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213 Comments
- inactive, on 05/12/2009, -12/+110As a private company they can do whatever they want in this regard.
- samby, on 05/12/2009, -6/+82I believe they should let holocaust denial groups do as they will. Any rational person will see the groups for what they are, and will merely be affirmed in the 'correct' view.
To be fair, this was Voltaire's thinking nearly 300 years ago. Its too bad many of us haven't yet caught up to this genius's thinking. - oda1, on 05/12/2009, -10/+75I think it's pointless to moderate these type of groups. I never heard of it, until now. See how that works?
- dukeeeey, on 05/12/2009, -8/+44while i don't deny the holocaust ...
i think people should be allowed to believe whatever they want. You can't force beliefs on people. People might think this is okay, since clearly the holocaust was a bad thing, but what if they start this with other things ? If this happens only the official views (even if incorrect) will be tolerated.
ie if they banned people that thought dental amalgams leaked mercury into your body
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ylnQ-T7oiA - RegalBegal, on 05/12/2009, -3/+36As was said, it's a private company. They can remove anything they want from their network.
- sinisterD, on 05/12/2009, -3/+33i deny that the facebook groups ever existed.
- Ploungy, on 05/12/2009, -0/+25You might?
- Asrrin29, on 05/12/2009, -3/+26I fail to see how this non story got to the front page. the article claims that there are 5 of these "denial" groups, and only 2 were shut down because they breached the ToS of facebook by crossing the line between expressing a personal opinion or view and espousing hate or violence. It clearly states what is and is not allowed on the website, and if you can't follow the rules then this will happen. They aren't "persecuting" nay-sayers, or any other conspiracy you can think of. They are simply following the rules they themselves have set up.
- str3ama, on 05/12/2009, -6/+27Freedom of Speech means allowing idiots, ***** and racists to voice their opinions and beliefs, even if you don't agree with them. That's both the pro and con of free speech.
Facebook is a private company so they can do as they wish, but they can't later come back and allege free speech, and if they're willingly to do this for one group - they'll have to do it for others. If they troll Facebook enough they'll find there are racist and xenophobic groups for just about every race, ethnicity and creed. There's an anti-Asians group, anti-White group, etc.. will these groups also be removed?
Also what does this mean for how Facebook determines what is acceptable and what is not - could I be removed for alleging that God does not exist? The main point is where do they draw the line between what they define as hate speech and legitimate curiosity.
Frankly I believe the holocaust happened, but I really dislike that it's not up for debate, not that I'd want to debate it - but I see no reason why any topic, regardless of how controversial and sensitive, shouldn't be up for debate, criticism and free speech. - shaka776, on 05/12/2009, -10/+31Good to know that individual companies can still control some aspect of their business.
- charlie6969, on 05/12/2009, -1/+21Terms of Service. TOS.
SERVICE; not a right.
One is a law; one is a private service.
It isn't MY business to tell a SERVICE PROVIDER what they can and cannot allow on THEIR website, nor is it YOUR business, if you don't choose to make use of THEIR services.
Standing on the corner, however, I will "fight" for your right to say whatever you want; even if I TOTALLY disagree with you. - waydee, on 05/12/2009, -1/+20Nobody is being denied the right to believe anything, they are being denied the right to express their beliefs on a soapbox owned by a privately owned company.
- pestriddentacos, on 05/12/2009, -8/+24"There should be limits to freedom of speech, and this is a clear line we shouldn't cross."
Methinks someone doesn't understand the point of 'freedom'. - Sejes89, on 05/12/2009, -6/+21There are so many hate groups on facebook. A good example is this group called "***** Islam" that supposedly came out when facebook was still new. Many people went out of their way calling to end the hate group yet nothing was done. What makes these two anti-holocaust groups so extra-hateful?
- yuutokun, on 05/12/2009, -1/+15ahhahahahaa That was hilarious. Good ***** up man.
- mikelieman, on 05/12/2009, -1/+14The official act of a government, and the operating decision of an artificial legal entity are two different things. They are Facebook's servers. Unless you're going for a Protected Class under the ADA, it's a no-brainer... Hey, the holocaust-deniers are FREE to set up their own servers, aren't they? A VPS is only 60 bucks a month.
