What is Digg?108 Comments
- pianomahnn, on 07/09/2008, -3/+105Google ... will you please use your many billions to start your own ISP?
- Ozeki, on 07/08/2008, -2/+62The goddamn telecom market in Canada is so ***** evil...
Funny thing is that most of the time when other company (from other countries) try to penetrate the Canadian market in other marketplaces, it is seen as a bad thing (and most of the time it is) but its almost what the consumers need in the telecom market to make it a decent ***** place now... - caupolixan, on 07/08/2008, -1/+57It sucks big time when your only choice is either Rogers or Bell as your ISP.
- DarkStar3333, on 07/09/2008, -1/+20There is no need to lay more fiber, Canada has an incredible ammount of fiber allready in the ground waiting to be lit.
The real problem is that Rogers or Bell really have no incentive to upgrade there networks or install additional hardware. They have reached a happy medium of having allmost identical services and costs, the only real different is the logo on your monthly bill and "savings" you can achieve by bundling in TV, Phone, Cell into a package.
The thing most americans wont know is that Bell was owned by the Government at one point. It was public (taxes) money that was invested to install a large portion of Canada's residential infastructure years ago. When Bell was spun off as a private company they inherited the network and upto now they were doing fine managing.
Its economically unfeasable for an ISP to make the investment to build enough DSLAMs to allow them to bypass this throttling manuever.
Internet in Canada = Lowest Common Denominator - arrrapirate, on 07/09/2008, -1/+18i wouldn't sign a lifetime contract with anybody, are you nuts?
- BinaryFragger, on 07/09/2008, -0/+14We desperately need more competition.
I just checked out the Rogers website, and their 'Extreme' Internet is now $54.95. Bell Sympatico is not much cheaper at $49.95/month (including modem rental).
Costs are rising, speeds are getting slower (sure, they advertise incredibly fast download speeds, but good luck actually achieving those speeds). Internet technology is moving at a backwards pace in Canada. - dajuggernaut, on 07/09/2008, -2/+14Sadly I cant sign a lifetime contract with google... I already have one with the devil...
- ButlerMonkey, on 07/09/2008, -1/+11Will any Canadians be surprised by this? Forget about Bell's Internet service, but as a company they leave a lot to be desired.
I wonder if this negative news about Bell distract from Rogers recent negative press, you know, the other ***** monopolistic media and communications service provider in Canada? Actually it just means half the news stations in Canada will be talking about how crappy Rogers is in regards to the iPhone while the other half can talk about how Bell cheating it's customers as an ISP. - Akraz, on 07/09/2008, -1/+10"Rogers even admits to doing a bit of P2P throttling itself"
LOL A BIT? LOL
LOL..
LOL................................ - ericjohnson0, on 07/09/2008, -1/+10As so much of our lives is moving or has moved online, this little 'throttling' crap greatly reduces the choices people have. We need to stay on top of the elected officials to make sure the Net stays 'open' and Neutral.
Here is one nasty little device which is specifically designed to 'gag' traffic.
http://thesaloon.net/blog/_archives/2008/6/27/3765 ... - pinoylife, on 07/09/2008, -1/+10Credits to google in supporting net neutrality and against isp monopoly.
Temp. solution to Evil -Bell's throttling:
"Set your bittorrent port to TCP/1723, and put any DHT or tracking on UDP/500, UDP/50, UDP/51."
-www.dslreports.com/shownews/How-To-Defeat-Bell-Canadas-Throttling-95919 - whoreable, on 07/09/2008, -1/+10I for one, welcome our Google ISP overlords.
- JasonCox, on 07/09/2008, -0/+8Dear Google,
Can we use some that dark fiber you've been buying in bulk?
Signed,
Residents of North America - HiddenCanuck, on 07/09/2008, -0/+8Only thing worse than the telecoms companies is the mobile phone networks. Both of them.
Anyone who has lived in any other country knows how we are getting screwed 17 ways till Sunday in ways that competition has removed from other areas. - Emachine, on 07/09/2008, -1/+8Google should threaten to block access to it's search engine and services for bell canada customers. Throttling would disappear very quickly.
- Corman420, on 07/09/2008, -0/+7Every wireless provider, ISP, and satellite/cable provider should be slammed in Canada.
We pay $75+ amonth for each of these services...
And system access fees? WTF? - nickert0n, on 07/09/2008, -0/+7Dugg for Google standing up against *****.
Madd Respekt - oxymoron69, on 07/09/2008, -0/+6The choice between Bell and Cogeco isn't much better.
