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152 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+56argh! i can't stand it when people use "then" for "than"....
- vbrtrmn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34I had the Honda Insight for 5 years .. then I accidently drove it into an SUV (August 2005). After 70,000 miles the entire battery system failed, if it happened to be over 80,000 miles the warranty would not have paid for it. The total cost of repair was $7,000, I would have had to scrap the car.
After the accident, which happened at under 10mph, the car was totalled, if I had been going faster, I would have been seriously injured. To replace it, I purchased a Diesel Mercedes, which have been known to last around 500,000 miles... paid $3000 for it. - Echidna, on 10/12/2007, -10/+40Just watch out for the smug. It's getting nastier every day... especially with tax credits and incentives like these.
Free (as in beer) Parking? Watch out. - Agent0100, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20Once and for all...
One uses than when comparing things. One thing is bigger THAN the other. One sentence is less grammatically correct THAN another.
Once you have mastered this, THEN start using the other word. - djork, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15People need to realize that you WILL NOT SAVE MONEY by spending more on a Hybrid car. You can only save money by buying the most all-around economical car you can find. For instance, you can spend $21000 on a Prius and save a few hundred bucks a year on gas, or you can spend $2000 on an old Civic and just maintain it well. You will get less favorable gas mileage, but you will still save thousands and thousands of dollars.
How the hell have we been fooled into thinking that spending more money is going to save us money!? What foolish consumer sheep we are... - brandonking, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I have a 2005 Prius. The thing is friggin awesome! I'm no treehugger (I don't even recycle), but I see alot of the "South Park" types with them. The best thing about the car is just the overall geeky techy feeling when driving it. There is nothing like wisping down a side street in 'ninja mode' - when the gas engine cuts off and you're running silently on electricity. You can basically drive to within 2 feet of a person before they even notice you, and even then it's just from the sound of gravel crunching under the wheels.
It's true that in order for a hybrid to make up for the cost premium, gas would have to be, on average $3.50 over 5 years. But consider these lifestyle issues:
-They damn fun to drive
-You stop for fuel less frequently
-They do NOT depreciate quickly - If you've looked into buying a hybrid you know that a 1 year old hybrid used will go for close to new prices due to the waiting lists
-You're supporting new tech, and, hopefully, sending a message about alternative energy
-The warranty is 10 years for all hybrid related parts (standard)
-Hybrids outperform regular versions of the same car in PERFORMANCE (a highlander hybrid has faster pickup than a non-hybrid, which is true for all hybrids)
-They don't need to 'warm up'
-You don't need to take the key out of your pocket (Prius and Lexus only) - there's just something creepy and cool when your car recognizes you
Those are the reasons I bought one. I've owned 6 other cars (and I'm 28), and the Prius is my favorite by far. - ChileanGoD, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17Yeah me too!... english is not my maternal language... and you guys are getting me all ***** up with the "then" and "than" errors. I hate you all :)
- peterlisanti, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10It's not about saving money people.
It's about using_less_oil. - xgravix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Nice comment.
Personally, I fail to see why people are buying the hybrids in such droves. In general, for them to be cost effective (As compared to other light commuter cars) gas would have to be above $5/gal, and diesel is also far cheaper than the break-even point. Ignoring misguided tax credits, hybrids cost a huge amount for you to be able to reduce the amount of smog by 0.0001% in your area. - Ebeniz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I see someone's been watching South Park
- AeroSquid, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11d e p r e c i a t i o n
biggest reason of all not to buy a hybrid.
link is farked - helfire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Duh, i mean i could keep buying and selling the car between 2 people if they allowed tax credit on used cars. Can only get credit once per car.
- Otto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Ummm.. Most of those hybrids do have regenerative braking. The electric motors driving the wheels get switched into reverse when you brake and turn into generators instead. The power from the motion of the vehicle is thus stored in the batteries. On some of them, the friction brakes are only used when you slam the brakes very hard or pull the ebrake.
- mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5All currently available hybrid vehicles have regenerative breaking systems.
- mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5God I'm tired of hearing that. How much of your $6 a gallon is tax? How far do you have to drive (compare the size of the US to England)? What kind of public transportation is available to you (which is probably paid for buy the tax in the first question)?
- nocode, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8What about 'crossesed'? Nobody noticed that? Why can't people quickly proofread when they submit something? I don't care as much when people are making comments or chatting, but a posting should be spellchecked.... can't the moderator (if there is one) do a quick proofread or something?
- lroche, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hybrids are better on gas (or diesel) in the city but just like a regular car on the highway.
They're not the end all and be all of a clean car. - PokySharpy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Not an option in Los Angeles due to the way the whole Southern California region was put together. Your one-size-fits-all "solution" is tired and cliche. Please take your attitude elsewhere.
I bet your reply is "then move." Another Internet debate classic. - mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -1/+61) Just because the engine is going to last half a million miles doesn't mean the rest of the car will. It's still the same basic transmission, frame, etc.
2) Maybe it's just a midwest thing, but diesel here is expensive. Gas is $2.50/gal diesel is $3 kinda expensive.
