What is Digg?239 Comments
- kingoftonga, on 10/10/2007, -4/+83I wish more articles like this would get Dugg and less Ron Paul/iPhone hype.
- underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -1/+52It's possible. Consider early sea exploration (relative to space exploration) when the more advanced Europeans came to the Americas and conquered the native civilizations there. To the natives, ships and sea exploration were a brand new concept to them, and making contact with European civilization was entirely alien to them. To the Europeans, exploring the sea was nothing new to them, and any civilization they came in contact with was simply another place to loot and conquer.
So yes, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that any far advanced civilization we happen to come in contact with has grown out of the excitement of making contact with another civilization, and has moved onto conquering their neighbors instead, as the history of civilization on Earth has shown us.
Although it's also possible that if they're that scientifically advanced that they've also grown out of their adolescent "bullying others" stage of their civilization and would actually want to share their findings with us and help us grow as well.
Food for thought. - underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -0/+46FTA:
"Furthermore, the development of biotechnology has opened entirely new possibilities. These probes may act as life-forms, reproducing their genetic information, mutating and evolving at each stage of reproduction to enhance their capabilities, and may have artificial intelligence to accelerate their search."
After reading that, I entertained the possibility that the human race itself be a Von Neumann probe. All the parent civilization is doing is waiting for us to evolve to the point where we make contact with them again so they can come over and claim our planet as their own.
Then again, maybe that's just a stupid idea and I don't get enough sleep at night. - MeMongo, on 10/10/2007, -3/+36Michio rocks! Every time I see this guy on (or hosting) a show, he helps me understand a little more about physics.
- revenge7, on 10/10/2007, -0/+21I'm sure any Type III civilization will be advanced enough to avoid war altogether. And besides, if they can harness the energy of a galaxy, what could they possibly want from us.
Most likely, contact with any significantly advanced civilization would be extremely beneficial to humanity. - Rustbelt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22The official language of aviation is English and the largest democracies speak it (U.S, Great Britain, Australia, Canada, India) He may have something there.
- yodaj007, on 10/10/2007, -2/+22It's the cows. We think we farm them and use them for meat, but the reality is they're watching us. Observing. Waiting. Then, before you know what's happening... BAM! Cows with guns!
We're doomed. - sensoukami, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19That was a damn cool read. way dugg...
- JonnyTrombone, on 10/10/2007, -1/+19Michio Kaku is a world renowned physicist who helped to develop String-Theory. He's also very well known as a futurist and has written numerous books. This isn't pseudo-science, it's the branch of physics the man helped to create.
- Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -0/+18It is an odd thought, thinking that our universe could just be the baby of a Type 4 Super advanced society,
- Djerrid, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18"Lastly, physicist Alan Guth of MIT, one of the originators of the inflationary universe theory, has even computed the energy necessary to create a baby universe in the laboratory (the temperature is 1,000 trillion degrees, which is within the range of these hypothetical civilizations)."
So THAT'S where the big bang came from. - gmiley, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14I would tend to agree with revenge for the most part. While they would recognize that we do exhibit signs of intelligence, I think they would look at us more as we look at a colony of ants. They would have no real reason to try to help us with anything let alone even try to communicate with us. The only reason they would have to destroy us would be similar to why people would kill ants: you are minding your own business, maybe you accidentally disturb the ants, the ants see a threat and you get bit/stung. You stomp a few of them out, or spray them with a chemical and leave the area then pretty much forget about the event.
- DJGator, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14I always believed that for a civilization to become so technologically advanced they would have to evolve past the concept of war to avoid self-destruction. So any civilization that would have the means to come into contact with us would be a peaceful one.
- overtoke, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15So advanced than you would not be able to distinguish them from god.
- adb44, on 10/10/2007, -6/+20FTA: "We see the beginning of a planetary language (English), a planetary communication system (the Internet), a planetary economy (the forging of the European Union), and even the beginnings of a planetary culture (via mass media, TV, rock music, and Hollywood films)."
I dunno...that statement just reeks of hubris to me. I'll buy the internet as planetary communication, but we've a long way to go before the culture or language of the world is aligned, and I'm hoping it will be along better lines than loving Bon Jovi and Tom Cruise. - richbradshaw, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13This is what digg is for!
I emailed the author to invite him to take part in this discussion. - ShazerFox, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12what's keeping them from being similar to us? Apparently, there are certain evolutionary advantages to having symmetry, using tools, and an instinct for survival.
- gdog05, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11I vote Michio for prez. He's my write-in candidate for everything. A charismatic uber-smart scientist should be a high ranking official at least.
- TrevorBelmont, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10I dugg him for you to nullify your bury.
- solidsnake1298, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Agreed. Hes on the History and Discovery channel all the time and I think he is one of our most brilliant Physicists of our times. Not only is he brilliant, he has a fantastic vision of the future.
- underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9They cover that very concept in Contact. That all by itself is an interesting way to think about how an advanced civlization would look at us. Ever tried to teach quantum physics to a penguin? To them, we're about as advanced as penguins, as it were.
- SilkSteel, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10So, "God" is just a type 5 civilization.. harnessing the power of the entire known universe.
- gmiley, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Heh, I had actually thought the exact same thing as I was reading that paragraph. Perhaps we both don't get enough sleep. :)
- ViperCTW, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9My favorite Michio Kaku quote is from an astronomy magazine (can't remember which) in a story dealing with how the universe will end. They had a number of well known scientists give their take, and they all basically said life and the universe will expand, entropy will take over, and it'll all die out. When the author asked Michio, his reply was "If you're on a boat and it's sinking, just jump in a life craft and go to another boat! We'll just head over to a parallel universe." The next line was about Roger Penrose, when hearing that quote, groan and roll his eyes.
