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The Physics of Extraterrestrial Civilizations

mkaku.org — How advanced could they possibly be?

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  • MeMongo, on 10/10/2007, -3/+36Michio rocks! Every time I see this guy on (or hosting) a show, he helps me understand a little more about physics.
    • solidsnake1298, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Agreed. Hes on the History and Discovery channel all the time and I think he is one of our most brilliant Physicists of our times. Not only is he brilliant, he has a fantastic vision of the future.
    • jake8689, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1dosent the Von Neumann probes kinda sound like the borg
    • Heathen531, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Where does the Silver Surfer fit into all of this?
    • djlosch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2a lot of this article is from his book "Hyperspace", which is seriously awesome (from 1995). i highly recommend it if you're into theoretical physics and philosophy. when you read his stuff, it makes the ***** that goes on around us seem so petty. if your library doesn't have it, check amazon.
  • Djerrid, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18"Lastly, physicist Alan Guth of MIT, one of the originators of the inflationary universe theory, has even computed the energy necessary to create a baby universe in the laboratory (the temperature is 1,000 trillion degrees, which is within the range of these hypothetical civilizations)."

    So THAT'S where the big bang came from.
    • thcobbs, on 10/10/2007, -21/+5No, THAT big bang came from all the guys in the room with your mom 9 months before you were born.
    • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -0/+18It is an odd thought, thinking that our universe could just be the baby of a Type 4 Super advanced society,
      • Valleye, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4A god maybe. Not The God but one just the same. Hmmmm.
    • monospaced, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Whoah. As an atheist this is intriguing.
      • iceblademan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5...umm...belief or lack thereof should have no bearing on physics. It's interesting no matter what you choose to believe
    • revenge7, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Reminded me of this story: http://infohost.nmt.edu/~mlindsey/asimov/question.htm
  • underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -0/+46FTA:
    "Furthermore, the development of biotechnology has opened entirely new possibilities. These probes may act as life-forms, reproducing their genetic information, mutating and evolving at each stage of reproduction to enhance their capabilities, and may have artificial intelligence to accelerate their search."

    After reading that, I entertained the possibility that the human race itself be a Von Neumann probe. All the parent civilization is doing is waiting for us to evolve to the point where we make contact with them again so they can come over and claim our planet as their own.

    Then again, maybe that's just a stupid idea and I don't get enough sleep at night.
    • Boeing777, on 10/10/2007, -12/+1maybe you didn't get enough sleep last night ;)
    • gmiley, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Heh, I had actually thought the exact same thing as I was reading that paragraph. Perhaps we both don't get enough sleep. :)
      • PhantomZmoove, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6How about they are waiting for us to advance far enough to make contact with them so they can congratulate us on how far we've come and show us how to make our own probes to launch out. (you know, instead of the whole claiming/enslaving thing)
        • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0In situations like this, I always wonder...

          What would WE do?
        • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Shoot, sorry, double post.

          Digg down, please.
        • underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Like how the Vulcans saw mankind discover Warp Drive and came down to visit in Star Trek: First Contact? Live long and prosper.
        • angryredplanet, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I agree. To have lasted millions of years, a society so advanced will be evolved enough to realise that war is not a productive option and is the by-product of fear. ET's may have world-ending tools/weapons but to use them against civilizations of unknown origin and capability would be risky and they'd have nothing to really gain by doing so.
    • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I would think that a Vob Neumman probe would be much more efficent then us humans.
      • MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2A Karadoshov Type III civilization's got nothing but time, baby. When you've completely conquered a galaxy, the only thing left is to spore out to others. It's not as though inhabitants of such a civilization would be involuntarily mortal - why rush the job only to end up with grey goo? Biological/evolving probes might be a plenty efficient method, since we don't know the purpose behind it anyway.
        • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0If we are in fact Von Neuman Probes then they would have put us on this planet as fish, not the highly evolved beings that we are today. Would they have know that the fish they planted here would eventually evolve to become something intelligent? Probably not, as it would be very different circumstances on each planet the sent these things to. why would they send single cell beings to Earth, gambling that they wouldnt just die and that the conditions would be good enough for us to evolve?
    • adb44, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6TNG's "The Chase"?
      • MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Indeed. That's perhaps the most important episode in the entire franchise ... and the most underappreciated.
    • praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1If that's the case, I think they ***** up their programming.
    • monospaced, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yeah, I was really stoned when I read this too.
    • Burpeey, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Actually, I'm pretty sober and I thought the exact same thing when reading this.

      The technology that goes into humans is still a lot better than anything we've come up with ourselves. Sure, the building blocks we use may be different from what we're made of ourselves, but who says any other civilization uses the same building blocks.

      Creating a single cell that has a built in evolution mechanism, should definitely be possible for future generations. Considering the time span that is suggested, it's easily entertained that a civilization became impatient and decided to send out their probes to other planets even though their technology was not yet perfect.

      Maybe, these cells were engineered into evolving into such a pattern that it would adapt to the planet's conditions if possible. It would also require the cells to be capable of travelling in Space. It would need to be capable of landing on a planet as well, which (who knows) maybe some of the cells still found on earth today, could still be capable of (has any testing ever been done on cells being able to live in outer space?).

      Whatever the case may be, I think this is actually a pretty plausible scenario. Ingrained into the cells, would need to be a few basic characteristics: the need to spread and colonize (not only humans have this, also think of all other organisms including bacteria and virii, which in fact spread and/or colonize cells) and the need to survive through replication and evolution.

  • DiggsOnlyNeoCon, on 10/10/2007, -24/+11That certainly is a lot of words.
    • ViperCTW, on 10/10/2007, -8/+10Yea, if it's not in a Top 10 format it's not worth reading
    • Valleye, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2Pics or it didn't happen.
  • Boeing777, on 10/10/2007, -9/+9The question is: Do we want to make contact with such advanced civilization? I think not because we'll be the losers if we did.
    Us, human tend to invade and conquer those we think are inferior (look at the human history), so let a whole sophisticated civilization that masters physics and science like we can't possibly imagine today.
    It is indeed a very puzzling question science that we know is unable to answer.
    • underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -1/+52It's possible. Consider early sea exploration (relative to space exploration) when the more advanced Europeans came to the Americas and conquered the native civilizations there. To the natives, ships and sea exploration were a brand new concept to them, and making contact with European civilization was entirely alien to them. To the Europeans, exploring the sea was nothing new to them, and any civilization they came in contact with was simply another place to loot and conquer.

      So yes, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that any far advanced civilization we happen to come in contact with has grown out of the excitement of making contact with another civilization, and has moved onto conquering their neighbors instead, as the history of civilization on Earth has shown us.