Oh, and it's spelled "Holocaust"... - fartingbob, on 05/12/2009, -25/+38So i suppose free speech is only free as long as you dont say things people dont like? Theres nothing illegal about thinking the halocaust didnt happen.
- SpoonMSU, on 05/12/2009, -2/+14FTA, the two that were removed were promoting hate and violence, according to Facebook. The other three are allowed to stay up, but are being monitored to make sure they don't fall to the same levels as the two that were removed.
- zelig, on 05/12/2009, -1/+13No they can't.
- disappointed, on 05/12/2009, -8/+20Right, but the evidence for the holocaust is overwhelming. There's a small industry that grabs onto the slightest doubt about the holocaust and uses it to present a distorted argument. There's a lot of people who'll pay good money to be told by some respectable looking historian that the Jews are all liars. Those people are anti-semites, not historians.
There's nothing wrong with questioning that which is taken for granted but you don't want to become a flat-earther. - inactive, on 05/12/2009, -5/+16Historically speaking, your parents were siblings.
Discuss. - inactive, on 05/12/2009, -0/+10The whole thing?
- ehaugan, on 05/12/2009, -0/+10Free Speech has no merit when you sign a TOS agreement.
- BT1000101, on 05/12/2009, -0/+9I can't believe there are enough of those ***** to make ONE group, let alone multiple groups. Where are the Civil War denial groups or the WWI and WWII denial groups?
- Gguillorn, on 05/12/2009, -6/+15When did the number of Holocaust victims become only six million? I hate how in this country we conveniently leave out the other six million non-Jews who were killed in the exact same camps.
- noahtron, on 05/12/2009, -1/+10wtf?
- Ebacherville, on 05/12/2009, -2/+10Sex, religion, and race are protected , however anti holocaust believers is not, andy business can deny service to any one based on that companies views, unless its one of those protected things like race, religion, or sex.
A company can say we don't sell anything to people with tattoos, for example.. thats not protected, they can also deny people based on membership to there said store, like sams club does etc.
However practices like this can tick people off and they will boycot your business, its a choice the company makes.. Kind of like how ebay doesn't allow sales of certain items. - inactive, on 05/12/2009, -5/+13No voice? What planet do you live on? The New York Times cites the Holocaust at least once every week and has done so for the past 40 years?
The millions of Ukrainian Christians killed by the Bolshevik Komissars, the Armenians slaughtered by the young Turks, and the millions of Germans killed in the post war era are the ones without a voice. - inactive, on 05/12/2009, -8/+15So?, let them, it's their choice, not yours.
- eadint, on 05/12/2009, -8/+15you know what F****k the holocaust, what happened to the jewish people was pithy compared to the russians and allot of other people, Stalin made Hitler look like a catholic school girl.
I want to see the Russian holocaust memorial i want to see about how my ancestors were massacred and starved to death, I want to see about all the other germans who didnt fit into hitlers mold.
there were allot of other people killed during WW2 yet we only hear about the jewish aspect of it. im tired of that lets give some press to all the other people who were killed during that time.
F**k the jews they've had enough press. - inactive, on 05/12/2009, -1/+8Milk. All over the monitor.
- manjas8, on 05/12/2009, -0/+7I was actually torn on this one for a bit, but then pulled my head out of my ass.
If I owned a business I wouldn't want some ***** coming in telling me how to run it.
If Facebook decided to keep the groups or get rid of them, it was their right to choose either way. - covertbadger, on 05/12/2009, -1/+8@jugger74
Stop being so melodramatic. The First Amendment forbids Congress passing laws that restrict speech. Congress. Facebook are not Congress, and neither have they made any laws. They have ToS, which you can choose to abide by or not. There's nothing illegal or morally questionable about this. Their servers, their rules. If you want to deny the holocaust, do it on your own platform where it will be protected by the laws of the land. - mantonb, on 05/12/2009, -2/+9TOS are clear - Holocaust deniers are free to spout their crazy ideas elsewhere - my question is why are the 2 following groups still up & running
two groups called "death to Arabs"
http://tr.im/l7OV
http://tr.im/l7Pf
my view is facebook is a community that promotes community and civil discourse and fun - Please say no to hatred from any corner and Join Facebook group - Must close group "death to Arabs" http://tr.im/l7Pz - Jerryrad, on 05/12/2009, -2/+8Why didn't someone just set up a group denying the existence of groups that deny the Holocaust?
