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218 Comments
- gravitywell, on 10/12/2007, -3/+83Nice, apparently Canada speaks "American" now.
- idonthack, on 10/12/2007, -4/+82The part about the electronically limited printer drums is true. There's a fuse in most of them that burns out after a specified number of pages. You can take it out and replace it (or just wrap it in foil) and your cartridge will continue working. IIRC there was even a lawsuit about it but they continue doing it anyways. Google it if you want to know more.
- wholegrain, on 10/12/2007, -2/+73We have two HP Laserjets (bought 1.5 years ago) that we have load-balanced via a print server. Usually the page counts on them are within 100 pages of each other. The fuser on one went out a couple months ago (after probably 150k pages), so we called HP tech support to get a replacement. No sooner had I hung up the phone than the other printer stopped printing with the same problem. So much for having a backup.
- ShooterMcGavin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+68I work for HP and most of this stuff is accurate.
Amazingly, my job has NOT been moved to India or Costa Rica.
... Yet... - taylorhayward, on 10/12/2007, -2/+64Can anyone verify that these are accurate?
Sweet info. - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+56Yep. If you want a good laser printer these days you need to find a good used early-to-mid-90s HP, from back when they made decent printers. I dunno what the hell happened to HP, they used to be the no brainer choice for LJs.. now they're just another Lexmark.
- klawz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+48What, you think you special don't you? Check their sales figures, seems most people (except you) buy them.
- drtyfrnk, on 10/12/2007, -3/+45I can confirm all of that stuff, I used to work for an outsourced call center here in canada working with HP Printers and desktop computers and it's all true.
- mikecurry, on 10/12/2007, -3/+40What a comment that was EH?! "Canada at least speaks a variant of American."
I am still laughing...
- A Canadian. - DrStephanHeimer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+37I worked as a tech for HP in the past here is my take on things
1: Many HP Printers, like their laser printers, have a built-in page-count after which they won't work. This resides in the a transpart sometimes called image or drum kit. Rather than get the printer fixed, it's often cheaper to buy a new printer, OR you can do a NV ram reset. It resets everything in the printer, including all the page counts, but it's not without risks.
NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE: some (not all) HP laser printers have a maintenance cycle which requires the printer be serviced at a set page count. This is true of many high end printers and copiers (not just hp’s) a few hundred dollars in maintenance every couple of years will keep your very expensive (think $10,000 +) printing investment running.
2: To get past the voice prompt system, repeatedly say "Agent." It will take two or three repetitions, but it will get you to a human.
COMPLETELY TRUE
3: If a set of cartridges cost more than the printer, don't buy the printer. It's considered a "throwaway" printer. HP service techs are told to spend no more than 30 minutes working on these because at that point, you are costing HP money.
NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE: sometime a “throwaway” printer works really well as long as you don’t abuse it. HP techs ARE NOT given a time limit on these printers because as soon as someone calls in on one of these HP has lost money!
HP did however OMIT the support telephone number in the documentation for these printers, so if someone wanted to call in they could not do so right away and would have to hunt for the number.
4: HP cartridges have a warranty separate from their printer. The printer might be out of warranty, but the cartridges might not be. Cartridge goes plooey, call in.
COMPLETELY TRUE
5: Any HP printer that has been on the market for 6 months has its tech support outsourced. This means you might wind up talking to India, Canada or Costa Rica. Of the three, Canada at least speaks a variant of American.
NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE: high end product is taken care of by HP first and then outsourced. Consumer gear however gets outsourced right away
FYI: Canadians speak ENGLISH not a variant of American
6: If you have been told that you will receive a part by a certain date, follow up immediately. HP Parts Store was recently moved to Central America. HP Parts Store isn't talking to HP Tech Support because the Tech Support CSR can see what is in the HP PS inventory and knows when they're *****. Every other part of HP hates HP Parts Store because of lost inventory, improper procedures, missed shipments, etc.
TOTAL BS: HP parts shipments are on par with anyone else aka some mistakes happen
7: Using non-HP cartridges in your printer will void your warranty, and sometimes makes stuff blow up real good. The tech support will hang up on you if it is proven that the damage was caused by non-HP cartridges.
