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California Outlaws The Forced Subdermal RFID Tagging Of Humans
arstechnica.com — The California legislature has just made sure that employers cannot require their employees to have subcutaneous RFID implements (and you thought your workplace was strict). Supracutaneous RFID trackers, though, are still fair game.
curtissthompson- 838 diggs
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- weirdralph, on 10/10/2007, -24/+6Bit of a moot point, I'd say. We're all likely to be chipped within 10 years as the chips begin adding convenience to our lives (easier medical records, quick-pay at the checkout line, etc.). People will gladly give up their privacy for a little added convenience.
- therightside, on 10/10/2007, -7/+15Only Star Trek loving dorks like you think this is going to happen.
- RetroRufio, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13And just WHAT is wrong with loving Star Trek?!
- tombeek, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Awesome reply! I was starting to get annoyed by the name calling, and might have made an angry "goddamit be polite and don't call names" email, which would have been, a, not effective at all.
Humor is king. - FatherVic, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Nothing unless you are still dressing up and going to conventions. douche.
Trekkies are basement dwelling douchebags. aaAAAAAW-YYEEeeah
- tombeek, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Awesome reply! I was starting to get annoyed by the name calling, and might have made an angry "goddamit be polite and don't call names" email, which would have been, a, not effective at all.
- BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8LOL. "Scotty, lock on to my MasterCard keyfob and beam me out of here!"
- Otto, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2@therightside: No, because it's already happening. There are nightclubs in Florida (been to a few of them in Miami) and Barcelona that have RFID implant systems. You get a little chip in your hand and can buy drinks and get entry to clubs and all sorts of other things without having to carry cash or credit or anything.
http://www.verichipcorp.com/ makes the chips. The chips are even FDA approved.
This isn't sci-fi nonsense. It's been going on for the last 3-4 years, at least.
- RetroRufio, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13And just WHAT is wrong with loving Star Trek?!
- moskaudancer, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1If they become used purely for the sake of convenience, they won't need to have tracking transponders, just readable info like biometrics data, credit cards, etc.
- FLLawLibrarian, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I am all for convenience. Its the tracking part, I think we could do without!
- Otto, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2a) WTF is a "tracking transponder"?
b) Whatever it is, an RFID implant doesn't have it. It's a passive technology: No batteries. - SomaSynth, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0RFID tags don't have 'transponders'. About storing credit card numbers on it, as long as the monthly limit is listed to make it easier for me to pick out the good ones, I'm all for it.
- therightside, on 10/10/2007, -7/+15Only Star Trek loving dorks like you think this is going to happen.
- tonycjohn, on 10/10/2007, -2/+24I give credit to the CA law makers. I think this will start with pets and soon there will discussions on the benefit of using it on prisoners, etc.
- adgreene, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2You are exactly right.
- Vektuz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7We've already been using it on pets for a couple years actually - its not really new tech.
- cardyology, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Im getting my new doggy (super)chipped :D
- cardyology, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Im getting my new doggy (super)chipped :D
EDIT : *****, posted twice. - cardyology, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2Im getting my new doggy (super)chipped :D
EDIT: Sheeeet! Three times! Sorry!- Otto, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Three times, and it was a worthless comment to begin with. Way to go, Hamilton!
- cardyology, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1How'd you know my names Hamilton?
It wasnt worthless, I actually am getting my dog chipped next week. I was re-iterating the point made by the poster above.
- cardyology, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1How'd you know my names Hamilton?
- MindTrigger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1How the hell does one manage to do this? I've been posting here since Oct 2005, and I think I did a double post once.
- Otto, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Three times, and it was a worthless comment to begin with. Way to go, Hamilton!
- Error601, on 10/10/2007, -20/+4Glad the CA legislature is wasting tax money responding to Internet hype.
- r55741, on 10/10/2007, -2/+17"I tell them don't be RFID girliemen"
- swrostmore, on 10/10/2007, -0/+50The Governator knows that Skynet will be able to control humans through their RFID chips - he's just taking preventative measures
- tombeek, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"The Government made me do it!"
"It wasn't my chip!" - sjbdallas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3It's not a tuma! It's an RFID chip that erases my memories!
- tombeek, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"The Government made me do it!"
- theshizzler, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Where's the ban on mind-control helmets and Sentinels?