I had cogeco cable internet once, it was 10mbit/s and I blew through my cap in less than a week.
They terminated my account because what they call unlimited is actually 60GB.
My new ISP Teksavvy.com actually gives you either 200GB or real unlimited for $10 more. - LemonHerb, on 07/09/2008, -0/+6Google should just block traffic from the ISPs that do this, maybe some of the other major sites on the net could do the same. Once everyone leaves those ISPs they will start treating the customer like they matter and value their busines more.
- americamatrix, on 07/09/2008, -0/+5@ dajuggernaut
"Sadly I cant sign a lifetime contract with google... I already have one with the devil... "
...I didn't know the devil worked for Comcast - seb9898, on 07/09/2008, -0/+5Do not give them (Bell) ideas, they are dumb enough to say:
"Well, we don't need Google! We're already partner with Microsoft and we have our Sympatico MSN Search! People won't notice!" - killdashnine, on 07/09/2008, -2/+7I'm with pianomahnn ... Google should build their own ISP, or even better a replacement to the entire Internet.
- getsaf, on 07/09/2008, -0/+5There are many valid reasons to use a device like that.. Of course it's not designed to run on an ISP to filter all of it's clients, but for a college dorm, it would be very useful.. It's not going to "cap" P2P traffic, it simply assigns priority to more important traffic like HTTP or VOIP etc.. It's simple QOS.
It's another thing when an ISP decides to cap traffic because when you sign up for service it's generally a package with an assigned speed 5mb/s max, but if they are capping your P2P traffic at 1mb/s then you are not getting what you paid for. - nickert0n, on 07/09/2008, -0/+5I have Shaw Extreme-I in Alberta and I easily pull 5 Mb/s D/L
amd 2 M/b/s U/L on a speed test.
If I get a good set of seeders my torrents usually go at about 1 MB/s which is sickly fast however ONLY if I encrypt my traffic because shaw has been bandwidth throtiling with QoS for years now.
So being that said, dont cry about your ISP, Encrypt your traffic.
And before anyone pipes up that they will de-prioritize encrypted traffic aswell, know that this is a bogus claim and it is very against the law. There is no valid reson to do so therefore they cant.
Many different sockets via the internet are encrypted and even if the ISP's did do that they would lose business huge.
So rest easy, encrypt your packets.
/nerd tutorial - grepmonkey451, on 07/09/2008, -1/+6Bell forces throttling upon it's third party ISP's. If this is not an anti-competitive move by a monopoly, then I do not know what is.
Sending a note to your elected representative does very little in Canada nowadays. There are only one or two exceptions to that though, Thank God for people like Charlie Angus (rocker turned MP) and Michael Geist who have openly rallied in favor of net-neutrality and have led and have brought the issue up in the Parliament. Not to forget the smaller ISP setup here in Canada, who have stood up and resisted these monopolistic move(s) by Bell.
If you look at the big picture, then this really is just another anti-competitive move by Bell to keep the masses away from how they access their data and entertainment. Bell not only offers Internet service in Canada, but also their Satellite Channels (Bell express vu). Even if say 50,000 folks in one local decide to get rid of their Bell Express Vu setup and decide to go with downloading and watching the content they want. A very small percentage of market loss will result into substantial loss for Bell. Rogers (Rogers Cable) and Bell are in bed when it comes to a throttling setup, as wide-spread use of P2P will seriously hurt their market share in the long run. It might not be 2, 5 or 8 years. But it will happen. P2P is revolutionary. All Bell and Rogers can really do is extend the timeframe, whereby the real damage will occur to their profits.
All we really need is an ISP that let's you use your allocated bandwidth. However you wish to use it. If you exceed the 200G limit. You simply purchase more bandwidth for that month.
Resist these monopolies. They curb innovation and threaten our future as a continent. - pinoylife, on 07/09/2008, -1/+5Obviously Bell knows that we can encrypt our p2p traffic and thus program their throttling to bypass it.
buried for tutorial-fail. - Nosferotu, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4Here here - I have this fond dream in my heart that someday, Google will set up free wireless internet all across the US. Really, who would be surprised if they were already working on this?
- grepmonkey451, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4In other news:
While North American monopolies offer a stripped (dumbed) down version of broadband connection to their customers for x3 the price.
Asian ISP's are now offering "fiber" connection to a majority of the populace for less than a quarter of broadband price in North America. - winmywii, on 07/09/2008, -1/+5U.S. companies aren't much better.