      Although it's also possible that if they're that scientifically advanced that they've also grown out of their adolescent "bullying others" stage of their civilization and would actually want to share their findings with us and help us grow as well.

      Food for thought.
      • Boeing777, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3agreed!
        I gave you a negative digg by mistake. your thoughts deserve a good positive digg!
        • TrevorBelmont, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10I dugg him for you to nullify your bury.
        • maci01, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Aww crap, I dugg him up for Boeing without reading your reply. Can somebody digg him down..
      • jake8689, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1yes if we happen to come in contact with advanced humans we have to remember these are not humans hell the could have 8 legs and 4 arms or the could be vary smart sparrows
      • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I'd digg you up, but I think 42 diggs is exactly the right number for you.
    • revenge7, on 10/10/2007, -0/+21I'm sure any Type III civilization will be advanced enough to avoid war altogether. And besides, if they can harness the energy of a galaxy, what could they possibly want from us.

      Most likely, contact with any significantly advanced civilization would be extremely beneficial to humanity.
      • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Well, we're too advanced to want anything from cockroaches, but contact with us is definitely not beneficial to them.
      • longbow486, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0either that or they could be so boared that they just roam the universe looking for places to take over... but i doubt that
      • Heathen531, on 10/10/2007, -5/+0
        They'll want to interbreed with our beautiful White women, destroy the purity of our blood, and put an end to our kind. All will deny this holocaust.

        "Our Control Commissions will, in the interests of peace and wiping out inter- racial tensions forbid the Whites to mate with Whites. The White Women must cohabit with members of the dark races, the White Men with black women. Thus the White Race will disappear, for the mixing of the dark with the White means the end of the White Man, and our most dangerous enemy will become only a memory. We shall embark upon an era of ten thousand years of peace and plenty, the Pax Judaica, and our race will rule undisputed over the world. Our superior intelligence will easily enable us to retain mastery over a world of dark peoples." -- Rabbi Rabinovich (In a speech given January 12th, 1952)

        "While inflaming the Negro minority against the Whites, we will endeavor to instill in the Whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negroes, we will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of life, in the professions, and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the Whites and begin a process that will deliver America to our cause." -- Israel Cohen (1919, one of the founders of the American Communist Party)

    • DJGator, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14I always believed that for a civilization to become so technologically advanced they would have to evolve past the concept of war to avoid self-destruction. So any civilization that would have the means to come into contact with us would be a peaceful one.
      • underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8That's true. I made an oversight in my parent comment and didn't take that into account. Yet, as I think about it, it still fits in the domestic exploration analogy I made. Within reason, most of the civilized countries that used to explore, conquer, explore and conquer again in the infancy of sea exploration, now trade and interact with the countries they used to conquer.

        War in modern times is not war for the sake of conquering unknown lands, it's now for other things I need not mention, as they're obvious.

        So, it's possible that other civilizations could be militant, but not necessarily because they want to conquer us out of spite of being an unknown civilization.

        Does that work?
        • DJGator, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2History does repeat itself. But how macro is the cycle of repetition? How useful is examining the early stages of human exploration and conquering of natives when referring to a Type III civilization which would be exponentially older and advanced. The cycle could be based on the early days of exploration and conquering or it could be a minute part of a much grander cycle that could be millions of years in age.
      • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5For us, a Type O Civillization, War is what drives everything: Our economy, all sciences, etc.
        • MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5And unless we can obliterate scarcity - the root of all human conflict - it'll stay that way.

          Unfortunately for some, scarcity is the basis of capitalism. If we ever get universal nanotech assemblers working, capitalism is pretty screwed. That's why the Star Trek universe operates on pseudo-socialistic principles - what do you sell when there's nothing scarce?
      • revenge7, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1It seems that if a Type II or III civilization still fought wars, they would end up wiping themselves out, since they must have incredible weapons.
        • MonkeyFit, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Also remember that with each new weapon comes a new defense. Why haven't we had a full scale nuclear war? We could've easily wiped ourselves out by now. But the fact the other guy has just as many has proven to be a valid defense.
        • maci01, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1In the article it states that the seeds of the Type I civilization are already forming (planetary language, a planetary communication system, a planetary economy and even the beginnings of a planetary culture.) I don't think elements of war within such a civilization would be present -- just a pure unification.
    • gmiley, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14I would tend to agree with revenge for the most part. While they would recognize that we do exhibit signs of intelligence, I think they would look at us more as we look at a colony of ants. They would have no real reason to try to help us with anything let alone even try to communicate with us. The only reason they would have to destroy us would be similar to why people would kill ants: you are minding your own business, maybe you accidentally disturb the ants, the ants see a threat and you get bit/stung. You stomp a few of them out, or spray them with a chemical and leave the area then pretty much forget about the event.
      • underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9They cover that very concept in Contact. That all by itself is an interesting way to think about how an advanced civlization would look at us. Ever tried to teach quantum physics to a penguin? To them, we're about as advanced as penguins, as it were.
    • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I don't know about that.

      Historically, when our technology has developed, the wars have grown correspondingly larger, not smaller.
      • revenge7, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1More like, where wars have grown larger, technology has developed.
    • tdawson2012, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Your applying human territorialism to other life. They very well may crush us like insects with no remorse or even not care that we exist. It's hard to imagine the mental nuances of life which evolved on another world. A lot of what we are comes from the primitive parts of our brains which are residuals from our reptilian and lower mammal ancestors. it's certainly fun to think about the possibilities though.
    • gbv23, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Earth is currently quarantined until we learn to stop destroying our planet and each other. The random beam-ships that do get through to us are bending "the rules" and must remain in stealth-mode (so they don't just land on the white-house lawn) Also the more advanced races are living in 5 and 6 dimensions so its easier and faster for them to "manifest" reality, whereas we're only starting to understand the relationship between our thought/beliefs/expectations and our perceptions and experiences of "objective" reality.
      -tin-foil hat guy
  • adb44, on 10/10/2007, -6/+20FTA: "We see the beginning of a planetary language (English), a planetary communication system (the Internet), a planetary economy (the forging of the European Union), and even the beginnings of a planetary culture (via mass media, TV, rock music, and Hollywood films)."

    I dunno...that statement just reeks of hubris to me. I'll buy the internet as planetary communication, but we've a long way to go before the culture or language of the world is aligned, and I'm hoping it will be along better lines than loving Bon Jovi and Tom Cruise.
    • Rustbelt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22The official language of aviation is English and the largest democracies speak it (U.S, Great Britain, Australia, Canada, India) He may have something there.
      • Bega, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5For now. Before English, it was French. Do you actually think it will stay the same forever?
        • MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It could, if it's properly implemented and the majority of the world adopts it ... like they are right now.

