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- masprema, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36The reason there is so much carry on luggage is the fear that your luggage, if checked, will not arrive with you.
- HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28I agree with you, but the solution to this problem lies with the airlines.
Waiting for luggage to show up at the carousel can add an hour or more to the trip. After suffering through increasingly unpleasant flights, most people want to get the hell out of the airport as fast as they can. When the airlines make a habit of delivering luggage in a timely manner, less people will be overstuffing their carry-ons. - inline, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Refreshing to hear such an honest researcher:
Van den Briel then spent two days at Los Angeles International Airport, where America West was filming actual passengers as they boarded, positioning one camera on the Jetway and another inside the aircraft. He spent the next two weeks analyzing these tapes, clocking the times it took passengers to complete certain tasks. "You can't imagine how boring this was," he says, laughing. - jschlegel, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14One way to speed up boarding, is to strictly limit carry on luggage! Why do people need to take so many and so large luggage in the cabin area? A purse or briefcase should be more than enough for a 2-3 hour trip. I often see 90 pound women (young and older) pulling a 50 pound suitcase down the isle, bumping every other seat, then trying to lift it into the overhead bin. And you know darn well, that suitcase did NOT fit in that little metal cage to measure carry on baggage.
- witooo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Dude, your supposed to write a comment here. Not a 600 word essay!!!
- habu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7while i agree w/ you jschlegel, masprema is right. If the US airlines want to help speed up boarding they need to make sure checked luggage actually gets on the same airplane as you.
- syberghost, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Peace of mind? According to every check ever done, it's easy to get guns and bombs onboard an aircraft. Nail clippers, now, THAT'S hard. If you get "peace of mind" from the security checks, well, I guess that's your option; but you're no more safe than you were without them.
Bomb sniffers on the luggage, background checks on the loaders, armored cabin doors, and armed cockpit crew; THOSE things make aircraft safer. Random searches of my 7-year-old (yes, it's happened, to MY kid) don't. - selmo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6And the contents of your luggage not smashed, broken or stolen. It's too frequent, and the airlines have ***** policies towards reimbursement claims. I won't trust anything more valuable than my dirty underwear to checked baggage.
I have to travel with medical equipment which must be carried on, not checked. Which, by law, does not count against my carry-on limit. But that doesn't stop me from getting dirty looks from other passengers or hassled by flight attendants who don't know the rules. - tzmguitarist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Not to mention that up until 4 years ago you were allowed to check upwards of 100lbs in your checked baggage. When they capped it at 70lbs it hurt and I started carrying more onboard with me. I even went and bought a new rollaway. But THEN they capped it at 50lbs 18 months ago. Living on the road doesn't afford the luxury of NOT having more than one pair of shoes and 5 changes of clothes. Alas, I had to carry onboard nearly as much as I could legally get away with.
The real kicker is that they still ALLOW heavy bags - you just have to pay. :-/ - selmo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I hate the mad-dash for seats crap--it brings out the worst in people, and I find it the most stressful part of the trip I refuse to fly Southwest on trips > 1hr because of their seating policy, even if they're cheaper. I'll happily pay a little more to know my seating is waiting for me and I won't have my family spread out across the plane in cramped middle seats. Southwest feels like travelling by bus. Blech. Too bad, as I like the rest of Southwest Airlines (people, flights, prices, airports served, etc).
- HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7The only problem with the way Southwest does it, is that people are jostling one another to be first on the plane so they won't have to take a middle seat, or so they can sit at the front of the plane. I've seen some confrontations develop over it. The stampede that results is pretty unpleasant, and is a real danger to passengers who aren't too healthy...like the elderly.
I think assigned seating is better because of this.....or they could provide bigger middle seats. - jwolf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ jschlegel
If just traveling overnight (or for a weekend) a large carry-on can suffice as all required luggage.
Not having to wait for your luggage to arrive (if you're lucky) in the baggage claim saves time, aggravation and stress.
I often travel this way. - PhilTheRed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The answer is gate-checking. If you take a small 50-seater plane, you have to place your bag down by the door if its anything much bigger than a purse. Then when you get off it's waiting for you right by the plane. Why can't they do this with larger aircraft? As opposed to checking at the counter where you'll end up waiting at least half and hour at the baggage claim before you have your bags.
- d03boy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I happen to take 2 laptops with me nearly everywhere I go. No they dont fit very well but have you seen how they handle luggage? I'm certainly not going to leave it with them to throw around. They dont treat the luggage kindly at all and in no way am I going to risk damaging thousands of dollars of equipment because the AIRLINE wants to earn a little more money.
- duke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Maybe they should just REMOVE the overhead bins to discourage carry-ons. Then, if you carry anything on, you have to sacrifice your own foot room. It will save time and resources at security gates too.
