What is Digg?Sponsored by Travelzoo
Take Advantage of Ridiculously Low Holiday Airfares view!
travelzoo.com - Flights $52 and up for Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Year. But move on it now.
154 Comments
- krewemaynard, on 10/12/2007, -11/+56Except he kinda seems to be right on this one. Google is listed as a choice, and in alphabetical order, which puts it AHEAD of MSN. And why shouldn't MS promote MSN search? What do they owe to Google? Google needs to chill on this one, and quit throwing "monopoly" around.
- chesterjosiah, on 10/12/2007, -21/+62Microsoft is being more than fair by putting the list in alphabetical order. It's their browser; they should be able to do whatever they want with it. They SHOULD be able to get rid of the search bar and make users search from the address bar, powered by MSN. IT'S THEIR BROWSER!
- tHePeOPle, on 10/12/2007, -8/+49Try: "You scratch our back, we'll scratch our back too."
- orbitalleader, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20The minute a tech company whines to the government about being mistreated is the day to sell its stock.
- lane.montgomery, on 10/12/2007, -9/+26Listen, I'm not an MS fanboy, but Balmer has a point here. Google wants the list to be in the order of the most popular (i.e. Google first instead of Ask.com) AND they also want the user to be prompted with a choice of the search engines whenever IE is installed.
That is just going overboard.
MS could be doing a number of dastardly things here that they are not. Such as automatically switching the default search engine to MSN, or prompting the user to choose a search engine with MSN featured prominently at the top.
All that is not to say that Google doesn't have legit concerns about the MS monopoly, but they are barking up the wrong tree here. - krewemaynard, on 10/12/2007, -10/+26"Now, if Google is accusing Microsoft of abusing its power as a monopoly, that's a different story."
FTFA: "Sergey Brin, one of the co-founders of Google, used the "M" word--"monopoly"--to describe Microsoft at a press event on Wednesday and said the software maker didn't necessarily play fair in certain situations."
Sounds to me like Sergey is pitching a fit here, with a little name-calling on the side. Yes, MS got in trouble before, and I'm by no means a fan of theirs. But this is not a question of monopolistic practices. MS isn't excluding Google, or breaking it in IE7. If you find out otherwise, then we'll talk. - ToddFFW, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18If google is shouting the "M" word around, how come all of their applications are (initially) only supported on Windows? Shouldn't they embrace cross-platform desktop applications to avoid contributing to the monopoly?
- inaxdaze, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19@nanoguy: "Google ISN'T listed as a choice when you install IE7b2. You only have MSN. If you want you can add Google, but after adding Google the next time you open IE, it will still use MSN. So then you have to go and change another setting to tell IE that you want to use Google."
And MSN isn't a choice when you install Firefox, what is your point? Google needs to quit whining and get a life on this issue - do they really think that not being included as the default search engine is going to suddenly cause them to stop being the current number one search engine?
And, for the record, when I installed IE7 Google *was* listed in the list of search providers - in fact, it was the default setting due to my current IE6 settings. - kiwimonk, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13man. the guys at google are such noobs. if i wanted to be at the top of the list. i'd just rename the company to !~Google.
l33t for sure - tyho, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Keep in mind this is what Balmer says Google said. Not necessarily what Google said. Dig?
Doesn't sound right. Most people would choose Google anyway if a box pops up asking their choice. Regardless of how far down they have to scroll. - dmbrooking, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15So I'm a Firefox user and a Google user... just to give some background on my comments...
But they want IE to prompt a user for their default? In the same way that Firefox prompts me for what I want my default search engine to be? Oh that's right, it's Google, and set that way automatically.
Google is being a crybaby here.... funny how we don't hear Microsoft whine about the way Firefox's search capabilities work. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Look up the anti-trust history with Microsoft. They use their leverage as the most used OS in the world to spread to media players and internet browsers. That right there: Against the law.
- bugfaceuk, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15Google is way off base in this case, they should be listed. Do Google offer MSN searches from their home page? Nope....
- miller9time, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Amen to that! America is a free market society, if you want to beat the competition produce a better product and convince consumers to use it. Don't go crying to Mommy and Daddy (I.E. the government) for help.
When IE 7 first came out didn't Google have a button on their page that made them the default search for IE? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9He's afraid of using automatic updates after he stole an os he doesn't like.
- Tyberius, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Simple solution: Don't use IE.
- Joemafia69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Finding the claim that google wants the No1 search provider listed first being publicly stated by google is proving difficult. But I think that that is actually balmers opinion based on recent articles by the NYTs.
Basically it looks like google is upset because MS is setting the default to MSN (if it was previously not changed to something else) and not giving them a choice.
http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/003743.html
"Google is raising objections to the way that it says Microsoft, the incumbent powerhouse of computing, is wielding control over Internet searching in its new Web browser.