- Pureeviljester, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5supra means not in the skin?
someone explain those 2 words please.- bzooty, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1no
- solvent13, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Sub = below
Supra = over, on top of
Cutaneous = relating to the skin - SlowOnTheUptake, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3'Supra-' means above. So presumably, by 'supracutaneous', they mean on the surface of the skin.
- StoneLox, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2subcutaneous = under the skin
supracutaneous = above the skin - could be a bracelet - WarMace, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1..or a collar.
- Seidoger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3That is really scary (What they just outlawed).
- crazyben, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10In other news, California outlaws kitten murder, evil time travel, and necrophilia.
Great job!- moskaudancer, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Here's hoping necrophilia and animal abuse are already illegal.
- sjbdallas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Evil time travel? They should have outlawed all time travel just to play it safe. Along with teleportation, DNA recombination that results in alien-human hybrids, self-aware computers, gremlins, and any demonstrations of advanced technology where generic military generals are present and and supposedly safe from harm.
- cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2If they outlawed all those, they would have to stop making half of next summers blockbuster movies.
- JohnnyHotballs, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6this is a victory for good in the world...
- techfish, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1where is the wikipedia entry for Supracutaneous
- JohnnyHotballs, on 10/10/2007, -7/+7If you don't want to be tracked like a jew in world war 2, this concerns you.
- serpicolugnut, on 10/10/2007, -8/+7I'm glad to see that California is tackling the important issues first, and leaving the smaller, insignificant issues like illegal immigration for a later date. What leadership!
- madduck623, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Personally i think protecting my rights to not be tracked like cattle pretty important.
- fantasticFlan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4It is pretty ridiculous, but I won't be laughing if this becomes a messy issue in a few years and California's the only state to have it all worked out.
- Gavagai80, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3For all the supposed harm of illegal immigration, California has the most prosperous economy in the country and is a world economic leader. Obviously it isn't hurting much, so as a Californian it's quite low on the list of things I care about. RFID tags, on the other hand, could affect me. I'm glad lawmakers have their priorities straight for once.
- FLLawLibrarian, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2WTF? Why would any employer want to do this? To track you when you call out sick, when in fact you are fine.. or what?
- sjbdallas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1There is some company (i forget which one) that requires an RFID implant to enter a secure area. They probably want to nip that in the bud. Also, they may fear a day when the govt forces immigrants to be implanted.
- burnerjack, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Yeah, but only the ilegal ones ;-)
- jcounterman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Actually, they do this in some refineries, industrial sites, and other locations (badges, not under-the-skin models) as a way of knowing where people are when dangerous work is going on. Its a good check to see if the area is clear so that people don't get hurt. In the case of a disaster, its also good for locating individuals for easier rescue.
- Vektuz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4They can still use badges and tags and ties, and even bracelets, anklets, stuff you can't take off, and so on, for all places where they'd normally require subcutaneous injection.
- Otto, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2RFID chips can't magically track your location. You have to be within a couple inches to read the data on the things.
- sjbdallas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1There is some company (i forget which one) that requires an RFID implant to enter a secure area. They probably want to nip that in the bud. Also, they may fear a day when the govt forces immigrants to be implanted.
- Takalth, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0That covered the less important part. The more important one is that the government doesn't do this. Still a good thing, though.
- mourne, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1I don't think employers should be able to require something like this. Although, personally, I think the idea of never carrying a wallet around is nice.
This will never take off though fully though. The christian population would never do this, because they'd be scared ***** that they'd be taking the "the mark of the beast". Nothing like religion to slow down technological progress.- mourne, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Then again.. now that I think about the tracking implications, I don't think most people would want such a thing.
- tombeek, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Do you suppose some people will get them just for fun - so their friends can track them on the Internet, or something.
Weirder things have occurred.
- tombeek, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Do you suppose some people will get them just for fun - so their friends can track them on the Internet, or something.
- Otto, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2What tracking implications? You have to be within a couple inches to read the things.
RFID is a passive technology. No batteries. It cannot track your location.- Novagenesis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Shhh..you're ruining all the hysterics....
It can hold personal information that is otherwise unobtainable about you, but it's not a tracking threat.
- Novagenesis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Shhh..you're ruining all the hysterics....
- mourne, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Then again.. now that I think about the tracking implications, I don't think most people would want such a thing.
