What is Digg?159 Comments
- valkraider, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Man, Digg needs threaded comments.
1. If you are old enough to be killed in the military, you are old enough to drink alcohol.
2. As a parent, I advocate removing all drinking age requirements. Teenagers who want to drink will do so. Drinking age laws prohibit me from helping my teenagers from being responsible while they do so. I would rather my kids and their friends get drunk and pass out on my couch, than somewhere else. But if I do so I can be punished, jailed, and sued. How does forcing our teens to party in abandon warehouses and cornfields make them safer?
3. People forget that this story took place at a COLLEGE. It was not a daycare. College students drink, and College students are free to make as many bad decisions as 40 year olds.
4. Age of consent is not as clear cut. But in general what is more important than the actual age is maturity and proximity. For example, I believe that two 16 year olds can consent. But I do not believe that a 16 year old and a 40 year old can consent - as the 40 year old would have undue influence on the decision of the 16 year old. This type of thing is trickier to legislate.
Sorry if I offended any 40 year olds. - Craig1394, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Serves the cops right for nosing around where they don't belong. I hope many more pranks follow.
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"The law isn't arbitrary; you just feel that is it."
No, the age of 21 being the legal age to consume alcohol is arbitrary. It's even illogical in the face of the age of consent (in most places) being 18. - valkraider, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Oakes: "And rightfully so. The answer is not to let your kids get drunk _period_. If you don't have control over them, perhaps you should consider another line of work other than parenting."
You are part right, and part missing the point.
Absolutely, the first 10 years are all about building the strong foundations that allow kids to make good solid decisions later in life. And about building a trust relationship, and responsibility, and all of that jazz.
Around 11 or so, kids start to become small grown up people. If they are constrained too much, they will rebel - often to the far extremes. If they are kept too loose they will never learn anything about consequences or right and wrong.
There is no right answer or solution that works universally. Which is why a federal law that says 21 is a safe age to drink is silly.
But even if you keep an iron fist type control on your teens, and you think you have them locked down - you will be sorely surprised. They will find ways to do things. Whether you like it or not. The only real safety is to have such a good relationship with your kids that they include you in all aspects of their life.
Teenagers become young adults. Young adults become parents and the cycle starts again. So it is crucial that kids and teenagers are given the skills they need - or they will make mistakes with their familes.
If a kid wants to get drunk bad enough, they will. There is nothing any parent in the world can do about it. Period.
Why not treat it like other things? You teach them to ride their bikes on the sidewalk in front of the house under close supervision. With practice and guidance, eventually they will be riding their bikes all over town by themselves. Drinking is no different. They need to learn how to do it responsibly - and best taught by parents than other teenagers. Best done under supervision rather than alone in a vacant lot. Better to not have to drive home, and to have someone responsible watching out for problems.... - fratandtonic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2As a GW student, and someone who works on behalf of students before the Student Judicial Services the reason this is funny and indeed a good gotcha is because of a number of things. First and foremost the party was discovered using facebook.com, yet in the Crime Report the police try to hide it by saying they received a "noise" complaint. I'd say the bigger issue here is general dishonesty, if you're going to use facebook to find the possibility of a party taking place at least have the balls to admit to it.
Further, in regard to the drinking age, it was 18 for a long time, indeed North Dakota was the last one to change. The reason for the change wasn't based on science, research, or anything. It was based on lobbying by MADD to Congress. So a law was passed saying that a state may set the drinking age to wahtever it wants, however, if it chooses to set that age below 21 then the Secretary of Transportation is required by law to withold substantial sums of federal highway monies crucial for states to upkeep the interstates that need to be maintained according to federal standards. - sovereign3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/education/edlife/facebooks.html?oref=login
Bugmenot:
UserID: kissit
Pass: baby6 - dmron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3LOL that's awesome :D Friggin cops with nothing better to do than bust underage drinking means we are putting too much money towards hiring cops. Happened 5 billion times a night in Corvallis OR
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"And um, rdnm...why is it "inherently unjust"? Because YOU say so? Or because "on a college campus" the belief is that? You know what? In a house full of murderers, the general consensus is that murdering is OK. I guess that makes it OK."
