the fact that doing things doesn't require 40 people, and the coordination of them, which I always found a gigantic pain in the ass in WoW.
Not to mention it has the best PvP available in any game, as well as some of the most beautiful scenery I've ever seen in an online game. - Nines, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27did you even play the game once?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25Personally I'm especially happy about the success of guildwars because I like their business model (there is no subscription fee to play guild wars; you buy the game at normal price then you play as much & long as you want). Certain other MMORPGs could learn something there, I think.
For those who've not seen Guild Wars: Factions, here's some in-game screenshots:
http://www.guildwars.com/gallery/screenshots/factions/
(And just because it's so damn good: a Guild Wars music video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvLRWKZDgVM
High-res version (98MB WMV) http://files.filefront.com/FILE_VOTE/;4425088;5;/fileinfo.html ) - RichPowers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22My favorite part of Guild Wars is the fast-paced combat. Coming from a mostly FPS background, I really appreciate an RPG that involves more than standing around clicking on the GUI.
ArenaNet must also be complimented for rolling out two new chapters a year. Furthermore, these chapters add meaningful new elements to the game(no half-baked EA type crap). Hell, even Blizzard and Valve have a hard time keeping their episodes/expansions on schedule. A constant flow of new content is what makes MMOs fun and GW really delivers.
Now if only GW could introduce a new chat system that's not cluttered and spammy...
But I hate comparing Wow to GW because each game targets different audiences... - JoVoCop, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17@Anliz
Have you ever played the game? They are constantly tweaking the game and releasing new patches for it. - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16@muikano
If you think whoever has the best equipment will win I have to say it, you just suck.
I've played quite a few RPGs/MMORPGs with PVP and GW has to have the most fair PVP out of all of them and probably the best too.
When I played (I stopped playing a few months ago though I played since soon after launch for a long time) I did all the PVE stuff because I loved finding items and selling them and I missed doing that since I hadn't played Diablo2 in years but I decided to venture over into PVP (I had tons of gold, most of the good items, etc) and the ONLY items I used which were from PVE were upgrades for some weapons (Like +HP, etc) and even thos can be bought with earned 'points' from PVP.
The deciding factor is your skillbar and your team mates and when I was in a guild (We were in the top 100 IIRC) there was little to no discussion about equipment when we were planning for matches and the discussion was just basic things. Like if we were going spike we'd all choose a horn bow and some other bow with certain upgrades, etc and these were readily available to everyone.
Everyone who says equipment is the deciding factor in PVP in GW just plain sucks, go play WoW, EQ2, D2 or something. Well, if you still want to play GW go find the generic, common, easy build (Is IWAY still going ?) and start learning skills, team work, etc from that.
What the hell are you talking about gems ? They were indeed in the beta but they got rid of that concept when the game launched so unless they've brought back in the last few months I'm assuming you haven't played it in a long, long, long time.. or you suck. :o - Anliz, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21"1. NO MONTHLY PAY
2. BETTER GRAPHICS
3. Not as confusing."
Is 3 not in caps because its less important or because your caps lock key finally got unstuck after number two? - geniusj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13devindotcom,
You should try Nightfall if you haven't. It pretty much blows both the others away and is much better for the solo player or tag team setups too :) - geniusj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Exactly. I think GW's main problem is it's not easy for a newcomer to GW to figure out what you just stated. I don't think people realize the immense level of strategy involved in this game until they try to do PvP.
To summarize why strategy is so important though..
A few hundred skills per profession, two professions per character (so a few hundred * 2 skills), and only 8 skills that you can bring with you into any mission/match (you can only swap skills in towns/outposts). Most of the skills are not very useful on their own either. Figuring out ways to exploit or find the hidden power of a skill using other skills (from either your own character or team mates characters') is the real challenge of the game.
For an example of the process, or what's been done, check out http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:Main_Page .. If you read the ideas behind some of those builds, or imagine the lengths it takes to come up with some of them, you might realize that it's quite impressive. Think Magic: The Gathering in video game form. - geniusj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10PvP/GvG are the main social aspects to Guild Wars. Outside of that, I agree, it's not a very social game. It's pretty good though if you just have a friend and want to do some PvE together or something. In addition, the client is incredibly stable and fast, it exits as quickly (very quick) as it launches, and you don't feel like every day you don't play it is money down the drain.
