What is Digg?199 Comments
- Saintlink, on 10/12/2007, -8/+49Who needs Congress or the Judicial branch any longer? That's so pre-9/11?
I'm not against wiretapping per se, but only with strong oversight.
Why is it that every time this administration has sought more power they have to do it outside of traditional means? - BloodJunkie, on 10/12/2007, -11/+45Because they can, Saintlink. They've brought America to the point where torturing prisoners and wire-tapping their own citizens is something that can be put up for public debate. 30 years ago there wouldn't be public debate. They would have been impeached faster than you could say "mission accomplished".
- Aeiri, on 10/12/2007, -3/+30"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."
- Adolf Hitler - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28"Why is it that every time this administration has sought more power they have to do it outside of traditional means?"
Because alot of what they've done is illegal. - p9s50W5k4GUD2c6, on 10/12/2007, -7/+26@nuclearpenguins: "Freedoms only aid the terrorists."
Since when did freedom become a liability to American citizens? Gee - and all this time I was thinking that freedom was the crown jewel of America.
It ~may~ aid the terrorists. It damn sure has helped us. Sorry - I refuse to trade my freedom in for a false sense of protection.
Those 'we must erode your freedoms to protect you' lies are nothing but *****. - 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22@ pabster -> Abraham Lincoln SUSPENDED THE ***** CONSTITUTION. Roosevelt interned thousands of Japanese citizens during a war.
No, Lincoln did not suspend the Constitution, he suspended habeaus corpus so he could arrest war protesters without cause. I might also point out that the manner in which this was carried out was ruled illegal by the Supreme Court after the war had ended. ILLEGAL. - 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20@ Geterix -> And no they are not wire-tapping their own citizens. As far as the people asquaking this out the most, they have yet to bring ONE example forward....I would love to see one.
You clearly don't understand what has been happening over the last four years. How would one even acquire this information? Everything is "secret" in the interest of "national security". The sad truth is, you wouldn't know if you were a target, and it would be damn near impossible to find out. Much of this is nothing but a pantload, brought on by men who like power, but without the integrity or wisdom to use it wisely (or legally, for that matter). - imjustabill, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21p9s50W5k4GUD2c6: i think he was being sarcastic
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21"Those poor terrorist. Wont someone think of the terrorist!
"
but lets us forget people like Khaled el-Masri who was tortured by mistake and for an appology we let him go in a foreign country with no money on top of a mountain. - XxUNDEROATHxX, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22..he also shot somone in the face.
- macewan, on 10/12/2007, -12/+28but he is just as much a dick
- triplehelix, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19Who really supports the troops? Politicians who put them in harms way for hidden agenda's or people who demand they be returned home to their families?
i support our troops. i do not support the war. i love my country. i do not blindly choke down everything a crooked politician says.
the definition of a patriot isn't blind faith in our president. it is "One who loves, supports, and defends one's country." sometimes a country needs defending from the people that are running it. - stonebear, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15The judiciary branch is set up to be less prone to corruption, in order to check the abuses of the executive and the legislative branches, which are historically prone to corruption, through oversight. In the real America, judges are supposed to monitor things like wiretapping and how prisoners are treated.
The nicer man is supposed to watch the other two mean ones, but yes, they are all ultimately “the man.” - leszek, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17"Those poor terrorist. Wont someone think of the terrorist!"
all humans have rights.
what is even more disturbing are when they are torturing innocent people for no reason at all
look here : http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/arar/arar_statement.html - p9s50W5k4GUD2c6, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17"p9s50W5k4GUD2c6: i think he was being sarcastic"
He might be. Unfortunately, he isn't the only one using that line of thought. - ViRaZ, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Reporter: Excuse me Mr. Vice President?
VP: Yes, go ahead.
Reporter: With this new bill, you can tapp any phone anywhere in the U.S.?
VP: Yes that is correct.
Reporter: Can we start with yours?
VP: This meeting is adjourned. - fearlessfrog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Hey, Chief Justice Slugo - when you opening your court? We're all ready to be scanned to see if we fit within your definition of good or bad guys? Got nothing to hide? Why did you mention child porn, that looks a bit suspicious to me - mind if I scan your hardisk - you are innocent, right?
Invasion of basic human rights to privacy to 'protect the population of the U.S.A' is more or less the most unamerican thing I can think of. - Everglow, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15@ Pimptastic: There is a huge difference between being liberal and being concerned for our rights, and the rights of our kids.
- p9s50W5k4GUD2c6, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20"You guys are undermining the troops in a post 9-11 world"
Out politicians are undermining American citizens in a post 9-11 world.
And I am ALL FOR OUR TROOPS. So don't give me that hackneyed pre-canned conservative ***** rhetoric.
No offense intended. - dkarlson, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20You know, everyone always talks about how this sort of thing would be okay as long as their was oversight. Well, who's overseeing? If The Man is watching what The Man does, then who's to say that what he's doing is wrong?