The drinking age is inherently unjust because it, as I said, is arbitrary. - absurdist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Oakes:
The age of consent in most of Europe is 14 or lower. Compare their teen pregnancy rate to that of the US sometime.
Whether it's rinking, drugs, sex, whatever... make it forbidden and you merely add to its allure. After all, if mom and dad say it's OK, where's the thrill? - Jay2005, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sorry oakes, I gotta chime in here. As for you're suicide comment - "That is an incredibly defeatist attitude." Its true though. If i (a healthy teenager living at home) felt so inclined, I could end it immediately. Ive had a great upbringing, and I am completely open with my incredibly cool, loving parents, But if i get a wild hair to slit my wrists, how are they going to stop me? especially considering They all go to sleep hours before me, nobody would find me before morning. Its not a defeatist attitude, Its being realistic.
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"cookies and coke >>> beer, they taste better anyway IMO."
You! Off the planet! Now.
"why is it a bad thing to bust underage drinkers? just curious. so what you're saying is that they are wasting time enforcing the law?"
It's an arbitary law (which is inherently unjust), and on a college campus the general belief is that adults should be free to make their own decisions about what they want to put into their bodies. Campus police busting kids for imbibing alcohol is silly and a waste of resources. - Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Honestly, the people who actually do plan crazy parties and put them up on a public forum (facebook), are so stupid that they should be arrested. Like I said about a previous story about people "spying" on your facebook profiles, announcing parties like that is like handing a written statement to the police station saying:
"we will be having a party with underage drinking and drug use at this address and at this time, please arrest us at your convinence"
Here's the thing, as of right now, anything you post on the internet can and will be used against you without your consent or knowledge. If you put pictures of your S&M party up on your public Livejournal, don't be surprised if you don't get hired for that job at the nursery. Likewise, if you're stupid enough not to be careful and stealthy about illegal activities, you deserve to be caught
Still, the story is a funny reminder that authorities will abuse their power at any chance possible, but sometimes you can work against them - enforcerpsu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I applaud this effort. Its about time someone fought back against over zealous campus police.
Nice job guys! - matts0344, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1cookies and coke >>> beer, they taste better anyway IMO.
- hotwaterham, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"The police...using social networking to get the upper hand on binge drinking...
This is ***** entrapment."
That's not entrapment... - Darkmoth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I try to teach my daughters 2 things:
1) Don't do stupid. This would include getting mindlessly drunk at a FRAT party (god), "trying" a hit of some drug, lawbreaking in general, etc.
2) If you ABSOLUTELY MUST do stupid, plan it like a war. Don't get caught, hurt, or busted, because that proves you coudn't handle the consequences of stupid, and being adult is about handling consequences.
So, while I have to give a big props to the students who pulled this off, I have to say "WTF?" to the ones who started posting about underage parties on Facebook. Those are some serious Darwin award candidates. I say bust 'em more to delay their breeding cycle.
I'm trying to remember how we used to get people to show at our parties...oh yeah, we told them we were having a freaking party. - bluedepth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11700.jpg, that cop has a wonderfully entertaining look on it. Nothing like standing there, hearing the knock you know is coming, opening the door and watching the police as their thoughts go from busting students to observing the mass consumption of cake.
What are they doing? Vodka? Tequila?
No... Betty Crocker.
MUAHAHAHAHAH! - joshwehatetech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wonder how many cop cars drive by to visit their Frat now after this stunt. It might of been funny, but I am sure they will be getting a bit more "attention" because of this stunt.
pOZ: I'm an old fart, and I know how "law enforcement employees" are. Most are drunkards, drug addicts, and closet pedophiles.
I don't even have anyone in law enforcement and I take personal offense to that. I am sure there are a "small few" but that also applies to anyone in any kind of public employment. Then again you are probably just trolling for responses.
--Josh - Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Sentencing someone for 25 years might be considered "arbitrary," too. Why not 24, or 26? An age has to be picked. Unless you want to end jailtime altogether on grounds that it is "arbitrary," I suggest you check your premises."
