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293 Comments
- tavallai, on 01/03/2009, -5/+89"The industry opposes the new rules and warns of higher prices."
Color me shocked... - joe8pack, on 01/03/2009, -8/+86Amazing that they can write an entire article and never state the obvious. Why do LCD TV's use 43 percent more power than CRT tv's? The backlight! The single biggest power drain is the backlight, which are currently florescent tube based. Switch the backlights to LED lighting and this should drop the power use. This problem is solvable by technology. When OLED replaces LCD the savings could be potentionally more dramatic.
LCD tv's are the cassette/8track of the visual world - made to be obsolete in a matter of years. I should think that there will be a huge business in replacing backlights on these things in about 3-6 years. - retral, on 01/04/2009, -10/+80California: "If we don't like it... WE BAN IT!"
- rda1441, on 01/04/2009, -8/+66Maybe state regulators should be working to help make sure that their will be a state of California in 2011.
What a disaster zone. - Chahrlie5, on 01/04/2009, -9/+63California lol
- sonnybobiche, on 01/04/2009, -17/+67If you're so concerned about being green, just take it out on your citizens directly and force them to give you money for each joule of energy they use. That way you can take money from everybody, not just those folks that buy nice things. You did want the money, right?
California is insane and I would never, ever want to live there. - tonmil, on 01/03/2009, -31/+78Let me consume energy if I want.
- BradMajors, on 01/04/2009, -2/+47Another reason is that the LCD televisions people are buying have larger screens than their old tube TVs.
- CatsAreGods, on 01/05/2009, -3/+41So wait, my 37" LCD flatscreen that uses half the electricity of my old 27" CRT TV because it has a fluorescent backlight (you know, the technology that's considered "green" when it replaces incandescent light bulbs) is Bad For The Environment how?
- PopcornDave, on 01/05/2009, -2/+35Everything you have is bad and must be replaced because you're cheating the government out of sales taxes by not buying new things.
/s - quetzzz, on 01/04/2009, -1/+31Isn't this what Energy Star is supposed to encourage? Give the consumers knowledge about the energy consumption of their appliances so they can make economic decisions when making purchases?
- CatsAreGods, on 01/05/2009, -2/+31I'm not reading the article, I'm reading the power sticker on my TV sets, because I grew up with a mind and know how to use it.
My old JVC TV would dim the lights whenever you turned it on, too, due to the degausser. No such thing happens with an LCD TV. The combination of passive LCD technology and fluorescent lighting gives an efficiency unmatched by any other technology available when I got my TV last year. The idea that you must be forced to buy something more efficient as soon as it hits the market, no matter how expensive it is, is uinique to California thinking. - drig, on 01/04/2009, -10/+38A state should not be able to limit what I can and cannot buy, because of power issues. I pay the power bill! Let capitalism figure it out... as the cost of energy rises, people will be less likely to buy high-power TVs and will demand more energy efficient ones from the manufacturer. Problem solved. Why does the government waste their time on crap like this?
Oh, and "Every dollar spent on energy efficiency returns $2 in savings" is complete non-sense. - KCinQC, on 01/05/2009, -1/+28This article is misleading and/or blatantly incorrect.
LCD's of EQUAL SIZE use on average 43% LESS energy than CRT TV's, some as much as 70% LESS. That's with CFL backlights.
http://www.eu-energystar.org/en/en_023b.shtml
LED backlighted LCD's (and they are coming) will be far superior with better colour and contrast.
(Heck, when we replaced our 10 CRT monitors at work for larger LCD monitiors, we no longer had ot run the AC in the office. Don't believe me? Just find and old 20" CRT TV, turn it on for 15 minutes then place your hand over the vents on the back. Do the same on a 20"LCD and tell me which gets hotter. More heat, more energy consumption.)
