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- Andy.D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+35The debt isn't helped by the low pay that often follows graduation, either.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21... or the colllectors.
- Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19"Are student debts actually keeping college graduates from considering careers in teaching science..?"
As someone who had to give up beeing a teacher two years after graduation because the pay wasn't enough to cover the cost of paying my student loans and still being able to eat, I would say "Yes." - yourstrulydave, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21Does anyone else find these number a bit off?
I go to a private university and I am over 6 figures in debt for a 4 year bachelors degree. - lerinlas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Wouldn't it make more sense to try to figure out why the hell a college degree costs so much and try to figure out a way to reduce that cost for the student, rather than trying to get it forgiven after the fact?
5%-10% increases a year in tuition costs are ridiculous. Just my 0.02. - Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21You must live in a corner of the world where they will actually hire someone without a degree.. you wouldn't have that opinion if you lived where I do. Working at blockbuster requires at least a two year degree around here..
College is the new High School. - fantasticjon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17You could learn to be a doctor by reading about it on the Internet, but I doubt I would visit you.
A college degree is much more than learning facts and figures. Going to college is about learning time management, learning how to think and how to learn. Learning to push yourself and achieve more.
- duncantuna, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20It always amazes me the conversation and fear about student debt. $16k? That's nothing.
You don't see media stories about people buying $16k cars with loans, do you? And that car? It's a TERRIBLE investment. The minute you drive it off the lot, it's worth $2k less .. next year, it's worth another $2k less, ad infinitum.
Loans for education *generally* have great pay-backs, and are wonderful investments, as they boost your earning potential by several factors for decades. No other loan, not car nor home mortgages, come anywhere near that.
The moral of the story is .. take out student loans. Graduate. The jobs you get (for years to come) after all that will be worth 100x the cost of the loan. - TheSolomon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Top notch instructors? Maybe if you're lucky enough to go to a private school. Many larger schools use teaching assistants who sometimes barely know more about the material than the students. I've had some great instructors, but I've also had some lousy instructors. I find frequently find the most glowing reviews of college (and bloated claims about the usefulness and depth of education therein) come from those people who are either *in* college, or recently graduated. After several years of being in the workforce, you start to realize just how little *useful* knowledge you've taken with you from college... especially when you compare yourself to the new batch of college graduates.
Having a college degree exists mostly to show your prospective employer that you've attained the *bare minimum* requirement for the job. Your applied experience in the field will set you apart. Just think about how many people you know who have college degrees that have *nothing* to do with their current job. For many non-scientific and non-technical jobs, having *any degree at all* will suffice.
And give me a break with that "helps manage your time" line. I work full time and go to school full time, and the work load for my classes is *nothing* compared to my work load for my job. Many college students do nothing but school. For the first two years, many colleges even require students to live in the dorms. When your *only* responsibility is going to class and doing homework, how exactly does a degree say *anything* about time management? What conflicting issues are you trying to balance? Doing homework and your partying schedule? How to attend classes and still work three hours in the chemistry lab washing beakers and test tubes?
A degree is just a check mark on a resume or job application. It's what you do *beyond* that silly piece of paper that matters. - rnelsonee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Overrated, maybe.. but not a complete waste of time. A lot of the material you learn in the first couple of years of school (or what you learn at a community college) can be found online, sure. But college gives you top-notch instructors who can actually explain the real concepts, which is needed in the later years as the material becomes more specialized. And anything post-graduate, especially doctoral work at a research university, requires a great deal of interaction between specialists in their field -- an atmosphere that only a university can create. As for the ancillary benefits, college also shows that you are capable of learning, and it shows you have invested in yourself to better yourself -- this trainability and commitment is something employers value.
- Brian48216, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16Well, seeing how our government wants to push across another trillion dollar tax cut while cutting funding to student loans and scholarship programs, I'd say yes.
