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- jhuebel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree with Dvorak. This is a stupid idea and won't work.
- Camman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1this post is just wrong. They aren't going to charge users "like the post office" , they're going to charge companies to bypass spam filters, which is still pretty shady, but nothing like what the user posted for the description of this article. Geez, try and get atleast a remote idea of the story before posting.
- shinsetsuguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Notice that the friend who uses digital signatures at the bottom, is no other than Leo Leporte from TWIT.They talked about this in a podcast, and Dvorak complained about Leo sending him mail this way. Even though Dvorak is a total contrarian, he's right.
- plamoni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I get no SPAM" - John C. Dvorak
- elfguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2There's a lot of misrepresented facts. What they will do is charge companies to be put on a special list, so that when emails from them come in to AOL, they will not be handled by the spam filter, and will have a "certified" notice added to them. So no, individual people won't need to pay to send email to AOL subscribers.
HOWEVER, this also means that they will have the ability to speed up delivery of those "certified" emails, and slow down all other mail, claiming that their spam filter is taking more time or whatever. So it is conceivable that at some point we'd end up with non paying emails being droped or delayed, which brings us back to the "tier internet" thing. And because of that, this whole idea is VERY BAD. - lofgrenator1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dvorak is a pain, but he is right that it won't work. A whole new email system is needed, and this time they need to consider spam and security right out of the box.
- tdkme, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dvorak Rules! Cuts through the bull and gets to the point!
- LooterMcBeer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Problem with charging a user is AOL accounts get compromised all the time and then used to send out spam. AOL would then charge the user for all the spam sent and wouldnt offer a refund and blame it on the consumer for not securing their account when AOL security is the real issue. Of course you can say well its the users fault for not being secure but lets be realistic 90% of pc users dont know anything about security nor will they probably ever use it. If they do then alot of us wont have jobs.
- wilf_brim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0As above, this is John "I get no spam" Dvorak (a twit joke, for those not in the know). Also, why wasn't this on "dvorak.org/blog"? (another insider twit joke).
That out of the way, I think he is right. I just don't see how this will work. The deal is that you have to pay for HTML email delivery. OK, then the spammers will just go pack to text. I get a ton of that, too (although, to be honest, between server side filters and Eudora's spam filters (which are well trained at this point) they get about 95-98% of it). Still, plenty of plain text messages about p3n1s enlargment p1lls. - Brutis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0LOL he is talking about Leo when he says his "friend uses a digital signature" for email
he has made fun of him on TwiT about it before - Furious, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I blame Microsoft. It is always there fault.
- stevec5000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dvorak missed the whole point of this. They aren't stopping SPAM but making money on it. If the Spammers pay then their messages will go through.
- boshaus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0obligatory dvorak quote:
The Macintosh uses an experimental pointing device called a "mouse". There is no evidence that people want to use these things.
- John C. Dvorak, SF Examiner, Feb. 1984.
Dvorak is a moron.. just ignore what he says, whether it be right or not. - z.unit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I thought he got no spam? :)
there's gotta be something better then whitelist and it's ilk, i've trained thunderbird for months and i still get the occasional "Kids love floam!" spams >:( - Phoenixfury, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I have two AOL accounts. The main one that has gotten spam from day one just by simply using it, and one that has never gotten spam since I don't use e-mail from it. The moral of the story is if you actually use AOL e-mail (or Yahoo for that matter) you'll get spammed regardless of who you e-mail. On the other hand I've been using Gmail for pretty darn close to a year now and have had maybe one or two spams get by the filters. I think AOL and Yahoo need to figure out what Gmail's doing right instead of trying to make a buck off the commercial spammers. Allowing a commercial entity to pay to prioritize sending junk to my e-mail is still spam and degrades their service even more. What in the hell are they thinking?
- foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"I know it's anecdotal, and others have had problems with Gmail spam, but I find it quite good at filtering spam, especially compared to my Hotmail account. I spend more time deleting junk in Hotmail than reading actual email."
what else is google filtering? what if you ACTUALLY won a sweepstakes!? yeah, right. although, it makes you think... ;) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0he gets NO SPAM. Don't listen to him. He's not representative.
- GuineaPig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've been using Gmail since it was first launched, and I've received a total of six spams (in my inbox). Those were all clustered at the beginning of using the service, though.
I know it's anecdotal, and others have had problems with Gmail spam, but I find it quite good at filtering spam, especially compared to my Hotmail account. I spend more time deleting junk in Hotmail than reading actual email. - Tezkah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"The problem is that I've been using the dreadful Microsoft Outlook Express (don't ask why, I have my reasons). "
The reason is that you are a ***** retard.
Anyone who uses OE should not be listened to when they give their opinion on email. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0anyone who likes AOL knows nothing about computers point blank!
anyone who uses Yahoo as the place on the net wants subjected to adds and should be shot or set on fire ...does this sound like bashing yeah it is they are the worst company's of all time. - mgrasso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think a tiered system would work. For example, the first 100 emails every day are free, then start charging. It's the bulk senders that are the problem.
- foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Actually, that's defaced idea originally (I guess) by Esther Dyson. She proposed that sending an e-mail would deduct, say, 50 cents from you account, BUT if the recipient would answer you, you get your 50 cents back. That would discourage mass mailing (no one would answer spam leaving spammer with huge amount on the minus side) but would be free for normal users."
too bad that's not what aol and yahoo are doing. also, $.50 is a little bit TOO much. even REAL postage doesn't cost that much. maybe something within the $.01-.10 range would be nice. i'd even pay as much as $.15. - foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0and, yes, dvorak does "blast" too much, but i like his "rants." that's what makes dvorak dvorak! he kicks ass!
- raccettura, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Email signatures work (I've used them for years).... he's wrong there.
But he's right that AOL and Yahoo's plan is just a get rich quick scheme. - UNL1M1T3D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Good.
- Dennern, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dvorak is just my kind of guy... Which is why I listen to TWIT....
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0For what it's worth, Yahoo!'s spam filters seem to work pretty well for me. I've had a Yahoo! mail account for years now. Don't know if that has anything to do with it. And it doesn't really help Yahoo!'s bandwidth costs, as the messages still come through, they just get put in the junk folder. But if they start charging for mail in any way, I'm outta there.
- htaler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Actually, that's defaced idea originally (I guess) by Esther Dyson. She proposed that sending an e-mail would deduct, say, 50 cents from you account, BUT if the recipient would answer you, you get your 50 cents back. That would discourage mass mailing (no one would answer spam leaving spammer with huge amount on the minus side) but would be free for normal users.
- TAGG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0WTF
If they can create billing system to change user for each email message - then why they are unable to create system to limit number of email messages one user (from compomised system) can send during one day ? - GnoWhey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is only going to be used to get legitimate bulk mailers out of the spam folder, it has nothing to do with regular users. Nothing to do with a multi-priority delivery system. Simply a more automated way of handling a whitelist. Instead of calling and negotiating with a person, it is being outsourced to a company you pay to "certify" that you are not sending spam. If you screw up, and send spam, you will still get de-listed. This will not result in regular mail being delayed and will have no net affect on the spammers. If anything, it may allow the spam filters to be more aggressive against spam without worrying about killing legit mail.
This is a good thing. - hadem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0So what ***** are going to pay to send an email? Anyone can sign up to Gmail through their mobile phone now. Gmail has more space and isn't ***** like AOL or Yahoo. (Yahoo doesn't deserve the !, they just get a period.)
- foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0last one here! :P
actually, i use yahoo for my junk mail account. everybody should have one. however, sometimes i give it out to friends, because most of my spam goes in the junk box. once a month i might have to report 5-10 emails as spam, and delete them out of my inbox. now, if that's not good, then i don't know what is! - PokySharpy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I heart Dvorak.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dvorak was probably like, "They try to blast me out on MTv. Tee hee!"
- Sabot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Wow! This is a strange day. This is the first day that Dvorak has made any sense. Is this a sign of the Apocalypse?
- FullMetalMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I use gmail so doesn't involve me.
As for Yahoo and AOL users! He! he! he! he! he! he! he! he! he! he! - lexbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dvorak even blasted Leo on the last TWiT.
- Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The way I see it, this will just allow people to pay to bypass spam filters.
- Filoviridae, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0And thus the death of Yahoo email began...
- JackDoyle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Maybe I'm missing the point.. but even if they did go through with this, and say I was an AOL user (of course I'm not, but to try to understand how it works) and signed up for the $.0025/email plan.
I start sending emails. I've sent four so far.. only a penny. Great deal.
Now, my question is this... how does this help to prevent me from receiving spam? - idiggit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sure paid e-mails will work, but only until some find exploits and abuse them.
Dvorak just states the obvious. - Cyberdactyl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0
Dvorak is right here, but he's still a old ugly wart on the internet's backside.
I'll never understand why Leo puts up with the sour attitude on TWIT. There are DOZENS of IT savvy dudes he could have on as a side kick instead of this smart ass. - MilenkoD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"..For what it's worth, Yahoo!'s spam filters seem to work pretty well for me...." Me too. I have an SBC Yahoo account and the spam filter catches about 99.9% of the crap if I use their web-based mail. My wife uses yahoo as a pop account through Outlook and gets penis enlargments, Viagra and free lesbian date advertisemetns all day long....wait a minute, she's been wearing alot of flannel lately too....
- neoDingo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Instead of focusing on the real problem they see it as an opportunity to make more money. Yahoo used to be a leader in innovation, now they share headlines with AOL, what a shame.
- idiggit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sure, paid e-mail will work, but only until exploits are found and abused of.
Dvorak has a big mouth, but this time he's stating the obvious. - TonyG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dvorak is dead on
- flashmaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'd like to hear what he says about Yahoo paying people to search.
http://digg.com/technology/Yahoo_wants_to_buy_your_loyalty - ArchibaldTuttle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0lets all hang on dvoraks every word....
- TortfeasorG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I get more junk snail-mail than junk email. Spammers spam because it's profitable...even if they have to pay
- hypnotiq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0His comments about PGP are retarded.
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