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AACS LA: Internet "revolt" be damned, this fight is not over
arstechnica.com — What is it they say about history? Those that don't know it are going to look really clueless when they repeat it? Something like that. AACS, meet DeCSS. DeCSS, meet your latest imitator.
Andy.D- 1265 diggs
- digg it
- darkstar949, on 10/12/2007, -1/+37The AACS LA needs to focus more on the big picture here and less on the hex code itself - even with the code out in the open the vast majority of people can't do anything with it due to the lack of technical expertise. With out a decent amount of skill at programming and knowledge of the algorithm to decrypt the contents of the HD DVD the code is still inherently useless outside of a rallying flag for people against DRM.
- strikezero, on 10/12/2007, -33/+1809 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
AACS cant prevent people from posting 32 characters on the interweb. NEVER - strikezero, on 10/12/2007, -28/+1...
- Quikster, on 10/12/2007, -21/+20309 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BE
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BF
[BANNED]
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C1
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C2
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C3 - gharding, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9A lot of people can't do much with the DeCSS code either. Which is why people have written software to decrypt HD-DVDs. It's out there currently. Anybody can go out and download it.
- gharding, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Enjoy: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123282
- gamebittk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Highlite of article:
"The AACS LA has missed the lesson of DeCSS: the Internet holds no secrets. While one might sympathize with their predicament, the larger lesson to be learned here is that security based on secrets is truly no more secure than any other form of security. Once that secret is out, it's game over. The more you try to stop that secret from spreading, the more likely it is to spread. The more coveted that secret is, the worse it gets." - tvh2k, on 10/12/2007, -24/+15@quikster:
You mean I can't say: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BG ????
:-P - directedition, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24DeCSS was source code that actually did something. The AACS hex code is useless without a context.
- timtastic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@darkstar: What do you mean by "focus more on the big picture"? It seems to me the AACS LA has two options: 1) sue and get money 2) don't sue and don't get money. Which one would you pick?
The AACS LA only exists to license and enforce a DRM system. They have no other goal. They will survive as long as the law provides. What do you suggest they do? - willemmulder, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Tvh2k:
If you try to be cool to say what 'shouldnt be said', and try to jump on quicksilvers jokewagon, then you suck. big time.
If you mean it as a joke that BG doesn't even exist in HEX, then you're funny.
I don't know. No digg up, no digg down. - schoate09, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14***** the AACS LA.
- lordthor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23"If the local neighborhood gang is throwing rocks at your house, some people might tell you not to call the police because they will just throw bigger rocks,"
Worst. Analogy. Ever. - darkstar949, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@timtastic - The big picture is the sheer number of people that are spreading the code and in a way stating their displeasure with DRM. Also, the bigger picture is the algorithm used to decrypt the HD DVD - as others have noted, the code is worthless with out a key, and even if you know a key is worthless if you don't know the context to apply it to.
- Cerebral, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Actually they (meaning lawyers for defenses against AACS LA) should use this guy's own quote against him: "A line is crossed when we start seeing keys being distributed and tools for circumvention. You step outside of the realm of protected free speech then."
Well this was only the key and since his logic says that the line is crossed once you start seeing keys AND tools then as long as both are not posted in the same place then there has been no line crossed in his eyes. - Splizxer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2comment
- timtastic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@darkstar: Thank you for clarifying. It's a good point that once a code as simple as a 32 digit key is released to the web there is really no point in trying to supress it. It will continue to exist regardless of your efforts. It follows that the main goal of the AACS LA right now should be prosecuting the hacker who released it to the full extent of the law, and not trying to play whack-a-mole with each site it pops up on. It is definitely a good point about fairness and reason, but I'm afraid not all of our laws are always fair or reasonable.
- 800266622, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3argh. they're even printed on paper and posted around my school (University of Texas at Austin)
- strikezero, on 10/12/2007, -33/+1809 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
- spalVl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+62Talk about bad timing to push DRM initiates on consumers. Techs have always know the harm caused by DRM.
