What is Digg?242 Comments
- Stavrosian, on 06/03/2008, -10/+93Well if it takes too many years, people will be laughing at the idea of physical media anyway.
- Topher06, on 06/02/2008, -9/+75I expect by this holiday season to see a slew of sub $200 Blu-ray players. But its not the price of the players that is holding Blu-ray back, its Hollywood and their insistance on selling Blu-ray movies for over $30 when DVD's are in the $15 - $20 range. I don't buy that Blu-ray movies are more costly to create, I got the first season of Weeds for $19.99 and it is one of the best Blu-ray experiences I have had yet (one of the best produced Blu-ray's out there).
But ultimately, Blu-ray is a premium format, I don't expect a warehouse worker to have the 52" HDTV and 7.1 channel surround system to go with a Blu-ray player. Once you can get a TV, premium surround system, and Blu-ray that costs $500 in total, it will become the domninant format of choice. - ahhell, on 06/03/2008, -20/+57***** blu-ray and the way over priced movies.
- jman583, on 06/03/2008, -10/+46If HD-DVD won, I probably would have bought a HD-DVD player this summer and not a year or two from now like with Blu-ray.
Just saying. - Kyrgizion, on 06/03/2008, -13/+43I made a conscious choice to avoid both HD-DVD and Blu-ray as the plague. This is a transient format; it does not have and will never have the staying power of VHS or DVD. That is because when they were introduced, there was a true need for bigger & better. Technology and innovation were necessary to keep the public interested. The HD formats followed the DVD market too soon.
However, with the difference between a DVD player + 720i TV and a Blu-ray player + full HDTV being marginal when seated ~3 meters from the screen, people simply do not perceive a "need" to upgrade what they have - yet.
And with prices like these, this won't change anytime soon.
Besides, Sony has repeatedly shown that it has not learned from previous mistakes and will keep on making them. I will not be suckered into buying their flawed marketing strategy and physically inferior dump products. - The_Wallbanger, on 06/03/2008, -0/+24When current-gen videogames began selling for $60 rather than the $50 industry standard, I was told this would be a temporary price hike to re-coop losses caused by more sophisticated programming costs. It's now 3 years after the Xbox 360 came out and prices have not come down.
The movie studios are doing the same thing with Blu-ray. They are using the new technology as an excuse to raise prices and usher in the new status quo. I'm not buying it. This industry is disfunctional if it assumes the best way to combat piracy is to jack up the price of a movie. - cslawren, on 06/03/2008, -4/+25Yes, the price will come down over time, but when it comes down to it, Blu-Ray is too expensive for adopting at this point for most people. Plus I don't want to drop $40 or whatever it is for a movie when I can get a good quality DVD for $15. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this.
- warispeace21, on 06/03/2008, -2/+22Cheaper players and no region encoding. I'm a little sad HD-DVD lost.
- sarhiley, on 06/03/2008, -5/+24I must have missed the part where blu-ray "stomped" HD-DVD. I'd hardly call an extended format war that fragmented the market and put off adoption for years (or forever) a stomping.
- BevansDesign, on 06/03/2008, -6/+24I am right now. The format that will kill DVD will be digital downloads, not Blu-Ray. The media companies are just trying to sell us one more format before that happens.
In 5 years, we'll look back on the Blu-Ray disc as an interesting novelty, like we look at minidiscs now. The only problem is making digital downloads more accessible to people who don't know how to use toasters, and getting better quality.
Of course, you can bet that they're going to nickel and dime you on special features by selling them separately. - SpikeyFreak, on 06/03/2008, -1/+18The difference between DVD and VHS is gargantuan. Ever had to rewind a DVD? Ever skipped to the 3rd chapter of a VHS instantly? How many DVDs can you store in the same place as one VHS? How many VHS tapes have bonus features?
