What is Digg?70 Comments
- DarkSenay, on 10/12/2007, -5/+40dugg for the instant rebuttal from Cuban. This man owns the damn Mavericks, but still has time to argue on the internet. Impressive
- solemnraven, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19hahahahha!
Welcome to digg....you HAVE been here and actually READ comments before?
;-) - utdrew182, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19The only thing that takes up time for a major sports franchise owner are the constant trips to their cars with wheelbarrows full of money, GM's coaches and other people do all the work.
- zydeco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16I just want to know if Cuban was wearing a suit the day he signed away Broadcast.com for $5 billion.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Looks like Marc has replied in the comments section... and now they seem to be going back and forth over it.
- shakin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"dugg for the instant rebuttal from Cuban. This man owns the damn Mavericks, but still has time to argue on the internet. Impressive"
Regardless of the fact that I don't agree with Mark Cuban on a lot of issues (although as a former employee of two professional sports teams I thought his comment on NHL television ratings was spot-on), I do have a great deal of respect for any public figure who challenges his audience and spends the time to create a two-way dialog wherever possible.
For instance, if you email Cuban with a good question or comment he will likely respond to you. (Presumably, if you act like an ass you will not get a response.) - Sithlrd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12GEEK FIGHT!
- vulcanius, on 10/12/2007, -11/+20Marked as lame because it's just a bunch of old men arguing like immature little kids. These guys need to grow up.
- rolosworld, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11seems marc is jealous about bittorrent success... bram is right.
"...he's talking trash because he invested $1.7 million in a 'BitTorrent-like' company." - vulcanius, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Of course.... what else did you think I do all day while I'm at work.
- crexor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"valuing bandwidth supply companies based on how quickly they flush money down the toilet", pure ***** gold.
- stephbu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Things are getting a little personal, doesn't matter how smart Bram or BT is, nor how deep Cuban's warchest is - Cuban's point is right on the money
Content Providers love 'torrent. Their business model is billed by network egress (see the Jim Gray 1Tb thread elsewhere on Digg). More torrents == less egress from their network == cheaper to distribute content. Take Youtube as an example - I bet Google would love to see BT clients there - I've no doubt that they're paying tens of millions of dollars per month to distribute content. Imagine a typical peak 1m concurrent streams - 200kbit each, $50/mbit/s/month @ 95%ile - approx 190Gbit/s - equates to around $9.7m per month. This is probably out, I've no doubt their peak concurrent usage is higher, and their egress $ rate is probably a little lower, but you can see how the maths work. I bet they'd love to see that sawn in half or more.
As middlemen, ISP's have to dislike all forms of torrents that exit their networks - it's in their interests to minimize egress from their network borders - torrent traffic significantly adds to their network expenses (which otherwise would primarily be much small HTTP requests etc...). There is no cross-billing for ingress, and alternatives like SDSL are billed significantly higher with egress costs in mind.
End-users remain oblivious until they're whacked with To[U|S] enforcement - While network billing continues to work in this model - torrents and similar P2P models will continue to be seen by ISPs as the cost-beast enemy. As consumers we have no choice but lose. - dilema, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Sadly I don't think many got your joke, I did. I dug it. :)
P.S. It's a good question. - freff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I guess I'd listen to him if he was talking about the Mavericks, but it's not like Marc Cuban has a good track record with his tech predictions or anything.
http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990311S0006
http://news.com.com/Mark+Cuban+Only+a+moron+would+buy+YouTube/2100-1026_3-6121034.html
I think bittorrent is safe for the time being. - Uberdork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Old men? Bram is like 32. Oh, wait, this is digg, nevermind. Anyone over 18 is a senior citizen here.
- superpixel, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"Marc Kuban is a proof for my theory that you don't have to be intelligent to become rich..."
so what's your excuse?
cuban is likely responding using a blackberry, hence the typos-- uh never mind the fact that he's a wee bit busy, thus rushed responses.
and no, you don't have to be smart to be rich, just like you don't have to be smart to run a country.
smart proves nothing-- the gutters are full of wasted genius, never mind the couches of this country. think you can do better? get off the couch and do it, kiddos. - SteelChicken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If I had as much money as M. Cuban the last thing id be doing is getting in an e-argument with some nerd. Don't you have something better to do? Like travel the world or something?
