What is Digg?205 Comments
- ProphetSix, on 08/05/2008, -5/+98Spock: The needs of the many outweigh...
Kirk: ...the needs of the few.
Spock: ...Or the one.
Everything you need to know in life you can learn from watching Star Trek. - CrimsonTemplar, on 08/05/2008, -6/+55The girl's family should sue instead of expecting the Government to make an existing law "fit" a situation it wasn't intended for.
Also, ProphetSix has it right. - Fhwqhgads, on 08/05/2008, -19/+65Pulled from the comments section on the site:
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WOW, Internet trolls watch out.
If someone is stupid and feebleminded enough to actually kill themselves over what some troll posted on the Internet, they (the so-called victim) are the problem.
Also blame the parents for standing by and allowing it, then in typical fashion, blaming someone else for their and their daughter's failures.
More and more, we are finding excuses to limit freedom of speech, and many other freedoms, to do the parents' jobs of "protecting the children".
Sickening how irresponsible parents are these days. As far as I'm concerned, smoking, alcoholic, and drug using parents, and parents of obese children, to name a few examples should be punished bigtime for neglect and their children be put into responsible hands. THAT is how we protect the children, not by making more freedom-limiting laws.
Too many ***** are producing kids. I could go on about requiring intelligence and competence tests before allowing childbirth, but that would fill a million posts. People need to be a certified saint to adopt a kid, but not create one.
Anyways,
/end rant
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Amen to that.
In this particular case, the girl had mental problems that are quite likely linked to parental failure.
I'm not defending the woman, just calling it like I see it. - chrisvc86, on 08/05/2008, -1/+35Wow, I don't know how I feel about this one. I remember hearing this story back when it emerged and how disgusted I was at the mother and how I wanted her to be charged with some kind of crime. But the EFF does have a point, you shouldn't have federal charges brought against you for merely breaking a ToS. This is kinda opening the door for some huge abuses that, sorry to say, overshadows this tragedy that happened to the teen girl. I wish they could be creative and find some other way to charge her.
- ryan83189, on 08/05/2008, -3/+27The internet gives bullies the ability to remain anonymous. That being said, it gives you the ability to block IM's, websites, people from viewing your profiles etc. If they keep harassing you with different accounts, make a white list of accounts. If it is really bad, unplug your computer. Censorship has no place on the net, especially when the user can censor so much themselves. Thats how it works, and how it should work in the future. This girl is obviously messed up in the head to kill herself over someone she could not have possibly met in person. If we have to clean up the internet to prevent oversensitive people from being offended then there wouldn't be much left. Sorry she killed herself, but the lady next door is 100% responsible. Would she have done it without the anonymity of the internet? I don't know, but if you think it's the internet's fault, then are cars responsible for drunk driving? Western Union for wire fraud? UPS for shipping stolen goods? No they are means to an end, and in the end that lady wanted to screw with that girls head and got what she wanted.
- schuder, on 08/05/2008, -3/+27Sue for what? Lori Drew is a scumbag but she was within her rights by the first amendment. Do it the old fashioned way and throw a brick through her window, light a cross on her lawn and make her feel unwelcome until she is ostracized and moves or something. Relying on the government to do anything right usually leads to unintended consequences.
- inactive, on 08/05/2008, -2/+18I learned how to yell "KKKKKKKKKKKHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!"
- mithrasinvictus, on 08/05/2008, -1/+17Isn't there a more appropriate law? What if the mother had written letters to impersonate someone and get the girl to commit suicide? Would she walk?
- frontporsche, on 08/05/2008, -0/+16> At one point, Evans allegedly sent a message to Meier saying, "You are a bad person and everybody hates you. Have a ***** rest of your life. The world would be a better place without you."
Dear Evans, same to you. - deweyhewson, on 08/06/2008, -0/+15"As far as I'm concerned, smoking, alcoholic, and drug using parents, and parents of obese children, to name a few examples should be punished bigtime for neglect and their children be put into responsible hands. THAT is how we protect the children, not by making more freedom-limiting laws."
Are you kidding me? You're obviously not a parent or you would never have written or agreed with that statement, and I grow tired of people making extreme judgment calls on things they have no experience with. Parents CAN NOT - and should not - control everything their children do, and even the best parents can and do have kids that are simply screwed up and make poor choices. You actually support the idea of taking children away from parents because of that? Wow. Just wow.
As far as this story was concerned, the teenage girl in question obviously had issues. I don't think anybody is arguing different. But this woman was not just some random troll. She deliberately cyber-stalked and emotionally abused this girl. It is absolutely disgusting for an adult woman, herself a parent, to do something like that.
Maybe the girl already had issues, but this woman certainly didn't help, and she pretty much proved herself to be among the scum of this planet. - Hetman, on 08/05/2008, -2/+16She broke the rules of aggrement as soon as she posed as an underage kid. It explicitly stats when you sign up for myspace that you cannot impersonate an underage kid. Secondly Myspace is a privately owned orginization. Any website can determine what it feels to be acceptable speech and unacceptable speech.