- geniusj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9big fan of all the GW releases so far. Nightfall being my favorite.. A lot of the limitations, such as the restrictive pathing from prophecies are gone
- supperman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Unfortunately, I'd say that WoW is even more restrictive in that you're stuck with doing virtually the same thing, ie. farming, over and over again. There are only some instances that require you to go with a party. Otherwise, you might as well be playing Diablo.
- adamal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@hipdad
The amount of changes that have occurred since release basically makes most of your comments irrelavent. - Hedgefox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I like the Guild Wars series, but Guild Wars Factions is the worst of the 3 games released so far. I wonder why they choosed it, since Guild Wars Nightfall is so much better...
And, why is everyone saying "OMFG the business model of Guild Wars rocks, MMO without a montly fee"?
Remember Diablo 2? It's the same thing as Guild Wars, except that in GW the chat channels are cities where people can chat and trade and organize into groups. Granted, in the Diablo 2 chat you could not trade, but you just said "Join game X password Y" and you entered in an instanced world like Guild Wars.
Plus, I don't remember seeing a review that stated that Diablo 2 was a MMO =)
So, I like Guild Wars, but I really see this "business model" as a deja vu, rather than a new idea. - geniusj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7MiDri,
WoW and GW cater to different personality types to a certain degree.
As for Shadowbane, I was a fan of Shadowbane as well. In the end, it wasn't so much the ugliness that bothered me as it was the constant crashing/slowness. The client was absolutely horrible. I did have quite a bit of fun with it though for a while :) - Ninjab3ar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@muikano
I dont know what you mean about Guild Wars having grind. If it does, its considerably less than other MMOs. What drew me away from other MMOs is the abundance of "kill X monsters and retrieve X items" quests, and the need to spend countless hours of time just farming monsters for XP outside of a mission.
Guild wars eliminates all that by making the game more Quest based than Grind based, their quests are more fun than other MMOs, and their missions are amazing.
@JoVoCop
Like you, i like their business model, but most MMOs need a monthly fee in order to maintain the servers and provide new content, GW does that, but they do impose a fee, although technically.
Their business model is to release a new expansion every 6 months, and use the money earned from these games as their revenue. the negative thing about this is that is being that the expansion are their main source of income, they are $50 each (although stand-alone). If you want to have the fully updated world, youll need to fork over $50 every 6 months, totaling $8.33/month. Considerably less than the competition, but certainly something. Another thing is, if a newcomer to guild wars decides to play, and they want the whole world, they are going to have to pay a lot of money in one shot to be able to own prophecies along with every other expansion. hopefully Arenanet makes GW bundle packs with older expansions in it for cheaper.
All in all, GW is a great game, ad a great alternative to other MMOs - Spo8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@MiDri
WoW is a marketing bohemoth? They just came out with their first commercial. Before that, it was some banner ads, but word of mouth (or keyboard) was far and away the reason most people heard about it. - devindotcom, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I had guild wars and loved it... for as long as it took me to do the whole world. I prefer single player games anyway and played it as one. The draw for me was "no fee, huge world." And that's what it provided. I liked exploring the world and getting better gear, but once I got to the end (I think ~100 hours) I was pretty much done with it, and additional areas and dungeons held no charm for me.
- icedutah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I simply love this game! From pve to pvp play. I have never been into video games until I was introduced to this game by a freind. I'm now addicted.
- Spo8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Personally I enjoy the fact that everything outside of a town is instanced. There are no noob killers, farmers, spawn campers, beggars, spammers, or loot stealers."
Yes, all of those things are removed because it removes the multiplayer aspect, effectively making it no longer an MMO. If you're concerned about annoying players killing you and your MMO of choice is WoW (and come on, who's isn't?) then just play on a PvE server, where you have to flag yourself for PvP combat.
As for loot stealers and other problems, that's really not a big problem. Sure, you're going to get the jackasses that ninja something and hearth out, but that's happened to me once in my almost 57 levels. That's right, one time. As you get higher, you start running instances more and more with your guild, eliminating the possibility of that happening anyway.
By the way, some of the most fun experiences I've had in WoW have been from stumbling upon other players in the world and grouping up, or even (gasp!) cooperating with an Alliance player.
That's right. For the Horde. - randomgeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I don't enjoy the social aspect of MMOs very much. My experience with the social side is along the lines of "haha u r noob lawl i pwn u". Thanks, but no thanks. I don't bash on WoW. A lot of people like it. Personally, I can't stand it or it's players. That's not to say there isn't pre-adolescent ratspeak in the towns in Guild Wars, but I can tune it out until I go out again.
