What is Digg?87 Comments
- intent, on 10/12/2007, -4/+85Why, in a society where equality is strived for, are we still bound to the whole conception of tokenism? Just because there aren't any [insert minority here] doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. Don't include minorities for the sake of having token figures.
- Otto, on 10/12/2007, -3/+52Short version: Google Australia = Sausage Fest.
- aristotle1990, on 10/12/2007, -2/+37Amen. This is a ridiculous, neo-sexist attempt to apply political correctness. I couldn't give a ***** about the sex of employees. Who gives a ***** if there aren't any female workers at Google? It's all about the quality of engineer in question; gender should not be a factor in hiring. If a female engineer's qualified, hire her over a less qualified male engineer. If a male engineer's qualified, hire him over a less qualified female engineer. It's all very simple.
- goat77, on 10/12/2007, -4/+37If women choose not to work there, leave them be.
- adam84a, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23Your comment deserves a million diggs
- rishimaharaj, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21Because we think we're obligated to somehow "make up" for past inequalities by imposing those same inequalities on members of the dominant group. Two wrongs don't make a right.
- burke, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20but three lefts do.
- Saintlink, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Agreed. Let the best man (woman) take the job. Token figures don't help men, women, (insert minority group here) or companies.
- scispaz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I think the point is that, for whatever reason, there are not many highly qualified technical women to take such jobs from any company. If you can't or don't get the background to qualify for the job, you don't really have a choice of whether or not to take the job.
- chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I love people think that having an equal number of people from both sexes (races, ethnicities, ect) is somehow better. Look, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be women engineers at google- but if there isn't enough don't give special attention to hire women. Hire whoever is more knowledgable. If you seem to have very little women applying for jobs, it's because there aren't enough women in that sector of the workforce- it doesn't mean that google is doing something wrong.
However way you slice it- don't hire an equal number men/women because you think it should be that way, hire someone for their abilities. - rishimaharaj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9From TFA:
"And the lack of females in ICT (information and communication technology) - just 20 per cent of the workforce - means gender parity is a dream unless the company does something about it."
No, the real dream is that one day we'll hire people without regard for their gender. Hiring someone simply because they are female is every bit as discriminatory as hiring someone because they are white, or male, or straight, etc. The discrimination cannot be justified because it is in favour of a perceived minority (women aren't a numerical minority). Discrimination on the basis of gender == sexism. I thought that was bad... - sdfisher, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15"This is a ridiculous, neo-sexist attempt to apply political correctness."
Not quite.
From the article: "We believe we can put out the best products if our engineering workforce has the same characteristics as our user," Dr Rasmussen says. His concern is that he will "fall short" - half of Google's users are female.
Men and women are not the same (thank goodness). Women will be more likely to see some ideas, and men more likely to see other ideas. Now I'm not saying they need 50%, 30% or even 5%. But clearly having *none* at all is a technical risk they recognize.
Having a team with variety is not about political correctness. It's also about making sure your team has a wider variety of viewpoints -- and thus, depth perception -- while still having skilled members. - philovivero, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The "don't be evil" mantra wasn't aimed at women. What does "don't be evil" have to do with Australian women not wanting to work in technology?!
On the topic of "women not wanting to work at Google," I wast just on Google's (Mountain View) campus not two hours ago, and let me assure you, there are a *LOT* of American women working at Google, of many nationalities. I have a hard time believing Australia is somehow completely different.
Meh. I can't figure out what this submitter is trying to say, and given it's wrong and/or meaningless, I don't feel a great need to go read the blog. - zbeast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8So why would they be evil if no girl wants to work there.
Last time I checked people come to company's looking for work.
You don't bonk them on the head and drag them off to your company.
I think they use to call that being shanghaied. - Tanpreet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8women have the choice whether to work at google or not. its thier decision so thier fault.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9because women are evil. they are naturally repelled by google's goodness.
- ghelton, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13and as you can see by the comments Digg = Sausage Fest
- QueenOfSwords, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Ummm... they have my resume...?
I find this one a bit hard to believe. They had a graduate event in Melbourne a year or so back and we were reasonably well-represented. - LCmidas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@dclowd9901, people who think like you piss me off. First of all, I am a minority (registered Cherokee), and I am also a woman. I am attended college--full paid--because of academic scholarships. I earned those scholarships based on my own merits. They were not needs-based, nor were they "minority" scholarships. Based on my background and the fact that I remember my parents having to use my piggy bank money to pay for our reduced-price (because we were low-income) school lunches, you'd say that I should get all sort of free rides.
