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115 Comments
- cheesetoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Blog, linking to an Article, linking to the Site of Interest. Why not just link to the Site of Interest?
http://winxponmac.com/The%20Contest.html - phatpat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Blog, linking to an Article, linking to the Site of Interest. Why not just link to the Site of Interest?
- inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Meanwhile, there's another contest where you can win $5000 for stuffing a dog turd in a pair of Gucci Loafers.
- yensed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Watch someone do this. And then 2-3 months later Apple will officially make it possible...
- ionix18, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1it has nothing to do with DRM. It means that winXP cannot understand the EFI. It will be hacked by patching a windows XP install CD with an EFI custom driver and will remain underground...
- ArcticCelt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Its maybe just me but crippling the bios to prevent dual boot sounds like Apple execs are shutting themselves in the foot. I nead to upgrade my pc and I was planning to get my first Mac because I thought Ill be able to dual boot. Seems that I was wrong. Guess they are probably happy with their 2.88% market share (data from 2004). Well I'll will then simply use the hacked version of OSX on a regular brand new pc then. Nice move!
- ra3ndy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@shade73
OHNOES! I can't play all 4 thousand of my WWII shooters!? Back to Windows I go!
There are less PC gamers out there than there are Mac Users. Gaming support could AT BEST bring about a 2-3% increase in Market Share. But that isn't what's keeping Macs out of the market.
In fact, right now, nothing's keeping them out of the market. That's why they're gaining. And when they get big enough, you'll have your gaming support. And you can shoot Nazis with luxurious Core Graphics support. - jrmcgrath13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I like the first comment on the site.
- LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm getting very sick and tired of people claiming that Apple intentionally "crippling" their computers by not letting people boot Windows...
Apple chose the EFI over the BIOS not to snub Windows users, but because the plain jane 30+ year old BIOS simply didn't cut it for their requirements for their Macs.
Before the Intel Macs, all modern Macs used OpenFirmware as their "BIOS"... OpenFirmware allowed for the following set of features: boot from firewire disk, boot from network, firewire target disk mode (which basically turned the Mac into a firewire hard drive on bootup so you can mount the Mac's drive onto another computer)...
The fact is, the PC BIOS made it impossible to do most of this firmware goodness in the same way that Apple offered in PowerPC based macs before with the same ease. So Apple looked to Intel, and looked very closely at EFI, which could offer the same functionality as OpenFirmware.
This is not about snubbing Windows users... this is about Apple continuing to support Mac users and their expectation that their Macs can easily boot into target disk mode, can easily boot off of an external hard drive, or the network.
Had Apple chosen to use a BIOS, some of these features would have been broken... Apple's preview DTK was a Pentium 4 mac with a BIOS... it did not have firewire target disk. Sure Apple would have made the Windows fanboys happy... but they would have alienated their base Mac users. - eclectro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Probably because windows XP is an "untrusted program" therefore the efi bios won't let you run it. Welcome to the new world of DRM where this is a "feature".
- 0x2a, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Prize money's going up -- $7371 at the moment
- sith33, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The handshake has to do with booting OSX on a non-Apple box, not booting some other OS on a Mac. It's just a matter of getting a bootloader that is happy with EFI to get XP going...
- kazem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ok, I think before anyone posts a comment in these forums, they should go to the forums that actually discuss this, educate themselves, and then come back. It's not an easy hack. At least not now. OS X and Windows uses totally different partition tables. And the Mac's EFI doesn't recognize, as far as we can tell, the Windows partition table. So it's not as easy as running LILO or GRUB.
- neofactor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I am at a complete loss as to why anyone would want to DUAL boot Windows XP on a Mac OS.... other than for sport.
The REAL focus should be on having VirtualPC or VMware natively leveraging the Intel chip on-top of the mac OS.
I am sure their are people that want to have that great moment when they are working happily on their mac and say... I need to use a windows app.... hey lets reboot into a completely new OS quiting all my other OSX apps I have open so I can use that Microsoft only Money.. or something like that... sure that is productive. It would be better to Virtually boot... not dual
From a cost stand point... virtual makes much more sense... why by an expensive mac just to boot to XP? VISTA will most likely support EFI... so just sit tight. Or at least wait till VirtualPC or VMware ship a product.
Besides... whoever ran out to buy an Intel Mac is crazy! None of the Pro apps for OS X are out yet... not till March! Must be why the want XP so bad.. so they can get some work done.
