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129 Comments
- elpayo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6*****. I hope they get the Price-Rite Photo treatment.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4i am loving how cities are deploying free wifi, even its its a little slower, or less privacy its great to see the big bells' shaking in their boots over lost revenue.
- heartless_, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I hated Bellsouth DSL when I was forced to use it. This is a pretty sad story if they are putting their inability to adapt to the times over hurricane victims.
- lordsandwich, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"How would you react to someone destroying your livelihood?"
Compete with better products and/or lower prices? I think this is what big corporations used to do before they formed monopolies and cartels. - SplatGuy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4So let me get people's annoyance straight. New Orleans is saying to BellSouth: "We're going to take effectively the entire future of your business and do it ourselves. With taxpayer dollars. At a purchase price of $0.00." And BellSouth is supposed to say, "What a great idea! Here, have our real estate for free!"
People may think corporations are evil, but think how you would respond if something you were selling were suddenly provided by a government using taxpayer money to ensure it was at a price no one - NO ONE - could compete against? I doubt if you'd be happy.
New Orleans is effectively trying to lock BellSouth out of any future in their city. Hurricane Katrina doesn't give anyone the right to slap another's face and demand they smile and offer the other cheek. If you want to bankrupt a business, fine, but don't pretend the business is being unreasonable by not responding in the most affable of ways. - SplatGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2All the people who are saying not-for-profit wifi is a good idea and should be in every town might like to consider this. Wifi is a young technology and can become a lot better than it currently is. How will we reach that better standard of wifi? By researching, developing, and investing.
Why do companies do R&D? Because it will expand their profits. And when your town doesn't have free wifi you can invent a new product and test it out by selling it. If it's a success, your company grows and your new and improved form of wifi spreads.
Unfortunately, if your town does have free wifi provided by the government, you will most probably not be able to compete. As a result, towns with free wifi will make R&D (and hence better technology) a lot harder to achieve. The more governments offer free wifi, the less R&D you are likely to see.
Sure, for the time being New Orleans' wifi will (probably) be (nearly) as good as a private system, assuming the government isn't too overwhelmed with other reconstruction tasks (yeah, right). But will you be able to pick a plan that suits you? Will you get the options you want? If wifi's not your thing, will you get a tax exemption? No way, unless you move out of New Orleans. And does anyone seriously believe that the government will be able to sell it off without unions going crazy, and without big strikes and the like? Get real.
"Free" wifi isn't free. All it does is stymie competition, innovation, and choice. Say "no" to New Orleans residents being forced to pay for a service they wouldn't choose to buy if they had the choice! - AdamCo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Like AnteChronos pointed out:
"According to the BellSouth spokesperson, the offer is still on the table. The info on the removal of the offer is from some unnamed "city officials". I'll suspend judgement until I see what actually happens as opposed to what unnamed sources say."
I think hardly any of you read the article before posting comments. - adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"i am tired of every business out there being evil. i think the democrats need to get back in power - they may be idiots, but at least they aren't stupid enough to let corporations run the country."
What country are you living in? It sure as hell isn't this one if you think the Democrats are any less likely to take money for something. - Historian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sounds like a public relations nightmare for Bell South if this gets more attention.
- AnteChronos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2According to the BellSouth spokesperson, the offer is still on the table. The info on the removal of the offer is from some unnamed "city officials". I'll suspend judgement until I see what actually happens as opposed to what unnamed sources say.
So, no digg. - dBLiSS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"people are impressed by bill gates donations, and the donations of other gorssly rich people, but it's all the same. it has many strings attached. it's not a donation in all cases, but a bribe, even if it's for lip service."
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation have paid out more money then any chartiable organization ever. It is unrelated to Microsoft. Do a little research before you speak with ignorance. - TigerX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Utterly pathetic... Shows how much BellSouth REALLY cares about the people of New Orleans and the surrounding area. As one who has donated time and money to the area, you people should be ashamed of yourself.
- GenxBear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Looks like the almighty dollar of big business wins over the sympathy & compassion we have to help rebuild the city. Shame on you BellSouth!
- SplatGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You said it, CorpT. Governments might be able to do an alright job to begin with when the project is new and shiny, but do you really think they'll spend the millions... and millions... and millions EVERY single year to maintain the network? When voters are paying for it, can you really imagine city officials deciding to do a major round of much-needed investment in an old, creaky wifi network? In 2015, do you think the wifi network will be a boon or an expensive white elephant no one can get rid of?
Also, some people seem to presume that when the government provides a more comprehensive service than the private sector (like citywide wifi), it's a demonstration of governments correcting market failure. Pfft! What it means is that the costs of establishing such a network are not matched by the price consumers are willing to pay - in other words, costs exceed benefits. The difference is that governments, not being motivated by profit, are really bad at working out when the benefits aren't exceeding the costs. Good reason to leave it to the private sector! - imichaelj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1One of two things happened. Either a city official had some axe to grind with BellSouth and lied, or BellSouth actually did threaten to do this. But given what their spokesman has said, it would be pretty much impossible for them to back out of the deal now. So either way, BellSouth is going to go through with things, or face a far greater PR crisis than if they had just been secretly threatening to pull out.
- motorbikematt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Digg, but only because Bellsouth never wired my neighborhood for DSL because: "there's no market share here...it's only just a bunch of old people".
Jerks! - JaggedEdge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Whatever...im just happy crap like this is happening to BS. Bellsouth will get bought up by SBC (now known as AT&T....they bought out AT&T a while ago and are now realizing AT&T is more well known)...well anyways theyll buy out Bellsouth soon enough and then they can go suck a lemon for bein such big *****.
- khintzma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A required homepage should be The Weather Channel. Esp. for the Mayor's office.
- spoid_, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How much will this "free" wi-fi network cost the taxpayer? Yes, they have lots of free equipment, but without the profit motive, the government always seems to do things more expensively and less effectively.
- .Steven, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"*****. I hope they get the Price-Rite Photo treatment."
I Second that! :) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The USA is under attack by corporate terrorists, In my city the local cable company has an agreement that if the city sets up their own wifi
service they must charge people the same rate as the cable company, and the cable company gets free access to the network. This was done as a side deal without public input or knowledge. - SplatGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wasn't saying it wouldn't benefit other businesses. I was saying it would cripple BellSouth.
And the analogy between the airport and the free road is disingenuous. They both serve radically different markets. In New Orleans, the city is directly competing against BellSouth. And, as anyone in telecommunications can tell you, wireless internet is essentially the future of *all* telcos.
Making wifi free may well end up spurring more economic activity than the economic loss of offering it for free. However, my point was that these criticisms of BellSouth are calling it greedy and callous, when its reaction is actually totally fair and (dare I say it) just given the anticompetitive behaviour of the city.
Again I ask: how would you react to someone destroying your livelihood? Would you donate them property? - AdamCo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Here, I will quote it from the article to make it easier for you guys:
"BellSouth spokesman Jeff Battcher disputed the city's version of events.
"Our willingness to work with the mayor and the city is still on the table," Battcher said. "We've been working for over two months on this building . . . we are a little surprised by these comments."
Battcher said Oliver spoke directly with the mayor on Tuesday after the WiFi announcement and told him they needed to continue to work through issues regarding the building. He said BellSouth is awaiting the mayor's response." - taymar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I really don;t blame Bell South for being upset. There is no way that the Government should compete with private industry. People seem to forget, like with the record companies, that they need to make money to provide jobs and service. Nothing is free.
Bell South puts a lot of money into the various communities they serve, in addition to providing service at a loss to many very rural areas. This may sound funny to suburban and city dwellers but it is a big problem in some of the towns with 100 or so people.
I am concerned that so many younger people seem to think that everything should be free, if that is the case who will hire you and where will the money come from so your customers can buy your goods and services?
- pseudojd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0bill.mccloskey@bellsouth.com is the director of governmental affairs for bellsouth in Louisiana. let him know what you think.
- borderpatrol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"This is one of the few situations in which I would approve of the city using eminent domain priveleges to gain ownership of a building."
Thats what it was made for.
"A required homepage should be The Weather Channel. Esp. for the Mayor's office."
So true, so true. - secretivecoward, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0If the citizens in new orleans had free wifi in the first place, they could have received warnings earlier and safed lives.
