What is Digg?150 Comments
- sindex, on 03/20/2008, -6/+47Sorry kid. This is science class. Let the grown ups talk.
- rand0mm0nkey, on 03/20/2008, -2/+31Flying Spaghetti Monster did it?
- griffeycom, on 03/20/2008, -2/+25New Study: The Moon is really made out of cheese.
- DanOnTheMoon, on 03/20/2008, -0/+17You fail at diplomacy.
- Klaatu14, on 03/20/2008, -3/+20Flawed science is still preferable to fairy tales.
- DanOnTheMoon, on 03/20/2008, -4/+21The bible isn't the first reference on my list when it comes to detailed chemical analysis. Fo sho.
- johnnysaucepn, on 03/20/2008, -1/+18Gen 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". While I can't doubt the clarity of the statement, for me it doesn't quite provide the thoroughness and detail that we're really looking for.
- nmcvicke, on 03/20/2008, -3/+14Translation: "I disagree with your assumption"
- AdonisEffect, on 03/20/2008, -1/+12Whoosh!
- noahhoward, on 03/20/2008, -3/+14"------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>
“. . .There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is STRETCHING OUT THE HEAVENS just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell, 23 the One who is reducing high officials to nothing, who has made the very judges of the earth as a mere unreality.” ISA 40:22-23
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Here it was not until the 1920s that Edwin Hubble observed the red-shift in the light from distant galaxies that proved that the fabric of the universe was, indeed, expanding. How did the Bible writer know? Wanna say he was just guessing?"
The author was not explaining red-shift, you are reading the passage with the knowledge we have now. The line is a primitive description, the dome of the stars are like a tent pitched above the flat earth, basically. God stretches the heavens over the earth just like you stretch the cloth of a tent over the ground.
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“. . .He is stretching out the north over the empty place, HANGING THE EARTH UPON NOTHING;” JOB 26:7
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So what farmer, fisherman or sheepherder could have conceived of this elegant scientific fact at a time when his contemporaries imagined that the earth was on the back of a giant elephant which was standing on four giant sea turtles? Don't want to admit it yet?"
Any farmer fisherman or sheepherder who knew that tents usually needed tent poles, there weren't any large tent poles about so it seemed like they were suspended beneath this tent by nothing.
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“. . .Where, now, is the way to where light resides? As for darkness, where, now, is its place, 20 That you should take it to its boundary And that you should understand the roadways to its house? .... 24 Where, now, is the way by which the light distributes itsel,...?” JOB 38:19-24
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So is it a particle or a wave? Do we know yet? Who could have known that it would be such a compelling question when the epitome of technology was yet the plow?"
I see a person who is curious about where the sun goes at night and where it comes from... I don't see a scientific hypothesis about the physical make-up of solar radiation. Again, you are reading (rather over-analyzing) with a modern understanding (brought to you by science by the way).
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“. . .Here people brought him a blind man, and they entreated him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, brought him outside the village, and, having spit upon his eyes, he laid his hands upon him and began to ask him: “Do you see anything?” 24 And the man looked up and began saying: “I see men, because I observe what seem to be trees, but they are walking about.” 25 Then he laid his hands again upon the man’s eyes, and the man saw clearly, and he was restored, and he was seeing everything distinctly. . .” MR 8:22-25
“32 From of old it has never been heard that anyone opened the eyes of one born blind. 33 If this [man] were not from God, he could do nothing at all.. . .” JOH 9:32-33
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Sure, a ridiculous story but who could it have written it? Who could have known that it is not enough to heal the eyes of a person who was BORN blind? Who could have known that, in order for the light impulses transmitted by the eye to the brain to result in a "distinct" image, the brain would have had to have separately *developed* the ability to make sense of the information?"
You ever play a game called grapevine? I personally believe Jesus or another person whose exploits were attributed to the carpenter, was versed in medicine and was quite good at it. I doubt very much that he restored sight to the blind, but he may have found ways to cure or soothe some other equally non-understood ailments and over time the stories got more and more spectacular.
Now I counter your 'proof' with an equally impressive tale:
"Imagine, if you can, the excitement that was caused by the birth of Paul Bunyan!
It took five giant storks, working overtime, to deliver him to his parents.
He cut his teeth on a peavy pole and grew so fast the after one week he had to wear his father's clothes. His lungs were so strong that he could empty a whole pond of frogs with one "holler".
Paul's clothing was so large they had to use wagon wheels for buttons. They used a lumber wagon drawn by a team of oxen as a baby carriage. When he outgrew this his parents put him on a raft off the coast of Maine.
It is said that rocking in his sleep he caused huge waves which sunk many ships.
He would eat forty bowls of porridge just to whet his appetite."
Sure, a ridiculous story but who could it have written it? Who could have known that a child with giantism would have had to wear his fathers clothes? Who could have known that it would take five storks to carry him? Who could have known that the alternating rocking of Pauls massive cradle would create tsunamis and freak waves?