          Kaku never says that a planetary language, comm system, and economy are already in place, he just says that the beginnings of each are clearly taking form. I don't think that's too big of a jump in logic to make.

          Whew, those guys worried about a North American Union have gotta be pissing themselves over this.
    • raisputin3, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Except that Great Britain is a Constitutional Monarchy, The U.S.A is a Constitutional Republic, and I am too lazy right now to look up the rest.
      • wiggles, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3dugg down for being a pedant.
      • raisputin3, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1LOL! Maybe so, but there is a HUGE Difference, and it is SAD that people refer to the USA as a Democracy when it is not one. In fact, it horrifies me that people aren't constantly correcting those that think that we live in a "Democracy"
    • spencewah, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"the beginnings of" implies that these things are certainly subject to change, but the foundations are there.
  • sensoukami, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19That was a damn cool read. way dugg...
  • kingoftonga, on 10/10/2007, -4/+83I wish more articles like this would get Dugg and less Ron Paul/iPhone hype.
    • underdog138, on 10/10/2007, -13/+1Agreed 100%. If you went back and looked at my comment history, articles like these are the only articles I tend to comment on, and make decent contributions at that.

      That, and the occasional "lolcat" or other interweb meme on the videos section. Yes, sometimes I digg when I get home from the bar while drunk.
    • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Dont we all .

      100% Agreed.
    • iceblademan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5You obviously weren't around when Digg was in its infancy...
      I remember when interesting articles used to flow like milk and honey from the promised land.
      Anyone?
      • GrantTheGr8, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
      • Negyxo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1i hate to be the guy who says this but... i really long for the days when Digg wasn't so freaking mainstream
  • kprooney, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6it's really neat to entertain the idea that there are advanced civilizations right under our noses or that we ourselves are von-neuman (sp? lol) probes. Once we figure out a way to get off Earth and other planets we can really start to leave our mark in the universe.

    I love when articles like this get dugg up on digg.com.
  • lansuggs, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Great read. I'm glad that it didn't go into too much detail, and kept it as general as possible. A huge mistake made in most predictions and depictions of extraterrestrial lifeforms are their uncanny similarities with what we know as life. The article only referred to energy and other abstract such, which is a more realistic way of putting the potential for alien life. Then again, perhaps a Type 4 civilization has found a way to live without energy or even without physical beings.

    I laugh whenever people talk about close encounters and UFOs. People actually believe that aliens would be so alike with us humans, with symmetrical bodies, mechanical contraptions, and egos similar to our own.
    • ShazerFox, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12what's keeping them from being similar to us? Apparently, there are certain evolutionary advantages to having symmetry, using tools, and an instinct for survival.
      • lansuggs, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Never said they can't be similar, just thought it would be unlikely. Our evolutionary advances are based on this Earth, and have resulted from a series of very specific events that could be chaotic enough to be virtually random. It seems, though, that all accounts of aliens on Earth are so similar that it's not a stretch to say that they were easily made up or simply interpretations of occurrences of illusions, hoaxes, hallucinations, dreams, and the exaggerated memories of those events.

        I would argue there is no way that an intelligent life form manifested by a being, e.g., "the Greys", would look almost exactly like us unless they are somehow connected to us; like our evolutionary past, or maybe future. Same goes with supposed alien spacecraft.
        • iceblademan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'm with Lansuggs on this one. I always find it frustrating when I read about SETI only searching a handful of radio frequencies. What if the denizens of another planet communicate with light energy (i.e. lasers) rather than with sound energy (i.e. spoken voice)? It's foolish to assume that any civilization worth looking for will be anything like our own race
    • yodaj007, on 10/10/2007, -2/+22It's the cows. We think we farm them and use them for meat, but the reality is they're watching us. Observing. Waiting. Then, before you know what's happening... BAM! Cows with guns!

      We're doomed.
    • honkeybot5k, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7I think the encounters with UFO / Aliens are just the modern version of something that's been going on throughout human history. It used to be fairies, elves, angels and spirts because those were the popular archetypes of the time. Now it's UFOs. We still don't understand how the mind works or it's interaction with the world around us. Physics is beginning to demonstrate that our minds to have some interaction with the world at a quantum level.

      So, maybe these "visitations" seem very real, but are actually manifestations of the mind itself.
      • MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3That almost sounds coherent, but on a second look it's clearly psychobabble. There is nothing that indicates that hallucinations or perceived experiences are caused by the interaction of thought with matter/energy on a quantum scale.
        • abdrahman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Especially the,"Physics is beginning to demonstrate that our minds to have some interaction with the world at a quantum level." ***** that I hear from "The Secret" fans.
    • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2ahh yes, I agree.

      if we have or are ever going to interact with other Civillizations on our planet, It would be like this article said: They either planted a von neummann probe on our moon waiting for us to become a type II or have thousands of spies among us right now that are 1/billionth of the size of an atom
    • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I laugh when people think that Aliens must be carbon based lifeforms even
      • abdrahman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Silicon, the other choice, is too expensive energetically; Carbon-based life is the most probable.
      • BeyondGoodNEvil, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Really, you laugh at that? I laugh at funny jokes, but to each his own.
      • dview, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2You read the New Scientist issue of last month.
  • overtoke, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15So advanced than you would not be able to distinguish them from god.
  • gdog05, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11I vote Michio for prez. He's my write-in candidate for everything. A charismatic uber-smart scientist should be a high ranking official at least.
    • MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4It's disappointing that other countries can have great scientific minds as leaders, but here in the US we're stuck with Dopey Joe and his traveling rodeo circus.
    • revenge7, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Like a Technocracy?
    • BeyondGoodNEvil, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Too bad we have universal suffrage where a retard has equal voting power as Michio or any other genius. Hail democracy, the ruiner of great civilizations!
  • daxsymbiont, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2more advanced than you can think.
  • brandonvan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Dr. Kaku's books are excellent and this article is a good read if you have the time to kill on this lazy friday.
  • AnarchyReigns, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Could someone post up a mirror site so I can read this, it's blocked by my work's internet filter :) Thank you!
    • spencewah, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2How advanced could they possibly be?

      by Michio Kaku

      The late Carl Sagan once asked this question, “What does it mean for a civilization to be a million years old? We have had radio telescopes and spaceships for a few decades; our technical civilization is a few hundred years old... an advanced civilization millions of years old is as much beyond us as we are beyond a bush baby or a macaque.”

      Although any conjecture about such advanced civilizations is a matter of sheer speculation, one can still use the laws of physics to place upper and lower limits on these civilizations. In particular, now that the laws of quantum field theory, general relativity, thermodynamics, etc. are fairly well-established, physics can impose broad physical bounds which constrain the parameters of these civilizations.