The deciding factor isn't going to be image quality. There aren't enough people out there with HDTVs that think the difference in quality is worth paying 5 times as much for a player and twice as much for the movies. - ayeroxor, on 06/03/2008, -5/+21And consider this: A coworker of mine who previously worked at best buy has pointed out that if you want a network-upgradeable player (as opposed to requiring update discs) the cheapest one available is the PS3, or you can get a stand-alone updateable player you can pay almost $200 more than the ps3.
All this money for barely any visible increase? Come on. It's not like it was when we went from VHS to DVD. - inactive, on 06/03/2008, -8/+22The same thing happened when DVDs entered the market,so this is rubbish the prices will reduce.
- nurall, on 06/03/2008, -2/+15i still can't get broadband.
- SuperVepr308, on 06/03/2008, -2/+15You are correct. There is no imminent need and most people are just passing. DVD still does the job too well to warrant an upgrade for the vast majority of folks.
- shakin, on 06/03/2008, -2/+15Everything you say is correct. Over the past few decades the wallets of middle-income people and families has become a battleground where corporations duel it out to get every last cent consumers have. $100+ cable TV bills, cell phones for every member of the family, $500/month car lease payments, etc. These things are killing families and yet every industry is trying to find ways to squeeze more money out of these people.
Cell phone companies are doing it by making upgrading a $200+ cell phone an annual activity and the movie industry is doing it by putting a $10 premium on Blu-Ray movies over DVDs.
These are the safe paths to higher profits. They won't revolutionize their respective industries, but since everyone is playing by the same rules they can each safely grow their profit bubbles. If they did want to shake up the market they'd be charging $10 less for Blu-Ray movies. If they gave the market a $100 player and $10 movies the swing would be fantastic... Blu-Ray would dominate really quickly and even on-demand movies from cable and satellite companies would have a hard time keeping up. It's a risk, though, because it changes the rules. CEOs are in the business of increasing profits to match their forecasts, not taking risks or changing the rules. - krische, on 06/03/2008, -2/+15Sorry to hear you still have your HD-DVD player.
- MrFurious2k, on 06/03/2008, -6/+18Part of the problem is that the decision wasn't really made by the buyers, but by the studios. They thought that if they abandoned HD DVD they could spur on the adoption of HD media. While they may have been correct in identifying that the format war was causing confusion, they miscalculated how important a stable platform and price was to the success of their chosen format.
For example:
BD still hasn't unified its platform based on profiles (you'll STILL find profile 1.0, 1.1, and emerging 2.0 players).
BD doesn't have HD DVD to produce downward price pressure on media and players
BD players haven't yet produced a player that upconverts your existing DVD movies to the same quality as some of the competing equipment
BD players still "glitch" and have issues that have been largely resolved in the matured SD DVD format
BD players are still dealing with sound format standardization
BD players show no major convenience benefit over DVD
BD players are fighting to show a noticeable improvement for people running lower quality displays
BD DRM is more obtrusive than any other format to date
It's not any one thing that's a deal breaker, but when you look at price it gets harder for someone to pull the trigger. On top of that, they stopped doing all the "buy on, get one" sales that were common when they were fighting HD DVD. Frankly, Sony hasn't shown themselves to understand that they're not just fighting HD DVD (or were fighting) but all the other formats. Unfortunately for them, they're behind the eightball when it comes to just ordinary conveniences. Most people have gotten used to using their DVDs in their laptops, portable players, and in cars. BD removes those conveniences for a higher price and arguably indistinguishable picture/audio (for many mobile systems).
In a nutshell, Sony had best get working on reducing the price because at this point, they may have another Super Audio CD on their hands. - gambl0r, on 06/03/2008, -4/+16Good thing 'the market' chose the format that is region coded, currently non-upgradable for a large number of users, and won't come down to a reasonable price for another year or two. If only there were another competing format that didn't have any of those problems, yet provided the same audio and video quality as Blu Ray... hmmmmmmmmmmm...
- laserdog, on 06/03/2008, -2/+13You don't need to rewind DVDs, that's why nobody cares about Blu-Ray.
They also take up the exact same amount of space as a DVD.
They are in no way convenient, in fact they are the opposite, as they require a number of people to buy new TVs.
