What is Digg?143 Comments
- BGFeltenink, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9We should just let the spammers overtake the search engine you all use? Some of you people are completely missing the point, BMW.de was violating Google's ToS. Do you get bent out of shape when they "censor" child porn? Or how about when some person's geocities account is #1 for the search term Microsoft, due to unfair method?
They shouldn't do anything?! Some of you are ***** stupid. - forgetfulca, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8It's not censoring. You seem to lose sight of the fact that google isn't a news agency. They're not a goverment agency. They are a commercial entity that owns the world's most interesting database. They can choose who to list, what to present, and how to present it. If they decide someone's manipulating their information in a way that positions them unfairly to others its no skin off their nose but it IS very good common sense to penalize bmw.de for it. If they police things properly, the quality of the database goes up, and google's visitors are assured that the data is reliable. Anything else would be bedlam.
- r©ain, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Being a Chief Web Application Architect, I know many ways of spamming or tricking web spiders into indexing 1000x the pages that actually exist, hell, back in 98, when I fist got into doing what I do, one of my first things was creating an entire "spider portal" for a small potato webstore... that site had over 50,000 page results on Yahoo (king of the heap at the time), while the actual content consisted of no more than 20 pages.
Now, I never got banned, in fact, I turned the thing off after gathering metrics. Because I knew sooner or later someone would find out and get the site black listed from Yahoo. But from that exploration and experimentation, I was able to devise a system that works, still works and is completely above the board.
So let this be a lesson. Cheap tricks and hacks are just that.
Use them, invent them, share them. But don't rely upon them.
And something as obtrusive as gateway pages... that's so old school, I already knew about that approach before I devised my system, when I was a n00b. And I knew enough to stay well away. So, if I was VP of BMW.de Online, I'd be axing some people right about now. - thetruth, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10It's not "awesome". What about when I want to search for BMW/Germany information?
Google is putting itself and its vendetta, justifiable or not, ahead of search quality and user experience. The proper course of action would have been to adjust their own search engine to compensate for the attempted exploit.
I don't see why anyone would cheer for Google for messing up their search engine any more than they would cheer for BMW for attempting to do the same. - andruzzo, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Beginning to hate Google.....
They're starting to act like another big company we all love to hate. - 7of7, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I agree with varkalav, though his methods are annoying as hell. I don't think I'm going to use google if they're going to take it upon themselves to remove websites from their listings. It's their right to screw with their results, but it's my right to not use google because their results are tainted.
- jpyun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4People who think Google is bad for doing this are IDIOTS. Google isn't doing ENOUGH to stop ***** SEOs.
- 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2WOW. HOW CAN SO MANY OF YOU BE SO FREAKIN' WRONG?!?!
BMW is alleged to have artificially boosted their rankings on Google. If this is true then it's hardly a victimless "crime." Because in doing so they forced down the rankings of all the other results managed by people who were playing by the rules.
Who gives Google the right to make these rules, you ask? Well, because this rule only affects Google and their services, they give themselves the right.
Look, people can artificially hot-link/cross-link/zippy-the-chimp-link all they want. But Google says that if you want to keep your ranking on THEIR service, play fair and don't do these things.
It's no different than if I went into a grocery store and began singing old (public domain) show tunes at the top of my lungs. I may or may not be breaking the law but certainly few would argue that the store's manager wouldn't have the right to boot my butt out of the place.
To sum up... Google is looking out for the integrity of our searches by enforcing this rule so get off of their backs, dammit!
Thank you for your time and trouble. :) - truNWA, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Google's like china...... excpet they aren't chinese
- Menoob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So Google delists BMW.de. Is that a good move by Google? Nope, because it now brings in to question the integrity of their results. Now with this debacle searches on Google are not as reliable as we once thought. If something cannot be found on Google it doesn't necessarily means it does not exist cause it can also means that its being blocked a.k.a banned. The sad truth is that we really do not know what else is being blocked by the Google. I think its a good thing that this news came forward cause now I know that Google is not as reliable as it is touted to be.
- RLJ1.51, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Tried the same search in Yahoo. Same results. BMW.DE is not in the list either.
- tnsimonson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"the sooner the web belongs to the people the better........"
Wow, populism is alive and well. Is there something about the idea of private enterprise that offends you? Do you think we should nationalize Google because it "belongs to the people?" Seriously, they are a private company with the right to do whatever they damn well please. If something about they way they do business does not agree with, please, by all means, use another search engine, but do not presume to force Google to do "the people's" bidding. - drshabazz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1NOT CENSORSHIP.