Google, which only recently began beefing up its lobbying efforts in Washington, says it expressed concerns about competition in the Web search business in recent talks with the Justice Department and the European Commission, both of which have brought previous antitrust actions against Microsoft.
The new browser includes a search box in the upper-right corner that is typically set up to send users to Microsoft's MSN search service. Google contends that this puts Microsoft in a position to unfairly grab Web traffic and advertising dollars from its competitors." - ohmar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@EPeter
I recall a time, not too long ago, when the gaming console world wasnt their field either. - RCourtney, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@orbitalleader
I've read and re-read that article twice now - I do not see anywhere that states either in quotations or otherwise that Google wishes to be "first" on the list. If you will please paste the exact line stating they wish to be the top choice in IE7 I'll happily eat my words. Either way though, I think you need to re-read the article which you claim as your defense.
"The best way to handle the search box, Google asserts, would be to give users a choice when they first start up Internet Explorer 7. It says that could be done by asking the user to either type in the name of their favorite search engine or choose from a handful of the most popular services, using a simple drop-down menu next to the search box."
"The Firefox and Opera browsers come with Google set as the default, but Ms. Mayer said Google would support unfettered choice on those as well." - mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Is it just me or when companies start small, they start out humble and as soon as they get big, they pretty much lose their focus and become arrogant? Kind of like celebrities who cannot handle their fame?
- mistshadow2k4, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11"Oh, IE is only used by 85.17 percent of the users, acording to OneStat.com."
I gotta call BS on all these browser stats. By default, Opera identifies itself as IE unless you change that in preferences. The user-agent switcher extension for both of the Mozilla browsers can also identify itself as IE. 've never seen any of these most-browser-used statistics that took that into account even once.
And all the "It's their browser so they can do whatever they want" posts prove that you guys don't understand anti-trust laws, or why those laws exist in the first place. - chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9once a month like clock work for me.
maybe you got it setup wrong - krewemaynard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@Lynn: Look close...there's no logo for Google! They've got that stupid Lycos dog, but they can't put a "G" on there? :)
- Lynn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9One click in IE7 gets this page. Click on the search provider you want. How is that hard?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/searchguide/default_new.mspx - EPeters, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14I have a feeling that this "request" from Google never happened. Also, this article yields better information than a stupid rivalry between Ballmer and Google. Microsoft needs to stick to Windows, Xbox, and Office; "websevices" is not their field.
- dist0rti0n, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7When I installed IE7, it kept my google search bar and my search pref set to Google. I can't even figure out how to enable MSN if I wanted to. I have to agree that Google is out of line with this one.
- youareretarded, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Actually I have no problem with IE being the default in windows. I also have no problem with safari being the default in OSX 10.4, I also don't have a problem with most linux distros using mozilla or firefox as the default web browser.
Why? Because in every case I can install and use something else.
The day I'm not allowed to use something else is the day I switch OS's. - tnwake, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10@lnxaddct: Actually you misquoted Chester.. he didn't say they can do whatever they want, he said they can do whatever they want WITH IT (their browser). As much as I hate Microsoft, they can program their browser to be biased towards their search engine. What they can't do is use their power to make it harder for me to use other browsers. If I don't like the way THEIR software (IE) is biased towards THEIR search engine.. then I get a different browser. Who still uses IE anyways?!
- jjb80, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@timalmond
http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/technology/google_microsoft/index.htm
"The market favors open choice for search, and companies should compete for users based on the quality of their search services," Marissa Mayer, the vice president for search products at Google, told the Times. "We don't think it's right for Microsoft to just set the default to MSN. We believe users should choose." - tHePeOPle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@miller9time
Actually, if you want to beat the competition, produce a better product, then convince the porn industry to use it. Guaranteed success! - adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Microsoft wants to display the search engines alphabetically.
Google wants their search engine to be first.
I don't understand how Microsoft is being accused of promoting a monopoly in this issue. - DAMU, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13This is all from Ballmer's mouth, I want to see official Google documents saying they want a list presented to the user sorted by ranking.
FUD - cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Google's "Do No Evil" is about to bite the dust, if it hasn't already...
- youareretarded, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hasn't stopped apple from doing the same thing, nor has it stopped most linux distro's from doing the same thing.
Your claim is a stretch at best! - sanza, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3When you pay for the research and development of a product you should have the right to 'accessorize' it however you see fit. When Google invests the funds and comes out with GoogleBrowser I would expect to find their search engine in pole position.
By the way, how do I change the default search engine in the Google Toolbar? Turn about is fair play, no??
As for the whole 'monopoly' issue, whenever you have a consistent winner (that pulls in big bucks) someone will inevitably play the monopoly card. If the leading OS maker pulled in only 2 million a year no one would even care about this. And speaking of monopolies, what does Google think it's got in the search engine business? When can I I find a Yahoo button on Google's page?
