What is Digg?90 Comments
- mrivorey, on 10/12/2007, -4/+39I'm impressed with the detail of the reply. The denial was a given, the full explanation was unexpected.
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25now THAT'S how you run a bureaucracy
- Poco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13If they gave him the records then he would know exactly what those records were. Which would imply that they have similar records for other people. So if he published the information like "Hey look, they only track information about when I call this area code", that could be useful to someone else.
edit: Also, they may not have any records about him specifically. Maybe they can get them, but they might not have any. This would also indicate to others what sort of person they had information on. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19Quite obviously you're a terrorist or you associate with terrorists which is why they can't release this. I mean duh it's so obvious ...
- helix400, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Heh, that was a very legally polite rejection letter.
- j0keR, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20I seriously hope somebody is punished for the illegal nature of what the NSA is doing.
- mikeyeah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12What he didn't tell us that was he put a post script at the bottom of his request letter. It said: I really just need one telephone number from this girl I called about 4 months ago. I was drunk and lost her number and would like to get it so I can call her and set up a game of genital-tag.
- GotoDengo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I don't have a huge opinion on this subject... I think there are 2 pretty compelling arguments at work when it comes to right-of-privacy vs. duty of government to protect, and I'm not sure where I come down yet. But I personally don't consider a long winded "No", followed by long winded "we can neither confirm or deny", followed by "here is the standard appeals process for FIA denials" to be a detailed reply.
Kudos for him for trying, though. - billdcat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12The sad fact of the matter is that my government:
- tortures people
- spies on its citizens in violation of the law (i.e., without following the required process)
- discloses confidential information about its political enemies (e.g., identity of a CIA operative, whose husband opposed Bush's policies)
- operates secret prisons
- raids the offices of congressmen
The bottom line is that Bush, Cheney, and Gonzalez have turned the US into a fascist nation. - Poco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12...or just a form letter
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13It's a form letter. I'm sure the NSA's sent out thousands of copies.
And this isn't suprising either. FOIA doesn't apply to classified documents. - Stelex, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I really feel sorry for you americans. Your government does everything they want and you can't do a damn thing. The worst of all is they manipulate population to accept it and be happy about it. When you think twice, russians were enslaved in the days of Soviet Union but the Neocons in the USA are surely doing a better job. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe once said something that perfectly fits the situation in the USA today: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
- mushoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"remember the constitution. the thing that established this country over 200 years ago..."
That's the problem with it. At least that's what Bush seems to think, seeing how a 28 year old law seems like ancient history to him, can you imagine what he must think of the constitution?
http://www.talkradionews.com/mediafiles/4900.mp3
"I am upholding my duty and at the same time doing so, under the law and with the constitution behind me. That's just very important for you to understand. Secondly, the FISA law was written in 1978. We...we're having this discussion in 2006. It's a different world." - ZachS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9It is Memorial Day Weekend... It's sad that all of this NSA and Net Neutrality and other controversial topics are going on. Millions have fought to obtain the rights that are slowly being destroyed. Though I'm sure that if nobody fought the wars that compromised our rights we'd be way worse off than right now. An ever sadder note is that many Americans do not understand that their rights are slowly being taken away from them, and even worse, people say it's for the better.
It's just sad to think that people have died for our freedoms and we are slowly losing them.
I know this has very little to do with the article, but all the NSA/Net Neutrality relates and I felt that this would be the most recent topic to voice my opinion. - excalibrax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Merreborn you realize the FOIA's primary purpose is that if you Can Describe a classified document and state why it should not be classified, if there is not a sufficient reason for that document to be classified they release it to the public?
- carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8freedom dies to the sound of thunderous applause...
- NJOlson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10We are not making immigrants go back. We want ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS to go back. I hate when people say we hate immigration. We hate criminals!! ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE CRIMINALS!!!!!
- blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -15/+21They didn't have to attack their own people. They just had a great occasion and made it their new crusade. Bush is around 30% thanks to 9.11. Without 9.11 he probably would have been probably even lower (provided he did the same ***** without at least that prextext).
Of course since Osama Bin Laden had ties with the CIA and Bush's clan has strong ties with both the CIA and the Ben Laden family (as investors) it is no wonder that many people think this is related.
But... there is absolutely NO PROOF that the U.S. government was implied in the 9.11 attacks. Just wild speculation. Some credible, a lot of it wishful.
Now, who's taking all the benefit from 9.11 ? Certainly not the muslims, certainly not the american people. When a cop find a corpse, the first thing he asks is: who would profit from this murder? In this case we have the answer. If you sell weapons or oil, you made a lot of money since Bush made it to power. And Bush campaign is not paid for by candy manufacturers. - johndi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Here is a different angle on it. The reason they are purchasing records from the Telcos is a theoretical loophole in the privacy act. That it only applies to data the government collects. I say if you purchase it you are still collecting it from your source. Isn't it nice that we get to pay twice for the priviledge of being spied on?
http://digg.com/security/The_NSA_Snooping_Goes_Beyond_Phone_Calls_ - nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"Once people realize that this means the NSA are in fact keeping telephone records for American citizens, the United States Government will collapse"
o rly?
the whole government? how now?
it's plain now what the government is doing, it's been a foregone conclusion that nsa's got computers sifting through millions of calls, i've heard about it for years. the fact of the matter is, i haven't seen much public outrage about it. seems to me that john q sixpack lot angrier at illegal alians than he is at the NSA. - N3wtR0ckn13, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8we should all do this. let us know.
- tuna1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7So their argument is that since he can't prove that they have any collected data of him, then the FOIA clause he invoked is voided?