Guild Wars feels like it was made by people that feel the same way. They've removed almost every thing that I find annoying about other games, not just WoW, and focused on some really interesting aspects like team based PvP. Overall I find it a much more enjoyable experience.
Of course, you're free to disagree and play whatever you want to. :) - supperman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9WoW and Guildwars are targetted at totally different types of people.
Guildwars emphasises on customizing the play style of your character, switching armor, weapon to suit your style and how best to defeat your enemies. On forums, people discuss about new combinations of professions, skills and characters for a party. Due to the many different possible combinations, it is almost impossible to be prepared for all situations and you have to be kept on your toes very often, and have to come up with new strategies quickly.
WoW is for people who wants to play dress-them-up-Barbie. It rewards players who has played for years with epic weapon and armor that makes them virtually untouchable by newer players. There is some customization choices based on the skill tree, but ultimately you only have a couple of set 'motifs' that gives the best results. If you don't like to use your brain to think about tactics and strategies, you can still do well in WoW by just farming and collecting gear. Less effort, except time and energy, with guaranteed rewards makes for a more popular game. - Weakling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Great they won this price, strange it is for the weakest chapter of the three. At least I do not know anybody in the GW community that thinks Factions is the best one. But hey, being a GW addict myself (2000+ hours and counting) I appreciate any award it gets.
- theVariable, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5hipdad,
I'm not a huge fan of GW, but I did enjoy it for a time. That said, I must say that a lot has changed since the betas, which includes many tweaks and new mechanics...
Thus, your opinion isn't really valid on this matter. - supperman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Isn't this so much better? No need to have to camp out with 5 other players trying to farm that one item everybody needs for a quest. The story line can also be more consistent, ie. more immersive gameplay.
- sammysnake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I have never seen WoW advertised before except on that new commercial on TV... which I don't actually like too much.
- Remz02, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Wheres the Phantasty Star Universe love? D: There's a fun online game right there.
- kmusser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I actually just got done playing. GW caters to me because for me I do like to solo but I also like to head to town and show off my new gear or party with some friends for PvP and not get rolled. I used to play WoW and would still if it didn't take so much time. GW is short or long depending on your time and free to play after the initial purchase, I don't feel like I'm wasting money if I don't play.
Ya its not really an MMO, but I would agree with a lot of people here that you can't compare WoW and GW, they're 2 different games. You have people on GW that know every skill and spike combo, just like people on WoW that know where all their tier 2 drops in BWL. Both solid games but for 2 different people. 2x20s on GW; 3 x 60s on WoW, like 'em both. - adamal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Factions was mainly a PvP release. Nightfall is more of a PvE release.
- somekids, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I think that Guild Wars is more like a strategy game that a MMO. There really isn't any character building or item hoarding like any of the other MMOs. When playing PvP matches (especially Guild Battles or Hall of Heroes matches), a distinct strategy is necessary for victory. It appears that the developers put a deemphasis on traditional RPG elements on purpose: the most powerful weapons are often the cheapest and easiest to obtain (collector's).
- kmusser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Well said, I actually just got done playing. GW caters to me because for me I do like to solo but I also like to head to town and show off my new gear or party with some friends for PvP and not get rolled. I used to play WoW and would still if it didn't take so much time. GW is short or long depending on your time and free to play after the initial purchase, I don't feel like I'm wasting money if I don't play.
Ya its not really an MMO, but I would agree with a lot of people here that you can't compare WoW and GW, they're 2 different games. You have people on GW that know every skill and spike combo, just like people on WoW that know where all their tier 2 drops in BWL. Both solid games but for 2 different people. 2x20s on GW; 3 x 60s on WoW, like 'em both. - Ninjab3ar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@sparkmonkeyz
Although I liked WoW, I stopped playing it and went back to guild wars, not because of the subscription fee, but because of the community and the grind. At first i thought WoW was a bbetter option than GW because the outside of towns were uninstanced, and the fear of getting flanked made the game more exciting. what dissapointed me was the scarcity of people when you are outside of a town (i normally ran into about 3-4 walking fro town to town) and their lack of willingness to join your party to help with quests. because of that, i felt that the area in between towns felt instanced, even though they werent. as for the quests, i couldnt stand them. the game was full of quests forcing you to farm for hours looking for specific items. it just seems like if WoW tries to only cater to endgamers, and thhe constant desire to become lvl60 is te thing that holds in to many players, aparently it didnt work with me. im still looking forward to renewing my subscription once i get my new Mac, just to give WoW another shot. - meepus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@muikano:
As someone who read guild wars forums and played throughout beta, pre-release weekend events, and finally the first 6 months or so of Prophecies (original GW package, for those of you who are unfamiliar), I have to say that you're outright wrong.