Don't forget -- once you give up a liberty, you never get it back. Ever. The US will NEVER return to the pre 9/11 days. We will never again be able to talk about the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, except in past tense. - 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14> Geterix wrote: "NY Times? They ae barely above the Daily Show in BS Reporting."
You know that the Daily Show isn't really a news program, don't you? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15not being allowed to discuss it intelligently is the worst idea there ever was.
and plenty of people have ideasss that this admin refuses to listen to
people who were right about the medicare costs
people that were right about the war costs
people that were right about how many troops we needed
we should probably start listening to the people that were right rather than these people that seems to be so wrong. - Misos, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19Ok, so, because some other national governments have extremely little respect for freedom it's ok for the government of the United States of America to hold the privacy of its citizen in near total disregard? Come on, if one's only defense is "well, we're not near as bad as China or Iran!" something is definitely wrong.
Let me give everyone a brief timeline of the phone-tapping:
Media finds out NSA is monitoring foreign calls, Bush defends it by saying he isn't spying on Americans, only foreigners in Middle-Eastern countries.
Media finds out NSA is monitoring foreign domestic calls, Bush defends it by saying it's only on foreign domestic, not just domestic.
Now, it turns out the NSA is monitoring domestic domestic, Bush still defends it, contradicting earlier statements.
For this alone I totally understand the desire to impeach Bush from office, but that's presents a problem. It'd be a much more dangerous and malicious Dick that replaces him. - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16@geterex/pimptastic
Disagreeing with Bush/Cheney/Rove != Leftist Agenda
I know uncle Billy tells you that every night on Fox, but it's just not true.
Be thankful that some people are concerned with our (yours and mine) consitutional rights being eroded even if you are not. - quasipalm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11"Abraham Lincoln SUSPENDED THE ***** CONSTITUTION."
Let's not forget that the US was splitting apart and the southern and norther states had declared war on each other. Sorry, but 9/11 looks pretty insignificant in comparison to civil war. - SmeRndmGy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Although it is a HUGE problem that they are ignoring the constitution and violating our rights, the real problem is much worse. The real problem is that most Americans are either too stupid to even know this is happening, they just don't care, or they actually approve of these illegal actions. Stop using fear as an excuse to hand over your freedoms. This is America! This government's agenda is to make you afraid and then use that fear to control you. Terrorist plots, bird flu, anthrax.... Sure these things really exist, but not anywhere near as much as you would think if you watch the evening news. What you see on the news is there for one of 3 reasons. A story about something terrible happening which implies that it could happen to you, so you should be afraid, A story about something funny or ridiculous happening to keep you watching and boost their ratings, like fox news' classic live coverage of such events as "TRUCK ON FIRE!!!!", or a story showing off the newest products so you'll think "I should rush out and buy that". It is rare to see actual news reporting on an actual event. No terrorist attacks are occurring, so they just bring in "experts" to list off various potential terrorist attacks that COULD happen. Poison in the water, planes crashing into power plants, exploding footware. The overall message is "you could die at any minute, but give us all your freedoms and we'll say all the right things to make you feel safe." You can still get blown up if you live in a soviet police state. Sure they say the government is just protecting you from terrorism, but who will protect you from this government?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15it is amazing how a concervative got elected when so many people are to the left huh?
the media
hollywood
scienctists
the gao
the aba
activist judges
the un
atheist
when everyone disagrees with your view maybe you have the wrong view.
I have voted republicain most of my life and i dont reconise these people as republicain.
ANd i dont believe in a liberal conspiracy in all facets of our lives. - beejay, on 10/12/2007, -9/+19So Bush may not be 'the decider' after all...
- fearlessfrog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11JK1150 - Yeah, nice plan. All you gotta do is keep killing and the problem will sort itself out. Sounds like you got a nice 'Final Solution' going on up there in ya wee brain. Let's hope they don't let you out of your Mom's basement to mix it with the rest of humanity, after all 'Terror is Everywhere, you just need to look hard enough'...
- stonebear, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Aeiri wrote:
“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.”
- Adolf Hitler
Here’s another good one:
“Of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”
- Hermann Goering - fearlessfrog, on 10/12/2007, -11/+20
'Reality has a proven liberal bias...'
Other favorite quote this week:
'Dick Cheney shoots someone in the face and gets away with it.
Clinton did it, and they impeached him...'
:-) - imjustabill, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Just because its not in violation of the FISA act doesn't mean its not in violation of Amendment number 4. - TekJansen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Soon the Government will know who the terrorists are before the "terrorists" realize they are terrorists.
- sapo916, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10getrix, now youre just being stupid
- eddyc, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Stop participating in it
- Niffer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Right to privacy?
- TheQT, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12@JK1150
I think I can speak for everyone when I say shut the ***** up. - SmeRndmGy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9 The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
- Aeiri, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"So the lack of proof proves that its true?"
The lack of proof proves that we need an open government system, so that in case they ARE corrupt, we will know.
"I have no proof that I have an alien in my attic, so theirfore there has to be one there because there is no way to know for sure."
