What is Digg?98 Comments
- shucklak, on 10/12/2007, -6/+31Just because the best Intel chip can out perform the best AMD chip doesn't mean anything. AMD has proven time and time again that they offer nothing but quality performance in the processors. In no time, AMD will have a chip that will blow the Conroe away and then you will all say how smart Dell was to make a deal with a great chip manufacturer like AMD.
- Seidoger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26ONE MILLLLLLLLLLLION CHIPS
mwhahaha!
hehe. ;-) - ganzhimself, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Now, instead of a $299 system with an Intel Celeron you'll be able to get a system with an AMD Sempron for $199... Sweet!
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14"So why did AMD's stock drop 4.2%?"
Because Woodcrest dropped and everyone on the face of the planet turned and stared in awe.
While this deal is good for AMD, and will continue to be good for AMD for the upcoming months, AMD simply has nothing up its sleeve to combat the press that Conroe, Woodcrest and Merom have been recieving. They're already announcing massive price cuts (which decreases margins on each chip, a big indicator on how healthy the chip company is), and they've had virtually no press about any upcoming products (except for some lax press on K8L, which is a year away, and a few low key rumors about "Reverse Hyperthreading" that have yet to come to any kind of fruition in the form of support documents, platform drivers, etc), which, again, is bad for the company, and furthermore, their deal with Google fell through the floor with Google going back to Intel for the new Woodcrest chips and mega-bandwidth FB-DIMMs they can deliver. To drive the deal home, they're trying to press an anti-trust case against Intel through the courts, which is good press in a sense, but at the same time, negative press (because it looks as if the company simply can't compete, which is a very, very bad message to be broadcasting).
I love AMD to death, but they're in a very grim business location right now; they really needed a stellar year to drive home the wins of the Athlon 64 platform over the past few months, and Intel is about to completely rob them of it. AMD caught Intel with its pants down last time around, and this time, Intel's came back with army boots. - jmccorm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13If only the read the letter from Nigeria more carefully...
Dir Sirs,
My name is Obwatta Dell. I would like to share with you in the strictest of confidence an order for ONE MILLION AMD CHIPS. - RHollister, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13So? Even if it is better whats wrong with a choice and competition? Intel became very complacent, allowing AMD a foot in the proverbial door of a massive builder like Dell will remind Intel not to become complacent again. If Dell had AMD options a year ago Intel could be in a worse situation than it is now.
- gweedo767, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Better off building your own? Right, and I want to have to offer full hardware support to all 140 workstations in my companies four different locations (and those four locations are no where near each other). While sometimes building your own is a good idea, you have to think in a larger volume.
- dbre2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10So why did AMD's stock drop 4.2%?
- chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Finally!
- tyho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Yes competition is very good for the consumer. Now if I could just get another cable co. in my area.
- venir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@ktulu1115
Yes they just started selling Opteron based servers within the last couple months. - jlau85, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Sure you might be better off building your own computer but considering most people don't build their own this is a good thing. More choices is always a good thing.
- motang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Exxceellent!!!
- iluvatar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9dells aren't about high end hardware. The article itself said it had no knowledge of this being an XPS related venture
- ojonesjr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6And I will finally actually buy a Dell instead of just looking at them on the site. Go AMD!!!
- cbreaker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Intel has always outsold AMD. There's nothing to "overtake." And if you're talking about some benchmarks from some new Intel chip, who cares? AMD have historically been back and forth dozens and dozens of times with the "Top Performing x86" chip. AMD just happened to hold the name for quite a bit longer then anyone expected. Good for them. Intel went back to the board and now they have this new one - awesome! Thing is, AMD's prices haven't been exactly low in recent times anymore so I'm looking forward to more back and forth competition.
If it weren't for AMD, we'd be paying up the wazoo for slow chips from Intel still, and if it wasn't for Intel, AMD would BECOME Intel. - commandar!, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@geminitojanus
You're mostly correct, but Intel has already lost market, and more importantly, mind share to AMD at this point. I attended a trade conference last week, and while the Intel rep spent a lot of time hyping up Core 2, he was very aware that he was facing an uphill battle with the crowd. He even made reference to high end servers being one area where "we've lost market share."
Either way, Woodcrest is certainly good, but I'm not yet convinced that it will entirely supercede Opteron. The benchmarks were all good, but it seemed obvious (to me, anyway) that they were all comparing single socket systems. When I asked how Woodcrest performed and scaled in multisocket setups, he more or less dodged the question with "very well." I really think that dual and quad socket servers could be an area that the Opteron continues to shine in relative to Woodcrest due to NUMA and the on chip memory controller. - Hickeroar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I have a feeling that Apple/Intel and AMD/Dell will end up being arch-rivals. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this will all play out.
The industry has been waiting years for Dell to adopt AMD processors. It's about time they finally listened to their customers and the "experts" and did it. - Rush123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This is a great deal for AMD. Now they will get some more shares from Intel. :)
- joelito, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Because of this...