- agent_smith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"I really don;t blame Bell South for being upset. There is no way that the Government should compete with private industry. People seem to forget, like with the record companies, that they need to make money to provide jobs and service. Nothing is free"
You are right, but here is the thing BellSouth will still make the money. Who do you guys think will provide the pipe INTO the city? It is going to be one of the top tier providers and Bell will make a killing on just providing the city with a fat pipe to the internet. Bell still keeps a support staff for that function, just their legacy ...yes legacy services like dialup and dsl go away. They give way to Cox in that area which will provide consumer/business class service and Bell can compete with Cox on the business service...voila...everyone keeps their jobs and the business model still works. - Madguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Maybe they were really afraid of NOLA officers looting their building.
- Genghis1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why don't they use your tax money to raise cattle and give everybody free burgers? Or build an auto plant. Free cars! Where
does it end ? I say keep every penny you can away from the government !! They are bankrupting the country. - Paradigm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm glad BellSouth did this. I don't want my taxpayer money that was supposed to go to REBUILD New Orleans to go to provide free Wi-Fi Who needs Wi-Fi when the Levi's will no longer keep water out of this city? I think the administration of New Orleans needs to get some priorities straight.
- XRay777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Just because corporations have brought about positive things (NONE of which they do out of altruism of course - and rightly so), are you corporation huggers suggesting we just let them go unchecked?
And that comment about "They [the government] are bankrupting the country"... which government are you talking about????????? Federal? State? Local? Many of us are happy with our local government... and it is THAT government that wants to provide wi-fi, not the feds. The feds? Are you kidding???? That'll happen the day after New Year's Day, 2050. Hell yeah, the feds are over-bloated.
Oh yeah... and about prioritizing the levees above Wi-Fi? You think the city itself is rebuilding the levees? Try the feds by way of Army Corps of Engineers. - bcnewman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0rm999 said "i am tired of every business out there being evil. i think the democrats need to get back in power - they may be idiots, but at least they aren't stupid enough to let corporations run the country."
Congratulations!!! That is the dumbest most ill-informed comment I've heard all day!!! Sheesh...
~brian - PrezKennedy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0After reading this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/30/AR2005113002109.html) a few days ago, I'm not surprised BellSouth is doing this. They're trying to milk as much money as they can from whatever direction they can get it from.
- danielson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"To all of those Bell South / Corp defenders... try reading articles from other corp/community battles from across the country. It is a FACT that telcos in general do NOT like someone else providing wi-fi... pure and simple. Defend THAT."
Of course they don't like someone else providing wi-fi. Why would they? I don't think anyone is saying that they DO like it when someone else is providing wi-fi. I'm sure they especially don't like it when the government is effectively taking the people's own money and then telling the people they are getting something for "free". All of you tend to forget the government is from taxes, which are basically forcing you to buy something, even if you don't need or want it (i.e. "free" wi-fi). I personally think the idea of government provided wi-fi is a terrible idea and it will be of terrible quality, much like other government projects (i.e. the projects, universal healthcare, welfare, etc.).
Here's one of my favorite quotes for all of you socialists: "The American republic will endure until the politicians find they can bribe the people with their own money."
-Alexis de Toqueville - jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@Swift2
Really? Like where? In the States, every person gets the same level of care, quickly, given that someone is footing the bill for it. Insured well? Then you pay 0. Insured okay, then it's split. Not Insured? Then you're paying for the care.
Okay medical insurance is easily budgetable by a family of twoparents , with at least one parent working, and ~ 3 kids. Single, umemployed mother, with 5 kids? Well, sucks to be you. Wear a rubber.
Also,
"In my city the local cable company has an agreement that if the city sets up their own wifi... "
WTF??? How badly did your city get conned by that company. The city ALLOWS their little monopoly to even exist, and can revoke that at any time they choose. Tell your mayor to hire a legal department, seems you guys majorly need one. - rileyjt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0So is this a 'donation' or a bribe?
- AdamCo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0EmmEff;
"The building suffered basement flooding and needs some repairs but has 250,000 usable square feet of space."
That doesn't sound too dilapidated to me. - AdamCo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Thats just a fancy way of talking but not really saying anything. Of course BellSouth would say that! People often forget that these companies lie to the public every single day but people don't like to think that!"