- ptheroux, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5The headline is wrong. The bill does not outlaw "forced" implantation. It outlaws implantation as a condition of having a particular job. "Forced" is when someone holds you down and implants it. If having the tag is a condition of a job, you are free to not take the job in the first place.
- madduck623, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3what if down the line every employer requires this tag? not so free to not take the job when you have bills to pay and mouths to feed then.
- ptheroux, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3What if every potential worker, as a condition of working at a particular job, required that their boss have an implanted RFID chip? Bosses would have no choice but to implant such a chip if they wanted to have any workers and make a living.
- Myonosken, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3No that's still classed as forced.
- ptheroux, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Employers can require require all kinds of unpleasant tasks and conditions for their workers. Most employers do not because they know that in order to get someone to do the job voluntarily, they have to make the conditions pleasant enough that people will do the work of their own free will. Workers are free to leave at any time. For example, my boss once threatened to install filters to prevent us workers from accessing websites like Digg at the office. Enough employees objected that the idea was dropped. Remember, employment is a two-way exchange. Workers want money and are willing to give up their time and labor. Employers want labor and are willing to pay for it. The transaction only takes place if the terms are agreeable to both parties. If required implantation of these tags is something that most workers don't want, they will not chose to take jobs that require it. Just like most people don't like cleaning toilets, so they don't take jobs that require that either.
- noctu, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2nice play on semantics. so if you were on my boat and we were 100 miles off shore in shark infested waters and I said let me implant you of get off my boat and swim this would not be forceing you? well then lets go for a ride sucker.
- 35263526, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Nice straw man there.
Definite death from shark frenzy isn't comparable to temporary financial hardship looking for a job, genius.
- 35263526, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Nice straw man there.
- madduck623, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3what if down the line every employer requires this tag? not so free to not take the job when you have bills to pay and mouths to feed then.
- Myonosken, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5But how will they know I'm an interstellar delivery boy?
- krugerlive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1although this is a repeat article, this one actually has a somewhat accurate title. Dugg!
- tombeek, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Ah the California legislature. Way ahead of the pack - except for those other two state legislatures that already saw the future and shuddered.
But it seems to me that there may be legitimate uses for these R(adio)F(requency)ID(entification) chips, like for the mentally ill. Psychopaths cannot feel or relate to rules or guilt, so there are no social barriers to their actions. Stick an RFID chip in them and everyone is safer. Seems less controversial than chemical (or real) castration (of sex offenders). An RFID chip would be a lot less punitive and psychologically cruel than these other measures, and would also be more effective, provided that the offender could not remove the chip him/herself.
The danger in this line of argument, some will say, is that once you allow this kind of use for the RFID chip, their use will spread and become more common. But, remember, it's not the voluntary insertions that will matter - as one digger pointed out already, this will happen simply for convenience sake, Star Trek reference not withstanding. V O L U N T A R Y. Obviously, this makes all the difference. The California law makers could just as well have passed a law prohibiting anyone from forcing ANYTHING INTO ANYONE. Wouldn't that pretty much cover RFIDs?- alimnemonic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1RFID is not a GPS. Unless you have a reader in your home, and scan everyone that comes in to detect sex offenders, it is of no use. Then again, you shouldn't invite sex offenders in the first place...
- nybble41, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1GPS receivers don't broadcast your position any more than RFID tags do. Unless coupled with a suitable transmission device (like a cell phone), GPS is a passive technology. (And if you're broadcasting a signal you can be trivially tracked without any help from real GPS equipment. Cell phone "GPS" is mostly just the towers keeping track amongst themselves of which one you're closest to so that they can hand off the call when you move out of range.)
- alimnemonic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1RFID is not a GPS. Unless you have a reader in your home, and scan everyone that comes in to detect sex offenders, it is of no use. Then again, you shouldn't invite sex offenders in the first place...
- TeamRocket, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3go California, its your birthday, go California, you can do it!
- Error601, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I think they should go back to more important things like banning bags.
- BradMW, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4This is the first thing California has EVER done that I respect.
- MindTrigger, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3You must be missing all of the advanced energy/resource conservation work California does. We are the most progressive state in the nation on many fronts.
- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yet you make it so difficult to recycle soda cans and bottles. In Michigan the kids and bums can get 10 cents and turn them in at any supermarket. Here in California I've never gotten my full 2.5 cents back that I put in for the CRV. California had to create a whole inefficient industry of middlemen taking their cut rather than doing it the obvious way. So guess what, I see empty bottles all over the streets here in California and then we pay city workers and prisoners to go pick them up.