- valkyries, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10yeah im making this choice now, go into debt with student loans up the ass, or not goto school. white boys in engineering dont have a big chance getting scholarships, and grants. loans is really the only way =/
- Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Except that not everyone comes from a family with the resources to pay much more than interest only in that period between graduation and the first job, and even then the first job in your field generally pays crap so you don't manage to pay a whole lot off on the loans, all the while they are compounding interest..
And the problem is that people with those shiny new degrees have to get a job that pays enough that they can pay back the loan and still function in society. Teaching and research don't pay enough to do that. - mrops, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9phew ...
I am glad I did my engineering degree in India. That too from a central university.
It costed me 20000Rs or so, Translates to approx. 400US$ (yes 400$ for 4 years, only 100$/yr)
Now going back to the article, this might explain why India and China are churning out Engineering grads more so than the developed nations (US, UK etc). - thewebguy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12rofl UK students had better not be actually complaining.
on top of all of the advantages they have in university, did you know those cheeky bastards get up to 2,000 pounds of overdraft for free? if you go 1 penny over on a student bank account in the states you get charged a fee, sometimes up to $90, PER charge. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I hear that one man, when I was just graduating high-school my father wasn't working. I applied for financial aid and they told me , that I didn't qualify ; apparently my household was making too much...yet I know my parents were going paycheck to paycheck.
Right now, because I had to do it all myself, my loans are around 40k. I'd love to teach, but I just can't afford to - TomP, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12...Or high taxes in the UK
- Kajico, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9It was the main reason why I didn't go to college, and had to wait six years to start any kind of school. College is expensive, and for people that come from low income families and barely qualify for financial aid, it becomes a major deciding factor.
- MartinSJacobson, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13"...had to give up beeing a teacher..."
I would have suspected a more obvious reason. - sogracefully, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9otherland--
there are anywhere from 10-15% of all people in the US living BELOW POVERTY LEVEL. i don't know what you consider "failure" in terms of an economic system, but i'm pretty sure that's it. - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9The problem, culebra, that I think is being pointed out, is that people will only think of themselves, when it comes to their own personal finances. This would be great if every school was a private school, but that simply isn't the case. Public schools should be available to any taxpayer (or their children). I like to put faith in people, but I just don't think people usually have the good foresight to be able to make good decisions with their money in regards to benefitting society. Look at the problems with pollution we're facing right now. Same idea.
- inkyblue2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@culebra
Yeah, levying taxes to provide public education is definitely Communist and must be stopped. Next thing you know, we're going to go right off the deep end and start making sure American citizens can all eat food and see the doctor when they're sick. Where does it all end?! - brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12University educates you and helps qualifies you for the field you want to work in.
Making a good salary involves being a good employee and persistantly seeking better salary positions.
There are plenty of college grads who arent good employees.
There are even more college grads who do not actively pursue better work (INERTIA). - dbarbour, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9$40K over 30 years? I can't imagine having a debt hanging over my head like that for so long. It's crazy these days. Nobody wants to own anything anymore. Our entire society has become laden with debt and everyone seems cool with that. Hell, I have $6K hanging over my head for flight school (already had my bachelors degree) and it kills me. Hell, I can't stand having my truck payment hanging over me. I can't imagine being in someone's pocket for 30+ years 'cause I owe them money. The only thing worth having a loan that long for is a home. And hell... Give me a 20-year loan. To hell with this 30-40 year ***** people are signing up for these days. Hell, even car loans have stretched to 7 years. What is this?! Be more responsible with your money. You don't need an Escalade or a 4,000 sq. ft. house.
- Kajico, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9You still need that paper that says you're educated. Experience will only take you so far, before you are stuck in the same old rutty job seeing great career opportunities pass you buy for a lack of a degree. You need to have experience and a degree.
- NJank, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8where else could I have learned the theory behind beer-pong?
