What is Digg?74 Comments
- jav1231, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Personally, I don't think ANYONE should do business with China. People talk about how their economy is soaring but that's because we're enabling it. Wanna be a communist country? Support yourself.
- mystice30, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4China is chinese first, communist second. They've had a civilization that's been going on for thousands of years. The Dengs and Maos are just a new form of the dynasties that predates America... let them run their own course instead of sitting in your lazyboys shouting about who's more right. Hell if the chinese wanted western style civilization, all they have to do is move to your local Chinatown and that's that. Then they adopt your laws and practices. Wouldn't it be kind of arrogant of Google (or M$) to not conform with the laws and practices of whatever country they operate in? They even serve seaweed in McDonald's in Japan, don't they? What's the difference?
- jmacdonagh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2China IS coming around. A good portion of their economy is a market system.
- ozydingo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hey, article about google's censorship in china! Let's just flame on with the general comments on how this means Google is evil. Nevermind the fact that this is a specific subtopic and is not the place to be arguing the validity / morality of Google's decision, i don't need to read the article or stay on topic!
- blackbelt88, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If nobody would play ball with china, they would be forced to change. if anyone was going to stand up to them, it would have been google, but they too have given in.
- vinyldeejays, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ofcourse he does! he's evil as well
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm confused. Why is it wrong for an INDIVIDUAL to, say, go to Cuba or to buy cigars in Cuba. Yet . . . it's okay for multi-billion dollar international companies to do business in CHINA of all places? My little trip to Cuba for a little culture and fun is completely benign, compared to what a multi-national brings.
They don't even have any justification for this. "Just because a country doesn't have basic human rights is no reason not to exploit them for a buck".... What the *****?! - knightblade2oo4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why don't google and microsoft just buy china and make it they're new HQ?
- lollerskates, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm going to agree with the guy who said that the US is more communist than China.
Social security is a take on a communist idea. Welfare is socialist in nature. These things don't exist in China; thus, the United States is more communist, or rather, socialist, than they are.
"China is chinese first, communist second. They've had a civilization that's been going on for thousands of years. The Dengs and Maos are just a new form of the dynasties that predates America... let them run their own course instead of sitting in your lazyboys shouting about who's more right. Hell if the chinese wanted western style civilization, all they have to do is move to your local Chinatown and that's that. Then they adopt your laws and practices. Wouldn't it be kind of arrogant of Google (or M$) to not conform with the laws and practices of whatever country they operate in? They even serve seaweed in McDonald's in Japan, don't they? What's the difference?"
Finally, someone who gets it! It's hard to understand civilizations that are thousands of years old if the US is just a few hundred. - lordsandwich, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I was almost ready to give Google a pass on this until Bill defended their actions. Now I KNOW it's wrong. :p
- saleens281, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0lol@jasgwerty
Apparently you missed that part where they can buy up our debt while having a lower GDP. Last I checked GDP has absolutely NOTHING to do with the debt of a country, or their ability to buy someone else's. Maybe you should take econ101... - jakethecake, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7They droped it 30years ago, China is now a fascist state, with it's capitalist elite, just like in the US.
get over it.. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Having a google search in China INCREASES the chance that some of the freedom stuff will get through, even though it is being censored. That is what billy boy is saying. He thinks that even with a censored (how many filtering systems are perfect?) version of google, the information will still get through.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0bah. only reason he did it was because *his* company is also trying to make money over there in that lucrative chinese market. call me when he donates as much money to HUMAN RIGHTS causes as he's done for TB.
- hax0r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It's a typical response of someone who is purely a capitalist.
Capitalists don't necessarily care about who they are doing business with or the ethics of their customers. The attitude is that if the customer is willing to pay, then why not take the money. In this case, Bill Gates is clearly dead wrong. I'm not opposed to communism, but I am opposed to oppression and censorship. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wonder if Micromafia's Beijing campus has anything to do with it.
- jinexile, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1People tend to use communism and facism interchangably, because communism in practice has never existed, it's pretty much always been a facist regiem claiming to be communist. It's one of my pet peeves, but it seems like most Americans (and Canadians) born pre-70s were never taught the difference.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1even digg has censorship...albeit democatic censorship
- saleens281, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0jkfan87
Where did I say bush ever said anything about communism. Clearly you're - themilkman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2china needs to drop that communism garbage! its so, 20th century! and how can you expect ANYONE to become education when you stop people from accessing knowledge?