It's what happens when you combine conservation with the politics of the "Progressives".
- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yet you make it so difficult to recycle soda cans and bottles. In Michigan the kids and bums can get 10 cents and turn them in at any supermarket. Here in California I've never gotten my full 2.5 cents back that I put in for the CRV. California had to create a whole inefficient industry of middlemen taking their cut rather than doing it the obvious way. So guess what, I see empty bottles all over the streets here in California and then we pay city workers and prisoners to go pick them up.
- MindTrigger, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3You must be missing all of the advanced energy/resource conservation work California does. We are the most progressive state in the nation on many fronts.
- Infowarmachine, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2well this gives me piece of mind, i think they should do it in the rest of the states
i heard wisconson and north dakota also made it illegal to force rfid chips - burnerjack, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1What always amazes me is if your government requires "this or that "it results in Fahrenheit 451 hysteria but if your employer demands it it results in " wow,huh?" and that's it. Commercial power has WAY more power to threaten our freedoms than governmental powers. That being said, you'll have to excuse me, I have a tin foil helmet to make...
- ptheroux, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2You have it absolutely backwards sir. Government is the only entity with the legal authority to use force. The government has the power at any time to pass a law requiring you to pay taxes, or give up your property, or implant these chips. An employer can only try to PERSUADE you by offering you money. If you don't like the offer, you don't have to take it.
- shig, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1"The government has the power at any time to pass a law requiring you to pay taxes, or give up your property, or implant these chips."
Congress shall make no law...arbitrary to the Constitution. It doesn't have the power to do any of those things. That does not mean it won't attempt to enforce such draconian laws, but they are violating the law by doing so.
"Government is the only entity with the legal authority to use force."
I also have the "power" to use force indefense of my life and property.
"If you don't like the offer, you don't have to take it."
Too bad I have to take it from my openly tyrannical government.
- shig, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1"The government has the power at any time to pass a law requiring you to pay taxes, or give up your property, or implant these chips."
- ptheroux, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2You have it absolutely backwards sir. Government is the only entity with the legal authority to use force. The government has the power at any time to pass a law requiring you to pay taxes, or give up your property, or implant these chips. An employer can only try to PERSUADE you by offering you money. If you don't like the offer, you don't have to take it.
- Kallius, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I can imagine plenty of governments of the world that will have *no* qualms about forcibly chipping their citizens, once the technology becomes widespread and extremely inexpensive.
- Ebacherville, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Here is the diffrence, if the feds insist you take a chip you will go to jail if you dont, if a company says you must take a chip you can walk away.. you dont HAVE to work there, its your choice and you wont be jailed for makingthat choice.. the feds say somthing and you dont do it and your locked up..
This is simple, a comapny can require chips or drug tests.. if they do they will loose good workers that wont put up with it and end up with lazy sheeple as workers.. As a company would you want inteligent driven principled people or sheeple pushovers that do exactly as said and nothing more.
Now if the feds start chipping people thats when hell needs to be raised because you can walk away from the feds like you can from a employer.- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Well you have to work there if you're on welfare because you aren't allowed to turn down jobs because you find them disagreeable with your personal ideology. Only if it's a religious conviction can you turn down a job. (like making you work on the Sabbath, or having you sell Alcohol). Although if you're a Catholic I don't think you can get a tattoo, and I think an RFID tag is the same as desecrating your body.
- nybble41, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1You can still turn down the job -- you just won't receive any welfare payments after that. It's still your choice. There's no more right to receive welfare handouts than there is a right to force someone to give you a job.
- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Well you have to work there if you're on welfare because you aren't allowed to turn down jobs because you find them disagreeable with your personal ideology. Only if it's a religious conviction can you turn down a job. (like making you work on the Sabbath, or having you sell Alcohol). Although if you're a Catholic I don't think you can get a tattoo, and I think an RFID tag is the same as desecrating your body.
- faskippy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0We are already in the age of being tracked. Delivery people for many companies, private and govt., have GPS trackers in their vehicles. This RFID ban they instituted does indeed read as though it would still be o.k. for them to use it as a condition of employment. What the hell good purpose could this serve. I guess I'm just short sighted. I can't think of one job that would require such a thing, being that most jobs where security is an issue already require you to wear a badge with a magnetic stripe on the back, containing all of your information already, including a picture on the front.