-Then in 2007 Gates, Jobs, and the GPLv3 all spotlight how DRM is harmful to consumers and the technology industry.
-Consumers get to see the real chilling effects of DRM with death of the VCR and rise of DVR while struggling to get content to portable media devices which SHOULD be a simple task.
-EMI's choice to drop DRM with ITMS, and publicize it.
-Zune's wireless DRM failure
-Both the major HD optical disc DRM schemes circumvented at some point in 2007
Does the media industry need to be reminded they are attacking their own customers?
I personally was not fighting against Digg the other day, I was fighting against AACS LA trying to destroy information. - JOjimBO, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36I love that we tens of thousands of consumers are considered nothing more than vandals to these asshats.
Information is not controllable the way it used to be and this form of swatting at the wasp nest that is freedom of information does nothing to aid their cause. I can understand that they want to keep proprietary information secret....but a leak is nothing more then insufficient security problems on their part.
I truly find it amazing that corporations are arrogant enough to believe that the toothpaste can be shoved back into the tube.- fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6I don't think you "vandels", who vandelised and attacked digg the other day, realise that you're not representative of consumers or mainstream anything.
Here's a few signs you guys are nowhere near "reality":
- Apple has sold 2,000,000,000+ songs, despite "omg nobody pays for music" theories kicked around here
- Advertising is a trillion dollar industry, despite being proclaimed useless/obsolete/dead/whatever around here
- GWB, Cheney etc still aren't indicted, despite digg users requesting or demanding it on digg for months now - rotten777, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I love how I'm considered nothing but a consumer to you.
- JOjimBO, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@rotten
If you can take personal insult off of my post then I do think something else of YOU now.
Corporations do count all of us as consumers, and accordingly we fall into good and bad categories.
Good consumers if we buy their products endlessly and often.... asking no questions and believing everything they say.
Bad consumers or "vandals" in this case if we do not roll over and expose the underside of our belly to their interests.
Screw them, this is the dog that we nurtured and fed that has now grown to the point that if believes it owns the house and the yard...
We as consumers need to roll up a newspaper and smack them on the nose from time to time. - spalVl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Honestly it is a stupid tactic for the AACS-LA to attempt to fight back at this point. What happened the other day resounded pretty damn loudly among the tech community. It even made news in the mainstream media, the world has changed, information to the masses doesn't just come from 3 major networks anymore. It comes from 3 major networks, specialty news networks, blogs, forums, and peer special interest groups. If they continue to pursue this issue there is a real danger that consumers may wake up to the real problems that the DMCA and patent systems allow this type of monopolist behavior to occur.
Buy hey if the AACS-LA wants to start a propaganda war about how DRM helps consumers, go for it. Just check your closet on DRM's purposes to "help" consumers. - fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Mainstream media was reporting how stupid digg's users are. They weren't congratulating you or applauding your efforts.
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5DRM is harmful and kills Penguins.
- actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Psst...You're not a consumer in the business sense if you don't pay for stuff.
- fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6I don't think you "vandels", who vandelised and attacked digg the other day, realise that you're not representative of consumers or mainstream anything.
- firekrakcer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19OH NOES!!! THEY ARE THROWING ROCKS AT MY HOUSE!
Poor Ayers, he will never realize that by his actions he caused a couple pebbles to become a hail storm.- Navicerts, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Yeah, and his police comment..... Did anyone tell him the internet is actually global, not just in the US?
- directedition, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Don't blame the police. They aren't exactly up to date. Last they heard, the internet was still the ARPANET.
- AndrewDB, on 01/10/2008, -19/+7While I'm for the freedom of speech and all that good stuff, the posting of the 32 Hex codes needs to stop. I don't want to see Digg go down in lawsuits because some idiots decide to continue to post it even after Kevin made a huge post about it and basically said "If you want to talk about it, talk about it here."
Hell, the whole posting of the codes fiasco got so bad the other day, I logged off digg for a while...