- mistshadow2k4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Bill, you approve of cooperating with a repressive government with a history of mass murdering non-violent protesters. You're doing this for money. So what's your excuse again?
Right. There is no excuse and trying to defend yourself for it only reveals how completley you lack morals of any kind. Cut the *****, Gates. You've proven that you're probably the greediest bastard alive, and you don't care how sleazy and outrightedly evil you have to get to make even more money, so stop even trying to justify it. It's not possible to justify this *****.
And yes, the same goes for you, folks at Google. There is no justification for dealing with a government known for massacring it's own people. "Do no evil" is pure ***** now; you're just another Gates-wannabe. - rwitt62, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So the concept of free speech means nothing to Microsoft, Google, et al., as long as there's a profit to be made? Thank goodness we have the First Amendment in the U.S.
- saleens281, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"If nobody would play ball with china, they would be forced to change. if anyone was going to stand up to them, it would have been google, but they too have given in."
Hardly. Baidu.com anyone? China already had their own google, google not being in China wasn't, and wouldn't have hurt China one bit. I think you have a grave misunderstanding of the Chinese economy if you think a search engine staying out of their borders would hurt them in the least.
PS: China isn't communist as others have said. If you think otherwise you've got quite a bit of reading to do :) - Ajzzz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google operates within the laws of nations that some people might consider against basic human rights. When Google refused to give information to the U.S. government recently, it was not on moral grounds. The new slogan "Do know evil, unless your hands are tied".
- saleens281, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Another idiot. You know, at times I wish people hated us as much as you claimed, instead of it just being jealousy. I mean, is it hate that makes all our borders creak with the surge of people that year after year try to get in here in any way they can???
Also, can you define what exactly has changed in 5 years. What exactly would the 'founding fathers' be so egregiously dismayed in seeing?"
Warrantless spying on it's own citizens.
That great new law that says harassing someone on the intarweb is a felon
ability to be held without reason indefinitely in a prison
we could get into freedom of speech given that any "protestor" is now being tracked by the FBI...
I'm sure there's probably a thousand more that are "top secret"... bush & co do a good job of labeling any piece of information that may cast them in a bad light as "crucial to the security of our country". I mean, in this "post 9/11 world" things are just so different... - Reddog_x2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What good would it do to stand up to the Chineese Gov't?
Will they reform because Bill Gates & Google etc. won't do business with them? NO
Will the Chineese people benefit from having Google, MSN etc. blocked? No.
Could these companies perhaps be a bit slow in censoring certain search results?
Maybe
Could they maybe serve as a proxy that can get you to banned sites, if you know how to "hack" them? Maybe. - wtfunkymonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Gates really couldnt have done anything but back google (or stay silent I suppose), afterall he's doing the same thing.
- Lynxpro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0
If you don't consider U.S. history to have evolved in a vacuum but another chapter of English/British history, then it too goes back a whole lot longer than 200ish years. Our legal system is a direct import from England, and thus our laws are shaped by almost 1,000 years of prepackaged history.
If you count us as an indirect continuation of Roman/Western Civilization - as the Muslims consider us to be no different than the Crusaders - then we too are ancient. So no props to China's ancient history of totalitarianism as an excuse as to why they don't respect basic human (Western) rights. - dignon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0jc103 says:
"In the US we have the freedom to dissent with our government, and the ability to use Google to research why."
LOL - And your precious US government is monitoring your dissent by forcing Google to turn over its logs (see http://tinyurl.com/83q8e), so that they may better squash your dissent, or simply label you as a "Terrorist", long before your voice can be heard. Your blind patriotism is killing America.
America has clearly taken a sharp turn over the past 5 years, away from the ideals of its founding fathers which made that country great. The world no longer looks to the US as a becon of hope with the guiding ideals of freedom and independence for all... and that should worry the US. I for one hope that the citizens of the US will wake from their slumber and start actually questioning their government again, only then will this path be corrected.
Bill Gates is obviously just another selfish capitalist trying to justify his obviously flawed actions, following the money at the expense of ignoring human rights abuses. - jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0LOL @ saleens281
Sad that you bought into the liberal propaganda. Do you even know how much China actually finances us, at all?
Slight clue: China GDP x 5 = USA GDP
It's a good starting point for the math that might eventually wake you up. - algorejr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"The opening of an R&D center in China will strengthen Google's efforts in delivering the best search experience to our users and partners worldwide," said Alan Eustace, vice president of Engineering at Google. "Under the leadership of Dr. Lee, with his proven track record of innovation and his passion for technology and research, the Google China R&D center will enable us to develop more innovative products and technologies for millions of users in China and around the world."