3) There are lots and lots of Insights out there with 120k+ miles on them, and no battery pack issues. You had bad luck with it, they are having good, doesn't mean everyone will have the same results.
4) If the batteries fail, they are just D Cell NiMH. I expect to see 3rd party replacements at a substantial discount eventually, not to mention being lighter, having more capacity, or both. (If there aren't any yet, I'm not an Insight owner).
5) It's pretty lame to see that they are basing the credits on emissions, not mileage. The manual Insight is the most efficient vehicle on the list, but doesn't get a credit anymore. - diecastbeatdown, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6or the honda civic/accord or toyota camry/highlander. those are all hybrid cars which look exactly like their gas counterparts.
- mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Seriously, have you even looked at used hybrid prices? Have you done even 3 minutes of research before you posted? 2000 Insights are selling for $10,000, half of new price. An '01 Prius is gonna cost you $12-15k.
Hybrids are holding value pretty well, if market prices are any indication. - speedyrev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The upcharge for hybrids cancels out the savings on fuel. The car is worn out before you break even.
Buying a fuel efficient car is a better choice, both economically and ecologically. - buzzkiller, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8GOOD FER YOUUUUU!
- Schmitty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I have a 94 Plymouth Sundance "Duster" w/ the V6 and manual tranny. I average about 22 city and 30 highway. Does what I need it to do, in comfort. Also been known to put some ricer's in their place >:-D I like it. I had a few Subarus before it, and I liked those too.
My point? Get what works for you. Don't try and convince others that the hybrid is a bad idea, it's just bad from your POV. I personally think it's a neat little car, practical in it's own way. If you want one, try it out and buy it. If you don't want one, keep driving your Civic or Escalade or whatever. If you like it, that's all that should matter.
Which reminds me, anyone got a cheap Subaru for sale? :-D - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Heasds up ... by a used Prius ... no tax bennies. Gotta be new.
- strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Well, how about the Lexus RX 400h then? Or the GS 450h?
The RX 400h is a mid-small sized SUV. Kick ass vehicle (close relative just bought one). Sticker says 31 city/28 highway but they average around 24-25 MPG. Bluetooth, touch screen GPS, Rear wide angle color backup camera, etc etc. 0-60 in 7.2 seconds. Two electronic motors, one gas. Hybrid system warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles. And comfortable, spacious rear seats.
Of course it runs ~$50,000. - DougPenn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Loose girls love ANY car with a big back seat.
- danielctull, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9I am the only person who pronounces "then" and "than" differently when spoken? I have no idea why this is even a problem... :-/
- bani, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4agreed. buy an old honda civic and they'll easily drive for decades. they are cheap and cheap to maintain. that's where you will save your money.
- MrStylz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5There was an article in one of the car magazines that I read that directly compared hybrids to thier non-hybrid brethren. So, the civic vs civic-h, etc. MOST hybrids' gas milage was only 2-5 mpg difference. That's horrible... They compared the price increase, vs tax, vs other breaks vs less feul usage. The advantage didn't go toward hybrids. it was a great article with a great spread sheet, I can't find it but I'll keep looking...
- strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Decent rule of thumb:
Use "then" when it has to do with time or order, as in "I went to bed, then I woke up". Otherwise, use "than", typically with comparisons: More than, less than - Otto, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6-They damn fun to drive
Opinion. Frankly, I thought driving the Prius kinda sucked since it had nowhere near enough acceleration off the line for my driving style.
-You stop for fuel less frequently
No doubt. But I only get fuel maybe once every 3 or 4 months now. Walking to work helps.
-They do NOT depreciate quickly - If you've looked into buying a hybrid you know that a 1 year old hybrid used will go for close to new prices due to the waiting lists
Fair enough, but generally I would buy a car because I liked the car. Future value of the car is not really something I care about, as I'm not planning on changing cars every 2 or 3 years like some people. If I was, a lease would make more sense than buying it anyway.
-You're supporting new tech, and, hopefully, sending a message about alternative energy
Email your congress critter. There's lots of ways to send messages.
-The warranty is 10 years for all hybrid related parts (standard)
True, however there's a good reason for that, namely that the battery system will almost definitely have to be replaced within that time period, and if they didn't cover that expensive replacement then the whole hybrid idea would get a bad reputation quickly.
-Hybrids outperform regular versions of the same car in PERFORMANCE (a highlander hybrid has faster pickup than a non-hybrid, which is true for all hybrids)
Perhaps, but only because the versions of cars being made into hybrid versions tend to be underperformers anyway. Lightweight vehicles with smaller engines.
-They don't need to 'warm up'
No car made in the last 30 years needs to "warm up". It's a myth.
-You don't need to take the key out of your pocket (Prius and Lexus only) - there's just something creepy and cool when your car recognizes you
Similar technology could easily be adapted to any existing car without too much difficulty. But there are real security issues with such a system that need to be addressed first, and Prius/Lexus don't seem to have done the necessary work there. It's basically a gimmick, is my point. - AeroSquid, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Because hybrids cost more than MSRP in many cases you take a hard depreciation hit from day 1. they do NOT hold their value as well as a regular car.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/yourmoney/sns-yourmoney-0402spending,1,2775965.story?coll=chi-business-hed - bacon_skoda, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5splitting lanes. now that is being an ass.
one of these days, I'll have use that $300 fine for littering as you pass by. - iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3wait until you starting seeing them with 100k miles on them. once the batteries are out of warranty you'll be lucky to give them away where a gas honda with 150k + miles holds a pretty high resale value.