- jugger74, on 05/12/2009, -12/+18Regardless of the fact that they are a private company to set the policy of restricting free speech is unacceptable. Free speech must be protected, especially in it's ugliest forms. I know this is becoming less popular all the time with the nanny/police state growing up around us and everyone wanting the government and their big business counterparts to "protect" us from practically everything. Intelligent people know that restricting and taking away rights doesn't protect you it simply enslaves you and that is the course we are currently racing down world wide.
- Gguillorn, on 05/12/2009, -0/+6Does a company have the right to fire an employee for making extremely racist or sexist remarks to other employees? Would you say that is an infringement of free speech?
- mikelieman, on 05/12/2009, -0/+6@Myonosken,
Perhaps that would be better phrased, "Freedoms only limits are the consequences you're prepared to suffer as a result of exercising your Freedom"...
OR
"I'd rather be a free man in my grave. than living as a puppet or a slave..." - CSheikh, on 05/12/2009, -0/+6Yes they can, which is why they don't have to listen to Cuban and shut the websites down.
- nathan43082, on 05/12/2009, -0/+6Except that you are comparing unproven scientific theories (that's being generous) to events that happened to real people, some of whom are still alive, and are supported by overwhelming forensic evidence.
- kinseyincanada, on 05/12/2009, -3/+9on noes a facebook group! there like the most important things ever! /s
- samby, on 05/12/2009, -2/+8Yes! Yes I would apply this principle to racist organizations. The racist organizations are in for a very painful future, as globalization proceeds. Do you know there are more geniuses in India than in the U.S.? You can see this just based on the relative populations. Anyone who believes in racist principles will be at a distinct disadvantage in the future.
This is much better than someone high above deciding 'what is right', and banning any and all debate on the issue. - minnecrapolis, on 05/12/2009, -2/+7Yes, countless millions of non-Jews were murdered also and they deserve more press than they have been given in the past.
That does not lessen what happened to the Jews and it's really a rotten thing for your to say " ***** the Holocaust" and "***** the Jews". Were their lives any less worthy than the other people that were murdered?
I understand your sentiment partially but why do you have to lessen what happened to the Jews?
Let's remember what happened to the Jews AND to the Russians, Gypsies, Handicapped, etc.
You do not help in raising awareness of the non-Jews that were murdered because most people are going to bury you after reading the first six words of your reply. - dbixler, on 05/12/2009, -1/+6I actually had to force myself to watch those, and I can say, I sure wish I had that hour or so of my life back. However, I believe in knowing everything there is to know about people like yourself. Video #2, around 10:00ish is where your flimsy case starts to completely fall apart. You ask questions that Dr. Piper answered rather well, yet you then go back and refute his statement in favor of a tour-guide that probably makes the minimum wage, though only when it suits your case.
I started to throw up in my mouth a little bit part of the way through part three so I had to stop. I do thank you for your video in as much as it simply shows the ignorance of people who do deny the holocaust.
"Frankly I don't think your claim holds water." - Narishma, on 05/12/2009, -0/+5Or better yet, set up a group that denies that facebook exists.
- jonddoe2, on 05/12/2009, -1/+6Sure thing, Kanye West.
- SteveMax, on 05/12/2009, -0/+5@awesomeR0B0T
But this creates a dangerous precedent. What if they make a similar decision about, say, Japanese groups who hold the US responsible for Hiroshima/Nagasaki?
Did the Holocaust happen? Of course it did. Can Facebook force people to acknowledge that in their network? Of course they can. But should they? Should they dictate what is the acceptable view on anything? What if they start do that on politically relevant topics? What if they deleted groups that discussed torture in Guantanamo? Or if they deleted groups that denied that torture happened there?
Facebook doesn't exist to "educate" anyone, and a private company "educating" people has the potential to be used politically. That wouldn't be celebrated by anyone, no matter what their views on this matter are. - MtheoryX, on 05/12/2009, -1/+6And the Dutch, right?
- 4degrees, on 05/12/2009, -0/+5and now you can take solace in the fact you cant have a facebook page that expresses your views. :-P because, clearly if you are not impressed by the jews and their "plight" you are clearly a denier. Because we all know that unimpressed == denial.
- Myonosken, on 05/12/2009, -1/+6Law of what land? They might be an american company at heart, but they have servers and facebook 'versions' across the globe.
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