Guess what. Take your narrow-minded good intentions and shove them up your god-damned ass. I don't want them. I RESENT people who say that because of my circumstances, I "need" the extra help, that I must somehow be lacking in whatever it takes to succeed. That's condescending. So do those of us who are "less privileged" a favor and STFU.
Current College GPA: 3.91
ACT score: 31 - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6i hate this rubbish about "think like a woman" what the ***** is that crap supposed to have to do with engineering? you're talking about design and sales concepts, NOT a technical feild like system engineering. gender has nothing to do with it. a well trained engineer will spot a problem reguardless of gender.
- intent, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"Why shouldn't we help boost those who start out life in a more difficult spot?"
Because we shouldn't have to in the first place. By continuing to support inequality in this form, hinderance of further efforts occurs. - Tufriast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Dude, it's Austrailia, the women are on the beach from what I hear.
So, Google should launch Google Beaches. It should tell you where the most socially attractive beaches in an area, and take you right to them. Beaches would love to get increased attention, and visitation. I'm sure guys could appreciate Beaches a lot more too from this tool. Yay. - neurokaotix, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9"and as you can see by the comments Digg = Sausage Fest"
Wrong. If Digg were a sausage fest then how come when a story about Boys vs Girls comes onto Digg then all the guys's comments get downrated into the black infinity? Clearly Digg either has a ton of women on it or there are a lot of really feminist guys. - michaelstone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Instead of just ignoring the problem of starting off equally and giving people a little boost later on, we need to actually confront the problem and make it so that people don't start off as unequally.
- cheekybastard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Another misleading title of a Digg article. It should say " Google Needs Women" .
- danatks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Hiring "qualified" people is not the answer. The article specifically mentions that women can bring different views and experiences to a company. In particular, you need women to help build systems that women will use.
Think about it, what man really knows how to think like a woman?
Males may be qualified "engineers", but are they qualified to think like a woman? Besides, if you get someone talented, you can always teach them to be an engineer. Do you think that it would be possible for a social starved nerd-boy engineer to learn how to create something that a woman would want, use or be in their general interest? Possible maybe, but certainly difficult. I would rather teach a smart woman how to be an engineer.
-- Amen sdfisher, got in there 8 minutes before me :) - SniperX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think it's obvious why..
Google's philosophy is "Do no evil", and Girls don't want to work for the company. Reason being?
Girls ARE evil. - templest, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@dclowd9901,
I understand your view-point. But isn't it possible, *just possible*, that this so-called "gap" is there for a reason? In this day and age, people aren't blockaded or discriminated from joining universities, colleges, or any other third-party training institutions. In-fact, there are opportunities everywhere for dedicated, intelligent, and motivated people to get all that training for *free* if they really *want* it.
Keyword being, "want". Maybe, *just maybe*, due to the nature of engineering, and the differences between the masculine and feminine genders, women are repelled from joining such work-force? Engineering isn't one big conspiracy to create a global-scale "No Girls Allowed" club.
These visible rifts are apparent in many other industries as well (you don't see many male cosmetologists, or make-up salesmen, do you?), however, this doesn't mean that we should go on a crusade to intimida... motivate men into joining said industries because we want the "male perspective on beauty", eh?
Sure there are outliers, in some cultures maybe more than others, but again: that's nature.
(Don't ***** with mother earth. She's got several tonnes on you; she can whoop your ass easily.)
In conclusion: People that know about computers, know about them because they love(?) them, and want to experience what they have to offer, and contribute therein. You can't force people to do what they don't want to, because *that* would be inefficient, immoral, illegal and all that other good stuff. - thewebguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5since when are women allowed to use computers
- Salmonax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3We're all familiar with the hackneyed "Micro$oft" gag, but "$oogle"? Bit of a stretch, don't you think?
- rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3On the one hand I think that perhaps Google's problem might be that they only want PhDs... as we can see in the article where it uses the title 'Dr'.
On the other hand when I was at Uni I seem to recall that there were plenty of women lecturers in CS... but I don't remember any female grad students doing PhDs or even Masters...
So if Google wants the high education standard, but perhaps that standard isn't as appealing to women as it would be to men, then they are really going to struggle. Maybe they would then need to think about pitching at the female staff at Universities and thinking about what it is that will appeal to them.
On the gripping hand, I've seen adds that I can pick out immediately as being for Google, simply because they are about the _only_ people in Australia insisting on Python skills. Why don't they go the whole hog and insist on left handed, fluent in Japanese, Elbonian* immigrants while they're at it?