- freezeout, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Johnson, I can see on my computer that you're not in your cubicle, and just what were you doing in the bathroom for 14 minutes yesterday?!
- darkgrrrl, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2From the bill: “Require, coerce, or compel” includes physical violence, threat, intimidation, retaliation, the conditioning of any private or public benefit or care on consent to implantation, including employment, promotion, or other employment benefit, or by any means that causes a reasonable person of ordinary susceptibilities to acquiesce to implantation when he or she otherwise would not.
I think this law is absolutely the right thing to do. However, companies have already adopted GPS to track employees via phones/vehicles; they will find many ways to use RFID other than actually chipping us. - thecoolestguy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5The California State Senate is continueing the tradition of treating citizens like children who need to be protected from their own stupidity, by passing legislation barring employers from demanding employees be implanted with RFID tags as a condition for employment. Another political body that does not understand the concept of liberty and mutually consentual contract.
You may think that this is a move towards liberty, but whenever the government supposes to know what's best for people by limiting their freedom, it's actually a degradation of humanity and a move towards totalitarianism. Government has no right to tell anyone they can't enter a contract where being implanted with an RFID tag is a condition for employment, or, as another example, tell people that they can't can't provide a sexual service in exchange for money.
Just because we disagree with something doesn't mean we collectively have a right to force someone to not do it.- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The State is Father, the State is Mother.
- cdahlkvist, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1You're right to an extent however society has a responsibility to force people not to do some things that we disagree with. Murder? Rape? I think those are fine examples.
We also have a right to NOT be forced by others to do some things we may find wrong, morally or constitutionally. An employer has certain conditions they may require of you if you want to work for them. I do not believe implanting something in YOUR body should be their right. And while it seems on the surface that they should have the right to not employ you (a right California is seems to be taking away) the reality is that you can't "go home and remove this" at the end of the day meaning your employer would still have the means to keep tabs on you thus putting an end to your right to privacy.- thecoolestguy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Murder and rape are coercion and are not mutually consentual acts (since people who are raped or murdered don't consent to it happening by definition). Agreeing to have an RFID tag implanted in exchange for employment is consentual.
- cdahlkvist, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I'm glad that was all you took from my statement.
- thecoolestguy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Murder and rape are coercion and are not mutually consentual acts (since people who are raped or murdered don't consent to it happening by definition). Agreeing to have an RFID tag implanted in exchange for employment is consentual.
- jjmckay, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Thank you! Yes. A government prohibiting this is perhaps just as totalitarian is one that mandates it. Or rather, the means don't justify the ends.
- jeremycobert, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4a win for big brother and another loss of freedom. if some company requires you to get tagged you can always quit or not take the job. stop cheering for the government to take things away from you. you had a choice, now you don't.....
- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3HELP ME! I can't figure out things for myself. Please save me from big bad corporations. I need help from my mommy and daddy at the California legislature to protect me from those awful bad people.
(who can protect me from the state legislature?)
- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3HELP ME! I can't figure out things for myself. Please save me from big bad corporations. I need help from my mommy and daddy at the California legislature to protect me from those awful bad people.
- tybris, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Good news. We need more of that.
- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Proactive creation of new laws to protect people from a non-existent problem is never good news. You've been hoodwinked by representatives that can't even ship a state budget on time (or on budget, a huge part of it had to be vetoed!)
- mynameistim, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1the dudes who wrote those left behind books must be bummed or excited - the implantable "mark of the beast" without which one cannot work or trade, was a big part of the story.
and i suppose everyone who believes that the rapture is coming. - shinelikeitdoes, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1what the ***** kind of job could possibly justify a tracking implant. this is right up there with bar code tattoos.
nazis anyone?- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1How else will you ensure that Jewish bankers don't steal all your money?
- BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I wonder what the Japanese would do? I bet they would use implants to track employees, increase productivity and leave us in the dust, again.
- kwkspectre, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0A lot of us have supracutaneous RFID right now...it's called an access badge. RFID is not a sci-fi movie tracking bug (I'm looking at you Total Recall). It has to be read from a few feet at the most, but more likely inches. Hit it with enough gauss and it fries. That being said I would quit before having one implanted.
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