Most LCD's are also more efficient than Plasma's of equal size.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6475_7-6400401-3.html
There is a very real problem with energy consumption though; that's because nobody buys 27-37" flatscreen TV's today. Everyone is buying 47-60" behemoths. I guarantee that if CRT's were even available at that size they would have the energy needs of a couple of refrigerators.
The problem isn't with the technology. Once again it's with our own gluttony. - twiztidsinz, on 01/04/2009, -6/+31Rolling blackouts and brownouts have been around a lot longer than Flatscreen TVs so its rather hard to blame it on just that.
- apologeticus, on 01/05/2009, -4/+27you heard on it Digg first, folks - Californians created lettuce
- PopcornDave, on 01/05/2009, -3/+26But if they're stupid enough to do that, shouldn't they be able to part with their money in a way that they choose?
- ShingoEX, on 01/04/2009, -0/+22I think the auto industry is in more need of a efficiency "crack down" than the television industry
- xprojects, on 01/04/2009, -4/+23Isn't that what electricity companies already do or are you being sarcastic?
- xprojects, on 01/04/2009, -4/+22What does it matter when you can't get your roommates to turn off the TV before they leave the room?
- hyperspaztik, on 01/04/2009, -1/+19I wish they would have stated how much energy Plasma's use. It's a good idea, but Joe8pack has a point. If they start replacing those back lights with LED's, the energy saving and reliability would shoot up. I own a Plasma and I love it, but I barely use it 2 hours a day on a normal basis.
- ThePerkins, on 01/04/2009, -0/+18My flat screen is power-hungry. It now dominates my entire house.
- getoffmybridge, on 05/05/2009, -0/+18Samsung already makes some newer led backlit models.
- edyang, on 01/04/2009, -14/+31I think the system is fine as it is. If you use more power, you pay for it through higher monthly bills. What's wrong with that?
These damn Lib politicians are looking to legislate every nook and cranny of our lives. Light bulbs, bags, fast food, etc. - JHW539, on 01/05/2009, -3/+18They do happen to be the most efficient state in the nation (kWh per person, unit of GDP, etc) despite half living in the desert (cooling sucks down more power than heating typically), the birthplace of the computing revolution (aided by their unparalleled public university system), and a regulatory success story in cleaning up air pollution.
But yeah, tenth largest economy in the world and it also subsidizes the rest of the nation (in just 2003 it paid $50 billion more to the feds than it received) - what a disaster zone. - rebrad, on 01/04/2009, -9/+24Sucks to live in California.
- Mofo, on 01/05/2009, -4/+18Wait I've got it, why don't we charge for electricity so the more people use the more they pay and the more the power company makes. Oh wait... Why doesn't CA add a $10 "disposal fee" to every LCD purchased? Oh wait...
More taxes that will do nothing and keep the state bankrupt. CA has already taxed so much that Texas now has the most corporate headquarters per state, no longer CA due to the tax structure. - arigneysd, on 01/04/2009, -12/+25and we don't want you here..
- dsmx, on 01/05/2009, -0/+12In the UK the consumer does, most household appliances have an energy efficiency sticker on them so you can see how much energy they use. Perhaps a similar system in the US would be more beneficial than the system they're proposing in California?
- KHook321, on 01/05/2009, -1/+13Damn that Democratic governor! Oh wait.....
- edyang, on 01/04/2009, -4/+15What about also tackling the supply side then? How about we build more nuclear power plants like the French and Japanese do?
- randyest, on 01/05/2009, -1/+12It is nonsense to compare one size LCD to a different size CRT when comparing power consumption. And LCDs use less power:
http://www.eu-energystar.org/en/en_023b.shtml
or any of the dozens of results at:
http://www.google.com/search?q=crt+vs+lcd+power&am ...
How the hell did the CEC and the LA Times both get this wrong? - StuartGibson, on 06/14/2009, -2/+13California "created" lettuce?
