What is Digg?86 Comments
- bakerw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2even if they dont save a ton of money, why would you purposely waste even more gas by buying a hummer or some other gas-guzzling crap machine? kinda over-compensating if you think you need a 5000 hp chevy superjet 7i to get to work in ny,ny when you could buy a hybrid for the same price and not waste some much gas/let off so much CO2. if you cant afford either, get what you can (which is probably a smaller, cheaper car w/ good gas mileage anyway), but if you could get either a gas-munching-pac-man-on-steroids-monstrosity or a nice, quiet hybrid that you might actually get use out of and help NOT sink florida at the same time, why wouldnt you get the hybird? unless you have a sponsor and drive in 500 circles in one sitting (nascar reference, stupid-face) are you going to use the extra speed your car punces out? NO!
get a hybrid and a life - dna42fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2ps-don't google 'peak oil' but wiki it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil - Jyakku, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hybrids are a great idea but the article is right. They don't save you money - they only make you FEEL like you are saving money (kinda like buying a windows computer ;-)
I was thinking of getting a Hybrid Estima and my car dealer did the math for me and showed me how it would not save me money (I have a really good car dealer - no ***** - that is why I keep going back to buy new cars from him) Another thing he pointed out which others may not be including in their calculations is that if you use the car long term, at some point you are going to have to replace all the batteries as well. And that can be quite costly I gather. - Optimus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's not about the world "running out of gas". It's called Peak Oil. Google it.
Later. - sykotic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hybrids are a temp solution until hydrogen fuel car. They are a good step towards saving our non-renewable resource known as gas. You pay more for them as anything new in this world. Meanwhile gas is at ridiculous rates and we're lucky in the US because gas is far more expensive around the world. Eco-conscious and economically responsible is a bad thing? no digg.
- maqo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Let's stop perpetuating the mythology that hybrids are intended to save consumers money. The point of hybrid vehicles is--and always has been--fuel conservation, not cost savings. They've never been advertised by the automakers as anything else, so please, stop digging this and move on.
- thing-fish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This article is ignorant. Mago is right on here in the comments. There's more to it than saving money: I'll pay the extra out of my pocket to *lower our dependency on foreign oil* and to *have fewer emissions*.
- Jyakku, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1All that said, Hybrid cars DO save gas - which is a non-renewable resource. I would suppose that they also pollute less - at least air pollution, I don't know about total pollution what with all the old batteries that will be generated. So if you are Green or conservation oriented, Hybrid are a very good thing. But they are not yet a very good thing from a economic stand point unless you are using the car a helluva lot and/or the price of gas goes way up.
I think the government subsidies for these should go up to the point where it IS an economically good thing. We only have so much oil and we need to conserve it. Also it will help reduce our dependence on foreign oil. - geek_xyu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This sounds like spin. This guy is from Detroit(Motor City) could he be getting payed to make hybrids sound bad? Perhaps. Everyone wants to argue that we aren't running out of gas but lets take a look at world events. We bombed a country to hell in back with our first concern being to secure their fuel source. If we hadn't done that we would be held at the throats by countries which choose how much we pay them for their oil. Why wouldn't it be a good idea for us to become more responsible and invent a fuel source that we can produce for less. We are supposed to be leading the way to a better future yet everyone wants to live in the past. They want to ignore pollution and global warming. OK lets say those are issues that solve themselves, don't you want to do everything you can so your children don't have to clean up after us. Don't you want your children to have it better than you? What harm does it do?
- Motobike_man, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2OMG we are going to run out of gas!! In 2013, holy crap what am i going to do!?!?!
Thanks a lot Nostradamus - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> People have been saying "we'll run out of gas
> in a few years" throughout the 20th century.
As somebody who *REMEMBERS* the 70s oil crisis and as somebody who grew up through the 80s and 90s thinking the we had better find a better way to get our fat asses moved from point A to point B, I can honestly tell you that it doesn't matter if we're entering peak oil or not. All that matters is that the fear and solutions become *REAL* this time around. If fscking hope oil hits $15/gal. and the oil companies have my full support to gouge the American consumer to the fullest extent that they can. This is the *ONLY* form of economic incentive that Americans seem to understand.