When you start hearing weird voices from above, you might want to go check. But if the attic is locked, there is no way of knowing what kind of roller disco is going on. - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12@geterex
Yeah, if you study the history of the U.S., pretty much all the strife in the world has roots in U.S. international policy over the last 60 years.
It's good to see you're being honest with yourself now. - Misos, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13"Funny, because only 30% of them approve of him right now."
That's one of the major problems of democracy, people's opinions are so fickle. Opinions are not static, they are dynamic. The person who is elected president is not necessarily elected because they the best candidate, they are simply the candidate the public dislikes less at that brief period in time.
I am not a Democrat, and I think John Kerry is a total douche bag, but if the US Presidential election was held this year instead of 2004 I honestly believe that he'd win (not that I think he sould, I'm a libertarian).
Our system needs a major overhaul. Politicians and government's power need to drastically be reduced in scope. Our nation should be more reliant on charity groups and civillian action than government. - dyrmsz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10snapshot of modern political discussion
liberal: discussion
neo-con: accuses liberal of being left
liberal: more discussion
neo-con: patriotic statement
liberal: jumps off a bridge
neo-con: eats a cheeseburger while driving his H2 to Wal-Mart - mikal, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11 "I'll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here. 'I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.' 'I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking.' 'Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding out both puppets!'" - Bill Hicks
- fearlessfrog, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13
Um, how about not creating a whole new generation of terrorists that are growing up to hate America as they watch their fathers and older brothers throw stones at US tanks on rubble-strewn streets?
It's really not that complicated, is it?... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7shouldnt they be in your front yard because there arent cameras there? Must be some stupid crack dealers, you've got there.
No I am not saying your cameras are a bad thing, we have them here too in public places, i am laughing at your excuse, as if that camera wasnt there you would be neck deep in crack dealers.
Fear is such an easy manipulator.
I bet you would love living in a prison colony where everyone is checked at the door.. so safe. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8for all the people that un questionably support this i have a few questions to find out how far you will go
first a pedephile was busted at an uper level position at the NSA, would you spport allowing a pedephile to montitor your daughters calls to make us safer?
would you support a government agent in all of homes to make sure we are not being subversive?
how about just cameras on every street that can see every door?
Or how about just an monitoring anclet on all arabian people and or musliims? after all you arent neither and have nothing to worry about? ANd the muslims shouldnt mind unless they are evil no? why not monitoring chips in us all?
I am not trying to belittle your view i just want to know what you wouldnt accept in the purcuit of this evil called terrorism that really doesnt kill as many people on adverage as many many things in our lives. - sh0k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Disclaimer: I voted for Bush. Up until last December, I was a hardline republican.
Now, i am outraged at what is happening to our country. Whatever happened to small centralized government? Whatever happened to letting the citizens run most of the country? Where did my privacy go? Where did YOUR privacy go?
In the circles that i run in, and even my own household, I have been deemed a "liberal" for my stance against Bush and the NSA's wiretapping program. It is that kind of hardline, brainwashed party ideology (on BOTH sides) that is ruining us. People, stop putting your minds into a box and think for yourselves! When an executive puts himself above our laws, HE is the threat to freedom, moreso than any kid in Iraq is. And when you start to think like that, when you step back and realize, "hey, things are changing waay too much", then you allow yourself to break free of your party line and think clearly. From these wiretaps to Iraq to the torture of captured enemies....there's no denying it. We are heading in the wrong direction as a country.
So what can we do? What CAN you do, when the President declares that he is the "decider", and the Judicial branch is UNABLE to stop what is going on? What do you do, when the government shuts down the EFF lawsuit, and tells congress to keep its mouth shut? What do you do, when the government you trusted has completely and utterly failed to protect you...from itself?
You pick up a sign, and you ***** march. You make flyers. You educate people who don't understand. You organize in the streets, and DEMAND that this government check itself, lest we, the people, perform our own series of checks and balances. You fight it in the only way you can, as a citizen: through disobedience. You start your own campaign for privacy...and you do it with the resolve that you are backed by the Constitution and the voices of millions of angry citizens.
If you are going to start...now would be the time. - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10@JFK1150
Your logic escapes me, but I've come to realize that I'm debating real history with uninformed dweebs who think that a scorched earth policy is the solution to all problems.
*sigh*
The difference between my 'leftist' side and yours, JFK, is that I actually know about the real, measurable history of the United States. It would seem most of the red team here on Digg are young, well intentioned neo-cons, but they are badly misinformed and think that they can base an entire debate on name-calling and Fox News talking points. - Pimptastic, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11I just think there are a lot of loud angry people still left over from the Gore/Bush election. and the Internet being pretty much an anonymous forum for discussion has lead to extremist views that really don't accomplish anything but divide people who basically want the same things but have different ideas to get there.
its almost impossible to bring any fact from either side onto the Internet without someone screaming that your wrong and stupid. - blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9A terrorist is a guy who vaguely looks like an arab, of the non-christian kind. That's what the NSA calls 'a pattern' to make it look right.
Then you kidnap the guy, bring him to some remote island and you torture him. If after he dies he hasn't admitted to being a terrorist then he is both a terrorist and a liar. -
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