TOTAL BS: the warranty on the printer is still valid unless it was damaged by the non hp cartridges, if you put in hp brand cartridges and your printer works everything is fine you warranty is ok. Epson I believe got sued for this a while back
8: Just because the sales people say that your HP printer can use 120lbs paper doesn't mean it actually can. You want the straight dope on a printer? Call up HP tech support or check the website.
NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE: on any mid range – decent quality printer you should be able to run the occasional sheet of 120lbs paper through it with no issues. If you insist on doing this constantly you are going to wear the motor down and kill the printer. Kinda like using a Honda Fit to haul a trailer.
9: If your printer is just out of warranty and you have a problem with it, call tech support anyway. You will first likely be directed to a "warranty agent." Tell them firmly that you have an "extended warranty" and they will forward you on to tech support under "customer claims warranty." The Tech Agent MUST give you support as per HP policy.
NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE: if you are out of warranty you will likely be able to get some help over the phone, however if your product requires servicing you will have to provide a Proof of Purchase.
10: Don't yell at the Tech Support CSRs. Most of them make just over minimum wage and just want to get the call over. If you have a problem, firmly request a supervisor.
NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE: Take a good look at what your problem is, most of the time people are just pissed off at HP’s ***** software or are expecting photolab quality out of a $30 printer (using cheap paper too). If you’re civil and willing to work with the tech you will likely get a good solution.
Sometimes though techs aren’t helpful or you can’t get a fair solution. In this case ask for a supervisor
11: If you threaten a lawsuit, HP CSRs are told to stop the call immediately and hang up.
NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE: HP techs are to instruct the customer to contact the HP legal division and that they cannot continue or comment on the situation.
12: Many HP CSRs are cross-trained into other departments. It doesn't hurt to ask if they know about the product or problem if you get misrouted.
TRUE - snurfle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+39They did... they're called "Saturns".
- GravyTrain6, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36Unfotunately, I'm sure that the position would move to Costa Rica....not the person currently filling that position.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32hold down the cancel button while you turn it on.
- phunlee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+28I'd work in Costa Rica...
- dougbell, on 10/12/2007, -5/+31"1: Many HP Printers, like their laser printers, have a built-in page-count after which they won't work."
I call ***** on this one. That would be like GM making a car that stops working after 80K miles.... Oh, wait..... *****. - merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27Konika printers have a similar mechanism. There's a small chip on the toner cartridge that counts the number of pages that it's printed, and after the counter hits a certain number, like 4000, your printer stops printing 22 pages/min, and drops to about 4 pages/min. The idea is to prevent you from refilling the cartridges. There's a place in china that manufactures the chips, so you can just swap 'em out if you want to refill.
Most printer companies are doing this sort of things these days. - bussche, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22I'm pretty sure he was referring to their cheaper ink jet printers.
- tropicdog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18I can verify #2.
Using this technique right now to resolve a RMA issue. Bypassed the wait on the phone and went straight to an agent. - vuke69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17I wouldn't touch an inkjet (from them or anyone else), but for laser printers, they are arguably the best.
What we use (not that anyone cares):
Standard laser printers: HP 4050/4100/4200
Color Laser printers: Ricoh Aficio CL2000/3500
All in one: Ricoh Aficio 2035/3035
We also tried a few Dell (Lexmark) DM5200N printers once because they were half the price of an equivalent HP, but they were absolute crap, and insanely expensive toner. - Bootes, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20Hmmm, I don't believe any country speaks American. All support must suck.
- jerbaker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16"Last time I checked there was no difference between the way we speak."
Except two things:
1) Canadians have a strange (to Americans) way of pronouncing words with "ou" in them (e.g., about, stout). It's an almost imperceptible "oo" sound instead of "ow", and sometimes even an "ah-oo" sound. For some reason Canadians protest that they do not do this, but it's the number one dead giveaway that someone's a Canadian.
2) The proverbial "eh" - robdiggity, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17what sorts of ideas do you have if you don't post the link?
- nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17I should've switched from HP ...
* when they stopped shipping USB cables with their printers. just deprecate the parallel cable. don't give us NOTHING to hook it up to the computer.