      This question is no longer a matter of idle speculation. Soon, humanity may face an existential shock as the current list of a dozen Jupiter-sized extra-solar planets swells to hundreds of earth-sized planets, almost identical twins of our celestial homeland. This may usher in a new era in our relationship with the universe: we will never see the night sky in the same way ever again, realizing that scientists may eventually compile an encyclopedia identifying the precise co-ordinates of perhaps hundreds of earth-like planets.

      Today, every few weeks brings news of a new Jupiter-sized extra-solar planet being discovered, the latest being about 15 light years away orbiting around the star Gliese 876. The most spectacular of these findings was photographed by the Hubble Space Telescope, which captured breathtaking photos of a planet 450 light years away being sling-shot into space by a double-star system.

      But the best is yet to come. Early in the next decade, scientists will launch a new kind of telescope, the interferome try space telescope, which uses the interference of light beams to enhance the resolving power of telescopes.

      For example, the Space Interferometry Mission (SIM), to be launched early in the next decade, consists of multiple telescopes placed along a 30 foot structure. With an unprecedented resolution approaching the physical limits of optics, the SIM is so sensitive that it almost defies belief: orbiting the earth, it can detect the motion of a lantern being waved by an astronaut on Mars!

      The SIM, in turn, will pave the way for the Terrestrial Planet Finder, to be launched late in the next decade, which should identify even more earth-like planets. It will scan the brightest 1,000 stars within 50 light years of the earth and will focus on the 50 to 100 brightest planetary systems.

      All this, in turn, will stimulate an active effort to determine if any of them harbor life, perhaps some with civilizations more advanced than ours.

      Although it is impossible to predict the precise features of such advanced civilizations, their broad outlines can be analyzed using the laws of physics. No matter how many millions of years separate us from them, they still must obey the iron laws of physics, which are now advanced enough to explain everything from sub-atomic particles to the large-scale structure of the universe, through a staggering 43 orders of magnitude.
      Physics of Type I, II, and III Civilizations

      Specifically, we can rank civilizations by their energy consumption, using the following principles:

      1) The laws of thermodynamics. Even an advanced civilization is bound by the laws of thermodynamics, especially the Second Law, and can hence be ranked by the energy at their disposal.

      2) The laws of stable matter. Baryonic matter (e.g. based on protons and neutrons) tends to clump into three large groupings: planets, stars and galaxies. (This is a well-defined by product of stellar and galactic evolution, thermonuclear fusion, etc.) Thus, their energy will also be based on three distinct types, and this places upper limits on their rate of energy consumption.

      3) The laws of planetary evolution. Any advanced civilization must grow in energy consumption faster than the frequency of life-threatening catastrophes (e.g. meteor impacts, ice ages, supernovas, etc.). If they grow any slower, they are doomed to extinction. This places mathematical lower limits on the rate of growth of these civilizations.

      In a seminal paper published in 1964 in the Journal of Soviet Astronomy, Russian astrophysicist Nicolai Kardashev theorized that advanced civilizations must therefore be grouped according to three types: Type I, II, and III, which have mastered planetary, stellar and galactic forms of energy, respectively. He calculated that the energy consumption of these three types of civilization would be separated by a factor of many billions. But how long will it take to reach Type II and III status?
      Shorter than most realize.

      Berkeley astronomer Don Goldsmith reminds us that the earth receives about one billionth of the suns energy, and that humans utilize about one millionth of that. So we consume about one million billionth of the suns total energy. At present, our entire planetary energy production is about 10 billion billion ergs per second. But our energy growth is rising exponentially, and hence we can calculate how long it will take to rise to Type II or III status.

      Goldsmith says, “Look how far we have come in energy uses once we figured out how to manipulate energy, how to get fossil fuels really going, and how to create electrical power from hydropower, and so forth; we've come up in energy uses in a remarkable amount in just a couple of centuries compared to billions of years our planet has been here ... and this same sort of thing may apply to other civilizations.”

      Physicist Freeman Dyson of the Institute for Advanced Study estimates that, within 200 years or so, we should attain Type I status. In fact, growing at a modest rate of 1% per year, Kardashev estimated that it would take only 3,200 years to reach Type II status, and 5,800 years to reach Type III status. Living in a Type I,II, or III civilization

      For example, a Type I civilization is a truly planetary one, which has mastered most forms of planetary energy. Their energy output may be on the order of thousands to millions of times our current planetary output. Mark Twain once said, ”Everyone complains about the weather, but no one does anything about it.“ This may change with a Type I civilization, which has enough energy to modify the weather. They also have enough energy to alter the course of earthquakes, volcanoes, and build cities on their oceans.

      Currently, our energy output qualifies us for Type 0 status. We derive our energy not from harnessing global forces, but by burning dead plants (e.g. oil and coal). But already, we can see the seeds of a Type I civilization. We see the beginning of a planetary language (English), a planetary communication system (the Internet), a planetary economy (the forging of the European Union), and even the beginnings of a planetary culture (via mass media, TV, rock music, and Hollywood films).

      By definition, an advanced civilization must grow faster than the frequency of life-threatening catastrophes. Since large meteor and comet impacts take place once every few thousand years, a Type I civilization must master space travel to deflect space debris within that time frame, which should not be much of a problem. Ice ages may take place on a time scale of tens of thousands of years, so a Type I civilization must learn to modify the weather within that time frame.

      Artificial and internal catastrophes must also be negotiated. But the problem of global pollution is only a mortal threat for a Type 0 civilization; a Type I civilization has lived for several millennia as a planetary civilization, necessarily achieving ecological planetary balance. Internal problems like wars do pose a serious recurring threat, but they have thousands of years in which to solve racial, national, and sectarian conflicts.

      Eventually, after several thousand years, a Type I civilization will exhaust the power of a planet, and will derive their energy by consuming the entire output of their suns energy, or roughly a billion trillion trillion ergs per second.

      With their energy output comparable to that of a small star, they should be visible from space. Dyson has proposed that a Type II civilization may even build a gigantic sphere around their star to more efficiently utilize its total energy output. Even if they try to conceal their existence, they must, by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, emit waste heat. From outer space, their planet may glow like a Christmas tree ornament. Dyson has even proposed looking specifically for infrared emissions (rather than radio and TV) to identify these Type II civilizations.

      Perhaps the only serious threat to a Type II civilization would be a nearby supernova explosion, whose sudden eruption could scorch their planet in a withering blast of X-rays, killing all life forms. Thus, perhaps the most interesting civilization is a Type III civilization, for it is truly immortal. They have exhausted the power of a single star, and have reached for other star systems. No natural catastrophe known to science is capable of destroying a Type III civilization.