And, of course, once you upgrade you TV to High Def, you're then faced with having to upgrade your cable or satellite subscription to match...
It's no wonder consumers are staying away. - Duositex, on 06/03/2008, -5/+16This is utter tripe. Pure geek-speak nonsense. The average person WILL NOT have the means to download and view movies on their television any time soon, nor will they want to. Physically owning media give you irreplaceable rights over the media. If you let them take that away from us, you give them the right to put even further restrictions on how it's used.
- producerism, on 06/03/2008, -4/+15Demolition Man hasn't even come out yet in HD - so I'm confused as to why anyone would want a Blu-ray player at all? For developers?
- Kyrgizion, on 06/03/2008, -0/+11No, it could not. DVD offered improvements both in terms of image quality, ease of use, storage and lots of extra usability. The only "extras" HD formats offer are better image quality and stringent DRM (which is hardly an asset).
- luckyguy2000, on 06/03/2008, -0/+9you cant rip and copy blurays as easy as dvds thats why it wont win vs. dvd anytime soon. forbidden truth.
- i4ybrid, on 06/03/2008, -3/+12Did everyone forget how unpopular DVDs were? Didn't they start at the $30 range too? When the price of blu-ray players drop to probably $150, the buying will really begin. I think the magic price for DVDs was like $100 players, right? The price of DVD movies soon followed as manufacturing costs decreased. That's how it works....and that's very likely how it will work for BD.
- blatantninja, on 06/03/2008, -8/+17Let's see - Sony bribed enough studios to abandon HD-DVD because Blu-Ray was 'superior' despite them both putting out the same quality image. HD-DVD players were just dropping under $100. Lots of people cheered the death of HD-DVD since it ended the format war. And now, we're stuck with only Blu-Ray with players at over $399, discs over $25 or $30 (and cost more for the manufacturer to produce). So who's still happy about the death of HD-DVD?
- uberkling, on 06/03/2008, -4/+12"The Walt Disney Co. is set to rerelease the 1959 animated feature "Sleeping Beauty" in October in Blu-ray with chat, trivia and video-messaging functions..."
Bob42> im watchin sleeping beauty
Freddy83> snow white ***** all over sleeping beauty
Bob42> yo mamma. sleeping beauty is PIMP.
*Bob42 is afk
... Yup... Sod msn, email, IRC, yahoo chat, xbox live, steam, voip or usenet... Next time I feel some deep intrinsic need to use the net as a communication medium, in goes the Sleeping Beauty disc. - TypeEE, on 06/03/2008, -1/+9I concur, I don't mind a $80 player, but $300? I will skip.
- rebotfc, on 06/03/2008, -0/+8Yeah but you can get Cliffhanger
- krische, on 06/03/2008, -0/+7I would suggest the Planet Earth BBC special on Blu-ray. Simple Amazing.
- hexydes, on 06/03/2008, -0/+7I don't understand how this simple point is being lost on so many Digg readers.
People had HUGE complaints with VHS. The quality actually DEGRADED over time and viewings. To watch it again, you had to sit and rewind it for ten minutes. VHS players would break all the time because of all the moving parts. When returning a rental you HAD to rewind it or get charged. They were bulky to carry around. The tape would get stuck in the player and ruin the tape. And unlike DVD to Blu-Ray, the difference in quality between VHS and DVD was HUGE, even on the TVs you already owned.
What advantage does Blu-Ray have over DVD? It looks marginally better than an upscaled DVD if you buy a 1080p HDTV. That's it. The reason DVD took off so quickly is because people were (understandably) pissed off over the many inherent problems with VHS. DVD solved almost every single one of those problems overnight, and people were ecstatic. Blu-Ray does not solve one single problem with DVD, and the only benefit it brings is a slightly better image quality, to those who can perceive it (which looking at statistics, is NOT a big selling point for Blu-Ray).
