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123 Comments
- phpirate, on 10/12/2007, -8/+199There are many who say that "they deserved it because they are violating copyrights". We could debate for ages on copyrights... but the reason for the demonstration is not all about the copyrights. When a corperation has the ability to munipulate a foreign governments law enforcement and goverment into raiding a legal business (it may not be legal in the US but US law does not apply outside the US), then theres reason to be worried. Corperations are getting greedier and worse as time progresses. In the last decade they've been trying to make as much money as possbile with spending as little money as possible. In the next decade we will likely see more corperations attempting to persade goverments into taking serious actions (legal or not) for their benifit, and we're already seeing the very beginnings of this trend.
- CharlesDarwin, on 10/12/2007, -12/+65Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations finance Team America, and then Team America goes out... and the corporations sit there in their... in their corporation buildings, and... and, and see, they're all corporationy... and they make money.
- ejm508, on 10/12/2007, -7/+44this has nothing to do with piracy...
Its about the fact that the police raided the hosts at the will of corporations, and ones from a whole other country, to boot... - TopherT, on 10/12/2007, -6/+32Wasn't there an article on digg not that long ago about the US refusing to let Russia join the WTO unless they clamp down on allofmp3.com? Seems like a perfect example of corporate cronyism. Seriously though, don't expect your voice to count unless you can donate millions in campaign finance for your cause in return for legislation.
- phpirate, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27I have not watched a movie or bought a CD in a while. I don't download it either, I listen to online radio and I live without the crappy movies that they are making these days.
- Woofcat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26They are not against corporations they are against them having the power to sway two governments. The USA government to make a request to Sweden and Sweden for telling the police to do an illegal search and seizure.
I work for a cooperation and so many others but if Mc. Donald's had the power to make its food mandatory in public school systems you would cry out as well. - bennyboy371, on 10/12/2007, -6/+25I'm going to be dugg down, but it has to be said.
Radiant, get to the back of the bus. - Rufasevach, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16the people protesting have far more ground to stand on by decrying the violation of personal property and civil rights than to debate the legality of copyrights and their protection.
I just wish I could have been there to take part in the demonstration. - Latentk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Stockholm, Sweden.
Honestly, the Pirate Bay's servers held no illegally downloaded contraband. The only thing contained on those servers were the trackers used in Torrents associated with the supposed illegal goods. To me its very likely TPB will win their servers and freedom back simply based on the fact that its going to be far to difficult for anyone to prove they actually broke any Swedish laws... - EmileVictor, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17Wow, wherever it is they're holding those demonstrations is pretty.
- TopherT, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Oh, i'm sorry, i thought authors wrote boots and musicians made music. So in actuallity its huge marketing firms which collectivly make so much innovative entertainment? Wow, thats incredible.
- actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Interestingly, the articles I've read about the Swedish laws don't mention the US, they mention the European Union and, um, the Swedes:
http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1496&date=20050526
http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1457&date=20050519
http://www.drmwatch.com/legal/article.php/3508086 - JustMatt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I love how people act like American laws apply everywhere.
- bennyboy371, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12You know, I've been reading the comments on all these for a long time, and I've only seen a few people say they deserve it for free, and they get dugg down. Thats not what the piracy is about either. If I download a movie and absolutely love it, I buy it. If I download music, well thats a different story for me. When a corporation starts suing families of 12 year olds for thousands of dollars, regardless of whether its legal or not, its ludicrous. Theres something wrong with that. I realize that downloading copyrighted works is wrong, but so is what they do, and I just plain don't have a problem taking low quality files that I'll delete later on as is. I'd buy the CD for quality and presentation, and the quality of signed music in general is in a vast decline.
NO ONE here is arguing to give it to us for free. If it was a 100 dollar fine, I'd be all for it. If they had a service like AllOfMP3 with cheaper prices than here (why is it roughly the same price of a CD as it is downloads?) and no DRM, then I would get a job simply for that service.
I don't act like its better for the world, I don't act like its legal, I don't act like its the right thing to do. At this point, I believe the right thing to do would be to download an album and send the artist 10 bucks. Movies are worth the price if the movie doesn't suck, which also contributes to piracy.