- EricAnderton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4While I agree wholeheartedly, there's more to it than that. What if there's more luggage for that particular flight than will fit inside that airplane? Yup, you gotta shove the extra bags onto another plane. :(
After all, its not like taking the family truckster across the US, where you can just lash the extra stuff to the roof. With that in mind, discouraging carry-on luggage may only make the problem worse.
//checking in early is the only way to make sure your stuff is on your plane. - BionicBeefpile, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I fly Southwest fairly often, and I think their seating scheme works best. I haven't ever witnessed the "stampede", but there are the people who will line up very early to be the first in their "zone" to board. The thing that works well is that you are rewarded for checking in online (by being placed in an earlier boarding zone), and that you have a feeling of empowerment in getting to actually choose your own seat.
If you get on and there is a baby next to a fat person in your favorite row, just sit somewhere else!
It seems like it can be a pain for families in the last boarding group, as it's harder to find seats together, but usually people will shift a bit in those circumstances.
The improved turnaround time/decreased passenger interference during boarding is a serendipitous side-effect for the airline. - fani, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Here's one faster way --
let people board using the multiple doors on the planes. Plain and simple. Just build the extenders to other doors from the main entrance.
This way you don't need to travel the whole airplane to get to your seat at the end and you don't need to wait ridiculous amount of time to exit the plane. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4These computer models are too divorced from reality, no matter that they are based on watching video of boardings. For one, they're too focused on loading the steerage passengers.
How many times have you been on a fully seated airplane, everyone sitting more-or-less docilely in their seats, and sat there for twenty further minutes on the tarmac waiting for the bags to be loaded on the plane, or sat there waiting for the fat-assed executive in first class whose connecting flight was delayed to arrive (to name but two examples)?
So, how much time would have been gained in these cases by shoving each passenger into the nearest available seat...?
[Obligatory stupid proposal: Remove the middle seats, make the aisle and remaining seats wider. Fewer people (and bags) to board with more space to do it in == Potentially much faster loading, which means the airline can run more planes to make up for the 'lost' seats that no-one sane likes to fly in anyway. Additionally, those forced to fly in the cattle-car compartment will have more room and be more likely to enjoy the flight, which generates goodwill towards the airline in question.
Sadly, this scenario probably won't be able to make up for the extra fuel costs in running more planes...
Fine. Antipodean proposal: Knock every single passenger out and then stack them in the plane like cord-wood. No conscious people == No problems boarding, no food requirements and no need for the stewardesses (just a couple extra baggage handlers). Nobody has a good flight, but the airline maximizes space while minimizing expenditure; the only things they care about anyway.] - joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Some other options:
How about more than one door? Seems to me that the obvious bottle neck is one door + one narrow aisle.
Even adding just one second door to the back would, in theory, significantly speed up boarding time.
Wider aisles? Yes, that means less seats. I imagine at some point the benefit of more maneuverability equates to faster turnaround which equates to more flights which equates to increased revenue that may or may not make up for the loss seating space. I dunno.
Actually ENFORCE boarding order? Seems the biggest problem with the back to front system is that it only works if people actually line up in that order. Rarely have I been on a plane where some schmuck hasn't cut the line and try to stuff is carryon in the middle of the damn plane while the back 10 rows are trying to get by him.
fantasy solution: doors for every aisle. Board and exit like a car. (likely not practical, of course. ;o) - Zzone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6People will start fighting over window seats.
- quadvods, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ryann Air (the Irish Airline) already has a 25 minute turnaround.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Southwest figured out that planes sitting on the ground aren't earning money and adjusted their model to fit this. They do a pretty good job in turning around a plane fast, 20 minutes is the goal and they often meet that goal.
- techvoyager, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3All these plans go out the door the moment you fly a busy route on which the airline has many, many frequent flyers to board. As soon as they let granny and the screaming kids on, 80% of the waiting lobby lines up as soon as they announce "Now all Super DeLuxe-Extra Special Gold-Platinum-Silver-Bronze-Aluminum members may board".
- LoungeActx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3well said, they have those little jigs to measure the size of carry on bags when you check in, however, I never once have seen them use them. I've seen people that carry actual pieces of luggage on and very rarely does anyone say anything. Granted, I've seen a few flight attendants ask people to check their carry on's at the door of the airplane (that holds everyone up.) but at least someone said something.
If people would take into account other peoples' existence and not just think about themselves, things would move much faster. The same holds true with traffic jams on the highway. If everyone respects everyone things will just flow better. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Actually, people do not care, just as long as it is not the middle seat.