- Sraza, on 08/05/2008, -2/+14What has happened is above and beyond talking *****.
The EFF is right, it should not be illegal to break a ToS. - inactive, on 08/06/2008, -1/+13This isn't about trolling or flaming. It's about outright stalking and planned harassment. The victim wasn't random, but chosen due to a personal vendetta against her.
- shotgunefx, on 08/06/2008, -5/+17From what I saw of it, the girls parents didn't seem neglectful, but even if they were, there is absolutely no excuse for an adult, to be harassing a kid like that, ***** none. You know, there are reasons kids are treated different than adults legally, because they're kids for chrissake.
And did the girl have problems? Yeah, but pretty much every kid does at that age does to some degree. Puberty is basically hormonally induced insanity.
Would I blame the victims parents if they shot that c**t, Lori Drew, in the face? Not at all. I hope they don't because they'll just be throwing what's left of their lives away, but morally, I wouldn't even blink.
But to lay all the blame on the victim's parents, from what evidence I've seen, is just insane. Maybe this is the wrong way to go about it legally, but to say that cow has no fault is just nonsense. - Genecalypse, on 08/06/2008, -0/+12How can an adult even think about doing that? It really boggles my mind when an adult needs to harass a kid, while hiding behind the ***** computer.
- jayb1rd, on 08/06/2008, -1/+12Which means she broke Myspace's TOS but not any law. The most Myspace could have done would be to remove her account and/or possibly block her IP.
- jayb1rd, on 08/06/2008, -0/+10Why not a civil suit? Or just harassment charges?
- Biller13, on 08/06/2008, -0/+10I understand what you are saying norman but this goes behind calling someone a name. Insulting someone that results in a suicide should never result in any kind of prosecution but this goes far and beyond that. This is serious harassment, not even by her peers but by adults. Everyone dealt with that when we were 14, some more than others. Most of us learned to either cope with it or stand up for ourselves. But an adult harassing a child is a different situation, this isn't a schoolyard bully making fun of her. This is a women who needs to be made an example of, if I was the girl who committed suicides father I would be in jail now for what I would have done to that woman.
- inactive, on 08/06/2008, -0/+10Oh my goodness if i hear that stupid ***** meme again...
- lisaawesome, on 08/06/2008, -0/+10Actually I read a while back that the neighbors were making her feel very unwelcome and the lady wanted to move.
- inactive, on 08/05/2008, -4/+13Um, it's not against the law to talk *****, or we'd all be doing time.
- lulzy, on 08/06/2008, -1/+10yeah i would definately just ***** her car up and take a ***** on her lawn instead of trying to involve the government
- Doriath, on 08/06/2008, -0/+8You're being dugg down for missing the fact that she _is_ being criminally charged with violating those terms of service. I'm not sure how you missed that fact when you read the article.
- artfuldodga, on 08/06/2008, -1/+9this is why you can block individuals, problem.. solved, oh yeah ... and don't kill yourself because someone dislikes you
- RoboRay, on 08/06/2008, -0/+7It will take 11... days to repair the justice system, by the book, Captain.
- HonestAbe, on 08/06/2008, -1/+8***** norman619. What a lousy piece of *****. Die in a fire, you ***** prick.
- ELCad, on 08/06/2008, -0/+7 Spock: My father says that you have been my friend. You came back for me.
James T. Kirk: You would have done the same for me.
Spock: Why would you do this?
James T. Kirk: Because the needs of the one... outweigh the needs of the many. - lisaawesome, on 08/06/2008, -3/+9I think that sums up everything I would like to say regarding this case.
- Biller13, on 08/06/2008, -0/+6I would also add you can't always tell what your kids are doing online. My cousin who's 15 always hides what she is doing online, I had to go snooping around to find her myspace for my aunt. There is only so much she can do, my cousin goes on the computer for "homework" and goes on myspace. I would also say that suicidal people are not always "losers", run down social outcasts. Remember the model that killed herself a few weeks ago? She was gorgeous, had plenty of friends and a career that was taking off. No one who knew her saw that coming. I agree parents need to take more responsibility but when an adult targets a child there is only so much you can do.
- inactive, on 08/06/2008, -0/+6You speak of blaming the child's parents for some sort of neglectful action that lead to their kid going suicidal. There are two huge problems with your assessment:
1. depression and suicidal behavior in children *can* be caused in part, or in most by the parents, but this is not always the case. It isn't even mostly the case. You're announcing the guilt of the dead child's parents without knowing anything at all about her home environment.
2. you speak of how "irresponsible parents are these days", but you didn't mention the behavior of the mother who posed as a teenage boy specifically and solely to brutally harass a child. The parents of the dead child would have to be pretty ***** low down to come anywhere near the irresponsible behavior of the harassing mother. - Alphabet, on 08/06/2008, -0/+6Yes, but does it deserve a criminal court case? How many times have you lied on those "what age are you" questions before you enter a site? I'm over 18, but I usually put some ***** birthdate like 1/01/1901 just to get inside.