Straw man. Sentencing isn't a law. It's a punishment for breaking a law.
"No, it isn't rndm...Statistics show that kids who drink are more likely to have serious accidents, etc. under the influence. Basically, you are saying it is arbitrary because YOU are too ignormnace of the FACTS to know the truth."
Stastics say that more people who put shotguns in their mouths end up commiting suicide.
More 40 year olds that drink get into car accidents under the influence, than 40 year olds that do not drink. That does not mean the drinking age should be 41. - fitzy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"There were no violations of policy, but an inordinate amount of what appeared to be cake was served, according to a student close to the event."
Wow, I can't believe they put that into the police report... - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Most cops are scamming overtime, details, and disability. They steal FAR more than any robber or burglar ever could.
- dimatt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1lol, funny
- noksagt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1When I was in college, we threw a rootbeer kegger. Cops put some folks in the paddywagon before they figured it out.
- breakfree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1they should have gotten pictures of the cops faces....
- absurdist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hay Freaking Soos...
OK, apparently most of the people here have missed the point completely, AGAIN...
If the cops have so little to do that they're hanging out monitoring student blogs in the hope of trying to find something illegal going on, we have a definite surplus of cops. - AlmostEvil, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's dead Jim, i'll digg it if I can read it.
- VingTsunTX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I didn't know we had more than one NAMBLA folk here."
"Thank you, I wanted to reply to that but I was too incensed. Cop-hating is getting extremely old, especially on the very liberal digg.com."
"But I am incredibly offended by the mindset of one poster in this thread: "Whether it's rinking, drugs, sex, whatever... make it forbidden and you merely add to its allure."" - offended at human nature, huh?
Oakes your posts really do show you to be rather fascist-thinking - you seek to degrade others through manipulative argument and, as a result, make yourself look like you're correct. Like a child who makes fun of others to feel better. Why would be so needy? You've posted some seriously low-blows on here man. Be my guest and get sued for libel or slander at some point. Actually, go pick on NAMBLA rather than wasting your time and ours on here. Especially if you think digg is so "liberal". Know when "liberal" and "conservative" don't matter anymore, and the conflict between the two just seems petty? When you see the nature of yin and yang, and those glued to being one way or the other seem like crudely-constructed machines. Keep thinking so screwed up, no matter how much education, and you'll ruin your own life and won't know it. - ifonly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1BB linking to new york times. lame.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/education/edlife/facebooks.html - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Man that's a room temp IQ there. He would be flummuxed by a 6 piece jigsaw puzzle.
- someone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Let them eat cake.
LOL - Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Rndm, again, I didn't come here to debate with pedophilia advocates. You may continue trying to dichotomize pedophilia from sexual abuse if you wish. Not interested."
I'm not 'dichotomizing'. One is a condition, the other is a criming. Saying you should punish someone for having a unrealized sexual attraction to children is a little fascist for my tastes. - jgotangco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Awesome....you inspire me more!
- Jack9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I disagree - a child cannot consent to taking a substance that impairs their judgement, be it alcohol or pot."
Too bad the definition of child as it pertains to various laws, is different from state to state and that all humans are unique. Setting absolute limits is rather ridiculous, when it's arbitrary and demonstrably unreasonable. Might as well set the minimum drinking age to 30. - mynameisnick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Cake" and "inordinate" in the same sentence. That's way too funny!
- jhboxer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's great!
I actually know this guy, and it doesn't surprise me one bit what he did! - rmc2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As we saw a kid get charged by a DA for inciting students to refresh his school's web page, I bet some prosecutor will find a way to charge the minds behind this party with obstruction of justice or something along the lines of a prank 911 call. More than likely these kids managed to piss a lot of bitter pathetic people off and as such probably have a hard time coming. I'm sure this could easily be considered a prank that pulled officers away from where they were needed most just as if I called 911, but the main difference here is the way in which this "call for help" occurred. While the students never asked for official intervention, by advertising it, one could argue there was an implication that officers would be required at this event.