> Did it ever happen [again]?
Apparently.
> So in 100 years it went up 2 dollars, and in
> one year a whole dollar.
Yeah, but... you don't remember when gas hit $2.40 during the 70s/80s. Do you know what that would be in today's dog dollars?
What the world actually need is a *MUCH* better battery. In fact, I would go as far to say that a 10x improvement in current battery technology would be more significant and profound than the their semi-conductor "revolution". Personally, I'm surprised that materials physicists aren't paying more attention to the problem.
> I really wish car companies would quit pumping
> money into hybrids and start coming up with
> mass market fuel cell vehicles.
Lacking a better battery, what the world needs is a fuel cell that will run off gasoline. All you need to know to understand why hybrids are high on the automakers' list of "can do real soon now" technology is that there is about 40+ years of research and tooling to produce reliable internal combustion engines... anything else is radical shift that will require 20+ years to achieve.
What I'm looking forward to is having 4 electric motors capable of putting 100 break horse power on each wheel and a megawatt battery/fuel cell in the trunk. I'm also looking forward to ditching the traditional engine/power train meme that is only ~10% efficient. The fact that engineers haven't progressed past the internal combustion engine in 60+ years is *PATHETIC*. - JoeDonH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I just find it too funny how people keep trying to take a dump on the Hybrid movement. What the ***** do you care if I buy and drive one? Why try to dissuade me from it - are you a shill for the oil companies?
Personally, I'd buy one for it's super-low emissions and excellent gas mileage, so I guess that makes me a dirty hippie or something. I just find it weird that someone would want to tell me I shouldn't buy a car that has low emissions and uses less natural resources. Maybe if I buy and Echo or a Civic I'll spend about the same, or maybe a little less in gas, but am I cutting down emissions as much as well? My hunch is that people aren't just buying these things because they think they're going to save a ton on gas money - maybe they like the feeling that they are doing something better for the environment. Everyone loves selective benefits. No digg. - cnycompguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1it's not supposed to save money, but i but youll want to breathe still in 10 years.
- pablojose, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1When cars we're invented, gasoline cost pennies per gallon. Last year it was around 2 dollars a gallon. This year 3 dollars. So in 100 years it went up 2 dollars, and in one year a whole dollar. I wonder if this Detroit reporter factored that into his equations. Let me check the article...nope he didn't. He assumed gas will be 3 dollars a gallon for the next 16 years.
Honda makes a regular civic, and a hybrid civic. Same car, one uses less gas. You'd have to be a complete moron to get a regular one. And by the way oil is not a renewable resource. In smaller terms for some people to understand: we can run out of oil, it's not a myth. Wiki it, google it, hell even go to a library. - lordsandwich, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Hmm. Something to think about during my morning subway commute.
- slang75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1He's comparing a base model Civic ($15k) with a Prius ($23K). Of course it's not going to even out. The Prius comes with many more features than a Civic, plus it's a bigger car. If he did the same comparison with a car that was more like it, say an Accord, the difference would be much larger.
- moisie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hybrids are not sold as money savers because they aren't. In terms of economy they're the closest environmental altenative there is. What I think should be remembered is that as more people buy them they will go down in price, the same as any technology.
- dna42fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0ooh, 400hp in a cj jeep. what fun. do you mudbogg or rockclimb?
- bubbazanetti, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0We will not be able to convert over to hydrogen, or all electric, or Mr. Fusion cars all at once...you need cars to generate support for the infrastructure, you need the infrastructure to supply fuel to the cars.
The first Gasoline powered cars were treated the same way, they were expensive, only one location in a large city had fuel...and it was with cans...not a pump. It was a toy for the early adopters. Everyone else was just fine with their hay eating methane polluting 1 horsepower vehicles.
The facts are, we need to lower the emissions...like LA on a brown day...and it would kick ass to have others dependent on our bio fuels.
For the record...have a 400hp Jeep CJ-5 in my garage...just for fun. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Crotch Rocket style (ducati, ninja, etc.) motorcycles get approximately 47-60 mpg; while touring (harley, bmw, etc.) get approximately 30-40 mpg.