But something like that shouldn't deserve jail time. It basically makes the majority of the U.S. a criminal because I'm sure you have, at one point in time, lied about something in your profile. - urgeigh, on 08/06/2008, -0/+5I dunno what to say about this, it's really sad. Obviously the girl had other "issues" if she killed herself over that, but at the same time, the woman acting like a teenage boy just to ***** with some girl is seriously twisted and in my opinion should face some sort of reasonable consequence for her actions.
- Super6, on 08/06/2008, -1/+6The girl had a history of emotional problems so letting her on myspace, which is pretty much a shouting match of girls calling each other whores, was probably not a sound decision
- Alphabet, on 08/06/2008, -0/+5I don't see how a DMCA takedown has anything to do with cyber bullying.
- TheMachine1, on 08/05/2008, -6/+11A TOS agreement is a agreement between private parties. The right to free speech does not to apply to communications on private property. Breaking a TOS is more than a simple civil violation to. Its like reading a sign at Walmart that says employees only and deciding to walk right in. Thats trespass a criminal offense. This person walked right in that employee only door by making an account in violation of the TOS and then trashed the place.
- SugarCoatedSalt, on 08/06/2008, -6/+11except a social life amirite?
- adarkmethod, on 08/06/2008, -0/+5the problem isnt that the adults here shouldnt be charged and punished, its that they shouldnt be charged with what they were. Their crimes were harrassment and involuntary manslaughter, no TOS needs to come into play
- gcnaddict, on 08/06/2008, -1/+6RIPGeorge, keep your 4chan ***** off of digg.
- saejinn, on 08/06/2008, -0/+5If the EFF loses this case then, technically, couldn't this mean I (or anyone else for that matter) could host illegal content on my/their own server (child porn, certain kinds of warez or torrents etc.) and write in the Terms of Service something along the lines of "No Police Allowed. In fact, no one is allowed on this server."
Then, if I was later arrested for the hosting of illegal wares, I could push for federal charges against the police department/officer(s) who visited my site and got me in trouble?
This could be the greatest loophole for cyber criminals yet! - nobodyman, on 08/06/2008, -0/+5The differences in this case is that it wasn't some kid calling another kid names. This was a grown woman taunting a child. Also, Lori Drew *knew* that this girl was suicidal (she was even aware of her previous suicide attempt) and *still* insisted on mocking her. She should have known better.
Still, I agree with the EFF that prosecuting Lori Drew under this "computer fraud" law will set a very scary precedent. - ultraseamus, on 08/06/2008, -0/+4It is at least comforting to know that the woman who did this must be going through hell in her community.
- cryonix, on 08/06/2008, -1/+5when it comes down to it, receiving threatening letters in the mail would be handled strictly and the person responsible for those letters would be held accountable for the repercussions of the letters. Email, messages, IM, is just a faster way of delivering the content of such threats.
No offense to anyone intended, but kids these days need to grow a pair. Its sad that people resort to such levels of harassment, but its also sad when kids take anonymous threats to heart and at such drastic results. When I got threats online, I handled it like a man. By preemptively confronting the culprit. Catches people off guard when you call them on BS in person. - inactive, on 08/05/2008, -2/+6She lose her iPod too? What a bad day...
- SmokedL, on 08/06/2008, -0/+4So charge her with harassment.
Making breaking a TOS a federal crime is nuts.
I'll bet just about anything that such a law would make you a criminal. How many TOSs have you actually read? How many times do you think you've done something they said you were not supposed to do?
Have you read diggs TOS?
How about your ISPs?
How about your email providers? - vogelshock, on 08/06/2008, -2/+6Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress, Negligent Infliction of Emotional Distress, Wrongful Death, Negligence, and I'm sure a few more torts I can't think of off the top of my head. The First Amendment does not remove liability from a tortfeasor.
- theskillwithin, on 08/06/2008, -1/+5YES because there is no proof that the letters caused the suicide in an already suicidal person
- vogelshock, on 08/06/2008, -0/+4I am a third-year law student. TheMachine1 makes a compelling argument. Also, you seem to overlook that the government my criminalize any behavior it so desires, so long as that criminal statute does not violate a person's constitutional rights. Granted, the EFF is arguing just that (re: freedom of speech); however, there may be nothing improper at all with criminalizing the violation of a ToS. Luckily, we have courts, and not the digg.com discussion threads, to sort out these issues.
- Doriath, on 08/06/2008, -1/+5You better pray she doesn't commit suicide now, or you may be next up on federal charges.
- inactive, on 08/06/2008, -0/+4True, but violating the MySpace ToS or whatever is not illegal.
- SmokedL, on 08/06/2008, -0/+4"This isn't about trolling or flaming. It's about outright stalking and planned harassment"
Agreed. And that should be prosecutable.Trying to make breaking a TOS into a federal crime though..... That's insanity. -
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