Something I NEVER do. :-/- Pimpalicious316, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21i care deeply that you logged off digg, i really do.
- kahrn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25[insert getting laid joke here] [citation needed]
- skyfire1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I logged off digg to get laid. ('1)
('1) www.flicker.com/14124684/image/skoriff/fwds.jpg
- unusualbob, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Why don't they just ignore them and use the BD-ROM Mark technology.
If you dont know what that is look at wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Digital_rights_management_.28DRM.29- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Because AACS LA has nothing to do with that. Their whole purpose is to license AACS DRM, so if that goes down, they go down with it...
- sljepi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0The article is poorly written, however gets the clear point across. Pretty much summarizes how I feel about the whole DRM situation.
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5The biggest problem with DRM is that, unlike typical security which has trusted parties on each end, one end of DRM is not a trusted party. You can't have an encryption monopole (unless you just xor your file with /dev/random, real useful).
- Yegger, on 10/12/2007, -58/+5you guys are all a bunch of fags.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD
OH NOOOOSSSS NO MORE DIGG!
whatever am I going to do !- tvh2k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19Dude, you didn't even get the key right.
- willemmulder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22He copied from quikster's reply I guess...
Trying to be cool with something he doesn't know anything about... His life must suck... - Cerialthriller, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3L O L i dont even know how hexadecimal works and i instantly knew the last 2 were wrong. What an f'ing moron. I dugg that up just so other will laugh at him.
- actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I dugg that up just so other will laugh at him."
Really? I dugg him down then blocked him.
- zex18ro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9make the product WORK LIKE IT SHOULD and we would buy their crapp.
the poor guy couldnt watch it on his equipment... - kevin45, on 10/12/2007, -21/+10I wonder how some of you think you're entitled to not pay for products. Sure the key is out there, but this is Digg, not a pirating forum. Don't get them on the Digg staffs ass just because you guys want to act like 12 year olds and copy and paste something 3489538 times you probably can't even use anyway.
- MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -21/+6Mind your own business.
It doesn't affect you, so shut the ***** up. - kevin45, on 10/12/2007, -14/+8Mind my own business on a public forum?
Won't even point out the irony there.
It went pretty overboard. It's the kind of thing that can ruin a community when the community members are irresponsible; it was funny for a time but as the hours passed on it got old. - MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -11/+16Uh... right. You don't seem too smart, so I'll spell it out for you.
If people rip a DVD, it doesn't affect you. So shut the ***** up about it, and get off your moral crusade about trying to tell people otherwise. It's none of your business what people do with the items they paid for.
No one said anything about "stealing" anything. There's something called Fair Use rights that we have. You aren't familiar with them because you're too busy shoving your head up your ass.
The community members were responsible in this case: protecting their right to do whatever they want with the items they own. Not all of us are brain dead and complacent.
Got it? Now get the ***** out. - kevin45, on 10/12/2007, -16/+6You're one of the 12 year olds I guess. If you want all this ***** posting of hex keys, go to doom9, quit reposting it on digg.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Who said anything about piracy? This battle is over posting a string of hexadecimal characters on websites. Those characters might potentially be used for piracy, but the same is true of the number 4 and the letter W. Shall we ban those too?
What about companies who make computer monitors? Chair manufacturers? Optometry offices? Those are all related watching pirated movies!
p.s., MisterFlaut, say it don't spray it. You can convey your message without being aggressive. - Bleachers7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21This has nothing to do with paying for products or the ability to use the key. This is about the idea that something like a string of text can be removed from the Internet. It cannot be removed, so let's not pretend.
- floatingpoints, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9"Won't even point out the irony there."
Haha, do you even know what irony means? You sound like one of those 12 year olds. Considering you're automatically assuming people will be using this to steal when there are just as many legitimate uses (fair use being one), just shows that your logic is around the 12 year old level.
But you really don't have any right telling people what they can or cannot do. I'm not sure why you're going way off topic and trying to justify what you posted. - Moocat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I just like making backup copies of my own movies, seriously. Why do I get punished for that again?