The stuff you are saying mirrors stuff people were saying well over a year ago, and it's completely inaccurate. GW sure isn't an FPS, but it's certainly a fast-paced squad-based competitive experience in PvP. Getting all the skills is a matter of finding them and buying them. Your character can get an unlimited number of skill points, it just takes awhile to grind them out--or it did a year ago. By now, they've probably come up with an easier solution for skill points. But even if ANet hasn't, you're still wrong about that limitation... and pretty much everything else.
Everyone who reads this guy's posts in this thread, keep in mind: muikano is echoing real sentiments from dissenting players of a build of Guild Wars impossibly far from its present state. What's worse is he isn't even talking about Factions, he's talking about the first release. Please, digg him down into infinity. - YKKonMyZipper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3^ you don't have to buy both... they are different games.
- Spo8, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I really wouldn't describe it as "dress-them-up-Barbie." Players get the best gear in one simple way, running instances. Farming isn't anyone's main way to get armor, as the drop rate for items is really low and even then the chance that it's the type of armor you can use and good (I've noticed most drops are below the level or player that would normally be in the area) is much lower. I think in all the time I've played, I could count the number of random drops that I've actually kept on one hand. If someone wants good gear, they actually do have to work at it beyond going out and killing things.
I really can't see your point about older players being "untouchable" by newer ones. Of course a level 25 is going to get his ass handed to him if he picks a fight with a 60. The game is meant to be challenging and require some time investment to advance in. For example, getting to level 20 in Guild Wars (the highest, if I'm not mistaken) in less than a week just isn't going to have the same feeling of accomplishment as getting to 60 in WoW after a couple months of playing. It also depends on the skill of the player who's taking on the older players. For example, I was taking down 60s at level 54 with relative ease.
You kind of glossed over talent custimization, as it's much more in depth than you seem to think. Very few players pick a certain tree and stick only to that. For example, I'm a priest that's heavy in the Shadow talents so I can deal some heavy damage, but I've balanced that out in the other categories with some talents to improve my healing and such.
Anyway, I know that sounds massively fanboyish, but I'm just saying that you drastically simplified the majority of what makes the game fun. - dynacrylic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hmmm... looks like a decent game for me to look into and break out of Diablo 2. The duping has gotten out of hand and the economy on US WEST LAD blows. I've even grown tired of botting now.
Maybe after I finish my writings I'll have saved up enough to by GW and GW Fractions.
Said the straight man to the late man, it's time to get back to work. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3All three chapters are quite different. They take place on the same world, but on different continents, and you can access the continents you've bought the game for.
E.g. if you've bought Prophecies and Factions but not Nightfall, you can access the continents of Tyria (which is fairly traditional western rpg fare) and Cantha (which is vaguely inspired by China and Japan wrt weaponry, architecture, and culture), but not Elona (which is vaguely based on Egypt/North Africa).
If you're a PvE player and want to try out GW, I'd suggest buying Nightfall - it has almost as much PvE content as Prophecies, and has noticeably better graphics.
PvP is always optional in all three chapters, but Factions is mainly geared towards PvP content, while the two other are about equal PvP/PvE, or with somewhat more PvE content.
For me the appeal of Guild Wars, apart from not having to pay a subscription, is...
1) that it can be played both as a single player game (although online), or you can play in a party of up to 8 players (16 in a few locations). That means that if my friends are not online, I can either team up with random people, or go exploring on my own.
2) All combinations of professions are viable, and all can solo. There are no gimped combinations. You want to play as a warrior-monk or ranger-necromancer? No problem.
3) The graphics! OK, I admit it, I'm a sucker for beautiful graphics, and this game is extremely easy on the eyes. I can still be stunned by the games beauty, or the attention to detail.
E.g. check out this Phoenix Shiro'ken (a fairly common monster from Factions)
http://www.guildwars.com/gallery/screenshots/factions/gw126-lrg.php
Or these snapshots from the first chapter, Prophecies:
http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/temp/screens/desktops/tyrianvacation/gw048.jpg
http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/temp/screens/desktops/tyrianvacation/gw168.jpg - flipside3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've got all 3 and I still like Factions as a way to level up my characters. I don't think it hurt that they had a more PvP centric release. I'm not much of a PvP player, but I do think Alliance Battles are fun. Nightfall is much better, and I would have bought it just for the Heroes upgrade.