Cycles 4 teh win - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Edit to last post; touring cycles get a little more, 30-50 or so. I am basing this off of friends and manufacturer claims.
- xenovoxx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0A chipped 1.9 VW Diesel engine can make 130hp and over 240lb-ft of torque, and if you keep your foot out of it, mileage stays the same (as most of the gain is peak). I won't get into the definition of horsepower, and how it's a function of torque over time. -but uh yeah... it might not be a pocket rocket, but it'll sure get you off the line quick, you don't have to downshift to pass on the highway, and if tire-shredding gets your blood running... well.. all that torque at about 2 grand RPM should satiate that quite readily :)
- DWatch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sooooo many misconceptions and so little time.....
1 - The Danger of Hybrids.
All energy storage methods have dangers associated with them. The rescue workers will simply need to train on the new vehicles, like they have received training on how to handle gas spills. The same will need to happen when hydrogen fuel cell vehicles become more commonplace. As far as they hybrids go, they do crash testing, and have batteries that are engineered to withstand the average crash. There are also gel filled batteries (Optimum) that are used in boating and ATV/off-road use. If you are involved in a major crash, enough to crack open batteries, then you probably have more to worry about than getting acid on you. Also, the system runs from DC current, not AC. DC is far less likely to kill you if you get hit with it.
2 - The Article.
Hybrid cars are meant to save the planet, not cash. This article is typical of the American mindset; whats in it for me, how will it affect my wallet, and to hell with my neighbors and kids and any possible future the world might have. If I can't save a buck right NOW, I won't do it. Sad, but it is a typical short-sighted attitude in America, and most industrialized countries.
3 - Peak oil.
If we continue to use only gas as a fuel, we will run out quickly. It is a finite resource. We WILL run out eventually. If it doesn't happen in my lifetime, great, but it will happen. If we start using alternative fuels to help stretch the supply of gas, the transition to a new fuel will not be as dramatic, and not cost us as much as a sudden drying up of all the oil wells. The switch to another fuel will happen, unless we as a race, riot, destroy, make war, and generally bomb ourselves back to the stone age. Oil will run out, and if we are smart and think ahead, we will have time to develop its successor(s), and not kill ourselves fighting over the last few producing wells in the world.
4 - Alcohol as a Fuel.
This sounds wonder full as a stop-gap fuel to get us by for a little while longer till we find a more permanent substitute. However, it is still a problem when it comes to efficiency. It requires an internal combustion engine to burn alcohol, which is notorious for its lack of efficiency. A new method of turning fuel to locomotion is needed. Hydrogen fuel cells are a good start, but way too expensive and require rare metals that limit the number of units that can be produced. Ultimately, we need a cheap to produce way of converting stored energy to mechanical movement. One that does not destroy our environment. Until then we can use other fuels like alcohol and hydrogen to help us get rid of our oil-centric attitudes. Brazil is a great example of this. They make so much ethanol, they actually have enough to run their entire country and have enough to export as well. They use sugar cane to produce the sugar needed for the yeast, but we can use corn just as easily. I'm sure the government will step in and require a chemical additive to keep people from drinking it, it's moonshine, after all. - motionblur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm sure I'm about to repeat what's already been said here, but hybrids are about more than just saving money.
- theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The only reason people buy hybrids is so they can make themselves "feel good" because they are "doing their part." It's all about contrived selfishness. Most liberals are like this. Without any thought or reason, they form opinions about what "the right thing to do" is. It is much better in their minds to do something because it makes themselves feel important than to make any sense.
That is the reason for the (thankfully now dead) Klinton so-called "Assault Weapons" ban. "If only one child is saved, it would have been worth it!" How many kids are robbed, raped and murdered because their parents aren't allowed to exercise a Constitutional Right and buy a gun for home defense, or are banned from carrying concealed weapons? More than one!
At this point in time, it makes NO SENSE at all to buy a hybrid. NONE. As long as you do the long term math. However, "I am (supposedly) doing something for the environment" is the chant. If something is repeated enough, it must be true! Isn't that what Orwell said? Along with Trotsky.