      Faced with a neighboring supernova, it would have several alternatives, such as altering the evolution of dying red giant star which is about to explode, or leaving this particular star system and terraforming a nearby planetary system.

      However, there are roadblocks to an emerging Type III civilization. Eventually, it bumps up against another iron law of physics, the theory of relativity. Dyson estimates that this may delay the transition to a Type III civilization by perhaps millions of years.

      But even with the light barrier, there are a number of ways of expanding at near-light velocities. For example, the ultimate measure of a rockets capability is measured by something called “specific impulse” (defined as the product of the thrust and the duration, measured in units of seconds). Chemical rockets can attain specific impulses of several hundred to several thousand seconds. Ion engines can attain specific impulses of tens of thousands of seconds. But to attain near-light speed velocity, one has to achieve specific impulse of about 30 million seconds, which is far beyond our current capability, but not that of a Type III civilization. A variety of propulsion systems would be available for sub-light speed probes (such as ram-jet fusion engines, photonic engines, etc.)
      How to Explore the Galaxy

      Because distances between stars are so vast, and the number of unsuitable, lifeless solar systems so large, a Type III civilization would be faced with the next question: what is the mathematically most efficient way of exploring the hundreds of billions of stars in the galaxy?

      In science fiction, the search for inhabitable worlds has been immortalized on TV by heroic captains boldly commanding a lone star ship, or as the murderous Borg, a Type III civilization which absorbs lower Type II civilization (such as the Federation). However, the most mathematically efficient method to explore space is far less glamorous: to send fleets of “Von Neumann probes” throughout the galaxy (named after John Von Neumann, who established the mathematical laws of self-replicating systems).

      A Von Neumann probe is a robot designed to reach distant star systems and create factories which will reproduce copies themselves by the thousands. A dead moon rather than a planet makes the ideal destination for Von Neumann probes, since they can easily land and take off from these moons, and also because these moons have no erosion. These probes would live off the land, using naturally occurring deposits of iron, nickel, etc. to create the raw ingredients to build a robot factory. They would create thousands of copies of themselves, which would then scatter and search for other star systems.

      Similar to a virus colonizing a body many times its size, eventually there would be a sphere of trillions of Von Neumann probes expanding in all directions, increasing at a fraction of the speed of light. In this fashion, even a galaxy 100,000 light years across may be completely analyzed within, say, a half million years.

      If a Von Neumann probe only finds evidence of primitive life (such as an unstable, savage Type 0 civilization) they might simply lie dormant on the moon, silently waiting for the Type 0 civilization to evolve into a stable Type I civilization. After waiting quietly for several millennia, they may be activated when the emerging Type I civilization is advanced enough to set up a lunar colony. Physicist Paul Davies of the University of Adelaide has even raised the possibility of a Von Neumann probe resting on our own moon, left over from a previous visitation in our system aeons ago.

      (If this sounds a bit familiar, that's because it was the basis of the film, 2001. Originally, Stanley Kubrick began the film with a series of scientists explaining how probes like these would be the most efficient method of exploring outer space. Unfortunately, at the last minute, Kubrick cut the opening segment from his film, and these monoliths became almost mystical entities)
      New Developments

      Since Kardashev gave the original ranking of civilizations, there have been many scientific developments which refine and extend his original analysis, such as recent developments in nanotechnology, biotechnology, quantum
    • MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4What IT department in their right mind would block Michio Kaku's personal web site? Unless maybe you work at a fundamentalist chuch or something ... weird.
      • AnarchyReigns, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I don't work for an IT department. I work for an insurance company. And the people running things around here have assholes shut tighter than Margaret Thatcher's...well...they're tight asses anyway :)
    • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Wait, they block a physics essay, but not Digg?

      Dude, your employers have some weird priorities.
      • AnarchyReigns, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1No kidding. We secretaries are allowed to check out the news, which Digg qualifies as according to our overlords, but pretty much nothing else. I haven't figured out a way around it. Any ideas anyone?
  • Junkyarddawg, on 10/10/2007, -34/+1Hippie-esque sci-fi crap.
    Seriously, the two best indicators of pseudo-science is mention of "the singularity" (when not talking about a black hole), or the mention of "type I, II, or III civilizations".

    Sheerest bullcrap.
    • JonnyTrombone, on 10/10/2007, -1/+19Michio Kaku is a world renowned physicist who helped to develop String-Theory. He's also very well known as a futurist and has written numerous books. This isn't pseudo-science, it's the branch of physics the man helped to create.
    • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Ever had a look at Moore's law, uh, 'Junkyarddawg'?

      Did you know that since it's original writing the pace of doubling has gone from every two years to every single year, in only forty years? The rate of exponential growth is growing exponentially.

      Everything is getting faster. And the speed at which it is getting faster is getting faster too. That, is the Singularity.
    • Junkyarddawg, on 10/10/2007, -12/+1@JonnyTrombone: I don't care if he's Mohatma Gandhi, he clearly knows *****-all about evolution and cosmology. Take some of the givens in the article; can you explain why "Any advanced civilization must grow in energy consumption faster than the frequency of life-threatening catastrophes"? No? Well, don't worry, because it's BULLCRAP.

      @Aticper: Yes, I have. That's how I know it isn't a "law". I also know statistics, which is why I know that extrapolating any curve into infinity will give bizarre results - and howcome I know that very few real curves actually go to infinity.
      • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Your right, you can't follow it all the way to infinity. But it'll go a damn long ways. Especially after nano-tech becomes more common.
        • fivestarsoul, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I think you're more frustrated because you don't understand a ***** word of what he wrote.
      • JonnyTrombone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yes, I can explain that. The idea is that any civilization must achieve a certain level of technological advancement faster than, say, a giant meteor can wipe out said civilization. Once they can deflect meteors, they are no longer in danger. Thus, they've grown in energy consumption (technology) faster than the frequency of life-threatening catastrophes.

        You're basically saying that the expert- nay, the creator- of a given scientific field knows nothing about that scientific field.
    • TrevorBelmont, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4This is speculative science. Is it your assertion that if it's beyond your understanding and not immediately verifiable, then it's "bull crap"? This isn't presented as proof of anything, and it makes sense to me. What I don't fallow is why breaking down civilizations into enumerated types is pseudo science?
      • Junkyarddawg, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1No, I'm saying that it's speculative NON science. There's nothing "science" about it except the faux terminology. It is as scientific as midi-chlorians.

        If you don't get why using arbitrary made-up criteria to break down made-up hypothetical civilizations into arbitrary made-up enumerated types, and proceeding from that to drawing conclusions about those made-up hypothetical civilizations, is pseudoscience... Well, then I fear there's very little I can say which would explain it to you.
        • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0If classifying things by arbirtary criteria is pseuoscience, then that puts the entire categorizing of life out the window, since you have to put the species into arbitrarily named categories.