Sony (the primary backer of Blu-Ray, and if you disagree with that, you're completely biased) is doing what they always do. They are trying to control a format with an iron-fist, in the hopes of squeezing as much money out of consumers as possible, and at the same time pinning the industry to the wall by the balls. The problem is, the product they are selling is not something that people are clamoring for with the same fervor that they did with DVD a decade ago. - krische, on 06/03/2008, -4/+11I see someone has yet to watch Planet Earth on a 1080p television. Trust me, watch it, then make your decision.
- norman619, on 06/03/2008, -1/+8Ah yes so you are expecting average broadband speeds to be in the 40 Mbps range in the near future? Dude, we will not see the kind of bandwidth needed to make downloading HD content worth while for a VERY long time mainly because the companies are not upgrading their networks as they need to. The format that will kill blue ray is actually HVD. Sony knows this which is why they are working on their own version of it but so far is sucks ass compared to the versions already in use by the studios and available to people with the money for one of the units. Bluray and HD-DVD are just stop gap formats. The first consumer unit came to market 2 or 3 years ago. If you don't know what HVD is here are a few links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile ...
http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/magazineFeatur ...
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hvd.htm
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/590/590428p1.html
http://news.cnet.com/Group-aims-to-drastically-up- ... - cyssero, on 04/18/2009, -0/+7BevansDesign, I don't think you can dismiss Blu-ray (or any physical media format for that matter) as easily as you have. Many parts of the world do not have the broadband infrastructure to support streaming or even downloading high-definition content. In Australia for example, a country where spending is high, particularly on merchandise such as Blu-ray players - we cannot support a widespread digital download service.
Some parts of the country enjoy 20Mbit speeds where as some can only get dial-up. But everyone has access to Blu-ray movies and Blu-ray players. Our quotas (download limits) are so poor that the majority of service plans do not even allow for 1/3rd of a Blu-ray movie to be downloaded. The price for excess data is huge (biggest telco is $0.15 per MB, or $150/GB). Given a Blu-ray movie is at least 24GB, multiply $150x24. Surely, we wouldn't be downloading Blu-ray sized files, but anything above a few GB and you understand why Blu-ray will be the dominant format for the next decade at least. - hexydes, on 06/03/2008, -0/+6I think it was something more like ten years for DVD to fully supplant VHS, but practically more like eight years (minus the first year of DVD not really releasing anything, and the last year for VHS not really releasing anything). The uptake was very quick once DVD was released though. After a year or so of being out, the player prices started falling quickly, movie titles were rapidly released, and prices fell across the board.
I'm just not seeing that with Blu-Ray. It's been out for almost three years, and consumer adoption has been very slow. The prices of players have not dropped nearly as fast as DVD did (and even slower with HD-DVD gone), and Blu-Ray disc prices have been at a virtual stand-still (again, especially with HD-DVD gone).
At the end of the day, the majority of consumers are just happy enough with DVD. Upscaling players (with DivX/XviD support, to boot) can be had for under $40. DVD discs are as cheap as $5 for major titles. Does an upscaled DVD look equal to an HD disc to the average Digg reader? Probably not. But how about for the other 99% of the population? So far, market trends have pointed towards "Yes".
Sony and the Blu-Ray consortium had better decide what they want to do quickly. Unless their action includes chopping the price of Blu-Ray players in half this Christmas, and dropping the price of titles by 25-33% across the board...I wouldn't be surprised if Blu-Ray followed HD-DVD by 2010. There's just too many other options available now that are cheaper, more convenient, and "good enough" in quality for Sony and Blu-Ray to play the game they're trying to play with consumers. - samoan27, on 06/03/2008, -0/+6One of Miles Laws of economic viability is that it will take approximately 12 years for a new technology to replace an existing one (think how long CD players were out before cassettes were gone, DVD players were out before tapes dissapeared, etc). IF Blueray doesn't get passed up by some far superior technology, it will still be another 10 years before it takes the place of DVDs. (Keep in mind this holds constant independent of price drops, price drops will only affect it's ability to survive the necessary time)
- johnsweber, on 06/03/2008, -3/+9Hasn't that time already passed? You could even consider bluray MORE expensive now than it was a year ago as they don't do the free 5+ movies deal anymore when HD DVD was around. And HD DVD ~did~ have sub 200 dollar players WITH free movies. I know HD DVD was trying to catch up, but come on, that price gap is ridiculous for such a marginal difference in technology.