- kingpin2k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@kevin45
I'll assume you're serious. Let's break this down a bit...you are caveman Ugh and I'm caveman Agh. I've just "created" fire. You see how I make magic hot light and decide you'd like to do so as well. Exactly what product have you stolen...none, right? You've COPIED something. Fast forward a few years to when information is made up of 1's and 0's. It's now as trivial to copy a series of 1's and 0's as it is to copy fire (probably more so). Anyway, I'm sure the FIAA (Fire Industry Association of the Ancients) would have made this whole situation much better. - dorianh49, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@ kingpin2k: wh... what? Are you trying to cash in on the whole Geico caveman phase? You lost me at "Ugh".
Anyway, I would think "fire" would have some kind of "prior art" "thingie" going on for "it". Ever heard of "lightening"? - Cerialthriller, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@kingpin
yeah thats makes absolutely no sense...
here is a better analogy:
Say for example Tom creates a pair of pants. You see him sitting on the corner, trying to sell them to the passing people. So you go to the store, buy some materials that might be a little lower in quality, and duplicate the pants. No you sit at the other end of the block and hand out the pants, that look almost exactly the same, to people for free. Now, people may turn you down and buy some from the guy selling them. Some people (like myself) would take the free ones, try em out, and if they liked them would go back next weekend and buy a pair as well. And some people will wear them once, decide they are crap, and toss them out. And some will love and use them over and over.. - furude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@cerialthriller
In addition, your bootlegged pants don't come with ads plastered all over them like the originals. - actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"This is about the idea that something like a string of text can be removed from the Internet. It cannot be removed, so let's not pretend."
It's not about trying to remove a string of text from the web, it's about setting a precedent that legal action will be taken when that string is posted. The intent is to deter by the threat of monetary loss.
- MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -21/+6Mind your own business.
- MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19I think they're just pissed because they have absolutely no case whatsoever :)
The key by itself is useless without the ripper, and the ripper is useless without the key.
By themselves, they're perfectly legal.
Sorry, but if I wanna back-up media that *I* own, I will - and really, I don't give a ***** about what any law says. My law states that what I purchase is mine, and I will do with it whatever I please. If you wanna refund my money, then we'll talk. But till then, don't worry about what I do with my own stuff, and STFU about any hypothetical situations that your stupid asses concoct.
So what now?- firekrakcer, on 10/12/2007, -14/+2Whatever man. You know your going to be copying your friends, cousins, strangers HD-DVDs whenever the rip software/affordable burn media comes out.
- MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10...and if I do, that's not really any of your concern now, is it?
I love some of the logic you people have.
How about we take away your computer since, you know, you COULD rip a DVD or download music.
Hell, let's just take away the internet. Without it, we wouldn't have the key to decrypt the content stream. It would solve the world's piracy problems and we'll all be able to sleep at night! - Zzone, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1why is firekracker getting dugg down? Your going to tell me with a straight face you plan on using this ripper to back up your movies? If you want to watch it you should pay you cheap *****.
- firekrakcer, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Mr. Flaut I think you have mistaken me for a pro DRM digg user (is there such a thing?). I just wanted to call BS on that first comment you made saying "if I wanna back-up media that *I* own, I will". You know, I know and everybody else knows that we (you, myself, and most of us) are going to copy at least one HD-DVD that we don't own once we can. For example a movie we have been looking for that a friend brings over.
While I agree wholeheartedly that we should be able to backup something we have bought or put it into other formats, to deny I will copy something that is not in my collection, well somebody would need to call BS on me too. - Scheissen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2^ Well duh. They are your friends, right?
- m2bord, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17the problem is that you have dinosaurs in the distribution channels still trying to eek out a living by coercing paying consumers into buying multiple copies of the same piece of media. their dream was for you to purchase a cd for your home, one for your car, and downloads for your portable music device. the problem is the market.
one thing that the internet has been very good at is killing off the middleman and that's what's happening here. these industries need to quit trying to protect their failed distribution channels and start looking ahead at the next point that they can intersect technology and make themselves relevant again. otherwise...they are going to be joining the dinosaurs.- trer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Unfortunately, you make too much sense to be taken seriously. The dinosaurs will keep on with their failed distribution cycles.
- actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1"their dream was for you to purchase a cd for your home, one for your car, and downloads for your portable music device."
No, their dream was to prevent piracy. Unfortunately, the honest consumer took a hit for it.
- crapatastic, on 10/12/2007, -8/+7@yegger
"09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 BD"
Well apart from the fact your trolling at least get the code right:
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Oh yeah, and welcome to my block list, brat.- Andytom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3If I remember correctly the actual code is "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 8x xx" where x is 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,a,b,c,d,e,f depending on the disc, factory or studio.
- Andytom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3If I remember correctly the actual code is "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 8x xx" where x is 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,a,b,c,d,e,f depending on the disc, factory or studio.
- Beakerz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16AACS = broken
Doom9 = Loved by all- actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1many != all
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"AACS, meet DeCSS. DeCSS, meet your latest imitator."
Where's Emmanuel Goldstein on this issue? 2600 should kick big media's ass yet again!- dracflamloc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Uh, isnt it more like AACS meet CSS, CSS meet your latest imitator?
How exactly does AACS imitate DeCSS? Should be 'Some Certain Integer, meet DeCSS.'
- dracflamloc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Uh, isnt it more like AACS meet CSS, CSS meet your latest imitator?
- Bleachers7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16DRM is dead. It was dead before it was invented. People will create these DRM methods and other people will crack them. This will never end.
- darkstar949, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Well, they do say that anything that is digitally encrypted will be broken (eventually) and computer that is connected to the internet can be cracked (eventually). Crackers like a challenge and the AACS just went and made a nice little challenge for them - and seemed to have forgotten that even at the most fundamental level the key has to be loaded into memory somewhere before the decryption of the disk can begin for playback.
- rhyss, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Oi vey, here we go again.
Oh well, stick it to the man...woohoo...buy my bumper stickers:
http://www.zazzle.com/powerprogrammer/product/128182668970288760 - maximusGeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"it's now 2007, and the writing is on the wall: DRM is a failed idea, and a waste of time and money" Great line
- Sendss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3When internet2 hits then they won't have to worry about this as much.
They will be able to search for the key and block access to every site that has it.
Of course I'm sure people will get around it but you get my point. - MisterFlaut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7AACS vs. DeCSS
Let's get readyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to rumblllllllllllllllllllllllle.
Oh whoops, that's copyrighted too.
Good thing I really don't give two ***** about copyright law :) - NSMike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Ok, let's extend the rock-throwing metaphor.
First, let's define our house. Let's say it's got BIG windows on every side, but it's got a 50 foot wall around it 100 yards out on every side.
Next, let's define our troublemakers. These are guys who approached the wall and figured out how to climb over it. They can now take their rocks, get in range, and break the windows.
And finally, the consumers. These are the people who approach the wall and look at the 50 feet and know that they can't make it over that wall without a lot of practice.
Now, take one of the troublemakers. He tells the consumers that he needs the rock to break the windows. A lot of consumers will say, "But I don't want to break the windows. If I follow the rules, they'll let me into the house anyway. Sure, it'll be on their own terms, but at least I won't have broken the windows."
Some consumers will say, "I don't want to break the windows, but I already tried to get in and they won't let me. So I guess I have to break the windows. But I can't get over this wall."
Some consumers will say, "I want to break those windows, but I can't figure out how to get over this wall!"
The first group of consumers will forget about the rock, drop it on the ground and leave. The second and third groups of consumers will have the rock, but not be able to do anything with it. The troublemakers will tell them just to throw it at the house, and it sounds so simple to them, but really they'll be lucky to get the rock over the wall, let alone the extra 100 yards to the house. What they really need is one of the troublemakers to drop a rope and help the people over the wall in order for them to effectively get to the house. Once the rope is there, the wall is useless. Then the guy will call the cops, the cops will come and cut the rope down, and in response the owner of the house builds the wall higher and farther out. But the troublemakers come back, figure out how to get over the wall again, and drop another rope.