Equally unbelievable tale and you can find some secret knowledge in it if you take it for truth. That doesn't mean Paul and Babe cleared the forests. - covertbadger, on 03/20/2008, -6/+16Theories don't get 'upgraded' to facts, since they are not related. Until you understand the terms you are using, you'd be wise to keep out of scientific conversation.
- noahhoward, on 03/20/2008, -3/+13There is a difference between being open minded and beleiveing *****. I was open minded to the evidence for creationism long enough for me to figure out it was wrong. If you can't bring me some new evidence that creationism is right then there is nothing for me to have an open mind about.
- chronichyjinx, on 03/20/2008, -1/+11Earth is really a big meatball.... Mmmmmm.....
- johnnysaucepn, on 03/20/2008, -1/+10What about the limited time of our children, or great-great-grandchildren? Do they not need to know anything about this either?
- covertbadger, on 03/20/2008, -2/+11No, elementop, I called him a cretin because he has a history of polluting threads like this with badly-researched religious agitprop and ignoring anyone who successfully debunks him. Cretin is absolutely the appropriate word.
- covertbadger, on 03/20/2008, -1/+10"We have plenty of reasons to believe in things that we cannot see. How about atoms, protons, electrons, et al?"
All of these things can be 'seen', cretin. We can measure them, manipulate them, and observe the results. Things don't have to be visible to the naked eye to be 'seen', as long as their presence or influence is measurable. So goes it for black holes. - nitsuj, on 03/20/2008, -2/+10"I have done my homework. The truth cannot be debunked."
Great. You've scanned your bible a couple of times and come on here thinking that it gives you some kind of credibility vs scientific study. I've got news for you: it doesn't. Your "truth" has be debunked time and time over. The bible is an interesting collection of ancient documents, largely myth. Nothing more.
As a source for scientific understanding it is a crock of *****. You are hopelessy off topic quoting it here. You are not impressing anybody. Please take your relgious rantings elsewhere. - trogdoor, on 03/20/2008, -3/+11Fundies out in full force today.
- mr.gates, on 03/20/2008, -3/+11Not believing in something for which there is zero evidence is not closed minded. As in all cases if any evidence is brought forth I will re-evaluate my opinions on the matter but until that time comes I do not believe in the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
- inactive, on 03/20/2008, -1/+8Thats funny, God didnt write the bible. Maybe you should stop reading the bible and stop listening to men.
- mr.gates, on 03/20/2008, -2/+9Theories are constructs that explain a series of observations or 'facts' theories explain observations. In the same way we have the 'fact' (I despise the term) and the theory of Gravity. Or the fact and the theory of evolution. Like covertbadger said shut up unless you know what you are talking about.
- nitsuj, on 03/20/2008, -1/+7Incorrect. Searched and found severely lacking.
- robotto, on 03/20/2008, -3/+9Dugg for chondrites measuring. Because it sounds so cool.
- bcd1024, on 03/20/2008, -4/+10Wait a second, the religion argument is based on chemistry and then references the Bible... Great!
Also, reading the entire article may help, instead of the first three lines, and then deciding your point of view is obviously strengthened by science. - MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+7I don't base the validity of questions on anything. I base the validity of answers on the background of who is telling me the "truth." Modern scientists have more credibility than their long-dead counterparts from thousands of years ago. If you can;t figure out why, well, sorry for your ignorance.
t CrazedLeper: No, arrogance is assuming you already have all the answers. I don't know how the universe formed. You're claiming you do. - MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+7I've already established my position MORE than clearly, and based on the fact that that line up there is still at +1 as of my posting this in spite of your having seen it, it's easily enough understood. However, since you've shown yourself to be an idiot with no scientific background, let me explain it in the simplest detail. If a blind guy tells me the sky is blue, without my having seen it, I would absolutely doubt him IN SPITE OF HIS ULTIMATELY BEING CORRECT, because he has no way of verifying it for himself. Relative to modern scientists, these primitives were blind. Their tools were poor and their observations based on a limited grasp of what was going on around them. To say that they knew the universe was expanding based on a passage in Genesis is, therefore, RIDICULOUS.
There is NO hypocrisy anywhere in there. There is NOTHING you can say to show otherwise. - sjbdallas, on 03/20/2008, -0/+6Indeed. If a guy were able to maintain a balance of chondrites and midichlorians in his system, and happened to be hit with a tachyeon, He just might become superhuman.
- MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+7If you don't "believe" that a species can mutate into another species then you're willfully ignorant. Thanks for holding society and science back.
- mnky9800n, on 03/20/2008, -1/+7Like an hour ago from my calculations. Damn implanted memories.
- MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -2/+7Ever hear the one about a blind pig finding an acorn? I trust experts. Understanding universal origins involves modern scientific techniques, not ancient religious parables. If you look to Genesis for scientific explanations I have a bridge you might be interested in.
- inactive, on 03/20/2008, -1/+6Wrong. Those implanted memories were actually part of new implanted memories from 1 hour ago.
- mirunit, on 03/20/2008, -2/+7"Long Standing" since 1964. I assume a new origin of the universe will be discovered in the next 100 years.
