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- herberts, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9This might seem weird for non french people but for us it is a logical extension of the "right to private copies" that exists here in France and extends our copyright law.
This right basically states that any individual has a right to copy a piece of work for its own personal use. Yes indeed it is legal here in France to rip an original CD or DVD for your private usage, in exchange of that we have a tax on blank media (CD, DVD, audio an video tapes, hard drives and flash memories) which is given back to authors guilds (SACEM, SACD, etc). For a blank DVD this tax is 1,92 EUR for example, and it was as much as 40 EUR for the iPod Nano (check the price difference between France and another country like Belgium for iPods...).
What the amendment about P2P introduces is a little bit different since we do not have anymore to be in contact with an original of the piece of work. What is also not clear is whether or not there will be a new tax on P2P usage, for example a few monthly EUR on your ISP bill.
For those thinking about no moving to France but just using proxies hosted in France think no further, you would still be liable under the law of the country you LIVE in as this is where your files would reside. - WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Here's my shot at a translation:
Thursday, December 22 2005, 0h02
Paris (AFP) - Wednesday night, against all expectations, representatives [from the French National Assembly] adopted amendments legalizing the exchange of files on the internet via "Peer to Peer" (P2P) systems during the discussion of the copyright law [revision] plan.
Against the advice of government officials, the Assembly adopted two amendments, one presented by UMP [Populist Movement Union] representative Alain Suguenot, and the other by the Socialist party representatives, in a public session [as opposed to a closed-door session] by a vote of 30 for and 28 against.
These amendments to the first article of the copyright law plan, an article dedicated to exceptions to copyright law, extend to the internet the exceptions for fair use, while allowing for remuneration [that's money] to artists.
This comes by way of authorizing the copying for non-commercial purposes, thus the downloading by exchange of video and music files via P2P system.
This vote brings into question the entire architecture of the law revision plan defended by Culture Minister Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres, whose heart was actually set on legitimizing technical measures to prevent the exchange of files, and penalize the circumvention of these measures.
Representative Christian Paul congratulated himself on the outcome of this vote, "result of months of work". "It's the basic element of a global license", he added in the halls of the National Assembly.
The Socialists are just proposing a system of "global or legal license", that permit, without payment, downloading over the internet.
Several representatives of the UMP including Christine Boutin and Alain Suguenot also defended this "global license".
The copyright law revision plan has caused much worry among internet users, consumer groups, journalists and universities, and has polarized the political parties. - Nerys, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Downloading Music and Video is NOT THEFT !! without proper permission it IS copyright infringement NOT THEFT. they are both wrong they are both illegal they are NOT both the same thing.
I am tired of the media companies trying to portray it any other way. is it wrong yes it is THEFT .... NO.
Stealing requires that you TAKE something from someone else. when I COPY something I am not "TAKING" anything I am DUPLICATING IT. they still retain the original and the rights to it. NOTHING is taken.
that is why its called copyright infringement. the ones who coined that term REALIZED it was not theft hence why they called it copyright infringement.
PERSONALLY I agree with this frence law IF ITS VALID (ie if its translated properly) non commercial private use should not be penalized by fine or prison term as no real CRIME is being committed.
NOW I have another issue. I think copying a movie in the theatre is wrong but off the radio is fine ? some say this is a conflict - NO. movies are not like radio they are like concerts.
Radio is like TV and I am ok with both of those being copied and shared. they were freely given to begin with so sharing should not be an issue so long as it remains free and non profit and NO ads and adsense should not count as PROFIT unless the profit exceeds the cost of running the services.
Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/ - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Can we stop with all the national crap?
I'd rather live in the USA then France, but it's kind of stupid to point out France's faults when we've got plenty of our own. Both countries are governed by morons who govern morons. - jolivierld, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5They never ADOPTED the law that outlaws Open Source.... It was a project that some deputies had.... it could be voted against... or for. France has not outlawed p2p.
- 127.0.0.1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ratsass, there's no such thing as "outlawing open-source" in France. Even North Korea would have a hard time outlawing open-source. :-)
You might want to read this : http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/09/business/openside.php .
"France parliament", why the hell do I always have to mispell something when I post a story on Digg? "French parliament", of course... - analogue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ok guys, I'm french, and what has been voted happened while the law you call "opensource outlaw" was proposed.
At the surprise of our government, the assembly voted the an amendment (law modification) which tells exactly the contrary of what was proposed.
But this is not finished yet, it will be voted again today and we will know tonight if P2P and Free Software will be out of danger, after the final reading of the law. - Tulle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Its rough but here
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kretz.biz%2Fp2p.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools - matgorb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3First, Leave that pro American stuff to slashdot OK.