Now that the China R&D center is developing products for 'around the world' and China is censoring the results for these world wide products, the google.cn censorship is more profound than at first glance. - drawkbox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Again silly humans, MS is Google, its their rebranding effort.
- silverHalo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Great to see all the China bashing going on when everything we buy at Wal-mart is made in China.
Such hypocrites we are in the US, it saddens me to no end..... - jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0LOL @ dignon
Another idiot. You know, at times I wish people hated us as much as you claimed, instead of it just being jealousy. I mean, is it hate that makes all our borders creak with the surge of people that year after year try to get in here in any way they can???
Also, can you define what exactly has changed in 5 years. What exactly would the 'founding fathers' be so egregiously dismayed in seeing? - davegzzy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That is very interesting to believe that the US is more communist than China. The US does have more welfare policy than China but there is a difference between communism and socialism. Should America not provide any type of welfare so it could not be confused with communism?
Also, just because a country has certain beliefs about an issue such as China's belief to persecute journalists and repress its peoples' opinions doesn't mean that anyone has to be in accord with it. If Bill Gates were to stand up against China's policy and sacrifice some potential future earnings then that would be more admirable than "defending" Google's decision to help censor the web regardless of how long the Chinese dynasties have predated America. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Funny how information about our "internet warfare" plans just happened to get out, amidst all the controversy with the NSA's spying, and requests from the government to the search engines for their stats. China has been in that game for a number of years now... controlling what their people see on the net will be an enormous advantage if they ever decided to attack someone. They can basically fill their people with the proper attitudes needed to do what they need done. The U.S. on the other hand has to try to pry their way into it's citizen's lives and then can only go to the big media companies to spin propaganda, which may or may not backfire. All in all I'd say China will have a pretty big advantage if war were to ever break out, but I'd rather die a "free" man than lose ALL my liberties and live.
- algorejr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How this affects you and me is that China didn't buy Google, they bought influence.
As a stockholder you can't delete search results, but as the single largest sponsor of Google, you can affect how Google's algorithms behave today and in the future for all of Google's products.
I can't believe that a companies product from one line doesn't affect other products the company produces.
China's influence to delete search results will affect all Google products today or in the near future.
Google - Made in China. - 0Troy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0When Gates is standing up for your "questionable activities" there's something wrong.
dThat's like Saddam saying that what someone did wasn't really that bad... - jwillicu2k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1All governments censor, including the United States. It's human nature to censor this that don't present the best light in something you have a strong belief or stake in. Censorship has nothing to do with business. That does not mean that censorship is fine. But if we are going to come down hard on China, we should do it for everyone, including ourselves.
Okay, I'm done. You can attack me, now... - ashika, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i'd rather live in china. they at least are aware of the fact that the ruling party is entrenched and their choices mean diddly squat. here people actually think that democrats and republicans are different. it's like duff, duff dry, and duff lite.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Standing up to China is not the only possible answer.
If google stood up to them, then China would just ban google entirely. How would that help???
There are different ways to run nations, each has it's course. For instance, 200 years of the USA has kind of run it's course. Look at where we are heading now....same with china. - stisev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"Money is not the root of all evil"
And power - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Ya, know, we can't change china, just like we really can't change Iraq. Things have to happen internally. And when things did, 1000s got killed, Tiannamen Square.
Eventually I feel china will come around, but they are making a lot of money now on the backs of the poor. Wait, that sounds like the USA too.... - saleens281, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"So the concept of free speech means nothing to Microsoft, Google, et al., as long as there's a profit to be made? Thank goodness we have the First Amendment in the U.S."
They're corporations out to make money, at least they have a decent excuse. What's GWB's excuse for doing so much business with China? After all, communism is the devil that we swore to wipe off the face of the earth****.
****unless they're funding our war for oil in the middle east buying up our national debt - jpt62089, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Wonder what Bill is smokin.... o.o
lol - rhyno2000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Nice that the article qualified who Bill Gates was right off the bat.
- frem001, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0if it's in their interest they'll adjust their ethics to make money. It has always been like this, just look at the us government and who they help put into power in other countries.
- senfo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I think it's funny that somebody had to introduce Bill Gates as "the billionaire founder of Microsoft".
- crimson117, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0chinese searcher: "hey google, give me the most relevant results on Falun Gong, Tibet, and democracy"
google: "here, have some communist propaganda!" -
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