* after the 10th time their driver installation crashed Windows.
* when ink started costing more than printers (probably applies to most printers though)
Add your own! I still haven't switched from HP because they make fairly good, affordable printers. Anyone have any suggestions for my next printer? I think most printer companies just suck ass. And yeah like vuke said, I have had most of these problems with inkjets. Their lasers have been pretty good to me, for the most part (driver issues aside). - Rikkochet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14There are huge differences all across NA, haven't you ever listened for it?
Pacific Northwest? New York? Newfoundland? Alberta? Ontario? Chicago? Midwest? Varying degrees of Southern drawls?
There are huge differences in mannerisms and pronunciation (and choson vocabulary) that affect the way we all communicate. We don't all talk like Friends. - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16#8 applies to all salespeople for anything. Salespeople, especially b2b, will tell you anything you want to hear, as long as you sign off on the deal.
- vuke69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Lexmark rebrands, and they are crapariffic.
- FleshEater, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Anywhere I can find a guide to reset the NV ram?
- zanthrax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13I used to work for a HP Laserjet phonesupport in europe and can confirm all of the technical tips.
But I can't place the 'set pagecount'-thing. b/w LJ's have no drum kit, only some Color LJ's do and I did not support those.
Also, 'ask for a supervisor' gets you nowhere, the agent have more actual product knowledge. If you feel the agent can't help you ask him to go ask a supervisor/collegue for help. Getting the supervisor on the phone can happen if you ask for it often enough but it will take you far more time to get a propper answer.
Check the warranty type of a unit you plan to purchase, most extended warranty are a rip-off but on cheaper units a few bucks can change 1 year pickup (about 2 weeks for repair) into 3 years, next day exchange.
The PNP-driver tip is good for people that have to mess with configuring/installing printers on a daily basis, they are complete bundles of windows drivers. just install on your server and any windows clients can get the propper driver along with all driversettings as configured on the server. when printing directly to IP-address use the Instal Network Printer Wizard tool: http://www.hp.com/go/inpw_sw , makes installing a breeze and also automaticly installs HP's TCP-IP port which is much more efficient then the MS one, even on non-HP printers.
One weird thing I learned at HP that wasn't in TFA: If a HP partnumber ends in CN, it's actually a part made by Canon. About 1/2 the part in Laserjets are.
Still, HP's phone support is one of the best in the business. It's why a HP is more expensive then a Brother. - nick2354, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14are their any side effects?
- mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Judging by the number of down diggs, no.
- jn024, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13canadians talk funny it's a known fact
- vuke69, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13"I like my HP All-in-one, but I hate the company. Their ink prices are so high.
And things like this page counting irk me."
All inkjets are like this, its the razor blade marketing model
"I called for service once and got India . Could NOT understand him and he had no answers. Had to go check everything. Took and hour on the phone to get nowhere.
I reinstalled the software and it worked."
I feel your pain with the Indian tech support. But maybe you should have tried to re-install the software first? - goldcityguy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+131: Many HP Printers, like their laser printers, have a built-in page-count after which they won't work.
2: To get past the voice prompt system, repeatedly say "Agent."
3: If a set of cartridges cost more than the printer, don't buy the printer.
4: HP cartridges have a warranty separate from their printer.
5: Any HP printer that has been on the market for 6 months has its tech support outsourced.
6: If you have been told that you will receive a part by a certain date, follow up immediately.
7: Using non-HP cartridges in your printer will void your warranty, and sometimes makes stuff blow up real good.
8: Just because the sales people say that your HP printer can use 120lbs paper doesn't mean it actually can.
9: If your printer is just out of warranty and you have a problem with it, call tech support anyway.
10: Don't yell at the Tech Support CSRs.
11: If you threaten a lawsuit, HP CSRs are told to stop the call immediately and hang up.
12: Many HP CSRs are cross-trained into other departments.
13. HP's Beta Software website is at: http://www.hp.com/pond/ljbeta/.
14. http://www.hp.com/pond/pnp Point and print = a new hp toy. - jaycliche, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I once heard someone call black citizens in Africa "African Americans".