- angelp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6That's nice and all and I can understand that from a financial aspect. But looking at it from the kid's perspective, it's a shame that they can't go to the college they want and that their grades warrant because education costs in this country have become so outrageous. I'm hearing lots of kids having to "settle" for either community college or other schools that they don't want to attend (even though they busted their butts to get excellent grades) because they can't afford it. It's reality...but at some point, we have to realize that education costs are getting out of hand.
- duncantuna, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9True, not all students / majors will get you a job for big bucks .. but by and large, 90% of graduates, within a year of their graduation, get a job reflective of their degree. The vast majority of college grads do indeed get jobs, with pretty nice average salaries -- true, ranging from $25k to $50k.
Even at $25k/year, a student, who previously was making $0 or perhaps $10k/year at a McJob, the post-graduation job will provide 3x the income that was previously being earned. -- And those loans are designed just for that, where you don't start paying until you've graduated .. consolidations and payment adjustments occur all the time, and really favorable rates.
Now, if you're not smart with your post-graduation job salary, and blow it on a fancy car and high rent, and live beyond your means, sure, you're going to have problems paying back that student loan. But that's a seperate issue all together.
By and large, most graduates should have no problem paying off their loans. Are there exceptions? Sure. - angelp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5CorpT - That's all fine and dandy to tell people to pick a field that pays something, but teaching is a field that's notorious for not paying well. However, we NEED teachers. If people are discouraged from pursuing that field, eventually our children will get hurt as a result when we don't have enough teachers or enough qualified teachers.
It's a little more complex than telling people to pick a different field. - n8r0n, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Thank you for the admiration, I forgot to mention I am no longer in the service. The GI Bill is a benefit we can use even after we are out.
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"Public schooling IS available for all taxpayers children. Just up through high-school. College isn't.
If college was payed for by the government (taxpayers), then people would complain about the next level, graduate school. I can hear it already, "Everybody has a right to be a doctor!""
In the US college is much cheaper for in-state residents going to state schools. It's not free, but is much cheaper than private universities. So college is already heavily subsidized by taxpayers, although it's not completely free. - Apreche, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I can tell you this. If I didn't have student debt I would be an entrepeneur, not a laborer.
- vypergts, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Some colleges run more like businesses than places of higher education. However, the $16,000 is simply a median and that shouldn't discourage people from going to school. There are lots of schools that don't cost very much to go to and you can always transfer or work your way up to a better school. Most people don't have the money to go to an Ivy league school but I think that there are a lot of people who could get a loan or some financial aid to attend a community college or technical school. It really depends on how much value you place on education and how badly you want it. Most employers seem to put a good deal of value on it so why not go into debt a little bit? Paying off loans can also be a good way to build credit.
- gothesque, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5thewebguy: I'm a UK student and I'm currently in £15,000 debt (approx $27,000) after three years and I didn't have to pay any fees to do my degree, that is merely my student loan (which also has a nicly high interest rate). And though that £2000 overdraft is very useful, you have to pay it back stupidly quickly after finishing your degree and if at any moment you go over it you get hit with a £30 charge, per item.
The UK university system isn't that different from the US. - greenlight2001, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6From the article: "Results from Google suggest that going on to medical school is likely to tack on about $100,000 more."
I wish it was only $100,000 more. I'm looking at about $185,000 - $195,000 more, on top of about $30,000 from my undergrad. I puke a little bit in my mouth every time I think about the 1/4 million dollars I'm going to have in student loan debt after I graduate from medical school. - JeffT1545, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I don't really see the news here. College is expensive. Medical school is even more expensive. Err thanks for pointing this out?
- Paroparo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Stuff like this makes me feel lucky to live in Finland. Education is free from kindergarden to PhD and we even get student grants, some 450-500 euros per month for up to 55 months. The prevailing attitude elsewhere seems to be that education is an investment you have to pay for, but I disagree with this. I consider educating the people one of the main jobs of the state and believe *everyone* benefits from a higher level of education. Especially in a small country of 5 million people with little natural resources and no big foreign friends.