Yea, city officials never lie. Excuse me if I don't trust city officials of new orleans after the way they so properly prepared for and helped the people of their city before, during and after Katrina. How do you know making statements like this to the press aren't a move by these city officials to put bellsouths back against the wall and make sure that the building is donated? Maybe it wasn't final yet and they wanted to make it final, quick. You people are so one sided because you want everything "free" and are against major corporations for no reason. - EmmEff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Give me a break... Bellsouth's intentions are to continue to rob NOLA customers in exchange for a free, delipitated building. Corporate America doesn't do favours without expecting something (major) in return.
- hammerattack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0EmmEff: How about you give me a break: Bell South doesn't take money from people, people give money to Bell South in exchange for phone service. There's no coercion, and if people don't feel BellSouth is treating them fairly, they don't have to buy. This anti-corporate circle jerking line of crap is old and tired. It's time for you kiddies to grow up.
- enzomedici, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0
Well, Bellsouth shouldn't really be angry about a free wi-fi network. The phone companies (along w/ record companies) have to realize that they cannot control everything. The wi-fi will have to use someone's pipe.
On the other hand, some of the comments here are just plain dumb. Businesses make money and employee people, that's how we buy nice computers and pay our mortgages. If businesses cannot do that, they fire people. So next time you lose your job, don't bitch.
The hilarious thing is that a city is wiped out and we're talking about free wifi. People don't have jobs or houses and the mayor's answer is free wifi? WTF?
The same people responsible for the evacuation plan, should in NO WAY be responsible for rebuilding the city. That's just plain stupidity.
Their plan so far is to rebuild the same crappy levies and then lure people to move back with free wi-fi. When another hurricane wipes out New Orleans again next year please don't show me all of the people who were too stupid to evacuate again. And if I see another celebrity telethon begging for people's money I'll puke. The celebrities could just pony up and give that money instead of taking it from people who can barely make ends meet in the first place.
You're bitching at businesses? If New Orleans was run by a business it would have been evacuated. Business is a better friend that government anyday.
New Orleans should either have levies built to withstand a category 5 hurricane or be evacuated permanently. Wi-fi is not going to help. - Jammerdelray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Forced to use bellsouth?!? I've never been forced...I have a choice from roadrunner, bellsouth and Comcast.
- SparQy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0BellSouth sounds like scumbags. Glad I only have to deal with Canadian scumbags.
- wyrder42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm searching around the 'net and so far I can't find any direct sources for this other than the Washington Post article. The Post is a reputable news source, of course, but with something like this, I think we need more sources.
- Swift2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What's this? Free wi-fi? You mean, we'd have to compete with the really high-speed technologies? Higher security? Video streaming? Special services? No! We have a right to captive audiences!
- nlatimer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Bitter Baby Bell
- mercury81, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0what a bunch of babies
- agent_smith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The BellSouth huggers are getting on my nerves. First off, Intel donated all the WiMAX gear that NOLA has recieved. Intel understands that the city/state are flat broke and cannot exactly afford to pay for this gear to get a network infrastructure up immediatly. Secondly, Bellsouth is relying on their current installed plant (read copper) infrastructure to service the NOLA area with limited fiber capabilities. Usually Bell leases as need be in the NOLA area. BellSouth is now scared as their incompetence in bringing newer technology to the consumers at cheaper prices is just not happening. What seems to be the problem? This is darwinism of corporations. The right enjoy this sort of changing of the guard..it is capitalism at its finest.
Other countries benefit from tripple digit megabit links for pennies on the dollar while in NOLA you pay 500 for a single frame relay T-1? Something isn't adding up. Bellsouth has simply rested on their laurels for too long and now they are seeing the err of their ways.
Others have pointed out the solution here will be for new businesses to also compete and to use the public network as leverage to add benefits to the services that new business offers. Security issues aside, the public network could easily create a situation where the barriers to entry in the market would be decreased as the cost of a network infrastructure could be reduced. Admittantly you will not be running VoIP packets or video packets on this free network but nonetheless there are suitable applications.
Cutting off BellSouth's livelihood? You damn straight. -
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