Since it is an Executive Order that is keeping his information classified, he should not only appeal this to the NSA/CSS Freedom of Information Act Appeal Authority, but make his way through the Judicial system as high up as he could go. Since one of the key democratic ideas of this country (or so I thought as of recently), is a balanace of power between the branches of government, if he argued his case in a court of law (most likely federal for something this "sensitive"), he could have his records released to public view.
Can any Poli Science majors confirm this? - kingamoon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7genital-tag ... That's funny.
What happened to this country... It's all TV's fault. People are too busy voting for the "AMERICAN IDOL .... tam tam taaam", or following Jack Bauer fighting terrorism, or fantasize about the most average, overrated, desperate housewive (the little mexican one) to care about their privacy being threatened by the government. One more thing, ... oh ... I gotta go ... the Sopranos is starting.
Tony for president :) - cptn_cardboard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Because we shouldnt have to.
- blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Good news! Someone is being punished: you.
- blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4In the case of toture: Believe it or not.. if the president tells his generals: DO NOT TORTURE, EVER. They will pass it on to the lowest level, and guess what. Torture wouldn't be used so widely. Military do obey orders, it's their job. Wake up. It's used everywhere, Guantanmo, Eastern European Prisons, Iraq, Afghanistan.
One case of torture is just an individual problem. What we're talking about here is the *policy* of torture. Have you even listened to what Rumsfeld and his friends had to say about that? He clearly supports it. He says the Geneva Convention is crap. An opinion that he shares with a lot of leaders who ended up their carriers abruptly 60 years ago... and really no one else.
So, short said, yes. Bush (and his counsellors) are directly responsible if Lyndie England ends up torturing poor guys in Iraq. She didn't come up with this because she learned it at her golf club. The only personal problem is that she took photographs of them. Remember what was the first thing Rumsfeld decided to do to fight this 'torture problem' ? Ban cameras, even in phones. - nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5make that aliens.
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5america kicks soviet russia's ass, in the propaganda department
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4look on the bright side, at least we don't herd the japs into internment camps anymore, or turn away boatloads of jewish refugees. no more slavery, genocide of the abo's, or jim crow, or sterilization of the disabled, or...
- carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4no, it was a polite way of saying "we don't have to answer to you, you can't do anything to us, ***** off"
- NeoNevermore, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You know what movie was pretty cool?
Enemy of the State
:-) - carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
that quote makes me shiver. any time frames on how long before fox news and the like get renamed minitruth? that'll sure be a double plus good day... - setec, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Correct. Legal immigrants can stay and are welcome into our melting pot. Illegal immigrants can go becayse they are criminals.
- glc17, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I just find it odd that you cannot retrieve information about yourself. I would fully understand if he put in a request to see someone else's records and was denied. However, can't you request a copy of your phone records from your telephone company, or am I somehow mistaken? How can something that you can obtain suddenly become confidential if you try to obtain it from a different source?
- jbus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is clearly a canned response. Why are people impressed with it?
- asplodzor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4What the ***** makes this idiot think he is so special the NSA has a "file" on him?
Because certain factors are pointing to the fact that the NSA has a "file" on _every_ American. - jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7It's not very detailed if you ask me.
It's a lot of words and cut & paste legal jargon, but no actual content.
It should actually read: "We can do what we want, Alberto Gonzales says so.... so piss off."
but before they sent the email off to him, they asked some secretary to fit it into one of their pre-existing templates, and to make it sound more official. - JohnboiWaltune, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2He should send a rejection letter to their rejection letter.
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3i wouldn't say fascist so much, as we tend not to elevate one race of citizens above another. it's more about money, which would make the US much more of a plutocratic jingoistic police state
"Merriam-Webster defines fascism as "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"" - graizur, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6So... wait, why don't we all just immigrate to a country with out an NSA?
- lbjazz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My request has been sent in. Hopefully more people will do the same.
- venom8599, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4In Soviet Russia, propaganda writes you.
- SmokeTheHun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I wouldn't be surprised to see an IRS audit in this man's near future...purely coincidental of course!
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3not that i'm saying you haven't been paying attention, but bush's stance on immigration is actually a great deal softer than that of his party, and he's been catching ***** for it openly from fox news etc. the man even speaks spanish.
it's funny, because the reason republicans hate him is the opposite of the reason why the democrats hate him, on this issue.
if one does not have their facts straight, they may not be on the side they think they are. - pianoman55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1We can't give you your records, but anyone who ever stepped foot in the NSA certainly can get then!
re:
"If we have misinterpreted your request and you have been affiliated with the NSA in some way as an employee, applicant, or visitor and are looking for records related to those activities, you may submit a signed Privacy Act request to seek that type of information." - blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The problem is that they were spying on local calls also. Hence all the legal trouble. So to 'piss them off' you could as well call your mother on the phone and shout allah-o-ackbar a few times. Then call 911 coz your mum just had a heart attack, you senseless joker.
It would be amusing to make phone calls to your friends and use all the keywords, just to see if the'y come to your door. I think they only record the source and destination of the calls (for everyone) but they certainly record and analyze the conversation itself if you have a terrorist background (like being born muslim or a simliar crime). - kshoaf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I got the exactly same letter when I asked for ALL records concerning me, not just phone records.
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1it's called "truthiness"
- Player0ne, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Feed it right back at em. start making calls to Afghanistan or Iraq or any other axis power you can think of just for the hell of it. sure it will cost ya a couple of bucks but hey just to screw with them for doing this is all the much better.
- dapperdrake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Good call blackjack! Anyone against the wiretapping isn't supporting our troops... ;)
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