This viewpoint is on the opposite side on the "low taxes, pay for stuff yourself" "high taxes, lots of free stuff" from what most people here (Americans) are used to, but I must say I prefer our system to yours. - ErrandboyOfDoom, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"Actually that is communism. It's an echo of the socialistic FDR policies And it has to go."
You don't have to be a communist to believe in market failures. - soogy, on 10/12/2007, -12/+17Actually, they spend it on those fancy new TVs because the government didn't supply them with the proper education to do otherwise in the first place. So... Yeah.
- fogbog293, on 02/10/2009, -0/+450,000 a year for college? Dear God! If your parents just invested that $200,000 in an ETF or something that grows at an average rate of 10% a year, you'll have 17 million dollars when you retire.
Now let's say that the average college grad makes 8k a year more. Every year, they invest that 8k extra in the stock market and after 42 years of working, with the same 10% interest, they will have 5 million dollars.
Paying this much for college just doesn't add up people! - gamekid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4When someone gets a plain office job, their brain cells die, and humanity as a whole strays farther from finding out the truth[s] that unite us all.
- CorpT, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"Is this kid going to make enough with a liberal arts degree to pay back this loan on top of trying to live?"
Probably not. He should get a real degree instead of something that qualifies him for working in a coffee shop and complaining about the bourgeois. - angelp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'd recommend in this day and age to go to a good state school. I don't think the name and prestige of a college holds as much weight as it used to. I didn't really take that into account when I was hiring employees for my old company.
- brufleth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Doing research is a great way to help pay for your degrees. I have a friend who is in the process of getting his masters degree right now and he has done research since early in his undergrad years. I suppose this can't exactly be considered a career but he has been at it for longer than many people keep jobs and has been the first author on several papers.
Teaching is an entirely different. Engineers and scientists are quite often terrible at teaching. I think most people who have been in any educational system has run into the teacher who might be very bright but can't teach at all. Engineering and science often attracts people with poor communication skills. Often they're even proud of their anti social disposition. Science and math teachers are rare in part because people in those fields can probably make more money doing something besides teaching (not actually always true in today's economy) but also you must be a bit of a hybrid math/science/"people person" in order to teach these topics. - n8r0n, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I am currently enrolled in school, and my wife graduated last year with a BA in Accounting. No student loans here, thank you GI Bill!
- hockey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That's a good point and I was the same way. However once I decided to go to the local college I was surprised at the quality of the the education I got. I only have that one school as a reference but as far as I'm concerned I got a good college education. I remember working hard for my courses and the degree that I earned kicked my butt academically.
I remember putting in up to 6-7 hours per day at times in computer labs and study halls because the courses were tough and the teachers were hard.
Yes prices are getting high but a college degree is a college degree any way you cut it. Don't knock the "small" school just because their campus isn't the size of a major city. - etruscan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Exactly. I'm in Canada and I've accumulated about $30,000 of debt, which can't be paid off by my laboring wages. I've got a decent job as a web designer, but it's not going to allow me to live AND pay off my loan.
Now, friends of mine who never went on to a post-secondary education are getting the same types of jobs, so they are making the same amount of money. The difference is - they have credit and approval for a mortgage or a car loan, whereas I... do not.
So while that education was nice and all - it's actually punishing me, while my non-educated friends are building lives for themselves. - themulf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Having taxes pay for college at this point would be a band-aid fix using cheap adhesive. The problem is why colleges ARE so expensive. There is certainly enough tax money collected to band-aid the issue, its just what other less important program would be cut. One thing I just saw was Gov. Ed Rendell just gave a 2 Million to Boeing for some pork deal.
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've got US$65 thousand in student loan debt (mostly graduate school). I make US$32 thousand a year. If it weren't for taking a couple of community college courses for the deferment, I'd be screwed. I don't even have a graduate degree either. I'm counting on the coming hyperinflation to erase my debts.
- angelp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Who exactly said that people shouldn't have to pay their college debt? (besides in the article)
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