What is Digg?24 Comments
- bdteacher51, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I totally agree; if zooomr or deviant art would set up the ability for members to create groups I'd be gone in a New York second. It is the groups that create the community.
- Davros1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I just sent an email to Flickr.
I hate companies that get cocky and treat customers like *****. - Pensketch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This isn't new. I started my Pro account over a year and a half ago and was NIPSA'd right out the gate because I pulled everything I'd had at Smugmug onto Flickr. So, when they reviewed my account they marked me as verboten. They didn't tell me however. That was something I found out over time.
When I did I went back and fourth with Monish for about four rounds of emails until I had sufficiently jumped through the hoops. All of my non-photo work is marked private and now I can be found. Except my art can't. Which still pisses me off.
Rather than try to get them to change their policy on artwork, which I highly doubt they will, we should try to get them to start up a sister site for artists to display their work. Ideally they would offer a discount for people who also have a Pro account on Flickr. It should be easy to do.
The only reason I'm even remaining with Flickr is because I like their level of community. If another image sharing site that is friendly to artists can capture that level of community, I will drop Flickr like the art hating **** they appear to be.
I'll check out Zoom as well. - vanmeir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This does seem misguided. I know Flickr styles itself as a "photo" sharing site, but I see no reason to exclude other types of images. This is particularly true in the era of Photoshop, when the line between photographs and other types of "created images" is blurry at best.
- royblumenthal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you 'Digg' this story, please be sure to send a note to the Flickr admin to let them know that they've been outed in public. A little bit of pressure might make them take notice of the thousands of artists registered to their site. Thanks for reading this.
Blue skies, love, Roy - Pensketch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Zooomr" rather. I'm tired.
- royblumenthal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Top man, Davros1! I don't think they're necessarily treating us like *****. I just think they've got a policy, and they're quietly adhering to it, and thereby alienating a percentage of their users. I don't know how MANY artists are on the site, but I can tell you that it's probably in the hundreds of thousands.
vanmeir... I agree with you... they ARE a photo-sharing site, and they're explicit about it in one section of their guidelines. The problem is that they're silent about what they're doing to the artists, AND they actually ALLOW art on the site.
So one of two things should happen... either they must relax the policy, and let artists take their place alongside photographers, or they must bar artists completely, and stop accepting their money. It's really that clear cut.
I'd hate for them to bar artists. Cos I'm not at all interested in putting photos on the site. And it's a great home for my artworks. So I'm hoping there'll be some way to get them to relent and treat artists like humans.
Bue skies
love
Roy - royblumenthal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've just set up a ZOOOMR account, and it looks like it might indeed become a viable alternative to Flickr.
I am a LITTLE concerned. Their tagline is: 'Experience the world through Photos.' If they're artist-friendly, I'd hope to see that change to 'Experience the world through Pictures.'
However, their 'Terms of Service' are very clear that it's ANY kind of image that you may host on the site.
In addition, it's got a little add-on that is quite exciting... you can attach an audio file to any of your pics. Which means you can pretty much make mini podcasts about your stuff.
I'm impressed by the site, and I'm sure there's more to come.
But it doesn't solve the Flickr issue.
The Flickr problem isn't about excluding artists. It's about marketing and public relations and pissing off your customers and creating a negative backlash against your business.
I used to believe that companies cared about their users. But they don't necessarily. I think Flickr has fallen into a self-created delusional trap. They've found themselves with significant numbers of users, and they think the NUMBERS themselves are important.
It's the USERS who are important. Numbers don't spread the word. Users do.
Blue skies
love
Roy
PS: Please click on 'DIGG IT' in the little rectangle that shows below the square showing the number of DIGGS. Thanks! - klsanderson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am having a difficult time understanding any reason for the exclusion, especially as there is such a fine line of gradation - photograph; photo taken on digital camera; digital or analog photo enhanced in Photoshop; photo manipulated; photo used as point of departure for analog work; photo of analog work; photo of analog work which makes a statement as a photograph itself. And the world goes round and round.
There are groups for people who take pictures of their knitting projects - a way of using the wonderful community structure of flickr. I'm sure there are many groups/communities where the photograph itself is incedental - where the photograph is only a conveyance, a way of getting the photographed objects (cats, dogs, motorcycles, shoes... whatever) to the community forum. Or maybe I don't understand, and someone is looking at each photograph and deciding whether it is a photograph or a conveyance.
In any case, my own work would fall into most all of the above categories, and all should be respectfully and equally represented within flickr.
In variation of the old saying,
"Some of my best friends are (analog) artists."
Katherine Sanderson
klsanderson - Pensketch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1That's like saying a hammer is just for hitting nails. A tool is a tool.
Besides, they aren't sharing photos. They are sharing digital images. And get this: if you scan an actual, on paper, photograph and post it to Flickr you run the risk of being tagged NIPSA. - lumpenheapme, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Our art is photographed so therefore it is photos!
I realy see no reason for this discrimination against artists
I take photos and do art it seems all my photos recieve the same
flickr attention
I am fed up with my photos not being seen in everyones photos!!! - LadyWyvern, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Many of us in the art community have already complained about this. I tell people to make sure at least 50 per cent of their flickr stream isn't art (like paintings, logos, diagrams). It's such a weird feeling of rejection when you get hit with the NIPSA thing. I think the heart of the policy lies at them not wanting Flickr to be a marketing site, as in ,'here's my painting' 'come buy it'. But the way they enforce it seems to be so arbitrary. So of course I pounced on the chance to vote this up on DIGG and add it to my blog.
- ezle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0grr companies these days..
- fionalong, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think what Flickr is doing is outrageous! Isn’t photography an art form? What if you want to take an interesting photograph of a sculpture? Where do you draw the line (not that they like line drawings of course!) and why should there be a distinction?