Want to really do something FOR the environment? Buy a Corolla, carpool in it, install solar panels on your roof (but that's too ugly for here in the Hampton's!) and contact your congressman and senators to get a whole bunch of new nuclear power plants on line. OOH, but that's NUCLEAR! EVIL! Give me a break. - spartan777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0someone does actual thinking, revealing the truth. and we won't run out of gas very soon. there's enough, really, to last us at least another 75 years at the current rate of increase, the EPA just won't let us get to it. The US has lots of oil, like in lake Michigan, lake superior, and tons off the coast of California. its just the EPA and the other hippies. damn them.
- dna42fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i read about that and my truck does low 12s. still, the rescue workers might have to cut through the 'frame' on the cars. if i had a wreck in my truck, i wouldn't have battery acid on me, i wouldn't be electrocuted, if a fire started, chances are i could get out before i am burnt very bad. plus, with the AVERAGE hybrid car, when you push the gas pedal to the floor, all that you get is a quiet little hum. when you push the pedal to the floor in my truck, you get a roar from the exhaust, and the nice scream of pain from the rear tires. i'm a speed junkie. my driving record shows that. i'm not your average joe that just wants a SUV for show. i actually use my vehicles. my chevy blazer (1981 350 v8) goes off road most every weekend. my truck goes drag racing whenever i'm not 4 wheeling. i just hate people who buy a hummer just for "credability" come on. the hummer is one of the most capeable offroad vehicles, yet 98% of hummer owners won't take them on a gravel road even. still, alcohol fuels is where its at. you wouldn't really have to be really dependent on oil, you wouldn't really have to change our existing cars, and, for the people who think hydrogen is the way to go, people don't have the money to go out and buy a new hydrogen car. i don't. all of my money is currently invested into my truck and blazer, both of which i found on a used car lot for less than 1000 bucks. they look like *****, but they run like a bitch, and both have run on E-85 multiple times before, with no change to the carbs or anything.
- pr3sidentspence, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0dna42fan:
if i had a wreck in my truck, i wouldn't have battery acid on me, i wouldn't be electrocuted
-Only home hobby electrics use batteries with lead-acid batteries. Commercial hybrids will not spill battery acid on you.
if a fire started, chances are i could get out before i am burnt very bad.
-Ok, on the one hand you argue that hybrids are dangerous because you and rescue workers might get shocked when using the jaws of life (something I think is a remote possibility) then you say that if a fire starts you could quickly get out of your truck. Don't you see a contratiction here?
plus, with the AVERAGE hybrid car, when you push the gas pedal to the floor, all that you get is a quiet little hum.
-Yes, hybrids will not replace the roar of a V8. But this is an aesthetic choice. Most people who try pure electrics actually prefer the quiet.
i actually use my vehicles. my chevy blazer (1981 350 v8) goes off road most every weekend. my truck goes drag racing whenever i'm not 4 wheeling. i just hate people who buy a hummer just for "credability" come on. the hummer is one of the most capeable offroad vehicles, yet 98% of hummer owners won't take them on a gravel road even.
-That's good. At least you "need" your big vehicles. Nothing bothers me more than people who commute in Navigators and Hummers.
still, alcohol fuels is where its at. you wouldn't really have to be really dependent on oil, you wouldn't really have to change our existing cars
- Alcohol is interesting, but currently it uses more energy to harvest a crop and ferment it than you get in alcohol. The only reason people in the States do it is because it is subsidized.
and, for the people who think hydrogen is the way to go, people don't have the money to go out and buy a new hydrogen car.
- So what you're saying is a hybrid, or a alternative fuel vehicle is not for you. But lots of people DO buy new cars, and lots of people DON'T want to drag race, and lots of people want to use less energy. You say that you can't afford a new vehicle; how much do you spend on gasoline per month drag racing, and off-roading everyweekend? - anagami, on 07/02/2008, -0/+0b/s
- jcolec, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0While you're doing your wiki research on Peak oil...also see this link about the abiotic petroleum origin theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin - charmedguy18, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0not exactly the point. Did you not see the article about the whole "the earth is beyond the point of return" with the whole arctic, ice cap, melting thig? I mean the enviroment is the main cause for these things
- dna42fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@aldimeneira: Whats b/s?