          Oh, and there goes physics too, since you have to categorize the laws by arbitrary boundaries.
        • NorCal05, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2They never said any of it has been proven. Do you know what theories are?

          Go away, you are unwanted here
  • lutschdran, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1***** me... I just finished reading RC Wilsons "Spin", where exactly this type of von Neumann probe is sent out ... now I'm just waiting for the stars to disappear and time to start spinning out of control...
  • taintedzodiac, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Very often duped on here, but always a good read and something everyone should consider.
  • seraph82, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2Amazing! Check this excerpt out:

    "For example, a Type I civilization is a truly planetary one, which has mastered most forms of planetary energy. Their energy output may be on the order of thousands to millions of times our current planetary output. Mark Twain once said, ”Everyone complains about the weather, but no one does anything about it.“ This may change with a Type I civilization, which has enough energy to modify the weather. They also have enough energy to alter the course of earthquakes, volcanoes, and build cities on their oceans.

    Currently, our energy output qualifies us for Type 0 status. We derive our energy not from harnessing global forces, but by burning dead plants (e.g. oil and coal). But already, we can see the seeds of a Type I civilization. We see the beginning of a planetary language (English), a planetary communication system (the Internet), a planetary economy (the forging of the European Union), and even the beginnings of a planetary culture (via mass media, TV, rock music, and Hollywood films)."
  • Jmuduke, on 10/10/2007, -12/+5They're already here guys, the UFO phenomena is not a hoax. You've got to realize who stands to gain and who stands to lose from us reaching contact with a far advanced civilization. No doubt they have mastered zero point energy. This type of energy would effectively eliminate all dependence of fossil fuels. There are businesses that have trillions of dollars invested in the oil industry, they are not going to let go of that investment. Everyone who's interested in this should check out the Disclosure Project at www.disclosureproject.org to learn about the repercussions of contact with an advanced civilization. They're already here, they've been here for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Several nations have disclosed their UFO files to the public, the US is one of the few remaining industrialized countries that has yet to do this. The potential for free energy would reverse the damage being done by gas emissions, and would allow every person on earth to have power to their homes for FREE! Think about it :)
    • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Hmmmm...

      Yeah. I think if UFO's had been showing up for 'thousands of years', they'd either declare themselves, and leave some physical evidence behind, in the form of a landing crater, or a damaged spacecraft, or a discarded fuel booster, or they would hide themselves for study, and not be careless enough to be seen by some sleep-deprived air-force pilots or wandering yahoos.

      And they're definitely not going to be touching down in our corn fields.
    • MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Also, zero point energy is largely bunk. While the Casimir Effect is somewhat well understood, zero point energy proponents are more often than not full of crap.

      Of course, we'll have to see how this "Orbo" thing works out. But most explanations I've read seem to indicate that even if it does work, the principles behind it are consistent with our current notions of energy transfer.
    • abdrahman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"mastered zero point energy"

      zero point energy is, by definition, the minimum amount of energy that can exist in a system; you cannot go below it, and thus, you cannot use it. Saying that you can makes as much sense as saying,"we can achieve temperatures below absolute zero".
      • sandfish, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Why wouldn't we be able to use it? Thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So technically by using it we would be converting the energy, not removing it or making it "less" for lack of better words.
    • abdrahman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0"mastered zero point energy"

      zero point energy is, by definition, the minimum amount of energy that can exist in a system; you cannot go below it, and thus, you cannot use it. Saying that you can makes as much sense as saying,"we can achieve temperatures below absolute zero".
    • iceblademan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The relative strength of the Earth's own magnetosphere (not to mention the Sun's) makes zero point energy and zero gravity impossible. Even assuming that the planet on which these elusive creatures evolved had a weak magnetosphere thus enabling them to utilize these kinds of things, it still doesn't account for the fact that Earth's is strong enough to nullify any benefit they might reap from these kinds of energy transfers. As soon as they zoomed into our solar system (possibly even before according to the Laws of Thermodynamics), the Sun's magnetosphere and solar winds would buffet their spacecraft, rendering this kind of thing impossible.
  • richbradshaw, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13This is what digg is for!

    I emailed the author to invite him to take part in this discussion.
  • ViperCTW, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9My favorite Michio Kaku quote is from an astronomy magazine (can't remember which) in a story dealing with how the universe will end. They had a number of well known scientists give their take, and they all basically said life and the universe will expand, entropy will take over, and it'll all die out. When the author asked Michio, his reply was "If you're on a boat and it's sinking, just jump in a life craft and go to another boat! We'll just head over to a parallel universe." The next line was about Roger Penrose, when hearing that quote, groan and roll his eyes.

    You've got to love Michio's enthusiasm.
    • revenge7, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2The hard part is finding a parallel universe with the very similar laws of physics. For example, if we end up in a universe where the activation energy for reactions are incredibly low, we could explode. Literally.

      Oh, there also need to be other universes.
      • NorCal05, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1If we can jump universes, we are no longer limited to our physical forms
    • SimpleC, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I'm all for Michio's plan as long as this universe gets to be called Universe A.
  • Diffy, on 10/10/2007, -5/+7I for one accept and welcome of physicists overlords.
  • expat001, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7This is the guy that wrote a book that changed my life Hyperspace.

    I found him on AOL in 94' and sent him an e-mail with a question about the book and he e-mailed me back. That guy is alright!
  • crisvtc5, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Brings this Asimov story to mind: http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
  • Zipko, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Exponential growth is something that really messes up a lot of people's estimates on technology. It's easy to see how the growth of technology now is built on advances in the past, but people forget that concept when thinking about future growth. The common misconception is that we'll never achieve some technological breakthrough because it will take too long to research and develop. The flaw is that what might take 100 years to acomplish at today's pace will only take 5 years at the pace we advance at in a couple decades. So what people discount as being 100 years off is really only 25.
  • merien, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Isn't it a bit presumptuous to think that extraterrestrial life will lead to something we'll recognize as civilization? Human civilization has only been around for a fraction of the existence of life on earth and it is not certain it is here to stay. Life on other planets could have evolved in a whole different direction without any recognizable civilization.
    • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0What else could they possibly have evolved into
      • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Oh, I don't know...

        Octopi tend to get along pretty well. Maybe if there was no landmass on earth, and the predator/prey arms race had taken place in the sea, I can see them being the dominant species.

        There are a lot of potential dominant species on earth, given slightly different initial conditions.

        And that's ASSUMING that they're carbon based. When you get to crystalline structures or coherent radiation, or even just silicon based life, things get really interesting.