You've got to love Michio's enthusiasm. - RobbieF, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9mkaku@aol.com
Somebody please give that man a gmail account. He deserves better. - underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8That's true. I made an oversight in my parent comment and didn't take that into account. Yet, as I think about it, it still fits in the domestic exploration analogy I made. Within reason, most of the civilized countries that used to explore, conquer, explore and conquer again in the infancy of sea exploration, now trade and interact with the countries they used to conquer.
War in modern times is not war for the sake of conquering unknown lands, it's now for other things I need not mention, as they're obvious.
So, it's possible that other civilizations could be militant, but not necessarily because they want to conquer us out of spite of being an unknown civilization.
Does that work? - Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Ever had a look at Moore's law, uh, 'Junkyarddawg'?
Did you know that since it's original writing the pace of doubling has gone from every two years to every single year, in only forty years? The rate of exponential growth is growing exponentially.
Everything is getting faster. And the speed at which it is getting faster is getting faster too. That, is the Singularity. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7This is the guy that wrote a book that changed my life Hyperspace.
I found him on AOL in 94' and sent him an e-mail with a question about the book and he e-mailed me back. That guy is alright! - PhantomZmoove, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6How about they are waiting for us to advance far enough to make contact with them so they can congratulate us on how far we've come and show us how to make our own probes to launch out. (you know, instead of the whole claiming/enslaving thing)
- SimpleC, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I'm all for Michio's plan as long as this universe gets to be called Universe A.
- Xill, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8We have much potential if only we could overcome our lust for power and control.
- lansuggs, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Great read. I'm glad that it didn't go into too much detail, and kept it as general as possible. A huge mistake made in most predictions and depictions of extraterrestrial lifeforms are their uncanny similarities with what we know as life. The article only referred to energy and other abstract such, which is a more realistic way of putting the potential for alien life. Then again, perhaps a Type 4 civilization has found a way to live without energy or even without physical beings.
I laugh whenever people talk about close encounters and UFOs. People actually believe that aliens would be so alike with us humans, with symmetrical bodies, mechanical contraptions, and egos similar to our own. - grubbydigger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Did it ever occur to you that we might be the most advanced civilization?
- MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5And unless we can obliterate scarcity - the root of all human conflict - it'll stay that way.
Unfortunately for some, scarcity is the basis of capitalism. If we ever get universal nanotech assemblers working, capitalism is pretty screwed. That's why the Star Trek universe operates on pseudo-socialistic principles - what do you sell when there's nothing scarce? - ryancxx, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Worst comment ever
- crisvtc5, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Brings this Asimov story to mind: http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
- Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7It's a nice analysis, but I disagree on a few important points:
First of all, I think it's a major mistake not to include computational cycles as a measure of a hypothetical civilization - the smarter they are, the faster their going to expand. A matrioshka brain is going to have a lot more thinking space to throw at a problem than an old fashioned dyson sphere, populated by old-fashioned organic life.
As soon as we get smart enough to start building artificial intelligences that are smarter than we are, especially self-improving AIs, they are going to start building a world that's optimized for their own survival, not ours. If we design them right, they'll take care of us, but they'll be turning our solar system in clouds of distributed computers, feeding on solar radiation. If we're clever, we might even be able to change ourselves until we can live in such a state as well, completely free of any bodies whatever.
Secondly, I strongly suspect that nano-technology will vastly accelerate the jump to a type II civilization - outer solar colonies and structures will literally be able to build themselves. As soon as nano-assemblers become mainstream, I suspect it'll basically be a land grab, with everybody and his brother launching Von Newman swarms to eat the outer planets and turn them into something valuable.
I'd be very surprised if we don't end up with a Dyson sphere, at the very least. - adb44, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6TNG's "The Chase"?
- iceblademan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5...umm...belief or lack thereof should have no bearing on physics. It's interesting no matter what you choose to believe
- iceblademan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5You obviously weren't around when Digg was in its infancy...
I remember when interesting articles used to flow like milk and honey from the promised land.
Anyone? - Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5For us, a Type O Civillization, War is what drives everything: Our economy, all sciences, etc.
- Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Hmmmm...
Yeah. I think if UFO's had been showing up for 'thousands of years', they'd either declare themselves, and leave some physical evidence behind, in the form of a landing crater, or a damaged spacecraft, or a discarded fuel booster, or they would hide themselves for study, and not be careless enough to be seen by some sleep-deprived air-force pilots or wandering yahoos.
And they're definitely not going to be touching down in our corn fields. - kmpr326, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I eat cows because I fear this is the truth.
- MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4It's disappointing that other countries can have great scientific minds as leaders, but here in the US we're stuck with Dopey Joe and his traveling rodeo circus.
- Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Well, we're too advanced to want anything from cockroaches, but contact with us is definitely not beneficial to them.
- honkeybot5k, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7I think the encounters with UFO / Aliens are just the modern version of something that's been going on throughout human history. It used to be fairies, elves, angels and spirts because those were the popular archetypes of the time. Now it's UFOs. We still don't understand how the mind works or it's interaction with the world around us. Physics is beginning to demonstrate that our minds to have some interaction with the world at a quantum level.
So, maybe these "visitations" seem very real, but are actually manifestations of the mind itself. - Bega, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5For now. Before English, it was French. Do you actually think it will stay the same forever?
- merien, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Isn't it a bit presumptuous to think that extraterrestrial life will lead to something we'll recognize as civilization? Human civilization has only been around for a fraction of the existence of life on earth and it is not certain it is here to stay. Life on other planets could have evolved in a whole different direction without any recognizable civilization.
- underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Like how the Vulcans saw mankind discover Warp Drive and came down to visit in Star Trek: First Contact? Live long and prosper.
- revenge7, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Reminded me of this story: http://infohost.nmt.edu/~mlindsey/asimov/question.htm
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