- grepmonkey451, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4Seems like someone at Bell is un-digging all the anti-Bell comments
LOL wot a bunch of losers - savethejets, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4Not to mention Bell announced yesterday that soon they will start charging mobile phone customers 15 cents per incoming text message. They claim their networks are getting hammered by the increase in texting.
So Basically soon ( I'm sure Rogers will follow suit ) Canadians will start getting charged for something they ultimately have no control over. This is utterly ridiculous.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNew ... - grepmonkey451, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4we are talking P2P here
I highly doubt you get a 7MB download connection for your torrents. More like 2.5 Kbps? - daridave, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3I hate Bell, I hate Videotron, I hate Rogers. Darn it, what am I going to do ?! Change country ?! I wish some one with more power would wake the f* up and do something.
- pond70, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3BELL F- YOU
- hamobu, on 07/09/2008, -1/+4To companies, customers are nothing but an asset to be managed.
- n4tune8, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3I find Videotron (cable provider) to be reasonably good. Yes, they have download/upload limits, but if you go over, there is a maximum of 30$ you'll pay for that month, usually bringing you to the same price as the "next speed level" (which usually have a higher U/D limit too). It's like saying "look, if you'd pay the 30$ up front, you'd get more AND get it faster".
- daridave, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3PIRATE !!1!1 /ISP-imitation
- inactive, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3Pretty much the same scenario in the US.
- grepmonkey451, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3Article went from 50 diggs to 450 within an hour
I wonder if Bell actually cares about how much bad press they get for their anti-competitive (throttling) moves. - mrelusive, on 07/09/2008, -1/+4Or Shaw, though their service doesn't seem as bad (their customer service is another story).
- grepmonkey451, on 07/09/2008, -1/+4DPI affects encrypted traffic as well.
- lololol1, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3I got my first warning notice from them last week...
- kevro, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3rogers throttles encrypted traffic as well.
- justice7, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2No, it does not. Using port numbers to identify types of traffic is an oldschool approach, and with the ability to change ports easily; it isn't the most reliable. What the ISP's actually do, is read your packet header information. If it contains bittorrent header information (for example), they will throttle it. They now know what port you're using and which IP is getting the traffic and can begin choking your connection.
The only REAL way around this, is full blown encryption; but that has overhead associated with it. At this rate, though.. the overhead will still be faster than the throttled connection.
That will only work as long as only a small portion of users are doing it. Once everyone catches on, they'll find new ways of throttling the connection. It might just be an arbitrary throttling to heavy usage -- and there is no getting around that. - hakkola, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2In western Canada, most people use Shaw for their internet, and it is pretty damn good, hi speed is 5mbps, for $32/month if you have cable t.v, $41 if you don't, 6 months at $29.95 and a month free, free modem, free install. Extreme is only $10 more.month, and you get the same deal as hi speed, same 6 months at $29.95, and twice the speed, then nitro which is 25mbps but expensive as *****.
I can't complaing about internet prices, but cell phone plans do suck balls. - harmil, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2Had they been able to pick up the wireless spectrum they were bidding on, I think they would have, but if it came down to a real bidding war, they knew the telcos would pony up more cash than even Google could.
Now the question is: how does Google get the last mile? Wireless isn't going to happen. I've been wondering if the future might be in powerline-based transmissions, but there are still many glitches to work out in that. - Nosferotu, on 07/09/2008, -1/+3Google is the angel of the internet. They are the company which stands as the avatar of internet culture, and what the future SHOULD be.
- combatgoose, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2Great article.
I personally have great disdain for Bell after it was discovered there was physical damage to the actual line going to my house and they said they would not fix it. Compile that on top of the fact that I am over the maximum 5km distance from the 'source' and that they are unwilling to change us to the same line that the people next door use, and you get some extremely bad internet, all the while paying the same price everyone else does, while getting a max download rate of 120kbps, on a good day. - mr0nine2five, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2I'd love to see another option for global internet connection. DYI open source hardware and software wireless stations. of course i know nothing of the systems involved in such a massive undertaking...
- corbanbrook, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2FTA: 'Large incumbents Rogers and Telus have no problems with Bell's approach (Rogers even admits to doing a bit of P2P throttling itself)'
What confuses me is how Bell is the company that is always talked about in regards to throttling P2P when it was rogers in fact that started throttling first. In fact, months in advance of bell and has by far a stricter throttle in place. I switched from rogers to bell after finally being fed up with the throttle, and Bell was fine for about 6 months before they finally adopted sandvine technologies. -
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