You can act high and mighty like everyone else is wrong, but don't ignore the reasons everyone else has just so you can believe we're all morally corrupt.
The concept of black people (I hate political correctness) and the buses was brought up. You genuinely seem to be the type of person to say that they shouldn't have done anything whether it was wrong or not, it was the law. Laws are not always right, the way right laws are carried out are not always right. This is the problem now. Look up the case of Shawn Hogan and comment on THAT. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16I honestly don't get this. They're fighting for the right to ... steal? I mean, we can go through all the finer points of the Swedish legal system, international copyright law, industry associations overstepping their bounds, the finer points of BitTorrent technology and morally relativistic justifications, but at the end of the day The Pirate Bay encourages and provides unfettered access to mass piracy of works under copyright. The thing is, I make and sell my own music, photography, writing and art. I'd be ***** if a site could get away with essentially taking stuff that I make and own and allow people to steal it. I mean, it's my decision as to how I want the content I create to be distributed, not you, not Pirate Bay, not Sweden and not whoever.
It seems to me that the best way to stick it to the RIAA and MPAA is to boycott the content under their protection and buy/support independent or non-affiliated film makers, small studios, music labels and artists. If all y'all hate 'em so much, why do you continue to be involved with 'em by downloading their affiliated content? You can't have your cake and eat it to. - actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12@ Hypertime
A very well-made point. The second paragraph is key.
Many here seem think participating in illegal activities is the way to fight current copyright systems, when in all actuality, these activities only are what led to the creation of the MPAA and RIAA. If there were no piracy, there would be no reason for the MPAA and RIAA to exist. Boycott the monster instead feeding it. - mistshadow2k4, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9If more Americans would stand up and protest about corporations controlling the government it might help. We're so accustomed to it that all we tend to do is gripe about it online, whereas numerous Swedes were outraged enough to do something. Maybe if some Americans founded a few special interest groups with an agenda against corporate control and lobbied the politicians are hard as the corporations do it would send a clear message that we don't want to be controlled by corporate interests and don't intend to just take it -- because it certainly looks like we intend to just take it, whether we like it or not, doesn't it?
- snapcase, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8The thing that gets me about this raid, is that they seized all those servers just to "find out" if they were doing anything illegal. Meaning they had no probable cause for the raid, no logical basis for a warrant, and whats worse, is that they openly admitted it. If this logic is used to justify such actions, they could raid the household of any given individual for no reason at all, seize all of their property and arrest them, just to find out IF they were doing anything illegal. Oh yeah, that's a great legal system for ya.
- brian9000, on 10/12/2007, -18/+25Well said.
- streak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6So you believe Sweden sanctions aiding and abetting in the commission of crimes. Interesting (cough!)
- hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6There is no moral high ground. Give it up. The topology of morality is much more complex than that.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9"I honestly don't see how this is stealing any more than..."
For the sake of argument, let's have a theoretical situation where you might download a copy of my album from Pirate Bay. If it's my stuff and I'm selling it and you're downloading digitally indistinguishable duplicates of it, I don't see how that's not stealing. It's up to the copyright owner to decide how his content can be distributed, not some random person on the Internet. If I use Creative Commons, I expect people to respect that license. If I have a more traditional copyright, I expect people to respect that license as well. If you're not happy with the way I license my material, then don't bother with it.
And, well, if you're not down with that, keep on downloadin'. Just don't make up ***** excuses for it. - StaplesGuy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Well that's right. But it's not the corporations that produce the goods. They sponsor and promote said goods. However because a band that I like gets popular and signed to Sony BMG, does that mean that I don't like the band anymore? No.
- lagnut, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7More pictures
http://pbdemo.ath.cx/ - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Not liking the psychopathetic nature of (doesn't care about anything except itself and it's obsession, in this case producing and ensuring large amounts of sustainable profit) the corporate entity, does not mean one loves communism.
For instance, there's a strong free market arguement against patents. Patents are limited monopolies GRANTED BY THE GOVERNMENT.
In fact, a corporate status itself is the government ensuring a group of people will have limited liability, both financially and legally speaking.
You could make the arguement that the government intervening in business in this way is very socialistic, except a special type of socialism, catering to non-human "legal person" entities, not actual people.