Get a dictionary. - bubbatex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1tablatronix - Google controls EVERYTHING! I have a guy in India that I work with to "enhance" websites for rankings - this is happening ALL OF THE TIME. For those here that think otherwise, get real. I think this is fine - if Google thinks they can set then rules, then plenty of people will find ways to break the rules. And don't get me started on click fraud......
We should fear Google, they are going to make MSFT look like, well, Apple before is is all over with. - chickenrob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2thetruth tells the truth. Google has sold itself as an impartial search engine. Google has the responsibility to eliminate any inappropriate manipulation tactics a company may use, but must return the search results to the correct levels. Google is a search engine and has no right to use it's power to police the Internet. I find it disturbing that Google would compromise the accuracy and relevancy of it's search system for the purposes of discipline or vengeance. However, if this is a sentence handed down from a governing body holding jurisdiction over the company who have found the company in violation of accepted business practices, that is a different story and google would be obligated to to fulfill that obligation.
- ezkiel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"Beginning to hate Google.....
They're starting to act like another big company we all love to hate."
For removing a company using unethical means of advertising?
It not like you can't find BMW just the german site got caught and hgas to pay. Lifetime is a bit harsh though. - BadDolphin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1To those defending BMW: do you not have a chain letter to keep you occupied today or something?
- Mapou, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Google is not afraid of BMW but they sure are scared of the People's Republic. They know who their masters are. ahahaha...
- synystar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's hard to believe anything I read on Digg these days, and I haven't read all 100 or so comments, but this seems simple. "IF" Google is skewing search results they have crossed a line that should not be crossed period, no matter what the reason. "IF" BMW is attempting to influence Google search results in this manner then it is unethical and the company gains a negative image. Companies don't operate this way, and if they do they will lose customers when thier actions are publicized. Google does not need to punish anyone. When google bombing caused a search of "failure" to show Dubya's biography as the first hit Google responded with a link to an explanation for these results. Why wouldn't they do the same here?
- ZogDog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Okay, let's see if some people can read and understand this:
1: Comparing this issue to anything other then what it is, like say China and the censoring over there, is purely idiotic and shames me you frequent the same sites I do. How in the hell are you comparing a government asking a business to abide by their rules? Hmm, Nike abides by Chinese law, Microsoft abides by Chinese law and any business inside any country abides by their law. Google abiding by their laws is what every other country does.
2: BMW.de broke the rules and they were punished. Anyone disagreeing with this needs to look in the mirror and see where your moral obligations are. Obviously you don't care about rules and if other people are breaking them. What if some porn company 'hacked the planet' and made every search result for 'Nintendo Revolution', 'Hurricane Katrina' and 'Santa Clause' point to their porn web sites? Would you have a problem with it then if Google did the same thing to them? The problem is not the punishment, the problem is morality of the company and what they did. Google was obligated to their business partners to rectify a problem which jeopardized results, which their revenue stems from.
3: If you're still reading this and are upset with my points, remember two things. Google is not censoring, they are punishing a company for breaking rules for which they, a multi-billion dollar company created. Don't mess with a billion dollar companies rules or bend them, Google has power, they aren't some simple entity to sit and let people do what they want. Number two on my overview, stop comparing this to China, it's not related in anyway you politically challenged people!
That's it, I'm done *steps down from his soap box* - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@ssarkici
did you rtfa? did you see http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/2006-02-01-n31.html ypu should be able to understand what happened. the guys at blog.outer-court have made jpgs to let you understand things easily
they are cheaters, and that's the end of the story. - rhizome, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2you're always going to get people complaining about some company or other not adhering the that person's idea of what their ethics should be. google has a stated policy on this behavior and bmw.de paid the price. "don't do the crime if you can't do the time"
- ShaDoWwork, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2starts with this and ends where..................
losing my vote as well
the sooner the web belongs to the people the better........ - godkar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Last time I can remember, if you did something wrong, you would be punished... If anyone is complaining that Google should not punish BMW then there is something going freaking wrong here...
- d03boy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2if you think this is harsh, what about the people who want some legit results? if google allows anything like this to happen then the whole point of the search engine is skewed and unbalanced, you might as well watch commercials for your searches
- ewankenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"If you search for legos you expect to find the lego company website in the top position, if you search intel you expect to find intel's website, but a search of bmw resulting in bmw.de at #1 is a problem? ToS violation, yeah... but that's pretty much it. It's not like anyone makes BMWs except BMW itself."
If you read the article they were improving their search ranking for Gebrauchtwagen (used cars). - Cyberdactyl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Unless something has changed in the last few hours, I see no effect. BMW related pages come up with even the most vague search.
- Erty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In theory this is wrong, but it impacts the search results. They should've given them a sharp warning and dropped them to whatever they were supposed to be at, imho.