I am happy with my G4 Powerbook.... I will look at Mac Intel later this year when things calm down. - MikhoohkiM, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1has anyone tried a Fire wire Hard Drive with windows installed on it? you know like just boot with the fire wire. I used to use my ipod (photo) with ubuntu installed on it but never really got it to work. that is doable right? booting from a fire wire hard drive?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2As far as I can tell, this is a total 'geek/nerd' thing, and I don't neccesarily mean that kindly.
What's the big deal? You bought a MAC knowing full well you can't run any apps on it, or just the few out there. Now you want Windows on it? Would that not be the last thing you want to run on it?
Got into a discussion last night with my security teacher, he's into it, but I just had to call him out on it being too nerdy. - mleaman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"why doesn't this magic happen with Linux"
It does, there were about $100,000 in bounties for various ubuntu projects as of 2004.
http://www.ubuntu.com/developers/bounties?action=show&redirect=community%2Fbounties
Get coding! - lukaso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I would like to add another prediction. I think it will be very possible that Microsoft will actually step up to the plate and add some sort of patch/upgrade to XP to allow booting from EFI for this exact reason (and because it is likely that more manufacturers will jump on the bandwagon, and unless Microsoft has Vista out the door really soon, they could be losing a fair amount of OS sales.
- diggnationdevon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why would you want to? How about focusing on getting emulation apps or even working on porting apps over to the mac?
- lukaso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Someone will figure it out very soon, the only problem is that probably 99.8% of the people digging this don't have access to a intel iMac yet, so nobody can try for themselves yet. But as they become more common I would be willing to wager that someone will have XP going before the MacBook ships. Also, of the 0.2% that already has a intel iMac, about 0.2% would be willing to open it up and start screwing around (assuming that this is going to be a hardware modification, although I suspect that it will more of a software soloution.)
- LoungeActx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0yeah I would agree...a dual boot would be really inconvenient. If VMWare and Virtual PC can utilize the Core Duo properly then why not just run it virtually??
- tidejwe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree with the comment above and am also wondering why you don't simply use "Virtual PC" on Mac Os and run Windows XP through that? Then you can have both loaded at the same time which is basically a dual boot, save productivity (by not having to keep resetting and reloading a new OS everytime you want to switch programs), and save modding an otherwise "good" system...
Now can I have my $6000? Thanks. :) - Eccles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why not use Virtual PC? Simple. It doesn't run on Intel Macs. Maybe it will in future, but for now it does not solve this problem.
- expensix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I would by a Mac if it had Windows on it. Such a beautiful computer with an OS that I can use.
- tidejwe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree with expensix. . . Mac seems more stable with hardware, deals with graphics better, etc. . . it's just not very useful in compatibility sense. . . nobody uses it, and if we did, it would get abused just as much as microsoft abuses pc's. . . pick your poison, long live linux (if there was some kind of a standard linux distro anyway)
- mertle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Just a question, I know it might sound silly but I was just wondering?
If you got windows to boot on the mac, would you get all the viruses and spyware/adware on your system too? thanks anyone who clears this up for me. - yugiohdan6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0actually the url isn't the same but the story is
- neverender, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0XP?
why not just wait and use vista... - yugiohdan6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0the it even links to the same URL!!!
- Eccles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The Crossover office folks have pledged support for running Windows apps on Mac OS X, and also to make porting easier. This sounds like the best solution to me for most folks.
ericpp: I agree. What I wish Apple would do is lose a touch of style but gain in convenience, by designing a Mac Mini and special monitor stand, so you mount the mini on the back of the monitor stand. The Mini would be almost invisible, but you could upgrade the Mini or the monitor as desired, or use the Mini with a monitor you already have. - azar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I hope it's done :) The people who are like "teh omgz no!!11" are retarded. YOU yourself don't have to dual boot windows, so why are you wanting to deny people that ability even though it doesn't affect you at all?
(I am still pissed that my iBook is "too new" to run an OS 9 partition) - Avian00, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why do people care about this? Am I the only one who wants to put Mac OS on non-Mac hardware?
- tech70a, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There's got to be some sort of translator built into Vista. My guess is that someone will get their hands on a beta version, find that file, and re-write it for XP. Whatever the solution happens to be... it's way above my head.
I would LOVE to get OSX on my PC - but instead I'm buying my first laptop, which will be an Apple MacBook (not until summer, though). I'd switch to Mac for 3 things: iMovie, MS-Office, and the Macromedia Suite (Dreamweaver, Flash, etc) All of those programs are soooo much nicer on a Mac than on a PC...
Ryan - topper24hours, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1From Wikipedia: .....the forms viri and virii are also used as a plural, although less frequently.