In fact, according to this map, you did sod all in lettuce production: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/2005 ... - KelticKal, on 01/05/2009, -2/+13This article is guilty of apples and oranges comparisons. Screen size makes a big difference in the amount of power required so comparing CRTs to liquid crystal units is quite unfair given the small size of most CRT TVs. One has to wonder if this will prevent California residents from buying large sets or video projectors. Also, when considering the total power consumption in the state including industrial customers, this can't help very much.
- freefoodisgood, on 01/04/2009, -4/+15The problem is that California has power issues just about every summer when people crank up their A/C's. They want to better control blackouts that occur because of too much power consumption.
- tablatronix, on 01/05/2009, -2/+13Haha yeah that $40-$80 extra a year.
- twiztidsinz, on 01/05/2009, -2/+12except that with CFL's you get not only more efficiency but longer lifespan. All in all, I believe that Cost / Lifespan works out in the consumers favor for CFLs as opposed to regular bulbs.
- maloventevil, on 01/05/2009, -0/+10why wouldn't people just buy their lcd's and plasmas online / out of state? really this just hurts the in-state retailers.
- gaqua, on 01/04/2009, -10/+20Please don't come here anyway. Also, believe it or not - it's not just about pulling in money from the TV manufacturers - it's about forcing innovation. Driving the "free market" to innovate with more efficiency and quality rather than in the "cheaper cheaper cheaper" way they typically do right now.
It's worked before and it'll work again.
But if you'd rather have higher taxes on the populace.... - SIDSI, on 01/05/2009, -4/+14welcome to 1984
- BradMajors, on 01/04/2009, -0/+10It is amazing such a long article could be written without providing any information other than the starting date, about what the new California standards will be.
- azureskies88, on 01/05/2009, -2/+12God forbid we let consumers make decisions for themselves. Eventually, we will just be flat-out told what products to buy.
- CatsAreGods, on 01/05/2009, -3/+13Next up: new homes in California will not be able to use electricity from the power grid. Go solar or go back to Iowa!
Well, it's as logical as this TV nonsense. - Renton, on 01/05/2009, -1/+10I think he was talking about the earthquakes and wildfires.
- randyest, on 01/05/2009, -2/+11Except LCDs don't use more power, even including the backlight.
http://www.eu-energystar.org/en/en_023b.shtml
or any of the dozens of results at:
http://www.google.com/search?q=crt+vs+lcd+power&am ...
How the hell did the CEC and the LA Times both get this wrong? - gaqua, on 01/05/2009, -4/+13Yeah, blame California for years of inferior products, horrible management decisions, and decades worth of pensions for legacy employees. That's our bad.
- Brassbud, on 01/05/2009, -2/+11California: Legislating their way into bankruptcy and the Stone Age since 1850.
- tnoy, on 01/05/2009, -1/+10LCDs do not use 43 percent more power than a CRT. It is deceptive reporting on the part of the LA Times. They're saying that the average size LCD uses more power than the average size CRT, but don't mention that the average LCD is larger than the average CRT. The same document that they got these numbers from show PG&E's estimates of each technology being 0.23 w/sq in and 0.27 w/sq in for CRT and LCD, respectively. It also shows the W/sq in for DLP being 0.14W. The graph in the article shows DLP using over double the power of a CRT, but in reality for screens the same size it uses far less.
The PG&E numbers show a LCD using around 17% more than a CRT, not 43%, when sizes are equal.
I've seen studies shown that when comparing large CRTs to similar-sized LCDs (both in the 36-37" range) that the LCDs are using less power per square inch. This is nothing but fuzzy numbers and estimates without a solid source of numbers.
Link to actual source: http://www.energy.ca.gov/2008publications/CEC-400- ...
Link to other parts of the draft, http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/2008rulemaking ... - xero69, on 01/04/2009, -0/+9Spend a little more when you buy and save money on your electric bill the entire time you use the flat screen. I like the idea but this is not the proper way to get people to buy energy efficient devices. How about a discount or tax credit for certain models found to be energy efficient?
- Thud, on 01/05/2009, -0/+9Also, we can't not use double negatives.
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