- Wonderkind, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I like my HP All-in-one, but I hate the company. Their ink prices are so high.
And things like this page counting irk me.
I called for service once and got India . Could NOT understand him and he had no answers. Had to go check everything. Took and hour on the phone to get nowhere.
I reinstalled the software and it worked. - vuke69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Also, regarding HP drivers...
Never, ever, use the mega-glob-O-crap drivers. Just use the plain-jane postscript driver (or PCL if you specifically need PCL support), the smallest download on the page is probably the one you want. The consumer targeted uber-bloat driver packs are ALMOST as bad as Creative Labs drivers, and for those in the know, that's pretty bad. - FRANKeB, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"5: Any HP printer that has been on the market for 6 months has its tech support outsourced. This means you might wind up talking to India, Canada or Costa Rica. Of the three, Canada at least speaks a variant of American."
'American' is an attitude, not a language. - chicagodj, on 10/12/2007, -2/+111: Many HP Printers, like their laser printers, have a built-in page-count after which they won't work.
Almost any laser printer has these built in. There is a limited expected drum life length. At that point the drum needs to be replaced to ensure proper image formation. If you cant afford a new drum every x pages you cant afford the printer. Buy something else. Also if you cant afford a maintenance kit (i.e. image transfer roller, fusing assembly, feed and separation rollers) on the maintenance interval of the printer again you cant afford the printer and should buy something else. And this isn't just HP products this is any printer products. Do some research as to maintenance intervals and drum life expectancy before you just buy whatever printer is on sale.
2: To get past the voice prompt system, repeatedly say "Agent."
This works and personally I think it's a great thing. Tho the voice prompts once you know them are very easy to navigate. Another way to get to talk to a real person quickly is to just swear at the voice recognition system.
3: If a set of cartridges cost more than the printer, don't buy the printer.
This is just common sense. In fact any inkjet printer costing less than $150 is a throwaway printer. If it's past it's year of warranty and you've used it for that year when it breaks be prepared to buy another one.
4: HP cartridges have a warranty separate from their printer.
This is also true.
5: Any HP printer that has been on the market for 6 months has its tech support outsourced.
I dont know about this one. I think it highly depends on the model and popularity of the printer. Again Im sure this is true almost immediately with inkjet printers. No offense but until you're ready to fork over a couple of grand for an inkjet they will continue to pay more attention and put more effort into printers that net them more cash.
6: If you have been told that you will receive a part by a certain date, follow up immediately.
This again is any technology company. I have had good and bad response times with them all.
7: Using non-HP cartridges in your printer will void your warranty, and sometimes makes stuff blow up real good.
This is true to a point. Using non-HP cartridges does NOT immediately void your warranty. However in order to troubleshoot with HP you will need to put a genuine hp cartridge in. They are not allowed to just void your warranty because you choose to use a non-HP cartridge but they can require one to give you warranty help with it. As the article states (but the section headline doesn't) is that IF the non-HP cartridge caused the damage then YES hp is not liable for the repair in warranty. Why would they be? You decided to be a cheap ass and save a few bucks using a generic cartridge (which I have seen cause everything from splitting it's poorly closed seams and dumping all it's toner in the printer to having the poorly reassembled gear parts jam up and completely shred the drive train requiring a 4+ hours of labor cost teardown and reassembly without parts). Fact is the best cartridges for your HP printer are made by HP. Just like the best cartridges for your Lexmark printer are made by Lexmark. If you want to be a cheap ass and use generic cartridges, DONT complain about the failure of such cartridges and make it seem like it should be HPs responsibility to clean up your mess.
8: Just because the sales people say that your HP printer can use 120lbs paper doesn't mean it actually can.
Why do people still believe what sales people say? A salesman lies more than the weatherman. He just wants you to buy his product. If you want it to print on 120lb paper, of course it does. If you want it to make you a latte when you press a button, well damn it always has been able to. So stop listening to salesman and do your own research. HP has technical specs posted online for each printer. Caveat Emptor.
9: If your printer is just out of warranty and you have a problem with it, call tech support anyway.
Always do this. Hand the manager some sad sob story about not being able to call right away because x happened. They are people too and have the power to make exceptions. The closer you are to the warranty the better. But please dont expect a warranty claim if your warranty ended more than a week or two ago.