So what's next? A 12 pack of Coke having to include a can of Pepsi? Who will decide where that can of Pepsi should rest in the container? All I know is that when IE7 gets installed on my system I will change the default to Google. I rarely use IE6 now, but rest assured I will change it's defaults to the way I like it. It's just not that difficult. - thatsiebguy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11Yea, Google should just be happy they are listed period.. No where does it say you have to include your #1 competitors product in your product just to be fair... As for not being listed first, boo hoo...
- SupaDawg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6FYI. (timalmond) I logged in just so i could mod down your comments. You've said the same thing 4 times. You have a valid question, but if somebody is going to answer it they would do so. Stop repeating yourself.
- tijer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You're wrong. If search in IE is routing 50% of online searchers directly to msn - then Google would most definitely have lost 30-40% of those as a result. This is a question of aggregating economics, within large-scale multi-purpose corporations like microsoft.
Google has to reply - they need to make a better partnership with either mozilla - or create their own browser to compete with microsoft on their own level. Basically because the US judiciary system is not capable of battling a company as large as Microsoft. - krewemaynard, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11@nanoguy: When I go to Google in IE6, Google offers to be my default search engine. I don't see why they can't do that for IE7.
And again FTFA: ""Google wants us to prompt the users to change the defaults. They want to see a list of search providers, with the No. 1 search provider listed first," said Ballmer, who was speaking generally and not recounting a formal meeting or discussion with Google executives.
IE 7 offers a list of search sites that can become a user's default search engine. The list is alphabetical, so Google is listed after some (such as Ask.com) but before others, including MSN.com. IE 7 also doesn't actively suggest to a user that they can change their default based on their recent search histories or other behavior."
I'm just going by what I read here, and it sounds like Google is making a big to-do over nothing here. - nanoguy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7"When IE 7 first came out didn't Google have a button on their page that made them the default search for IE?"
This is the technical response to MS using their monopoly power to their own advantage. What Google wants is to stop MS from using its monopoly power. The better product argument is B.S. if you have monopoly power, you don't need a better product. You only need one that is good enough. - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Why doesn't Google just rename themselves AAASearch.
- icefitz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@sparkey
and how do you add new engines in firefox..... oh yeah that is right
https://addons.mozilla.org/search-engines.php
i also understand that the serach box does not work the same way but there is no difference in firefox to adding a new engine to the list - zopu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This is FUD.
Google suggested that IE should allow a ask to choose which search engine to use, rather than simply defaulting to MSN.
Balmer added "They asked to be first". Big difference.
If somebody can paste in a quote to prove me wrong, go for it ! - julio361, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@tnwake: "Who still uses IE anyways?!"
Oh, IE is only used by 85.17 percent of the users, acording to OneStat.com. - nlatimer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3He's being dugg down because he's calling an executive at a computer company one of the most evil people on earth. I mean seriously, in a world where we still have despots killing those who disagree with them.
- youareretarded, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So you don't want the end user to have a search engine at all? Then how are they going to search for search engines? Create a page that has a list of available search engines? Who is going to maintain and update that list? Who gets to decide what order that list is in?
That's pure BS!! How does that benefit the end user?
Who are you guys trying to protect? Google and their main revenue generator?
Please your (not necessarily the the posters above) arguments are weak!! - Ireland, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"Ballmer: Google wants special treatment in IE" More like: Ballmer needs special treatment" ;)
- eythork, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4MICROSOFT IS NOT A MONOPOLY. The operating system market is a perfectly competitive market. Price=marginal cost. Basic microeconomics. (and no MICROeconomics are in no way related to MICROsoft). I've been running linux for years and haven't payed a penny. If Microsoft made apples and decided to charge $300 a piece...for the same apples every other farmer produces and people are stupid enough to buy them...you should blame consumers for being stupid idiots, not Microsoft for being a marketing genius. Branding...the concept of making people believe a commodity with special name is somehow better than a nameless commodity. The commodity with a name suddenly becomes a monopoly product because trademark law prevents other producers from using that name. Stupid consumers believe the marketing blitz. Smart consumers don't. If you disagree with such practices blame the government...they make the laws that make these things possible.
- Firethorne, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Google (and a lot of others) are a bit pushy with trying to get presence in a browser, usually with their toolbars. I've already used Tweak UI to make the IE address bar a search for altavista, google, yahoo, msdn, etc. You just type the prefix for the search you want, then the terms. In short, no one company, Google or otherwise, would even need to be put as the default. If you know how to set it up properly, you can have all at once.
- q3ctf4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What's funny with Google is they wanted IE to start with the most popular search engines as first choice for consumers. Why should choices for homepages be limited to search engines? Mine is cnn for example. Google messed up on this one as far as I'm concerned.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 154 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is