Now, obviously the major flaw with this metaphor is the comparison to vandals. After all, those people who want to break the windows because they weren't let in aren't really doing anything as wrong as breaking windows. They're the ones who want to play their movies on a Linux box, or on their iPod, or in some other way that would require decryption that was not approved by AACS but should be entirely legal under fair use.
Those people who want to break the windows to get something for free are probably the smallest group and have been pirating since the days of VHS, Video Disc, and even the Commodore 64.
And the first group of people, the regular consumers who just want to watch a movie and don't care about the rest, most of them wouldn't even consider doing anything like piracy or place-shifting in the first place.
These guys have really got their heads on backward. - AngelicRaver, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I love how people who run these groups or corporations simply brush us off like we are nothing. Our revolt isn't over yet keep that in mind AACS
- rhyss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's time for a boycot.
http://www.digg.com/political_opinion/BOYCOTT_BOYCOTT_BOYCOTT - kefler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Begun, the 32-character hexadecimal war has.
- keithburgun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I want to point out a similarity between 2 popular Digg stores - Mike Gravel and this "Revolt". It's that "try-to-keep-it-under-wraps" thing that really makes things explode - for example when we heard that CNN or whoever wasn't going to let gravel speak at the next debate in June, there was a huge explosion demanding it. Right now they don't want to address Gravel because he's somewhat under-the-radar in the MSM. But once he is a bit bigger, they'll try to squelch him, and then we'll rise. I'm excited.
- F1R3DUP, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The AACS need to realize that it is too late now. The damage is already done. Right now, i bet some hacker is coding some software that will automatically rip an HD-DVD using the secret code that was leaked. Once that software hits the net it's game over.
Am I wrong? - RedHerringHack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4They lost before they even started fighting.
- GrumpyFan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2When will AACS, RIAA, MPAA and all the other big media companies understand that software locks/keys/schemes don't work. They're like a big target or dare to the would-be hackers that says "give it your best shot". I'm not saying that they shouldn't try to protect their content, just stop trying to lock it down using some newly developed scheme, it's a waste of time and money.
- cylon99, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2I for one welcome our new AACS overlords.
- kefler, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2In soviet russia.. .... DRM is good?
- Thorox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@kefler
Dugg for relevant Star Wars reference!
When you have children in your house, and have to buy the same movies OVER and OVER due to misuse, abuse, and broken media... you WILL hate DRM. I personally like to make a copy to USE and store the original, case and media, in a safe place so that I will have it to cherish over the decades... as it was meant to be. - Bluntman4000, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0DOES THIS SPELL THE END TO HD-DVDS!??? "hear.... the answer only on Fox Noise!"
Cant wait for the story to air! lol - Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Haha, bring it on! OK, what's the betting odds for the internet community going to prevail in this war? :-p
- cherrick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hold on a minute. If the decryption key itself is a circumvention device, then all legitimate players are circumvention devices, all retailers are selling circumvention devices, and the AACS LA is creating circumvention devices. That's an awfully nice hold he just dug himself into.
- sh1rkan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Buy a T-Shirt online - with a number, which came to my attention is listed on google atm 1.000.000 times and rising.
Soon new images!
EU version http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=246410
US version http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=114635
Free teh Numbers! - badken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Dear AACS LA,
You are fighting YOUR CUSTOMERS.
Get a ***** clue.
Sincerely,
A Disgruntled Customer - WozNZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The ONLY thing the AACS will understand is their bottom line. It is time for everyone to take the fight to them in the shops.
People should NOT MAKE ANY PURCHASE of a DRMed product. Do not purchase HD related disks until AACS is removed or broken so it does not matter, refuse to purchase music CDs that have DRM. EMI appear to have learnt, make the rest learn through their pockets. A route they CANT use the law to fight.