- Noah0504, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I was referring to the other folks who threw in their two cents.
- f00xx0riz3r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Calling Braham Coen average hardly does him justice :p
- charityjustice, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Nothing says 'professional rebuttal' like starting with a personal attack!
Regardless of what you think of these two people or whose side you're on, Bram took the low road here. - lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3There is a misunderstanding here. Apparently, the only way to be successful, for cuban, means to make a lot of money. Cohen's definition of successful is supplying the world with a tool that revolutionizes the way we use the internet.
I wonder which definition people consider more noble? - Ulvund, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well downloading WoW updates is pretty mainstream.
So at least it's a small part of a Blizzard business plan. - SportBilly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Cuban's attitude reminds me of everything that was wrong with the .com boom - ignorant businessmen interfering in the development cycle. The fact of the matter is Cohen has invented an innovative and useful tool....its a matter time before he makes money off it. Granted he is no business man but a decent product will sell itself.
The obvious hurdle Cohen faces is can he get this thing nailed before M$ rip him off and come out with their own protocol? - WabiWasabi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Dugg for the interesting comments both on Cuban's original post and Braham's reply. And yeah, it's funny to see Mark Cuban dashing off poorly spelled and grammatically dubious emails throughout both threads. Not saying Cuban is an eedjit, btw -- looks like he's writing in a hurry and who can blame him? It's surprising he takes the time to engage in those forums at all.
Unfortunately, the big takeaway for me is that the two of them are talking about entirely different problems. Braham is saying "the protocol rocks, usage adoption proves it" and Cuban is saying "I'd like to see you monetize that usage, l00z3er!" - ArthurSucks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2bittorrent is quickly becoming a widely used standard for legal distribution. There are tons of linux ISOs available and a lot of free music from sites like Jamendo. A lot of these sites are making money off of hosting the torrent files with ads. Jamendo is now giving 50% the ad revenue to the artists.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3***** mcuban
- Tweedy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3He has nothing better to do because he's a one-hit business wonder much like the music artists (artist may be stretching it) that have number #1 hits then fade into obscurity. He rode the dot-boom wave and got out at exactly the right time. What is more useful to the people here: broadcast.com or Bittorrent. I'll vote for the second. Bram has my vote for creating something more useful than Cuban could ever hope to.
- LarzJG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If you want to go literal on what Cuban wrote, he says Bittorrent is doomed and that obviously wrong.
If you take the spirit of the post, he says Bittorrent has some serious issues as a legal way for mainstream people to download stuff online, and I think that's pretty hard to argue with. Geeks can use it just fine for illegal purposes, but the mass of people who want a legal way to purchase a movie online won't really find what they're looking for with Bittorent today.
The whole argument becomes surreal when it starts being about Bittorrent as a technology, when the true test of the technology lies in the applications that use it and the content they serve. So the people involved can spend the next two weeks talking past each other. - SystemsGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1^^ one of the main reason why BT as a protocol has it's challenges - and why technical controls will have to be build into new clients as more than the existing "tit for tat, I trust you to be honest" methodology used today.
When you look at what it will take to "secure" BT, you realize that there is actually a lot of work still to be done. - demigod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This really is nothing more than cuban pissed off that he doesnt have his paws in this and making money. It's obvious if you bother to read what he's saying. Cohen brings up the point of the protocal being strong and cuban fires back about money. Sorry cuban, not yours.
- capitapf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1how is mark cuban qualified to argue with bram cohen? kind of reminds me of celebrities talking about politics. the fact that he said bittorrent is doomed proves my point
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1...why obsess over this, obviously the bit torrent business model is evolving. Cuban seems again like a jerk who is interested in blabbering his negativity. So they're finding a business model, why announce to the world that 'bit torrent is doomed'? Why not conern yourself with your own fialing NBA team, or your own failing investments? He seems to relish in negativity of others, I'm sure he has better things to do than open his giant mouth and spew forth his tripe. The man is a disgrace, just ask the NBA commissioner, cuban is constantly complaining and whning like a spoiled child.