- spartan777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0jcolec: nice link. i don't believe in it, but its still interesting. why don't i believe? well, chicken farmers inadvertently make their own petroleum. the garbage (can't remember if its from butchering or the poop) from raising chickens will accumulate and, after some months, a oily substance will totally replace what was there. this is almost the same as petroleum. petroleum is just there deeper, and for a longer time (no, not millions of years), than this chicken stuff. and this guy who say this on a farm and was told this by the chicken farmer, i met. in real life.
- dna42fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-85
- bloodguard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I looked into Hybrids a while back and decided to go with a Diesel VW Jetta. 17.5K$ off the lot. Gets around 55 MPG for my daily drives. I mostly fill it with renewable domestically produced BioDiesel.
What turned me of about hybrids was the premium price, the fact that you'll be recycling all those batteries in a few years ($,$$$) and they have the pick up of a snail on valium. - wolfger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0A Prius battery is warrantied for 7 years. How long is your fuel tank warrantied for? A lot less than that. Not many people own a new car for 7 years anymore. So battery life might kill resale value, but that's about it.
- themajor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah, hydrogen is clean and is more efficient IN THE ENGINE, but the problem becomes how to harvest the hydrogen. Yes, there is a lot, but you can't just pick it out of the air. Currently, the best way to get it in mass quantities is to gather it from methane, which isn't a clean process. Overall, hydrogen, internal combustion and hybrid cars have approximately the same OVERALL efficiency (factory to wheels power)
- Rhipf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0>hybrids are more dangerous than a regular car. have you ever had
>battery acid on you? imagine that you are in a wreck, and the
>QUARTS of battery acid were to get on you? Now that would hurt.
>What if the rescue workers cut into the battery or a cable with
>the jaws of life, they and possibly you would be killed. The
>batteries in a hybrid are only gonna last about 3 to 5 years. how
>do you dispose of that battery? dig a big ass hole? now won't that
>make all of the treehuggers happy? have fun with your hybrids, ill
>still be driving my ozone depleting, gas guzzling big block Chevy
>pickup. 450 horses baby! lets see a hybrid keep up with that.
I just love this argument against hybrids. Gas based cars are just as dangerous if you look at all the negatives. What if the tank gets punctured in a crash and gets ignited? What if the rescue workers use the jaws of life and accidentally cut into a fuel line?
The cars aren't inherently more dangerous. Rescue workers just have to learn how to rescue people from these vehicles.
I'm not sure where the figure of 3-5 years battery life was pulled from but I will accept this figure and agree that this is a problem but underground fuel tanks that store gas at stations also have been known to leak. Nothing will be 100% environmentally friendly.
Do you actually use your 450hp truck to do more than drive down the highway. If not than what do you really need all that horsepower for? I had a Toyota truck for awhile and it cost me ~$30 a week in gas now that I have an Echo I can get almost two weeks of driving for the same cost in fuel. - jnorris441, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Daily driver? What a prick
- stickyboot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It saves gas and cuts emissions. It's not really a money thing to a lot of people
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i walk to school... why don't people give that old technology a try?
- jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@Rhipf
Nah, you're just a ***** blind lemming...
What if the tank gets punctured? Gas gets spilled on the roadway? ??? Sure isn't going to chemically burn you alive like battery acid.
What if they cut the fuel line? More gas spillage? ??? Sure won't electrocute you.
Listen, you zealots just don't want to see one guys VALID arguement for not getting a hybrid car. He really doesn't get the fuzzies from helping Mother Nature, and just compared how long the gas savings take to pay off. He was even nice and didn't factor in what the locked in $$$ could have done, or inflation, or servicing, replacement, whatnot. He did figure in constant $3 gas, which probably takes into account the former issues, and the tax rebate adds another ~$200 this year, and 2k trailing off afterwards. Turns out the years are long, and he rather not make the monetary trade-off.
He's an economists, this is how they think and work, and thankfully this kind of logic drives the economy. The initial lose leader just doesn't catch up in a prudent time frame.