So called "free market" activists, normally don't have a problem with big brother when they're handing out subsidy to corporations, when big brother ensures the legislation and judicial rules that enable a corporation to exist in the first place, or to enforce the idea of intellectual property.
There are some true free market types out there, but most are just support a form of socialism that favors corporations and the rich, over everyone else.
Stick that in your cuban cigar and smoke it. - anti-net, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I find it annoying that despite having never visited (nor do i want to, sorry, but there not having my finger prints!) I am still affected by the laws they pass. I think it was a good idea to have a demonstration over this and it was wrong to take them offline with the evidence they have, if what they did was wrong or not, that's a different matter all together. but we all know most of the money from DVD/CD sales goes to the big cheeses!
- actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ kindrobot
You're wrong. Look up the definition of "Piracy". It says nothing about about selling -- it only refers to unauthorized duplication and/or distribution of copyrighted material. - kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"Where the ***** is the logic in that? If a bus was stolen by a member of the civil rights movement, I would imagine he or she would share that bus so others wouldn't have to pay, very similar to the way piracy works."
No. They would then choose who can ride the bus. Anyone can buy a CD. Logic works, yours doesn't. Move on. - antoniojvr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8I love how people like to choose what laws they want to obey. The US was not defending their laws in other countries (you're right, they can't). They were defending US Copyright of the movies. I'm pretty sure the US wasn't out there defending the copyright of Bollywood movies. Let India worry about that.
- dynasty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Well, barring all arguments, good to see youths active in stuff.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I don't think people are making a big enough stink about the other 200 legit sites that were taken down also. That kind of thing is grounds for a legal asskicking.
- junior882, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Uh, this does have to do with piracy. In order to search and seize evidence, there was a sworn affidavit presented to a judge and reviewed/accepted by the judge as probable cause to search the property. The judge authorized the seizure of any property (as defined in the affidavit) as evidence supporting the facts set forth in the affidavit. The evidence seized, after court review for compliance with the affidavit, can be used during a trial to ascertain whether the defendant did, in fact, violate any laws under which they are charged. That's how it works in the US, and I can't imagine it's much different in Sweden.
So, whatever you WANT to believe was the impetus for the search and seizure, it had to first go through the Swedish legal system before the search was court-authorized in the first place. Before spouting off about these things, it's best to have the slightest bit of a clue. Police/law enforcement can't simply decide to "raid" a place before establishing (with evidence) a reason for the search.
Now, the fact that they seized equipment/domains that were not related to pirate's bay, is troubling to me. Impacting legitimate companies and businesses is a serious error and will very much impact this investigation. - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4People don't seem to comprehend it, but....that is precisely the kind of indifferent attitude towards one's rights and freedoms -- -that is attributed to the Hipocampus of the brain.
Such a response is said to be diminished when cells in the hipocampus are killed by the toxic FLUORIDES ---that are added to the WATER all over the US....but have always been banned in Europe.
Just yesterday, digg had a front page story about bottled water, that briefly refered to fluorides without much information.
But how many of us understand that all important point, and the history of such use of fluorides?
Originally, during WW2, the USSR was buying lots up of fluorides from the US, to put in the water supplies of their military prison camps, and when asked, they said it "kept the Germans quiet."
It made them docile, and less motivated to stand up for their freedom -- much like today's fluoridated, submissive masses in the US, so willing to 'bend over' for the corporations or the current government!.
And on that happy note, diggas, I am going out to drink really a lot of expensive, cold sake, here in the east village/NYC.
I expect TPB to be working when I get back! Do your best. - arcele, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I'm not going to pretend to have never used the pirate bay before to get a few torrents here and there, but I have to say, I don't think that anyone should be terribly upset that they were raided. Face the facts, the pirate bay's sole purpose is/was to provide Internet users with a method to steal software, so should we really be surprised that this occurred? Of course not, this is just another bump in the road for piracy.