*Not a real country. Your mileage may vary. Elbonia void where prohibited by law.
Disclaimer: I'd have liked to have worked at Google, but I could never get into Python. The magic underscores in method names and the clumsy way you have to pass the 'this' around ruin it for me. Whereas I think they are actually on to something with the whole indentation and absence of line termination character things (which are what most other people seem to react against). - danatks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4RTFA
- malliemcg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I am conflicted on this one.
Google want women because half their customers/users are women and therefore women should be involved in the design and development of products, as men and women do approach problems and think differently.
I typically however dislike race or gender boxing for roles. I truly believe that the best person for a job should get it, wether they be male, female, indian, skippy, seppo, pom, etal. I'd suggest to google hire people they need but keep looking - perhaps sponsor a traineeship to train someone up to the level
M
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@dclowd9901:
Answer: Because they don't have the requisite skills. End of story. - jdog1016, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Consider reading articles before blindly reacting to headlines. In this case, the article makes some decent points. For one, half of google's users are female. Therefore, having females on the team that produces google's software is vital to taking care of that half of their userbase.
- ccanni1028, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Google's slogan (or whatever they are calling it now) is not "Don't be evil". For more information, visit http://ubersoft.net/?m=20060414
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@dclowd9901
how are women disadvantaged in any way shape or form? stop confusing the subject with people in 3rd world countries. here in australia women have every opertunity men have to get an engineering degree. the government pays for anyones degree interest free.
there is zero entry barrier to women taking up any degree they want.
the bottom line is desipte a huge advertising campaing in recent years women are just not interested in technical careers, and the small amount that do go down that path just haven't choosen to work at google. it's a non story.
fyi i live in australia and there is a shortage of skilled engineers, google just needs to learn to compete for staff more. it's clear you have no grasp of the situation and just like to mouth off like some pesuo intellecutal
you need to stop dribbling such PC crap and drop the catch phrases you are parroting. - lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It is a nerd job and guys tend to be nerdier than girls.
- galatians, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1At the end of the day, I'm sure you'll all agree that its important that we appoint the best man for the job, regardless of sex.
;-) - barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@dclowd9901
Im from a lower class home what you are saying is *****. I dropped out of high school, pulled up my boots, went to the library, studied everything, I am now better off than most high school graduates. Where you grow up does not determine how you grow up.
"Because it just bridges the gap between the different races and/or cultures with that infamous digital divide. To come from nothing and becoming an engineer for Google is a huge leap that few white males are asked to make, whereas Google has the power to help minorities and people in less fortunate circumstances find ways out of those circumstances"
Are you saying that minorities can't make that leap without a boost?! are you racist? - templest, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Mathematical Proof that Women are Evil:
Women = Time * Money
"Time is Money", therefore:
Women = Money * Money, or:
Women = Money^2
"Money is the root of all Evil", therefore:
Money^2 = Evil, Therefore:
Women = Evil
!!! - Osjpr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There is all these comments bashing males as socially inept, nerds, criticising their beards etc...cut it. Women aren't magically "better" or more perfect. They can have as many undesirable characteristics as men.
- RobotCitizen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Anyone ever consider that fewer women are drawn to the tech industry because women want different things from their workplace? Maybe most women aren't too keen on being surrounded by socially inept dorks.
- barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2THANK YOU!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3You mean to tell me that companies actually hire/promote people based on their merits and skills.... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
- abandonnship, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I know that's how I chose my last job...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1no it's not a good field to work in. the hours a long the pay is ***** and it's just not worth it the vast majority of the time. look at how unpopular IT is now as a degree
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1your talking about sales and marketing no engineering there.
- alaekiefer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Right. Google needs more of the women's touch. It's not pink or bubbly or thoughtful enough. And because less women are being employed it means doomsday is near.
This digg entry does not reek of feminism at all. - Canthros, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If all you're worried about is engineering, it hardly matters what gender your employees are. It sounds like their major desire for a diverse workforce has more to do with marketing and sales decisions. That's fine, but let's not pretend that it makes *that* much difference if your fellow engineers are all male, all female, or a mix of the two.
As far as choice, doesn't everyone have the same choice as to which careers they pursue and how they pursue them? If you aren't qualified for a job you want, GET QUALIFIED. Get training, certifications or a degree or experience, whatever. If you aren't willing make yourself a viable candidate, why should anyone be willing to hire you? -
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