- WhackingDay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You'd take the time if you've invested in the core technology and have an interest the direction it's going. The thing about rich people is that they're almost never satisfied. Most of us schmucks would be quite happy with just one billion dollars, you'd never see or hear of us again. But for those people who are used to making that kind of money based on their ideas or their expertise, they don't just shut that down when they score a big win. No, they stick around and keep trying for more.
Not saying that's bad. We need those types of people to provide innovation, but a guy like Cuban is just not going to go away quietly. He's literally the second coming of Donald Trump and you don't see THAT guy going away anytime soon either. - sjgmoney, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Uh, Mark Cuban IS a nerd too.
- Soldan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1bittorrent is not doomed but it is not a viable revenue stream either....more torrents are warez or linux distros...it only serves to show how expensive software is and the fact that people are willing to steal than pay the overblown prices for things like vista
- Jumangi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Cuban is against BT for one simple reason. Its possibilities are a threat to the future business plans he has for digital entertainment.
Cuban would love if he had come up with the BT concept. I'm just thankful it was a person who didn't horde the technology becuase if it had been someone like Cuban it would be a very different place right now in that area. - pirilampo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1We really don't have all the details of BitTorrent Inc.'s business model. I think we should all - Cuban included - reserve judgment until they open shop and we get to know exactly what they're planning to do. I'm a bit skeptical, but anyway, I'm way too deep into file sharing and will only buy content in physical media. I still buy books, DVDs, CDs, videogames, but only if I can touch a package. I don't pay for digital, with the exception of a couple of online games. It remains to be seen how people who are willing to pay for digital content will take on something like BitTorrent Inc.'s shop, especially when they learn that they're also paying with their bandwidth.
- LogicallyGenius, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I am still waiting for the sequential bittorrent download capable client to be developed.
- freff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1And for the record, I think Cuban is an interesting and intelligent guy. He opens up a lot of debates with some of his comments. But he tends to dwell on the negatives that he sees, and he's been spectacularly wrong from time to time. It's cool that he's willing to go out on a limb with his views, but when they tend to take an overwhelmingly negative outlook and ultimately are proven wrong, people will remember.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I see Marc Cuban replied on cohen's blog, which is great since marc cuban disallowed comments on his blog long ago.
If anyone hasn't figured it out yet, Cuban is and always has bee na jerk who is full of himself. It's too obad about his mavericks but that couldnt have happened to a better person. - juheimbu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ASCII
- azsupra, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If Cuban really is using a blackberry I can forgive him. Other than that, he has no excuse. I mean the man is almost 50 years old for crying out loud. While I admire his business acumen, the majority of his success really was being at the right place at the right time.
- joshman5k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The guy releases an open source protocoll and is being slammed for not selling ***** on his website... that isn't very nice!
- mattyice11, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Read the original Cuban article. He doesn't slam Cohen and he never says that BT is doomed. Bram got defensive about a post questioning the long term success of BT.
- soso33, on 11/17/2008, -0/+0
Thank you for the useful information
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مسجات - directoryweb, on 01/19/2009, -0/+0I'm not familiar with bittorrent. But if it is like napster, then they have many legal issues facing them.
- TBagwell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Cuban = right place, right time. Most of what he says is hubristic drivel
- MikeSobe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Although it was an interesting read, anything posted via 'LiveJournal' loses some respect
- ThirdPrize, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Only suckers seed their downloads. Surely any commercial P2P based system will have something in the small print stating you have to leave your downloads seeding for a certain length of time. Otherwise you download the film, watch it and zap it, where is the advantage for them. Also as the complete source will always be available, I guess it downloads in sequence from the start, rather than randomly. It might mean you can watch your film a bit quicker as well, if you can download the end while you watch the start.
- PradaPete, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Mark Kuban is fugly...like he made all this bizniz to have a chance to get laid
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