It seems totally closed minded to me. I used to get very positive comments from people who had searched for elephants for example, found my painting and enjoyed it. Why should people only be able to find photographs and not every image on the subject they are interested in? Some people are not as closed minded as Flickr seems to be and if they don’t like something they can just keep going. Art seems to be treated like offensive porn or something! I wonder what the policy on that is? - thomashawk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Hey feel free to send your art to Zooomr. We are happy to have both you and your artwork and will not Nipsa you. If you are also a blogger we are giving free pro accounts for bloggers.
http://blog.zooomr.com/2006/07/20/more-love-for-bloggers-25gb-free-pro-accounts/ - royblumenthal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hiya wormann...
Thank you for a very refreshing perspective. I hadn't really seen it from your point of view, and you make a compelling argument. Thanks for chipping in on this little 'campaign'.
Blue skies
love
Roy - royblumenthal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hiya kittyanydots...
I really had no idea about their art policy when I decided to go 'pro'. I signed up, and all was well. Until one day, six months later, I noticed that my hits had dropped. And that my pics stopped showing up in the Illustration Friday group RSS feed.
The problem with your situation is that you're currently 'under the radar'. At any time, they may stumble upon your account, and NIPSA you, and then your stuff will stop showing up anywhere.
As exle says in the comment above yours... grr!
Blue skies
love
Roy - kittyanydots, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i just sent flickr an email.
ps -- i registered for digg just to show my support; i wasn't previously a digg member. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1If you are an artist go to deviantart or something, flickr is for sharing photos!
- gabriella, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am devastated by this whole thing! i just learned tonite about the NIPSA thing- I'm pretty sure I've been infected by the invisible NIPSA virus.One suspect symptom is that when i google my name my Flickr account doesn't come up on its own, but it will show up as someone else's contact. Have I been branded?
I JUST submitted my Flickr url along with my name as credit to artwork of mine that's being published. Hopefully, it's not too late to change the credit and restart a new blog to house my "portfolio" of pictures. If I can't change it am I doomed?? I LOVE Flickr, but I'm not advertising it anymore as my "main site" or "blog"...OK, I'll say it! How the Hell am I gonna get discovered if no one can find me?!!?:) I want people to be able to google my name and see all the wonderful things I've created. What is the freakin' harm in that?!??!! How does alienating a HUGE community like ours prove beneficial to them[Flickr] as a whole?? Does making us invisible make us cease to exist?? I think not! We are Artist's! Hear us Draw!
Thanks for indulging my desperation. Now what can we do next?
peace,love,and art! gabriella travaline (bellah from Flickr) - wormann, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I posted the below message to a board on Flickr but I thought it was appropriate here as well. I have also e-mailed Flickr. And I said yes I am human to open an account here to hopefully show support to help gain attention to this situation.
While I might be the only photographer posting to this board, I thought you should have at least one photographers opinion.
I was shocked by what I have read here and do not agree with Flickr's position. To quote from the above referenced e-mail "Our Community Guidelines state that non-photographic
images such as screen shots, paintings, drawings,
illustrations, graphic designs, scanned images, or digital
art are not allowed in public areas of the site. You may
still see some, but these types of images are generally
blocked from appearing in searches or the Explore pages."
I joined Flickr before Yahoo bought them. In my opinion, the feeling of the Flickr community has changed since then and not necessarily for the better. I have noticed an influx of people who seem to go out of their way to leave disrespectful comments, there are people posting "photography" of shots they took of women's butts in Target, lots of UNinterestingness but fun to share with family and friends (which ok - that's great) still not interesting to anyone out of their circle, people stir up ***** in forums, I could go on and on. However, apparently because all of this is in the form of a picture, Yahoo is going to promote that over art. They are also promoting blogging other people's work (without an announcement that hey we have added this feature that is automatically on - you might want to turn it off if you aren't okay with it). Whereas before, I felt like by and large Flickr was mainly an artist community where you could come and learn and see AMAZING work of all types. Some of the paintings, digital work, and drawings gave me ideas to try in my photography.
I think it is a shame to lose that aspect of the Flickr community. I have been inspired to learn and take better photographs, not only by the great photos I have seen here but by the art as well. As long as it is your work, then you should be able to share it as you see fit.
Thank you for reading my rant! I will climb down from my soap box now. I sincerely hope that corporate marketing won't close off this aspect Flickr. - arlee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm an artist who primarily uses Flickr for photos *of* my artwork--how do i find out if i've been "Nipsa'd"????? Totally unfair practice!
- iagreen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Thank you, Roy, for having brougt some attention to this issue. I happened upon a discussion of this issue for the first time today (on fickr) and did a search for unique tags for my photostream, and concluded that I have been NIPSA'd and am invisible on flickr.
I joined DIGG today (have been meaning to for a while now, since I am an admirer of Kevin Rose--have been since his TechTV days, when I learned a lot from him and Sarah) and think it's a dynamic site.
Hope we can get something accomplished and realize the goal of having every flickr subscriber treated equally.
Thank you, wormann, for your comments. It gives me hope that other photographers will be as accepting of us and that we have nothing to fear from one another! - kittyanydots, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0thanks, roy, for the article and action.
flickr seems to be inconsistent on their art policy. there are many art related groups. i heard that art won't show up in "interestingness" yet using fd's scout, what few images i have there are mostly art, and those seem to get the most feedback in my stream. i only have a free account, but flickr's policy towards art is one reaction why i'm very reluctant to buy a pro account from them. i think the people who have bought a pro account are really getting a raw deal if their art isn't showing up.
i've been trying to find other services besides flickr and will take a look at the others mentioned here.
thanks again roy.
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