And for those with their tin foil hats on slightly too tight...
He might be from Detroit but he isn't a gas industry shill you dumb *****. He's a bureau chief for the WSJ. :-/ - EdHaber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0My Escape Hybrid's battery is warrantied for 10 years 150,000 miles.
- dna42fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"i walk to school... why don't people give that old technology a try?"
Because i go to two schools. one a half mile away, the other 10 miles away.
"It saves gas and cuts emissions. It's not really a money thing to a lot of people"
Diesel vehicles produce less emissions than most cars on the road today, plus you can use bio-diesel in them.
http://www.freedomfuelamerica.com/ - pr3sidentspence, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0dna42fan:
What if the rescue workers cut into the battery or a cable with the jaws of life, they and possibly you would be killed.
-High voltage cables will not be running through doors and roofs.
The batteries in a hybrid are only gonna last about 3 to 5 years. how do you dispose of that battery? dig a big ass hole? now won't that make all of the treehuggers happy?
-Automotive batteries are one of the most recycled products.
have fun with your hybrids, ill still be driving my ozone depleting, gas guzzling big block Chevy pickup. 450 horses baby! lets see a hybrid keep up with that.
Ummm... how about this one? http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000123060831/ or this one http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000263054348/ or this pure electric that gets low 12's in the quarter-mile http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/videos.php? ? - dna42fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0>hybrids are more dangerous than a regular car. have you ever had
>battery acid on you? imagine that you are in a wreck, and the
>QUARTS of battery acid were to get on you? Now that would hurt.
>What if the rescue workers cut into the battery or a cable with
>the jaws of life, they and possibly you would be killed. The
>batteries in a hybrid are only gonna last about 3 to 5 years. how
>do you dispose of that battery? dig a big ass hole? now won't that
>make all of the treehuggers happy? have fun with your hybrids, ill
>still be driving my ozone depleting, gas guzzling big block Chevy
>pickup. 450 horses baby! lets see a hybrid keep up with that.
I just love this argument against hybrids. Gas based cars are just as dangerous if you look at all the negatives. What if the tank gets punctured in a crash and gets ignited? What if the rescue workers use the jaws of life and accidentally cut into a fuel line?
The cars aren't inherently more dangerous. Rescue workers just have to learn how to rescue people from these vehicles.
I'm not sure where the figure of 3-5 years battery life was pulled from but I will accept this figure and agree that this is a problem but underground fuel tanks that store gas at stations also have been known to leak. Nothing will be 100% environmentally friendly.
Do you actually use your 450hp truck to do more than drive down the highway. If not than what do you really need all that horsepower for? I had a Toyota truck for awhile and it cost me ~$30 a week in gas now that I have an Echo I can get almost two weeks of driving for the same cost in fuel.
-If a rescue worker cuts into a fuel line, its not going to burst into fire. My friend's dad is a fireman, and his station has vowed not to use the jaws of life on a hybrid if it is in a wreck for fear of their own life. and, yes, i do go drag-racing /w my 450hp truck, and it puts out about the same amount of emmissions as, say, a Chevy S-10. you just gotta know how to tune the carburetor, and i have 4 catalytic converters on it. see, i do care about the environment. - Ferglets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I don't know of a single hybrid owner who bought one to "save money." I bought mine because it qualifies as a low emissions vehicle and because it dumps less carbon into the atmosphere. I "save money" by leaving it parked in my driveway whenever I can--and taking the bus.
- dna42fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0PS-hydrogen is NOT the way to go. it would cost BILLIONS of dollars so add hydrogen fuel support to existing gas stations across the country. Car makers need to start pushing Alcohol based fuel, like E-85. Its 85% Ethanol, 15% Gasoline. Ive ran it in my truck on more than one occasion and it actually made it run better, and it puts out about 75% less emissions than straight gas.
- Heavy_C, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hydrogen is the way to go, it's the most abundant resource in the universe. That's pretty hard to beat. Plus, with a hydrogen combustion engine you can still have a bad ass gas guzzler... except the gas is hydrogen and you don't kill baby ducks.
- dna42fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0HYBRIDS SUCK!!!
-
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