The one's I skipped are either really obvious or really unimportant. - Philoushka, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I would be interested to know what that page-count reset number is actually set to.
I can see both sides of the coin - on the consumer's side - why shouldn't a printer work in perpetuity? On the manufacturing side, a drum should only be used for a certain period of time; after all, it is a consumable part. Giving the customer the expectation that you can get QUALITY copies from a drum after 500,000 prints is ridiculous. The consumer's expectation that it'll print forever and a day without replacing parts is unrealistic. Car analogy could fit here.
Regardless, the replacement parts should NOT cost as much as new unit. - dancurranjr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9noo doot aboot it!
- techlinks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Oh boy I laughed when I heard that. Sorry to burst your bubble but we speak a variant of English...and so do you.
- Hardcase, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Humor...er, humour, eh? Get some!
- phineous, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Sorry, but HP makes the bulk of their money from ink, and ink is the only reason they are currently showing a profit.
HP Posts A Profit Based On Ink
http://printscan.about.com/b/a/257626.htm - vuke69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"I do my work on Mac OS X and Linux now"
Good choice, pure linux here.
HP Laser printers do, and pretty much always have worked flawlessly in linux. And as far as I know their inkjets work well also. Check linuxprinting.org for details on specific printers.
I have also had nothing but good luck with Ricoh printers (less some minor tweaks for PCL). If you need a solid, yet cheap (about $500) color laser, you could do worse than a Ricoh CL2000N or CL3500N. Reasonably fast (22ppm color?), 1200dpi, cheap toner (black 8k about $35, color 8k are about $70 each for the CL2000; and black 12k about $50, or color 12k for about $100 each for the CL3500). We have about a dozen of them and I am very happy with them. Only thing is, DON'T run pre-punched paper through them, you will tear up the PCU in a couple of hundred pages, expensive mistake (but Ricoh support prorated them for me, and I got new ones for next to nothing). - dezmd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Yeah, really. Besides, everyone knows that Americans don't say 'eh' we say 'ay', as in 'Ay yew, com'ere' (+ southern accent)
Cheers. - Philoushka, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8someone set us up the bomb. seriously, I was hoping TFA said that tongue in cheek.
- CamperBob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6One more entry at the end of the list:
15) Zombie Bill and Zombie Dave will return one day, and there will be an awful accounting. Blood will run in the streets of Palo Alto when they see what's been done to their company. - VioletArrows, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Almost all printer companies do this whether it's legal or not. Those ***** at Epson did this to me. I didn't want to spend $60 on print cartridges (because if one cart runs out, NONE of them work, more of their greedy faggotry), so I bought the same ones refurbished for $30, and the printer refused to recognize them (the printer stayed 'empty'). Breaking down and getting the expensive retail ones still wouldn't fix it. Tech support literally said SOL, so now I have a $100 bulky ugly scanner. Never buying another Epson again.
I'd kill to launch the piece of ***** through their offices with a trebuchet. :p - mikedmoon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6>>Many HP Printers, like their laser printers, have a built-in page-count after which they won't work. This resides in the a transpart sometimes called image or drum kit. Rather than get the printer fixed, it's often cheaper to buy a new printer, OR you can do a NV ram reset. It resets everything in the printer, including all the page counts, but it's not without risks.
This blatantly false. High end lasers have maintenance cycles. Typically for 350,000 pages. You will get a message at 350,000 pages to replace the mait kit. This is the rollers, the fuser, transfer roller and a few other parts. Its nothing more then an oil change for your printer. Running 350k pages thru a printer causes wear and tear. The parts wear down. As for the drum kit....the imaging drum in 90% of Laser printers is built into the toner cartridge, so when you get a new toner cart you get a new drum. This dude doesn't know what the ***** he's talking about. - DorkmasterFlek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The HR consulting company I used to do IT work for bought them. We didn't have too much trouble with them, and it was never a problem to actually get a tech out since we had a full coverage support program, but we usually had to wait several days for the tech to actually get out there. Then I had to show them where the printer was and basically watch them fix it. Tons of fun! :)
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