- count_z, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Delisting bmw.de entirely is BS. If they just gave them a page rank of zero that would have been more than enough to "punish" them. If they're delisted Google is basically saying that they don't exist (as far as Google is concerned)... wait, but only www.bmw.de does exist... so Google is basically saying that you can't trust their results.
So if you can't find a page does that mean that it doesn't exist or does that mean that Google delisted them? One way to find out is to check with another search engine... but if you have to double check your results with another search engine, then why would you use Google in the first place?
SEO isn't "cheating". A search engine index YOUR page and contructions its results as a result of what it finds. You aren't going out and hacking google.com to change your page rank. Yes, SEO can be a giant pain when all of your searches for something result crap or commerical links... but it's Google's job to create the best rankings (for a long time Google was very anti-blog because they hated how they *bleeped*-up their search results because of the link affinity).
Stuff like this hurts Googles credibility because it means that they aren't being impartial or neutral. - dille, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Ok what the hell is going on... First the China case and now this. I'm starting to get a bit worried. I mean if a search machine starts to play god and decide what I can see and what not it is gonna be completely useless service to me and also one that I cannot trust. Instead hurting BMW I think Google is shooting themself in foot... Can't believe that some of these people actually go and cheer for Google without actually thinking about the big picture. Lowering their pagerank is imho OK, but removing all hits is completely out of line.
- tablatronix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I thought google NEVER hand touched their page ranking system.
I thought it was their policy of non evilness. - KAMI_no_kodomo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I was even more thinking:
Google have to start making also reqyuests for not-google-ip's whit 'random browser 's' (automatic) for loking if they get the same as the google bot gets and if not auto-baning that pages and putting the ranks down....
Are there google employees here? Who can put this idee higer up in Google? - cannew, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i just tried "bmw" on google search and i got the bmw pages. are you sure is not a bluff?........
- rm999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"seriously, google is a good comany put people are paranoid about them. they dont have anything against bmw because just google search it. Also i hate people not linking to direct pages, why shamlessly promote your blog? If it is blocked i want googles explanation"
RTF Blog, there is no official explanation, but it is clear enough if you follow the link. Search for "bmw germany" and bmw.de won't come up. BMW's german site was doing some things that broke Google's rules, so they got delisted. Simple enough.
Personally I think google is hurting its own results with such a penalty. Their goal is likely to send a message, but their result for "bmw germany" is now far inferior to yahoo's. Not a big deal maybe, but I think it is going against their mission of providing the best search possible. - 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0P.S. What ezkiel said. ;)
- ybnormalman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0GooglePWNED!
- corkster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=bmw&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=
- wetelectric, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0ok corkster (1) beat me too it....but wtf?? --lame
- Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0BM'WNED
- madeingermany, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0haha, http://www.bmw-motorrad.de is now the first result, which is bmw motor bikes ;)
- Hindu_Wardrobe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0PWNZ0R3D!!!
Dude that is frikkin hillarious - YamahaSteve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Personally, I think BMW shoudl not have been intentionally breaking the "google rules"... on the other hand I say Google has lost some its integrity in my book... BMW should make sure that anyone who works for google in the future can never buy a new BMW...
I guess it is googles search result database and they can do what they want, but I am little disappointed... - stimpack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Good move Google. Spamming gits are spamming gits even if they are big companies.
- ting, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Nice move. This is one of the brightest characteristics of Google and the ppl. behind it - idealism. If they know what is good for them, they won't lose it with the time and money coming.
- q3ctf4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0BMW site:.de
mercedes site:.de
That's funny. - OmegaNine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0And just when I thought there was no hope for the G
- cjhowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You idiots! Google indexes the worlds information so that it promotes the page that is most likely intended to be viewed. When you do a search for BMW, you get pointed to BMW's international portal. That's the way any company would prefer it, rather than it competing with itself for page rankings. Say a company operates in 150 languages and has 150 different websites all with the same content, just a different language. If you did a search for that company would you expect to have to sift through 150 search results to find the language that you expect. No Digg!
- 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Addendum... I meant, of course, that the store's manager WOULD have the right to boot me out of the place. Sorry about that.
- aston, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Probably Larry or Sergey woke up one morning, looked out of the window and thought: "MG folks are right, it is the ugliest thing in the universe. And it does make me look like a pimp. I'm gonna trade this baby for a Merc."
And they were right. Any measure to get the visual abuse Beamer represents off the road is legit. - bigpeeler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Repeat after me:
"Google is our FRIEND. Google is NOT TO BE FEARED. Do NOT look behind the curtain!" -
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