Look at the history of piracy over the past few years. Around 1998 there was Napster, a network for peers to share their MP3s, within a few years, the RIAA was busting it down and suing everyone in site. Maybe bit torrents are just like those old, more basic forms of P2P networks and I'd be willing to bet that this time two or three years from now there will be a newer, faster, more efficient way to pirate software, and once it goes mainstream and everyone is using it, it will be shut down to make way for a newer, bigger and better alternative. Bottom line is that piracy will never die, it will only get stronger...I don't know if that's a good or bad thing though....just my two cents. - joeshiba, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8The whole fiasco just sucks. We know that the MPAA's efforts are futile. The MPAA probably knows their efforts are futile. The demonstrations, while making for interesting press, do little else than to make known what the corporations are doing. In the end, it's all about the golden rule: whoever has the gold, makes the rules. However much we bitch, they're still going to do whatever the ***** they want. There's just no point. Might as well take what we can while we can. Of course, this writing is probably tainted a bit by my mood, but I digress.
Bottom line: corporations are going to do what they can to protect their profit margins. People like, say, me, for instance, are going to say "***** you guys", and pirate away. It's just the way things are. - NicP, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4congratulations, you are one of the artists that just dont get it!
- sinfree, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Let's end a thread.
- kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13Last time I checked, when you steal a bus, no-one else can ride in it.
When I last checked, I also noticed that when I download a song, others
can still buy the CD if they so choose. - hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Sometimes the law of a country demands that its soldiers commit war crimes or that it's citizens do nothing when such war crimes are committed. Doing something illegal in that case is clearly morally superior than obeying the law. The point of this is to illustrate that an action or inaction being illegal is insufficient to determine the moral superiority of that action.
- Fihiro, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Looks like a few people showed up. We need bigger!
- Wandel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2And that's the reason I think most people went to the demonstration for. Sure, we've all just pirate bay every now and then, and it's techniclly legal, and they shouldn't have taken it down. And they shouldn't have seized servers belonging to completely innocent persons, whose only crime was to choose the same hosting company as the Pirate Bay.
- Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"They were defending US Copyright of the movies."
No, they wanted the site down, not the torrent links linking to US copyrighted stuff. Even if their ultimate goal may be the same, there's a huge difference, and what the controversy is all about. It's clearly legal in Sweden to go after people downloading copyrighted stuff, but not as sure to take down website merely providing indirect links. Actually, a former case about a BBS doing the same (providing information about the copyrighted content locations) was shot down in court and it's this former case TPB is supporting themselves on. - phreakout, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4If you care about protecting your art your will oppose the **AA.
They are destroying the utility of copyright.
They are trying to prevent and control markets where you could sell your work without them taking most if not all of the money.
In fact you are so badly misinformed about selling art I seriously doubt you are an artist.
If as seems likely you are a paid industry schill, think carefully about you should be lined up against a canvas and shot with paintbrushes.
DRM, don't make me laugh - DRM is about market control not protecting art.
They are clearly opposed to art, culture and creativity.
Do you want your are to part of the river of culture or a rock in sandy desert?
Do you wish to prevent the poor from viewing your art?
Do you wish your fans to be sued for enjoying more culture than they can afford?
Does art stem from greed or love and passion? - kennyvader, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So get on a plane and go there - it's an $80 return flight from London. And if you're in a large US city then London may be as little as $350 away (return).
- raid517, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2They could at les a ad the deceny to dress up in pirate's costumes...
GJ - phreakout, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@smhill
I expect the MPAA & RIAA are glad for another rampant apologist.
What does that pay these days ? - phreakout, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There are many demonstrations in the USA - you can find reports on indymedia amongst others.
The problem is your corporate media only prints lies. I think maybe even China has less censorship than the USA now.
Certainly the USA & China are pretty equivilant for human rights abuses.
In China it is mostly for dissent - in the USA it is mostly for percieved ethnicity.
I think the USA has higher gulag rates of imprisonment though.
Perhaps this is not entirely true - but it is not entirely false. - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3LOL I just opened it ( .org), and it showed the usual logo, with "Hollywood' firing cannonballs at the ship.
I tried a search, and it said the search function would be back up later today. - phreakout, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Piratbyran's speech at Reboot
Blow your mind read what the pirate bay are really up to - here is an interview with a founder member who confesses the true motives behind the pirate bay.
http://copyriot.blogspot.com/2006/06/piratbyrans-speech-at-reboot.html - sinfree, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Notice that the ship is actually shooting at Hollywood... and Hollywood is sinking! :-D MWHAHA!
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