Until now, the french law was quite clear and reasonable, basically, you can a do a copy, or several, of an original music CD, or film DVD for your own use. That's it. In exchange, blank media and digital portable player get a tax to pay for this "right".
Now the problem is that most people don't get it right.
What it means is that as long as you have the original in YOUR possession, YOU can do a copy for YOUR OWN USE, which imply no distribution of the copy, however, you could lend the original to somebody and that somebody could do a copy for his own use. This is what we call the right to private copy, somehow similar to the fair use in the US.
The problem is with dematerialized music, well this law they pass just apply the same principle to digital medium, as far as I understand, if you have your iTunes collection shared on the net, somebody who have access to it can do a copy for his own use because he does it from the original, but in return he cannot legally share it, because it is a copy for private use, not an original. In P2P, especially in bittorrent, you tend to download and upload at the same time, and this is not legal. The law is just basically to cover people who buy a Itunes track and want to have multiple copy on CD etc.
Now the law has been voted, but it doesn't mean it will go through, People should wait and see, and not put everything in the same box, Open Source, DRM and whatever.
I will return when I have read the minute. - mrkoje, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3For everyone that thought France was banning open-source software, your truly misinformed. Anyone who actually read the article would understand that the French were/are in the process of REQUIRING all software to impose some sort of DRM.
It seems to me that most Digg users are pathetic teenagers that don't have a clue about the realities in life. This can be seen by the whole "OMFG I'm moving to France" bit.
To everybody on digg: Grow Up. - smokie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm french and yes this is cool, but it won't last long. Because the stupid government we have is going to force the parliament to RE-DISCUSS the law so that their absurd bill about DRM pass. This is how works french democracy !! *****...
Taken from here ::http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000085&sid=avOoTq8aXkU8http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000085&sid=avOoTq8aXkU8
" The government can overturn the amendment, either by re- opening debate or if the Senate votes it down when the bill moves to the upper house. French Culture Minister Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres has asked that parliament re-open debate on the amendment today, Agence France Presse reported. "
Sorry for the mistakes i made. - vuke69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2headzoo - No, it's not theft of service, it's copyright infringement. What will you try to call it next???
- rekrapt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My wife is French... France rocks. It's their politicians that suck.
- matthewsr2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2its never been illegal to download anything, there hasn't been one person prosecuted for downloading in the world that i know of.
its DISTRIBUTING that they nail you for. that's what infringes the copyright. - Guinness57, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2wait a minute before moving to france.
this part of the law has been voted a midnight, there was only a few deputies at this moment.
French governement goal is not to legalize P2P, it's exactly the contrary, this part has been has been proposed by the opposition.
french governement can ask for a second examination, and there will be more deputies this time...
we do not have won yet - trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2OK I am surprised nobody else noticed this but at the same time that they are allowing p2p's they are also hyping legislation promoting DRM technologies. I think their take on pirating is not to try to crush p2p (impossible) but instead make it useless because if everything had DRM protection people can share it all they want without being able to use it.
- masterofshadows, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1until the DADVSI law gets voted down I really wont care:
http://www.videolan.org/eucd.html - wrinkles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1its never been illegal to download anything, there hasn't been one person prosecuted for downloading in the world that i know of.
its DISTRIBUTING that they nail you for. that's what infringes the copyright.
In P2P downloading and distributing is pretty much the same thing. Not too different from drug users vs drug dealers, really. The politics/economics of contraband demands that "users" become "dealers" at some point as a reality of black market costs and distribution.
Download for free? Sometimes, maybe, but they don't call it music _sharing_ for nothing. Everyone who gets in the black markets generally end up giving, too. - headzoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@linsys - Hopefully one personal site of mine should be good enough for you. I don't feel like posting my client's sites, which perform jobs more complicated than digg.
- llbbl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1tomorrow they VOTE on the stupid DMCA law in France !! Lets all wish them luck and hope they dont make the same mistake our lawmakers did.
- dovesmagic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm moving...and I'm not kidding! See ya US and the ***** RIAA (Recording Industry of American *****). You rock France!
Amen - benhiler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1France good jorb
- gamerzworld, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1humm I might just move....
- Quaazar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Imagine the business they'll recieve in websites moving to France based servers.