- Jeebugorn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2ok, i've flow back and forth across the us, and from us to germany MANY times. i've never had an airline lose my luggage, and i've never had to wait more than 30-45 mins (max) to get my checked bags. i've flown on delta, united, luftansa (sp), american, and i'm sure a few more that i can't remember.
- dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Letting people sit where they want isn't anything new. I remember a flight I was on at least 10 years ago where they just handed you a placard saying what number person you were to check in, and then they let people go in in groups of 20 i believe... 1-20, 21-40, 41-60 etc...
- umdigger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Isn't this about speeding up the total turn around time. I think that if more people could bring just 1 bag for a 'weekend trip' it would save time loading and unloading the luggage which in my opinion probably takes longer than to have the passangers board the plane. But I didn't study it so I don't know.
- sosuke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2One the subject of travelling light, my brother made it Russia for 2 weeks in one bag
http://www.onebag.com - TugsMcgroin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2A thai airline does this (I forget which one), and it was great. I wondered why everyone was lining up so early to get on the plane... when the boarding call went out, the rush was on. Since the plane was only half full it wasn't a problem, but I imagine it could be for those with small kids or elderly. It wasn't quite a stampede, but it was hurried.
- rasterbator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2most single people don't realize how impossible it would be to take one bag for a weekend if you are married with kids. That being said, it is usually the Type A personalities that think they can bring a 50 pound bag on board and shove it into the alotted space for 3 bags. Nevermind enforcing the boarding order, how about enforcing the damn bag size limit? Department stores should call the bags carry-on bags and not exceed the size limit, and bags larger should have to be checked or the person deboards the plane and is sent back to the counter.
- ebob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Phil - The problem with gate checking for larger aircraft is that there would be too many people trying to get their luggage at the same time. For a 50-seat aircraft, this works well. For a 250-seat aircraft, not so well. For the new A380, this would be a nightmare!
- bbear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The reason my carry-on luggage is so big is because I usually don't check-in any luggage. It saves time.
- scruffmaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Simple application of industrial engineering. Kudos none the less.
- Jeebugorn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2well said
- Cronus6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2When are they planning to clean the aircraft? Already planes are often full of crumbs with dirty cups and used napkins jammed into the "magazine" pouch.
Also they can not give up "early" boarding for the handicapped/unaccompanied minors (children under 14 flying alone) so if you have several of "those" on a flight you can kiss the "quicker" turn around good bye. Both of these passengers require special "handling" both getting on and off the aircraft.
IMO, the "secret" to flying is to try to get a seat directly behind 1st class. In "most" boarding schemes you will be called last to board (giving you more time to get to your gate, and more time at the bar ;) ) and first off making for a much more enjoyable flight. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2lowest turnaround in the world, micheal o'leary is a legend.
- Zeusdawdy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I fully agree. My wife and I went to Memphis from Kansas City one time. We flew into St. Louis then flew into Little Rock. Then rented a car to drive to Memphis -- ticket cost was about $300 each plus rental car. If we would have flown into Memphis ticket cost would have been about $800. Each. It took about 10 hours for the whole shebang. Ditto on the way back.
The next time, we rented a nice big luxury car that basically _floated_ down the road -- it was like riding in a cloud -- I have back trouble and wasn't uncomfortable at all on the 8 hour trip. Total Cost? About $150 for the rental car. For the entire time.
So, if we have a connecting flight anywhere, and we can drive there in under 10 hours, we are going to drive every time. - FenderGeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1d03boy:
I've had several flights where I had to literally run from one gate to the next in order to make my connecting flight. In those cases, they don't have time to unload the baggage from the previous plane and distribute it to the next plane, so they just throw it on a later flight heading to the same place. It really sucks arriving at your destination before your luggage does, but it happens a lot. - Lax32, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah, it may be faster, but then you have people fighting over seats, other people going around asking people to move to get seats together, people getting up and having their seats stolen, you know how it is. People as a whole are rude, selfish, and apathetic towards others. Cranky people who dont want to spend 8 hours in a seat they dont like are even worse.
- peter303, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How to handle "cheaters"?
The method would would have to handle "line jumpers" or people who take
their seats right away even if it isnt their turn. These people block the aisle
then for the better techniques. Once in a blue moon a boarding pass clerk
will tell the line jumper they are out of turn. But that takes time to do and
slows things down.
One of my co-workers is a line jumper in the rare times we travel together.
When I ask them about it, they always have some rationalization like they
arent feeling good, or they traveled alot lately and "earned" an earlier spot. - doig007, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wasn't there a similar article about this a few months ago? I think it concluded that random boarding, especially when combined with no seating allocation, like the budget airlines in Europe practice, actually works better.