Dude, I'm getting a Dell!!! - ChuckIT, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7hey im running an AMD X2 3800 oc'ed to 2.40 ghz on air. it's rocks. nothing against amd or intel, im not brand loyal.
- venir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@ChuckIT
From TFA:
"If you're still wondering why a market-share leading company like Dell might take the risk and go the competitor's route at the time when new marchitecture from its primary partner is probably set to rock the world, there is only one simple reason: Supply.
Dell can get Conroes and a great share of WoodCrests and take a ticket to stand in line for Meroms, which are scheduled to be split between Apple and Lenovo." - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"When you're going up against INTEL, are you ever in a really *good* business position? AMD has always had to struggle against this 800lb gorilla."
AMD has never had it better. They were in a great business position to really steal some valuable marketshare away from Intel, but oddly enough it was squandered, in doing what I will never know.
If this deal had gone through even two months ago, people would have already been buying AMD systems and integrating them into their current platforms, and maybe people wouldn't have looked back at all to Intel when Woodcrest dropped. But Dell delayed the deal, and Intel made damn sure to launch the world's largest spectacle with their new chip platforms, seeding benchmarks to the crowds, making every tech writer's mouth foam with the possibilities. Even Intel's staggered release of the chips (Enterprise, Desktop, Mobile) is perfectly engineered to strike at the heart of ground AMD had been gaining on Intel.
AMD as a business is a good business. They make products that work, and work very well, and up until very, very recently, were the best in the industry. Instead of keeping the rhythm and going on a marketing blitz parade, walking around the Pentium 4s like a marachi band, they stayed relatively quiet and simply let the tech writers do all of the talking for them. While this is good when your processors are the new hotness, after you've weared on a platform for a year, the benchmarks become stagnated, and you really, really need to do the marketing.
What we're missing are the AMD tv commercials, the AMD spokespeople going around to businesses, the AMD platform is missing essential components (chipsets, Chipsets, CHIPSETS.. and OEM motherboards), they're simply not letting their earnings do the work for them. What we're seeing is AMD playing a very cautious hand against Intel, slowly growing its assets and fabrication capabilities, but because AMD is nowhere near the size of Intel, and they simply cannot match pace with Intel's manufacturing techniques, they really can't afford to play it so slowly (unless they plan on dropping some segment of the market, streamlining their business to do head-to-head competition with only one part of Intel, their server chips, rather than the whole market).
Of course, their gamble now might pay off for them huge, but it'd be a very hard gamble for me to take if I were running AMD, especially with Intel being as cut-throat as they've regeared themselves to being since the end of the Netburst fiasco. - underthewether, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3for better or worse at least they are rounding out their lineup by offering more variety in their systems
- 0FrankthetanK0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Good for AMD to move some volume but I still won't buy a Dell even with AMD inside.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"The industry has been waiting years for Dell to adopt AMD processors. It's about time they finally listened to their customers and the "experts" and did it."
Sure, that's a great sentiment to have.. only Dell's timing could not have possibly been any worse. Now that Woodcrest is shipping (and is just about to hit volume in the channel in two weeks or so), nobody's going to want to buy an AMD box; AMD announces they're cutting production on the last generation socket chips (which means forced board upgrades for a huge share of the AMD market), and system's managers everywhere cringe (and wait for the huge pricebreak so they can stock up on the AMD chips for the long haul on their newly purchased platforms).
Meanwhile, Intel starts shipping a chip that's completely pin-compatible with their previous platform, while offering a huge increase in performance, and a decrease in power draw and heat output. Managers with Intel systems who are about to upgrade are going to take one look at the new chips, and won't even consider moving to AMD, the Intel upgrade path is by far the most simple, most reliable, and definitely the cheapest (buying new CPUs @ $300/machine vs buying new machines at $2+ grand a machine).
Since Dell's biggest customers are entrenched in Intel products, and because all Dell currently sells to the enterprize are big boat Intel Xeon systems, Intel's latest chips have completely decimated the opportunity AMD had to steal valuable market share away from Intel.
If this deal had only gone through even two months ago, the situation could be very different... - V1ncent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There is no indication as to how good Reverse Hyperthreading will work until it comes out. Let's not put the cart before the horse. I love AMD and use them in my system but the whole thing sounds knee-jerkish to me. Their next GEN chips I'm sure will floor us as their AMD 64s have already.
- leodavinci, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@dbre2 I was wondering the same thing... was there some negative earnings report that came out? Or did they take a huge hit on profitibality in selling to Dell?
- tyho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Whether Dell was locked into agreements with Intel or just showed stubborn stupidity in the past, this is a very good move. Choice is good.
- ktulu1115, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Yeah, it's about time. IMHO, they should have offered these a *long* time ago on the desktops. IIRC, they already sell Opteron-based rackmount servers, anyone know for sure?
- rydawg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2bragging rights :)
- chandler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Now if they could only fix their exploding laptops...
- uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Guys (particularly the AMD fanboys)...it's DELL. Even if you ARE a hardcore AMD fan, if you know much about computers, you're probably still going to build your own...and for everyone else...who cares?
- awoodhouse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1For consumers, 64bit is being used at the moment to sell stuff and not for any goood technical reason I can think of. Servers and highend workstations is a different ballgame.
- motang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well same here, I got a HP laptop because they were offering Turion64 and the "bright view" glossy monitor. Very happy with it, and nice to see this with Dell since my work only gets Dell computer.
- h0kiez, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I often wonder if the Dell haters know about the ridiculous coupons and sales that Dell offers. For their regular prices, sure, build your own system. But when you can get a Dual Core E510 with a 24" LCD for
- ChiKoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dell might as well get rid of their XPS division now and save themselves the money.
- u8myfoood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1this is what happens when intel becomes an ass, and offers their newest products to a company like Apple, just as samsung did with their flash...
GJ dell, even though im not a big fan of ur products... showing the Apple supporterstha you can find business deals else where - commandar!, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@geminitojanus again, (you seem to know your stuff ;))
The problem with chipsets and motherboards, is, as you mentioned, fab space. AMD just doesn't have it to spare. That may change as Fab 36 ramps up production, and Fab 30 gets revamped to 300mm but it's not the here and now. AMD's probably taking the best possible approach available to them right now with their CSIP program, essentially partnering with companies such as Nvidia, Asus, MSI, etc to provide a so called "stable platform"
As far as 'dropping off some segment of their market' goes, they've more or less been moving away from the lowest end (and therefore lowest margin) area of the market for a few months now. Better to compete where they're most profitable right now.
The next year should certainly be a lean one for AMD, but this Dell deal will probably help hold them over until they can get something new out the door. Really, the anti-trust suit is looking to be a brilliant move at this point. Intel can't engage in many of the practices they've been famous for for years, even if they're ruled legit at a later date for fear of reprisal later on. Soon after the suit was announced, you started seeing many, many more AMD systems shipping to traditional retail outlets that Intel had previously been keeping AMD more or less locked out of. Given the fact that they're likely going to have to compete on pure pricing, hoping to make margin in volume, for the next year until they can get their next gen chips out the door, getting their foot in the door of the price-conscious retail consumer is probably a very, very good move. - cbreaker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I don't know for sure, but when we speced out some new servers a month ago there was no mention of them.
Hopefully they do release Opteron boxes before we have to buy. We can only buy Dell. - Rickie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Indeed, Good luck AMD ;)
Saw this coming thugh, glad it's finally happened - frgmstr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My thoughts.....
http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MTk3ODcsLCxobmV3cywsLDE= - tyho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This isn't any different, if anything AMD is in a better position than they have been in the past. Yes Intel has a great line coming up but AMD will be back.
- picaman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Dell and AMD sign deal for a 1,000,000 Chips
A 1,000,000 Chips what? There's a word missing at the end. Oh, never mind. It's just more rampant illiteracy. - seventen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ jimboxcr
I would agree right now that's not the case, but how long ago did it feel like this:
1. "A GIG of ram, who the heck needs that much."
2. "128MB video card? Dude, 64MB is totally sufficient"
3. "Check it out man, I got a new 8 GB Hard drive"
4. "I got a bargain on this CD-RW drive, it only cost me $350!"
Believe me, one day that spec you mentioned will be laughed at like the Pentium 2 is today. - diggnationdevon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I also forgot to say, this is one hell of a deal for AMD. Dell let's not forget, even though they're not the best PCs; they still offer a reliable PC for the buck and therefore its still and ideal choice and is the most popular PC manufacturer.
- Zathris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is great news. Now if AMD can seal the deal with ATI that has been rumored, they will have a burst in momentum that I don't think Intel is prepared to deal with.
- jwoelich, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You know, I was thinking the same thing.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The whole thing about 64bit - do we need it? really?"
Not yet, but we will by about 2009, and Intel and AMD both plan on futureproofing their businesses to be backward compatible (since (most) enterprise systems are maintained for at least 3-5 years before being junked).
The odd part is, even though x86-64 looks to be where we're going, it isn't going to be a lot of fun for the programmers in the near future. As CPUs begin to scale up their number of cores (and they're already on the dramatic rise: 4 by Q107, 8 by Q407/Q108 or maybe even earlier), it's going to become more and more cumbersome to program compilers to deal with the oddities (and we'll likely see some new parallelization technologies get integrated into CPUs to pick up the slack, like for example a virtual MIMD instruction set that writes SIMD instructions to multiple processors). I have to wonder if IBM isn't going to clean house simply by being ahead of the game with compilers and technology for SIMD and MIMD on PPC. - Septimus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Strange they do this now. I could understand a year or more back, but with Core 2 Duo etc being released, AMD (apart maybe from price in certain ranges) isn't as big a threat as it was. Maybe prior knowledge has shown Dell something interesting.
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