- TimmyK., on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Of course they did this so that people couldn't take OSX and use it on non-Mac PCs. Duh. What a surprise. Apple is more interested in keeping it's customer base than in allowing a very few people (because honestly there are VERY few people who would actually want to) to put Windows on their Mac. If Vista eventually works (when it eventually actually comes out), fine, but I don't understand this attitude that Apple should care in any way if someone can run Windows on their new intel Mac. The absolute only reason I can see for any average person to ever even consider running Windows on a Mac is for games, and honestly if PC games were really that important to us we wouldn't be using a Mac anyway. And who gives a crap about how much of the market Macs have. As long as they are profitable and Apple keeps making them I will be happy if they keep that small fraction, because that is what makes them so unattractive to spyware and virus writing A-HOLES, and makes them more secure. The bigger the market share for Macs grows the worse it is for the Mac users.
- kickarse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Although it doesn't baffle me to think of why they would want to do this...still I think it's stupid. Just use a windows box for windows and mac for mac...
But if I had a crack at it I would try to load linux with it's multi boot support and then try and load windows in. - rmm5t, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I completely agree with neofactor. Why would you want to dual boot? That's such a pain in the ass for real work. VMWare, if you are listening, make a new Mac OSX Intel version of your product. You'll make a profit.
- ungamedplayer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I cant imaginr it being too hard.. so here is the attack plan that I'd take.
1) Install OS X leaving 10gb of disk space, and another with about 1gb.
2) Rip elilo out of RHEL's install of x86_64.
2) install winxp on another machine
3) dd that image to the spare partition.
4) windows uses a few files to boot from, i'm sure that there is a minimal
amount of files that you can do.
5) configure elilo to start from this environment.. booting into this "minimal" safe mode.
6) After booting, "pivot" the installer, from this environment into the full x86 mode, and continue running.
I think i could get to 5, but 6.. I'd be lost.. dont know enough windows.. - kazem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is a duplicate...it's just that no one was interested in digging it when it was only $1,000
- sud0n1m, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why is this link to some guys blog that links to the InformationWeek article which is scraped from the article written by the guy at techweb that called me a few days ago. Why not just link to the site? http://winxponmac.com
Oh, and I am not going to run away with the money. - shade73, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2oh you mac fanboys "why would you want to boot windows, mac is so much better." one reason, and it's the reason your comp's still own less than 20% market share is b/c your gaming support SUCKS. That's where windows come in. I know a bunch of gamers that said they would give a mac a try, but they aren't gonna wait an extra year, or never, to play a game that is already out on windows. SO get over yourselves, you need dual booting if you ever expect gaming support for the mac to pick up. B/c once all the gamers see how solid the mac is, and completely move over, the dev's will move with it.
- r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@ungamedplayer
Why would u want to use ELILO out of x86_64 linux, cos none of the new Intel Macs are 64-bit, so it ain't gonna work.
I'm sure it's a bit more complicated than just having something bootstrap related as the whole BIOS operation etc. is quite core to running Windows, so you'd need to have the whole BIOS-emulation layer on EFI for it to work. - hookid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0its now at $7535.00
- zoltan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0sweetness
- Hieros, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hmm... Well, I guess this will get the Mac-Windows amalgamation ball is rolling.
- zoltan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Wow, a dongle powered by a P4. Imagine that."
sweetness - axonal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The people who have been saying that the new Intel macs load faster than the G5 macs, its probably because the Intel macs have part of OS X loaded in a chip or something, the basic non-changeable stuff. Somewhat similar to a software suspend except the necessary core parts of the system are loaded up into the computer somewhere. So it can easily just "dump" everything, and then start loading from a pre-defined default like setting thats universal among all user-defined setups.
- r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@ArcticCeklt "Its maybe just me but crippling the bios to prevent dual boot..."
It is just you, the only crippling part is XP doesn't understand EFI, Apple haven't done anything to prevent it. But, they certainly aren't going to do it for you! - zodieman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Personally, I don't think anyone will be able to boot XP on an Intel Mac because XP does not recognize or boot on EFI systems. Vista however supports EFI booting.
Having said this, there is only 1 reason I'd want to run Windows on my Mac... better games. - Trjn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Someone will do this, how long it will take? Thats the big question, but eventually people will be able to run WinXP on a Mac. Personally, I don't see the point, as by the the time they get around to writing the inbetween loader, or whatever it will take to allow for this kind of setup to really work, there will probably be a much smoother emulator to simply run the Windows based software on the Mac, somewhat similar to Rosetta.
And as long as you aren't gaming, the Rosetta speeds are fine for me. -
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