- flair1, on 06/03/2008, -4/+10When Redbox rents Blu-Ray movies for $1 a night, I will buy a Blu-Ray player.
- Shadow120, on 06/03/2008, -1/+7You shouldn't be "*****" it, you should be watching it. No-wonder it sucks.. You've been doing it wrong.
- krische, on 06/03/2008, -1/+7Actually, I think Blu-ray could compete with digital downloads. Once it gets to the prices of DVDs today, it would be hard to find download movies that match the quality of a Blu-ray. I mean today we are just getting to the point where standard definition downloads are becoming common. I think it will be quite some time before HD downloads appear.
- aladrin, on 06/03/2008, -2/+8Unless they drop the DRM on digital downloads, or provide a method to guarantee you can't lose it, digital downloads are not going to replace DVDs.
Scenario: Housefire. Your computer and DVD collection are both destroyed. You put in a claim to the insurance company for your DVDs and downloaded iTunes movies. I -know- they'll reimburse for the DVDs. WIll they cover the iTunes stuff? Will iTunes let you re-download it? If iTunes dies in 5 years, can you still recover those movies?
With the DVD, I can make a backup and store it away from my house, guaranteeing that even losing my collection won't rob me of the movies themselves. I can't do that with digital downloads that have DRM.
In a sense you are already correct, though... Digital downloads -are- replacing DVDs... It's just not the legal downloads that are doing it. - tattertech, on 06/03/2008, -5/+11Actually the main problem for me is I have no interest in rebuying my 350ish DVDs in BluRay.
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -7/+13And I remember the days in which DVD players cose $280... Welcome to the business world, where efficiency is the key to a lower price, and efficiency will improve with time.
- jaxcs, on 06/03/2008, -1/+7When people say it's overpriced, it's not strictly a technical argument. It's overpriced in comparison to something. The difference between VHS and DVD is major, even on low priced TVs, the difference between DVD and BR is major only on high end equipment. BR is a good format but it requires not only an expensive set but an expensive player and discs. Can't be justified by me right now.
- funktimus, on 06/03/2008, -0/+5Aladrin, Microsoft already offers something similar with Xbox live, at least for the games you download. The games are tied to your subscription name, so if your HD gets wiped clean or maybe if you upgrade, you can re-download free of charge.
In any case, not really a fan of digital downloads anymore. Have lost my music collection already twice in this decade of downloading. Redownloading/Reripping music takes long enough. I'd never find the time to do it with video content. - elvenseven, on 06/03/2008, -0/+5I hope they'd get rid of the ***** broadband first.
- moskrin, on 06/03/2008, -2/+7I've never noticed how much the bluray discs cost... doesn't seem to matter, since I know what the players cost and won't shell out that much for one. I do have an HDTV, though don't have a home theater obsession.
- grgt1994, on 06/03/2008, -0/+5Krische, I don't think there was any estimation of the magnitude in that difference proffered. But since you raise the issue . . .
VHS, for those who forget, delivered a crappy, grainy, wow and fluttery, color smeared 480i. Even SVHS sucked. DVD brought us a rock solid 480p. Upconverting DVD players do a very nice job on large HD output. So yes, the jump from VHS was fantastically bigger than the "jump" to HD media. IMHO. - FujiwaraTofu, on 06/03/2008, -0/+5I don't really think it's comparable. A PS3 plays games AND movies, as well as having a bunch of other features. An iPhone is a personal device which also has a bunch of features. A Blu-Ray player only plays movies--it doesn't have multiple functions. And you also don't have to buy a HDTV to have either a PS3 or iPhone.
- TypeEE, on 06/03/2008, -3/+8Another thing is that a HD TV is a prerequisite
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