To all the MORON companies. Sell products people want to buy, not products you want to sell. - Vtorch, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Digg is going to go down because of high cost legal fees thanks to it's stupid users. Users such as Digg can say that they won the battle, but for the whole war......they won't be able to afford it.
- jordan314, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"The more coveted that secret is, the worse it gets."
Why the heck isn't the coke recipe out on the net yet?- Riffraffs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's not that coveted, and they sell a reasonable product for a reasonable price.
- kethraal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You know... the AACS group really missed out on one of the lessons of the XBox-cracking saga. There was an excellent talk given at Google some months ago by one of the leads of the XBox-Linux project. He presented a very important lesson (I'm paraphrasing): "Don't try and build one security system to fight off all attackers, because if you do, they'll all work together to crack it". And that's exactly what's happening here. The AACS group is trying to fight the home users making personal rips, the commercial cloning software makers (WinDVDCopy, etc.), the hardcore cracking groups (who crack any protection, just to see if they can, like ECHO, etc), and the commercial pirates (who want to line the streets of China with your latest film.) And guess what AACS-LA! Guess what happened! Yep -- they all unite to crack the same system.
So what should they have done? Well they should, first and foremost, forget about the last two groups (bootleg-rings and the "we crack to know we can" people.) They'll crack _anything_ you give them. It's a lost cause anyways, so don't spend any more money. The first group, they should realize, ISN'T A THREAT. That's right -- people making rips for their iPod aren't a threat. Now I don't live in a utopia where people would magically not want content for their iPod, they will -- but that's where the stores like iTunes come in. They can supply movies for people's iPods, and for their computers (the latter will soon be feasible, thanks to the rise of FiOS and the like). If you make the process of downloading DRM'd movies (and transferring them) as seemless as possible (no device limits, allow a generous number of PC authorizations, etc.), they'll opt for that -- they'll pay the extra $10 convenience to not have to mess with encoding settings, ripping software etc. With the iPod and computer-ripping markets crippled (though the PC market to a much smaller extent, due to HTPCs, etc), the commercial software makers have a reduced market. With a reduced market, they can't afford to invest the $$$ that they are in their private cracking efforts. Without the money, their threat is considerably reduced. As an added bonus (if you're a bit lucky), the commercial pirates (the bootleg-rings, etc.) will be limited by a lack of high-volume ripping/processing software. That leaves the "because we can" groups -- who, although they publish their knowledge from time to time, are willing to do so in a responsible way, given that they are not treated like pirates (remember MS's "don't talk to terrorists" strategy?) When you use one big security system, the opposition becomes one big open-source community. When you use multiple security systems, you break the opposition into smaller groups who, due to the economics of the split, have a lot less motivation to work together. That, coupled with provisions for the home user's personal use (and let's be honest, they do have a case, legally) will split the groups as much as possible (since most of the iPod-ripping market and some of the PC-ripping market will evaporate), leaving you with a much smaller, weaker adversary, and a much happier consumer base (and thus a more profitable consumer base).
And that, my good AA friends (AACSLA, MPAA, and RIAA) is how to work together to do responsible DRM, and do it well and profitably. Now stop f*cking with your users and do it. - benlindelof, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The RIAA is joining the 21st century kicking and screaming.
It's getting old. RIAA = BRAT - actionjackson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3possession of information is not tantamount to commission of a criminal act or intent to commit a criminal act! why don't these assholes focus more on making products that are actually worth paying for, rather than persecuting the population for having knowledge?
- smokatronic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yes, giving up the security efforts would be best. We'll all still go to the movies, we'll all still buy a cd if we like it. We'll all still rent movies as well, even if it is just to burn it. Nobody was going to rent the same movie twice anyway. When I buy a movie, it's because it's a very good movie and the DVD box is nice for my collection. My kids rub and grind the strangest things on DVDs and games and I have ended up having to purchase duplicate copies because I couldn't burn a copy for use.
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