        Trust me, we are not the end all solution to the problem of intelligence life.
  • Xill, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8We have much potential if only we could overcome our lust for power and control.
    • ViperCTW, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6I tend to think our potential is BECAUSE of our lust for power and control. The greatest advances in human history are usually a direct result of war, greed, or as an attempt to gain more power.
      • godfly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2sux but i have to agree. we are hardwired with that lust ever since we started swimming in that primordial lake eons and eons ago. even the common bacteria today is still doing it.
      • Xill, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I believe this is subject to debate. I seriously think the great discoveries and advancement in human society are not a result of lust for power and control. They are the result of the wise and creative minds. Einstein, Newton are the perfect examples.
  • gordonf238, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0I have nothing more to add (or comment on) other than great read! I thoroughly enjoyed the article, especially the closing statement:

    “...All the labors of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and the whole temple of Mans achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins...” -Bertrand Russel
  • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Life Changing Article.
  • Ghoztt, on 10/10/2007, -10/+2UFO's are not a hoax. But Aliens are not here. Any civilization conquering social and technological problems wouldn't just sit by and not help out the enslaved on Earth. They would bring justice to our planet. The thing is, UFO's are here. But they are military aircraft being tested above populated areas and unpopulated areas for PSY-OPS. TO make you THINK there are Aliens here and that we will need our Government to fight the big bad aliens someday. Just like the war on terror. I personally believe that if there are other Aliens in the universe, that we are among the first. We are all growing up about the same time and relatively at the same technological level - with no way to effect each other till we get to the later technologies. But we won't discover those later technologies until we get rid of all this greed, murder, rape, lies and classisms. There are enough MORONS on this planet already that really believe that killing is the answer. God doesn't want Warhammer 40K. And I don't believe he'll give us the technology to make such a dark future a reality until we can learn something AS FREAKIN SIMPLE AS LOVE AND PEACE.
    • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2As far as being the first goes, you are aware that we are a third generation star, right?

      There have been at least two other perfectly good sets of stars that lived and died before our sun even ignited.
    • JonnyTrombone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Wait, God hates Warhammer 40k? What about D&D? Is that still cool?
    • NeoTEKK, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0The irony is that it ISN'T as 'freakin simple' as we thought.
    • Watchm3n, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Damn Hippie
    • BeyondGoodNEvil, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Peace means the end of evolution. It's the ***** wordly heaven that simple minds idealize. Christianity has the ***** "when the lamb lies down the lion" (what will the naturally carnivorous lion eat then?), and hippies have their "peace and love" (evolution depends on the more efficient, intelligent creatures displacing and gradually extincting the less efficient, less resourceful creatures).
  • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7It's a nice analysis, but I disagree on a few important points:

    First of all, I think it's a major mistake not to include computational cycles as a measure of a hypothetical civilization - the smarter they are, the faster their going to expand. A matrioshka brain is going to have a lot more thinking space to throw at a problem than an old fashioned dyson sphere, populated by old-fashioned organic life.

    As soon as we get smart enough to start building artificial intelligences that are smarter than we are, especially self-improving AIs, they are going to start building a world that's optimized for their own survival, not ours. If we design them right, they'll take care of us, but they'll be turning our solar system in clouds of distributed computers, feeding on solar radiation. If we're clever, we might even be able to change ourselves until we can live in such a state as well, completely free of any bodies whatever.

    Secondly, I strongly suspect that nano-technology will vastly accelerate the jump to a type II civilization - outer solar colonies and structures will literally be able to build themselves. As soon as nano-assemblers become mainstream, I suspect it'll basically be a land grab, with everybody and his brother launching Von Newman swarms to eat the outer planets and turn them into something valuable.

    I'd be very surprised if we don't end up with a Dyson sphere, at the very least.
    • NeoTEKK, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Dugg...simply because you have one wicked imagination.
      • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Afraid to say it, but that's my most conservative take on the future.
    • IneffibleMind, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Personally I am for people *becoming* integrated with nanotech forming a nanotech intelligence instead of strict AI. I would rather see (some at least) humans become self improving intelligences.

      And yeah, I can see a Dyson sphere in our future too.
      • anoriega, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The Omar offer a wide variety of biomodification canisters with full piezochem compatibility.
    • dview, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Would actually be cool to have a solar eclipse caused by a cloud of distributed computers.
  • RobbieF, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9mkaku@aol.com

    Somebody please give that man a gmail account. He deserves better.
  • plus1chromosome, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Michio Kaku is always an inspiring read :D
  • TheHayze, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Great read, as it's something that I have been pondering for years since I read Sagan's' Contact. However, this is the first I've really ever heard of Type I,II,III. Which is a very interesting concept, however it sounds a bit too futuristic. If that even makes sense; in a way, it sounds just a bit too good to be true. A civilization that consumes, and otherwise demands that much power is just awe inspiring. Indeed we are a Type 0 civilization, as we seem to have a love of violence, and hate. A shame, really as we have so much potential
  • mtooth, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I recall reading this a year or two ago on digg as well, but I'm glad to see it again as I had lost the link. This is definitely one of the most interesting articles on the topic I've ever read.

    It's difficult to make these kinds of theories/predictions accurately because our understanding of the universe is constantly changing with advances in science. But I think that given what we know today, the author makes some very intuitive conclusions.
  • joejoe628, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0This makes me want to switch majors to physics.
    • spencewah, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Then the head crushing computations will send you right back.
  • grubbydigger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Did it ever occur to you that we might be the most advanced civilization?
    • orbitz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yes, and that's a scary thought
    • dview, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Scary indeed. I'm personally hoping we'd be having a cup of tea with our alien overlords in the coming decade, and they let us borrow some of their superior technology to solve our little global warming problem.
    • BeyondGoodNEvil, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1No way in hell are we most advanced. Could you imagine a more intelligently run system than our current civilization? Easily, therefore it's only a matter of willpower to bring it about. We have the components of a much more futuristic civilization TODAY, but how fast we progress is entirely dependent on the speed at which the masses adopt the technology. If they are too dumb or sentimental-minded, lacking scientific/analytic/efficient minds, it will progress MUCH slower. Japan is advancing fast because their culture doesn't subsidize wasteful people, i.e. losers. If we are to advance more quickly to a future similar to that of sci-fi movies, it requires intelligent people who can adapt and learn faster than what we currently have. Computer software is developing nicely, and alternative energy methods are coming along at a fair pace, but fashion, housing and transportation still lags WAY behind, still stuck in the sentimental rut of status symbols.
  • DoMifer, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2Less Ron Paul and iPhone hype, you say? Nonsense! We need more of both! In fact, we need both at once...