- Pyromite78, on 03/20/2008, -2/+7The bible was written by people who thought the world was flat.
- noahhoward, on 03/20/2008, -3/+8Thankfully it's all dud munition.
- Pyromite78, on 03/20/2008, -0/+542
- MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+6Only if you accept that those were the only people living on the earth, and since they thought the whole of the world was their continent, I'm inclined to distrust their "history." This is of course excluding evidence pointing to humans crossing to North America from Russia, sub-Saharan African civilization, etc. You're really grasping at straws here.
- MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+6I haven't misrepresented anything. I've pointed to interpretations of the text in question that are every bit as legitimate as your deeply, deeply flawed ones. In trying to say that the Bible contains much historical truth, you are misrepresenting established, universally-understood earth history.
- sjbdallas, on 03/20/2008, -1/+6Nor has it been witnessed.
- spawnfree, on 03/20/2008, -2/+7Thanks dude, i love the way religious thought tries to keep up with rationality.
it reminds me of a friend i used to have who was a pathological liar. - MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+6"Questions" and "answers" aren't the same thing. You're free to QUESTION anything you want, since that's how progress is made. You shouldn't be free to spout off incorrect ANSWERS as the truth. So how about you try to figure out what you're challenging and get back to me when you're ready? Alternatively, go away and let the grown-ups talk.
- lowhauler, on 03/20/2008, -1/+5Shows what you know about science.
- MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+5Hahahaha, YES. Okay. Let's--by your own logic, mind--extend that allegory to encompass the Genesis creation myth. Whoops! You painted yourself into a corner!
It's one or the other. You don't get to pick and choose which parts of your holy book are pretty, evocative wordplay and which are historical text. The whole document is either correct or flawed (albeit not without redeeming value). Decide which. - MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -2/+6Oh, you mean like the people who take passages out of their context (written by primitives) to show that the world is only a few thousand years old? Funny how history seems to repeat itself in that regard, now that you mention it.
- MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+5Once again, questions and answers aren't the same thing. So, no, I'm not contradicting myself.
- MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+5If my stance were weak you'd have something besides a definition to throw at it. If you didn't passionately believe any of this you wouldn't be defending the position so desperately even though you're so obviously wrong. And, yes, thank you, based on the facts I couldn't be anything other than right. :)
- MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+5It's absolutely being taken out of context since you're assuming that those primitives had absolute knowledge of the universe around them--and, unfortunately, the bible wasn't written with that knowledge. It's obvious to anyone who's read it that their interpretation of the world around them was wrong.
Oh, and learn how to use the right reply button, fundie. - MidnightRealism, on 03/20/2008, -1/+5My interpretations do fit very nicely. Alternatively, they don't, but neither does creationism. It's one or the other, as has already been stated.
- MacEnvy, on 03/20/2008, -0/+4Hypothesis:
If the moon was in a different orbit, or perhaps not in orbit around the Earth at all, life may have evolved differently to better accommodate the resulting climatological changes.
Your point is invalidated by the anthropic principle. Look it up. - sjbdallas, on 03/20/2008, -1/+5Not digging you down as I appreciate your hard work but realistically, similar metaphors for describing events or things does make those things the same, nor does it presume omnipotence. If the Koran or whatever Xenu has for a book described what we've learn about our universe with similar metaphors would you suddenly start believing it?
- Pyromite78, on 03/20/2008, -3/+7Its people like you that are ***** up this country.. Stem Cell research is evil, science is evil, abortion is evil, basically everything is evil because you said God told you so.. well why should I believe you? I want to hear god tell me himself.. hey guess what God told me to tell you that the Internet is evil and you're going to hell for using it. It's one track minded morons like you that are ruining this world for the rest of us.. did you ever stop to think that maybe we want to know WHY because God made us that way? Let me explain something to you... and hopefully you'll be able to pick up and understand it but if not I'll try and go slow..
its common knowledge that God is often times referred to as "the Father" because according to popular religion he created everything.. going with that think about this.. children usually will tend to idolize their parents while growing up.. they want to be like them, they want to go to work with them and almost 98% of the time when a child is grown, they have most of the attributes of their parents such as work ethic, attitude, mannerism, etc.. ok.. here's the scary part... did you ever stop to think that the reason why we want to know why the universe is, how it all got created, how to manipulate our universe and life is because maybe just maybe subconsciously we are trying to be like our father aka God. Maybe that is the meaning of life.. to learn as much as you can about this universe we have so maybe one day we can create our own universe or mold this one as we want it.. does it not say somewhere in the bible that God gave us this world for us to live in and make it our own? I haven't read it cover to cover but I'm sure its in there somewhere. My point is.. maybe you're wrong.. maybe God wants us to be like him.. I refuse to believe in any god that wants me to hate other people for their choice in life and not want to constantly strive to learn as much as I can about this wonderful gift he gave me (the universe and life). I cannot stand ignorant religious right bible beating sociopaths. -
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