Nature News has some coverage: http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051205/full/051205-11.html
arXiv: http://www.arxiv.org/abs/physics/0512020 - stuffhappens, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I once flew in a Britten-Norman Trislander (18 seater) regularly between two islands. You could sit where you liked but when the pilot sat down he turned around, had a quick glance at everyone to make sure we weren't all on one side of the plane - and if we were he asked a few of us to shift over to the other side!!
- polo8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ryanair (www.ryanair.com) are the Irish Airline which allow people to choose their own seats. They mainly operate in Europe but are about to open up in Mexico. Choosing your own seat on a short flight is fine but I'd hate to have to do it on a transatlantic one. They are going to start charging for baggage too (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4647906.stm).
- UltravioletMars, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The problem with the airlines is summed up with the sentence:
"An airplane only generates revenue when it is in the air"
When the only thing that matters is maximum profits you wind up with what we have now.
The problem is not a faster turn around. - DrRobert, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I fly all the time and the best way to speed up airlines is to get Americans (yes, I'm American) to stop being such ego centric bastards about everything. I was flying a Japanese domestic airline and everytime the plane would show up 10 minutes or so before departure. I'm thinking "great, now we'll be an hour late", but everytime the people got up as one, got off the plane in a few minutes, and got on in a few minutes. All the planes left on time... and these were 747s. I was amazed. They emptied a 747 over and over again in less time than it takes Americans to empty a 25 seat Candair Regional Jet. People just need to get their act together and realize that they are not more important than the people behind them. They need to take the appropriate luggage, don't try to unpack or organized in the aisle, and don't suddenly decide you need to go against the flow of traffic to talk to someone. Oh, and don't try to wedge a steamer trunk that you can barely get over your head into an overhead compartment half that size. At least give up after the first few minutes.
- PhantomZmoove, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm 6' 5" so I can save you from having to imagine what its like. It sucks, big time. Feels like I've been capped at the knees on all flights. I'm very thin, so at least I can sort of fold my legs up under me a bit. I still have to find storage space for my arms too. I try to go aisle seat, so I can hang out of my seat a little after everyone is seated.
Eh, that is what I get for being tall and too poor for 1st class. - Sapsucker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I fly every week from midwest to west coast, so this is something I'm painfully aware of. Really though, you have two types of flights: business flights, and vacation/holiday flights.
Business flights--only a few things matter, because everyone knows what they're doing in the following priority:
(1) Did I get my upgrade to first?
(2) Crap, first is full. I better make damn sure I get my carry-on in a bin, because a LOT of people have 'status', so after first has boarded, it's game-time.
(3) There's always some bastard who puts up his carry-on AND his laptop/briefcase/coat in the overheads. These people need to be summarily shot on site.
(4) Where most of the boarding delay occurs is people getting on the plane last have some fantasy notion that they're going to get their bags in an overhead. So they file in, only to find out that there's no room left, one of two things happen: (a) Some dumbass spends 5 minutes trying to rearrange bags over 3 overhead bins to smash their bag in somewhere and/or (b) people spend 15 minutes shuffling back and forth back out to the boarding entrance to gate check.
Vacation/Holiday Flights--half of the people on the plane travel once or twice a year and have no idea what we're trying to get accomplished. Here's some problems:
(a) They have no clue what they're doing in general--once they find their seats, they put their stuff in the bin (assuming there's room) the wrong way or think they can fit it when it's obvious it won't, and then they spend 3 minutes 'getting settled', getting up to get stuff out of their carry on they forgot--etc. Not their fault, just saying they're not used to flying so they're slow as hell.
(b) A lot of times, you have families and kids. They are sitting in different seats sometimes and need to switch around. Also, apparently, the time to get stuff for kids to play with out of the carry ons is AFTER you've put it in the overhead bin. Never really understood this, but then again, I have no kids so probably shouldn't talk...
(c) You ALWAYS have Mr "I paid X-hundred-dollars for this ticket" who thinks he deserves special accomodation to find room for his bag as the overheads fill up. This guys kills me. Sit down and shut up.
So anyway, I see a couple ways to help solve:
Business Flights--simple limit on the total # of number of carry-on bags. If a plane can max carry 100 'normal' carry on bags, cap the limit at 90 and gate-check the rest once it gets over the limit.
Vacation Flights--I think this is really about reminding customers not to be idiots. ie: (a) make sure you have everything needed for your flight out of your carry-on (b) step-by-step: 1. Put backback/purse/etc on seat 2. Put overhead in bin 3. Sit.
Bottom line though is: the more seats they pack in, the bigger problem this will be. - fani, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Here's one faster way --
let people board using the multiple doors on the planes. Plain and simple. Just build the extenders to other doors from the main entrance.
This way you don't need to travel the whole airplane to get to your seat at the end and you don't need to wait ridiculous amount of time to exit the plane. -
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