I agree with those who feel this was a waste of effort and we have much greater problems to deal with where law enforcement should focus efforts. Educating those not of age to drink on how to properly drink is what will prevent accidents, not having a bunch of "old people" speak to them at school when many kids view this as an attempt to stifle experimentation and personal freedom. I personally don't drink save for a half of beer now and again, but that is just me. If people want to have a party let them. Enough with holding students back. Protect them from those who prey on campus by harming others, not by surfing facebook. - valkraider, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oakes: "The answer in not to legalize everything and hope that the freedom will decrease their desire for it."
Probably not. But the answer is also not to make everything that could possibly do you harm illegal.
There is no one answer.
In the end, I believe that the money and effort would be much better spent in education and support - rather than legislation and enforcement.
I think we have sidetracked the comments though. I do think that it was quite funny, and I remember our campus police. They were losers with power trips.
(Dry campuses in college is another one of those oxymorinic things. Colleges do it so parents will feel better about sending their kids there, and all it does really is make kids have to buy more alcohol. One bottle for themselves, and one to bribe the Resident Assistant. (smile) ) - joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Can we toss in a discussion of Hitler and Abortion while we're at it?
- Perfection, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1First off...underage college drinking is rediculous. If you can go to war, you should be able to have a drink.
Props to these guys. I hope the cops are doing this at my university (although they would've busted the huge new year's party I went to if they were).
That does piss me off though, that they would do something like that...although I guess if it's public information then what can you do. Damn cops and stupid for-profit laws like "underage" drinking. Drinking doesn't seem to be a problem in Europle ==> less hardcore drug users too.
Digg++ for funny. - Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My mistake.
- jblithe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://digg.com/security/Facebook_s_CIA_ties
nothing to worry about. no connection. nothing to see here, folks. the gov't is looking out for your best interest. move along. nothing to see here. - valkraider, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oakes:"This is fine to a certain extent, but the government has an obligation to prevent gross violations of children's rights, such as beatings, sexual abuse, and, yes, intoxicating your child. You can't seriously expect the law to allow you to do whatever you want to your kid."
Yes it does. But forcefeeding a child alcohol should be considered "Child Abuse". Throwing an after prom party at your house so the kids can drink and have fun in a controlled environment should be considered "Responsible Parenting".
The minimum drinking age is not addressing Child Abuse. It would be illegal for me to force a 22 year old to drink alcohol to drunkenness, even though it is legal for a 22 year old to have alcohol.
It is illegal to force a person to have sex with you, even though the person is old enough to consent.
Drinking age laws do nothing to protect children. My argument is that they do the opposite, in fact put children at greater risk. - Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm getting my information from abnormal psychology.
A Pedophile has commited no crime. A Pederast has. - lava, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1man, I've been at GW for two summers. The cops there are real bastards. They totally deserved it. About two years ago they busted about 70 students in one night.
- DisposableRob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The essence of your argument, if I understand it, is that the age of 21 is arbitrarily chosen."
21 is an arbitrary number picked by politicians who suck up for a vote because they don't want "the children" to drink (though "the children" are old enough to die for oil in Iraq). Countries with lower or no drinking ages have less drinking problems than the US. This comes down to our Puritanical values actually encouraging the sins they try to prevent. - absurdist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Rndm_Tngnt:
digg.
There are far too many who can't distinguish between the two. Much like the Andrea Dworkin feminists who scream "All sex is rape." - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I applaud the students for being so creative in fighting for their rights. Not too long ago the drinking age was 18 DC. I remember it well as I survived the Grandfather Clause.
No law is ever going to stop college students from consuming alcohol, ever.
If you are old enough to get your head blown off in Iraq thanks to a lying government, by all means, break the law & have a beer on me. - panique, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Cool. A honeypot for cops. These guys kick ass.
What is required now is a sustained effort to have so many "beer" parties that there is enough noise to cover up the real parties.
http://www.kylestoneman.com/out/cake/IMG_1700.jpg - Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Then it isn't confusion, you're just wrong
- navster15, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1maybe im being too cynical, but if the drinking age was removed, would it make any difference? how many people here actually did not consume any alcohol until the age of 21? law or no law, it is far too easy for a minor to obtain alcohol.
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