- bluefirestarter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hybrids like the Prius are a waste of time. Toyota uses PR like this to make them look like they are a green company when in fact for every hybrid sold they sell at least 2 SUV's with the worst gas mileage in the class. They already had a recall in the UK on the first gen prius for exploding batteries can't wait to see what other problems show up.This article I've seen on a few websites and I find it quite funny especially for all the treehuggers out there
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060331/sff031.html?.v=38 - mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Let's have a contest: first one to get from my house to my job wins. You take your bike, I'll take an Insight. But let's have it in January. I live in MI by the way. Let's have it during a snow and sleet storm. We'll use about the same amount of gas. We might get there about the same time. I bet I will be drier, warmer, and more productive the rest of the day, though.
Let's stop pretending that motorcycles, which happen to get 50-70 mpg because they lack basic safety equipment, storage compartments, a second seat let alone a 3rd or 4th, or you know, a roof or windshield to let you drive them in inclement weather, are a solution that is comparable to a fuel efficient car. - bacon_skoda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"So basically, your car is going to depreciate even faster than a traditional combustion engine based car, which is established technology with very few major improvements left on the horizon."
the hybrid also has a traditional combustion engine which is established technology.
in RPG terms, thats +5 Stamina for Prius. - eshepard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've been driving a 2004 Prius since last April 2005. My "lifetime" average has been 54 MPG, including driving through the VT winter with Hakkapeliitta snow tires. I drive 80 miles a day, including highway, backwoods, and city streets. I bought the car to invest in the technology - and also, because I needed to buy a car. Hopefully the hybrid option will only entail a $500 - $700 upgrade within the near future. Toyota is aiming for that goal. My only complaint with the Prius is passenger side visibility in some situations. Otherwise, it's been great, fun to drive, quiet, the dog likes it, etc etc. It's certainly not the right vehicle for everyone, but it is a pretty cool car.
- PokySharpy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Now that I see you're just a dick, there's no need to continue having a discussion with you. Have a nice life.
(Obligatory last word in: I don't commute 2 hours each way, I love my job, I love my house which is plenty full of "stuff" even though material goods aren't all that important, I love my wife and my dog, and I play more video games than watch TV - although Lost is awesome.) - foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5"... Ignoring misguided tax credits, hybrids cost a huge amount for you to be able to reduce the amount of smog by 0.0001% in your area."
no, but they're good at increasing smug. - mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Your comparing a used (and at $2000 for a Civic a really used) car and a brand new, state of the art vehicle. The Prius has all kinds of other features; wireless keys, onboard computer, etc etc. If your goal is to spend the least amount of money over all, then ya, get a used car. If you want a new car with lots of 'fun' tech on it, the Prius is a decent deal.
$21,000 minus the $3000+ credit and your down to $18,000 for a car that has all the modern features, and gets nearly double the gas mileage of comparable models. Not a bad deal, not the best way to spend the least amount of money, but you're not pissing it away, like, say, an Escalade owner. - bjzq8, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6I have personally seen and worked on a 1989 Oldmobile 88 that had in excess of 550,000 miles on it. 3.8 Buick engine, can't beat them!
- diggitydank, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ Otto
"Future value of the car is not really something I care about, as I'm not planning on changing cars every 2 or 3 years like some people. If I was, a lease would make more sense than buying it anyway."
Problem is, what happens when you total your car? If it is only a year old, wouldn't you like the insurance company to at least give you what you owe on it? Not so much the case with a Kia or Hyundai. I know a girl who always used the argument that you should buy a Kia because they are efficient and they have a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty. That was all good and well until a tree fell on it in a storm and she only got paid half of what she owed. - DougPenn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Buy a motorcycle. 50+ mpg for the win.
- mrwise, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Has anyone mentioned that to get the tax credits you have to be in certain income brackets. The big print givith and the fine print taketh away!
- 1911wolf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3No thanks mrgreen. For that kind of weather or if I have to haul along some poor soul in MY car, I'll use my 69' Mustang Fastback. But it's becoming a minor pain having to go to Kragens and buying a lead additive for her. But it worth the glory of waking 3 city blocks when I start her up and let her purr at 5am.
- dobey123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3And if you get tired of paying for diesel, try this....
http://www.greasecar.com/ - foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"The civic hybrid looks like a regular civic, the only difference is the badge, the rims and the center-mounted antennae. It's a hybrid for people who aren't interested in making sure everyone knows that they're driving a hybrid. There's also the accord, camry and lexus."
rims? hybrids come standard with rims now? wow! i always thought all hondas came standard with wheel covers which normally get replaced by wannabe gangstas with shinier wheel covers which cover rusty steel wheels. i guess honda's persona is changing, and so is honda drivers'. - bacon_skoda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2there's a ethanol shortage coming.
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