- Z_Man, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1OMFG! I'm moving to France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- tidejwe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1OH MY GOSH. . . Digg needs some kind of tracking so that people (like linsys) who keep flaming repeatedly are simply banned from making comments...Digg comments are for constructive thoughts on the TOPIC not junior high level "Yo mamma" attacks. Judas Priest! The one reason people will never leave sites Slashdot for Digg is #1 comments are juvenile, pointless and flames way too often. #2 Comments aren't threaded #3 Nobody ever rates the comments, and there is no way to sort comments so you can choose to view only the highly rated insightful, funny, useful, and informational comments. If Digg could get users to help with these issues (start rating comments so the flames and off-topic comments are deleted) then DIGG would rule over the BIG boys too. Believe it or not, the SLASHDOT effect is still bigger than the Digg-effect for simple reasons like GOOD comments...
- aaarg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2download anything u want but open source is outlawed? wtf?
- ihate2regist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1
NOTE TO SELF,
USE FRENCH PROXY! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,69901-0.html?tw=rss.index
funny, this article says the exact opposite..... wtf? - Thierry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1quote from Seumas:
"Well, it's easy to make it legal to download content when most of the content comes from ANOTHER COUNTRY (Ie, the United States)."
We're talking GOOD music here, that would be UK, not USofA - vince, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=fr_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.news.yahoo.com%2F21122005%2F202%2Fdroit-d-auteur-les-deputes-francais-legalisent-les-echanges-de.html
- Guspaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is NOT a go-ahead to host BitTorrent sites in France. That would be commercial, since people put advertisements on such sites to pay for server costs (And having run NovaSearch, I know that ads more than pay for hosting costs). That doesn't fall under this protection.
Are BitTorrent sites "illegal" in France? I don't know. But they wouldn't be covered by this same provision, if I'm reading this right, so be wary. - victimofkratina, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This just in:
Bush declares France part of the Axis of Evil (tm). - rtfx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This seems unreal. I knew it would have to happen - the technology can't be stopped - but it seems too soon yet. The massive lobbying of old big media is supposed to be holding back this sort of thing for at least a few more years.
Guess I'd better celebrate. - atdigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I understand that tomorrow they will vote on a "DADVSI" Law that's similar to Digital Millenium Copyright Act. If that law passes we are screwed.
- toiletduck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Save your political bitching for myspace.
- r3mix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This Wired article seems to say otherwise.
"French legislators are also calling for three-year jail sentences and fines of 300,000 euros for illegally copying music, video or any other copyright-protected files."
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,69905,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_2 - Wyattx17, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The next best thing since, french toast.
- CaptainFuture, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It's already been legal for more than a year to download movies and music for personal use in the Netherlands. Sharing is not allowed though, i.e. uploading. Kind of the same double standard as the Dutch have on softdrug use (marijuana) you can sell it, buy it and use it, but you can't manufacture it.
- shiftless, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oh no, the Top 40 list will suffer. What ever will we do?
- NeilM, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This can't be good.
- Cerberus047, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I HATE THE FRENCH but somehow im still donwloaing from their servers and happy.......
- brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Awesome...it is a word?
- jdgtrplyr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The US should take note and get organizations to quit with ridiculous penalties for P2P downloaders.
Go ahead and legalize it, there are plenty of old men/women and young children who would rather NOT take a peek at prison for getting a copy of the new Lindsay Lohan cd. - DiGiTaLFX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wana move to france!
- OOTay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0meh there still french...
- tidejwe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Check this out. . . we've known this for almost a year now http://digg.com/technology/P2P_(More)_Legal_in_France And it's been dugg before! Just ran into it today!
- wakaseoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0WAIT A MINUTE. The Assemblée Nationale is only the first step. The Parlement is made of the Assemblée and the Sénat.
1- A proposition of law is made by the governement (in this case by the Ministry of Culture). This text n°1206 aims at transalting the European Union Copy Directive which is itself a copy of the digital millennium copyright act.
2- Right now the proposition is discussed at the Assemblée where députés (members of the Assemblée) can make corrections. Correction n°153 stands "The author cannot prohibit the copy of a piece of art downloaded online and for personal use if the copy is paid to the author as indicated in article 311-4".
This proposition of correction has been adopted. The AFP understands files can be exchanged on the inernet. People understand p2p is legal. I understand "Sony-BMG cannot prohibit me of copying the music to my iPod if I bought the music on Virgin.com. Any End User Licence Agrrement which prevents me from doing such a thing would be illegal".
3- Next, the proposition of law whith all with the accepted corrections is transmited to the Sénat. The sénat will vote to adopt or reject the law as a whole. - Nanx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Je veux aller au Paris immediatement!!! Le Parliament est el 13.37 1//712u5!!!!!
- joshuar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0*packing my bags*
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