    BINGO!

    http://digg.com/apple/Ron_Paul_has_iPhone_video
  • Graemebru, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1From this article we are a Type 0 Civillization

    That would imply that there are Type -1, -2 civillizations, No?

    If not then what kind of civillization was Earth 4000 years ago. Surely not the same level 0.

    And I hope we get to Civilization II faster then the estimated 200 years. I would like to live to see it.
    • SilkSteel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Given the current rate of advancement in medicine and biomedical engineering, human life expectancy is going to increase rather ridiculously in the coming years. Bionics, genetic engineering, nanotechnology, etc are paving the way for a several hundred-year life expectancy. Of course, you're still screwed if you get hit by a bus.
      • grhomepage, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0to someone who's daily highlights include watching jerry springer and eating corn dogs is it really worth wasting technology like this on them? with humans natural selection is almost gone. I might argue we're deevolving as fast as we are evolving.
    • 0zymandias, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Who says you *won't* be around in 200 years?
      • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0It won't be 200 years. More like 100 until we see the framework of a dyson sphere, by my guess.

        Oh, and I do intend to be around in 200 years, or if not me, at least my personality. As soon as possible, I intend to scan and dupliate the synaptic patterns of my brain, and run them in a computer simulation, in order to produce a backup of my mind. That way, if I happen to die in an unfortunate accident, another verion of my personality and identity still persists.

        It's called mind uploading. If you want to see all this happen, look into it. Expect to see it hit mainstream in 15-25 years, depending on how slow we are off the mark.
  • SilkSteel, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10So, "God" is just a type 5 civilization.. harnessing the power of the entire known universe.
    • dview, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Not really, has we would certainly notice such large energy comsumption.
      • BeyondGoodNEvil, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Not if it's a perfectly efficient system, which would make sense of the highest level of civilization.
  • geuisteses, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Oh yay, another Michio Kaku article. Lets see, glancing through... nothing new. This dude hasn't made a new argument in years. Every single time he writes an article or shows up on TV, he's talking about exactly the same things in regards to type I,II, and III civs. If you're a science nut like I am and read everything you can get, after a while you start hearing how guys like Kaku just keep regurgitating the same once-innovative ideas they had.
    • Gerfervonbob, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1When can we expect your new groundbreaking theory?
    • bonedead, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1He had his breakthrough, he's just trying to spread it now. Comedians do the same thing, use the same jokes over and over at every show. If you go to every one of their shows then yeah, you'll get bored.
  • dronebee, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Can a civilization then reverse entropy?
    "There is insufficient data for a meaningful answer"
  • PeteBeast, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1This is what an article should be. Intresting read, thanks.
  • philipl411, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Can anyone prove to me that there is a civilization beyond our planet?
    • TrevorBelmont, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3No. But please consider that in our average galaxy alone there are 400,000,000,000 stars and that ours is a part of many galaxies huddled together in a cluster, and that our cluster is part of a super cluster, of which there are many. Most of these stars have planets. Let's assume that each star has a conservative average of three planets. If we assume that 1 in a billion planets has what it takes to produce and sustain life (a number I chose arbitrarily) that's 12 billion life filled planets in our galaxy alone. If the odds are again 1 in a billion that on these life bearing planets will produce sentient, advanced, intelligent life then there would be 12 planets in our galaxy alone that would have civilized life forms. Considering the incomprehensible vastness of space, it would be a near mathematical impossibility that Earth would be unique in it's hosting of civilized life.
      • GUTTS, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Indeed I shall prove the existance of other civilizations aside from our own. First you must go to your fathers bedroom. Find the key to the locked cabinet with your fathers hunting rifles. Proceed on to step three by aiming said rifle into one ear and join the level III civilization by pulling the trigger.
  • NOCTech, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Contemplating the death of the sun, the philosopher Bertrand Russel once wrote perhaps the most depressing paragraph in the English language: “...All the labors of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and the whole temple of Mans achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins...”


    sometimes I wonder why I get out of bed....
    • Aticper, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Well, because your needed to make sure we can get off the planet before that happens.

      Nothing says we, as a species, have to sit here and wait to be blown to kingdom come...
  • NOCTech, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Contemplating the death of the sun, the philosopher Bertrand Russel once wrote perhaps the most depressing paragraph in the English language: “...All the labors of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and the whole temple of Mans achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins...”

    Sometimes I wonder why I bother to get out of bed
  • fLUx1337, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I've never done physics, so I'm not even gonna try and say anything smart, but I will say this -

    I am SAD humans only live for no more than 120yrs (at best!)......we are in the super early stages of forming our civilization, and nobody alive today will ever see much further...

    Yeh Yeh, we have our own lifes, be happy, but I would still love to live 10,000 years, just to see how things develop, see who the first "aliens" are, etc. etc. etc.

    tbh, people are looking for aliens now - we may not meet them for millions, or even billions of years!!

    We are all so small of earths existance, if we are 1 of 5bil people on earth today, we are 1 of a trillion trillion trillion trillion over the next million years...
    • mrshickadance9, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0but what IF you do live to see aliens one day
    • BeyondGoodNEvil, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Our descendents will have our genes, they'll have the same relative brain formations, the same eyes to see these things. It'd be nice to see it, but alas it's not meant to be. We can only continue building the foundation, continue improving humanity's survival ability through genetic improvement and technology. I'm certain as long as people with that mentality of wonderment at the universe continue to reproduce, "we" will very much see all of that. We will be gone in a 100 years but through children, we do in fact live on.
  • empirefalling, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1These million year old civilizations must have advanced....

    1. Without the development of their version of “America”.
    or
    2. Eliminated their version of “America” before it became a malignancy on their society.
    or
    3. Altered their version of “America” to fit the norms of their Global Society.

    Imagine a race of beings who live in harmony with each other, producing only what is needed and distributing that production evenly. There is no racism, poverty, crime, hunger, war or the need to exploit anyone or anything in exchange for currency. Each citizen of this society is responsible for those below him and above. These creatures would have never tasted the wrath of an uncontrollable culture as America because it would been thrown aside as a failed experiment. These creatures, if they have ventured this far must look upon our planet with disdain. Seeing the few in control of the many. Seeing a Mad Man destroy culture after culture and then attempt to keep his own from changing and joining the Global Society. Perhaps there is no million history to be written for the Human race until the Mad Man is chained and locked up?
    • AnarchyReigns, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"Each citizen of this society is responsible for those below him and above." -- how very anarchist of you :) Sadly, this will never happen until human beings shift their priorities away from religious dominance, political power, and economic wealth.
    • MrMcSir, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I suppose America and Capitalism are the causes of all of the worlds problem? Then I guess we should just hand over everything to the Chinese, what with their communism working so well
  • rob357, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Very interesting thanks!
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