As long as they include good enhancements with each release, I'll be buying. I just wish they'd open an auction house... and more storage. - MiDri, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You brought up instancing as your big draw in the end, not a good way to compare against gw. I think it is a lack of creativity on designers part when they have to instance -- why not make the world more dynamic? Why does Lord Byran have to always be in his keep? Why can't he spawn randomly in one of 20 some odd places that he would visit in a day? *rambles on*
- Spo8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's actually my main complaint against WoW. The instances (at least for sub-60s like me) tend to be incredibly repetitive. Sure, they'll throw in a rare spawn every once in a while, but it ends up being a treat that takes no one by surprise. I would really love to see things like random ambushes or alternating boss spawns that force players to think on their feet and actually prepare instead of knowing exactly what's going on and exactly where the boss will be and exactly how to take him down. That's why I love to see unique things like the stairs event in Zul'Farak, but even that gets old after the first few times.
But anyway, I totally agree. There's nothing like running a new instance for the first time, but it just loses that spark and becomes so calculated. Heres to hoping Blizzard takes a turn for the unique in the next few patches. - bluenullity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Geez you people live in such a little world. WoW has been marketed all across the world. Hell even China got its own commercial with Coke about a year ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOSrapbPrzU
Blizzard never needed to create commercials in the US since it knew that it would bloom here like crazy until it peaked. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well, to be fair I think Factions won because it was released in 2006...
I would personally agree that both Prophecies and Nightfall are better than Factions, but then I'm a PvE player, and Factions was mostly geared towards PvP. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I too love instancing.
Instancing means less hit on framerate, no waiting to log in, never any downtime, no waiting in line for monsters/bosses to respawn, and no random people milling around selling "g0dly gear no n00bs!!!!" or talking about Justin Timberlake while I'm on an Epic Quest To Kill The Penultimate Lord Of Evil.
Maybe I'm antisocial or something, but I don't WANT random people around when I'm on a quest. I want my team, and no-one else.
EDIT; Just want to make one thing clear: I'm not criticising WoW here. I'm simply saying that I like instanced content better than persistent content. - Spo8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Maybe this just comes with being on a server with only a medium population, but I'm never distracted by people when I'm on quests. In fact, on most quests (those that don't involve going to a normal farming place like the WPL), I'm all by my lonesome. I've especially noticed this in more secluded places like Silithus and Feralas.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4The developers call it a "Competitive Online Role Playing Game" to separate it from "Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game" for marketing reasons.
Guild wars is, however, massively multiplayer, online, and a role playing game. The main difference between GW and more traditional MMORPGs is that GW has less persistent content and much more instanced content. - Evildudetx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If you though GW was boring or got tired with it to quick, then you we're out there doing stuff solo.....
As for the rest of the arguements for and against.....no monthly fee is what swayed me. I've got all 3 of the Guild Wars titles and couldn't be happier. - scyfora, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@GhostFreeman: You should really try Nightfall (if you haven't). Imo it's more polished and well done than the original, and heroes (fully customizable npcs) really add a lot to PvE play.
- scyfora, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yep, well said. In fact, it's more like a strategy _card game_. Comparisons with Magic: The Gathering are way more apt than World of Warcraft. After playing through PvE in Guild Wars, and experiencing the (somewhat mediocre - sorry, I play the game, but the story is somewhat questionable in parts) story, the game really revolves around the hundreds of skills and ten classes (currently) that make up a LOT of combinations. Even if you don't PvP, the combinations + different builds required for different situations make the game pretty unique, and very very different from WoW. I played both, and WoW was very vanilla MMO, simplistic skills, unbalanced equipment requiring a lot of grinding, nice world and depending, nice people you could perhaps find to play with. After play a lot of RPGs, WoW is really just the same old game full of levels + item collection and very little thinking. The level of social interaction in both are pretty much the same, except it's a lot easier to find a guild / people to play with in WoW.
- combatchuck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yeah. I own Prophecies and Factions, and I can't stand the storyline in Factions. Factions was designed around the PVP aspects of the game, and I prefer the RP part of the game. For PVPers, Factions was an awesome game.
- BlackFlagg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I love GuildWars. The whole no monthly fee's is refreshing and welcomed.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 109 discussions
Check out the new & improved 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is 
