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- Sealab2021, on 10/12/2007, -5/+39Pretend you are a bungee jumper, as you fall the cord stretches out. When you reach the limit of the cord it retracts bringing you back up. This is what every one thought the universe should do. The big bang is like jumping and as the universe reaches the limits of gravity, everything will come back to together. What has happened is that instead of slowing, the universe has sped up, as if the cord has been cut. There only way to explain this speeding up is that there is another unseen force acting on the universe, dark energy. They are trying to figure out what dark energy is. I am not sure about any piratical implications for dark energy, the thing is that we don't know its properties or what it is capable of.
I have my own little theory though, what if there is something beyond our universe. Many people think that the universe if infinite, but what if we are in a giant shoe box? What if there is a wall? It makes sense, our universe is speeding up just like if you drop something. The "wall" or edge of the universe has a pull on it that is making the universe accelerate just like the earth makes and object fall faster the longer its falling.
Thats just my two cents though... - KlayBorg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18I Agree with your first paragraph, Sealab, but your second is a bit... questionable. Still you get a dig for the explanation.
- t4k3n, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17you are all thinking of size from a human point of view....
what if this universe was just a spec of dust on a much bigger universe...
i don't think we as a race of people can really understand size.... atoms to super massive stars.... solar systems to galaxies.. - SultanTravi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12The whole point is that we can see its effects.
- TroubleInMind, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I remember reading a couple weeks ago that the main data supporting the "speed up" hasn't been replicated per se.
While other experiments are designed to try to confirm or deny this, one reason the bandwagon of dark matter believers has good attendance is because unless there is dark matter, some of the core laws of physics itself fall into doubt.
So either the data is wrong, core physics is wrong, or there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster at the edge of the universe that has some pull to it. Same deal, I think. If some ***** is going on that you can't explain with your current rules, rather than question your rules, make up a Flying Spaghetti Monster and place the attribution. - swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I can not wait for somebody to explain this in plain english. what are the implications???????
- KlayBorg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"but something in the article made me wonder if there wasn't more than one universe."
See: Imagining the tenth dimension
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4280922161474483340&q=imagining+the+tenth+dimension - GRTWHT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Actually, 'dark energy' or 'dark matter' was created as an explanation for why the universe can function the way it does, despite the fact that current physics says it can't (if the numbers don't add up, add some more numbers).
I see it as an excuse to continue to believe that physics as we currently know and accept it is correct. - SultanTravi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Sealab, no good scientist thinks the universe is infinite in size.
As klayborg said: 1st paragraph, good. 2nd paragraph, not so much. - eerbin13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Aether was the proposed medium for all electromagnetic radiation, particles so small that they can pass right through matter and whose fluid-like turbulence we percieve as the electromagnetic spectrum, the cause of gravity itself, until the Michelson-Morley experiment and Einsteins theory of relativity and of a curved space time in which the Earth sits. Some of the greatest minds of the world were aether physicists, including Nikola Tesla, and the idea itself stretches back to the Greek philosophers of old. I say that this unexplainable energy that is speeding up the universe could be cause for reexamining the theories of aether. Some interesting and certainly extraordinary things can be said about aether. Digg me down if you must.
- Spanktacular, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Sealab2021, "piratical implications for dark energy"
What does dark energy have to do with pirates? ;) - dimitrisokolov, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7
If it's invisible and undetectable, then we cannot say for sure that it exists. - rockforever, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Which is why we call it "dark" energy. Because we have yet to explain it. As it said in the article the word dark is more symbolic.
- littlebylittle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's "invisible and undetectable," yet we know it's there. How smart do we really think we are according to current "Science?"
There are a lot of missing pieces in our "vast knowledge," to say the least. - modelcadet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ok... I'm going to get buried for this... but it's 5:24 AM on the east coast, and I'm officially at stupid o'clock.
Correlation does not equal causation. So... just because gravity and mass correlate doesn't mean some particle causes gravity.
I don't even know if we should consider gravity a force... when it could just be a dimensional construct. I know that's 'out there.'
-End cryptic musings- - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7omg It's the devil!
Run!
Where's my dildo!? - rockforever, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4FTA- "which is why we wouldn’t be able to see it, and it can rarely interact even with protons and neutrons, which is why trillions of these particles might be passing through you every second without your knowing it."
Sounds like the Force. - mrcan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Dark energy will be found, may be something that we already know about, may be something new, but to call it undetectable is stupid, we see its effects already. We just use "Dark" to hold the place for the real name.
- anonym41414, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's out "out there." That's general relativity in a nutshell.
The problem is that if you accept quantum physics as correct, then general relativity is incorrect. And if you accept general relativity, then quantum physics is incorrect. The two mathematical frameworks are incompatible at the same scale, even though each produces what appear to be totally consistent and correct results at different scales.
But the idea that a given mathematical model just STOPS WORKING at a certain point doesn't make physicists happy. The idea that TWO models would each independently just stop working makes them even less happy. So they've spent the past several years trying to reconcile quantum physics (which works well at its scale) and general relativity (which works well at its scale) to figure out whether one or the other is correct, or one is just an approximation of the other, or both are just approximations of something entirely different.
General relativity is solid science, even if it turns out to be an incorrect model. It's tough to poke holes in general relativity. But quantum physics is spongy, full of room for exceptions. Nonbaryonic matter is an example of one such proposed exception. The universe seems to be packed wall-to-wall with stuff that doesn't interact with normal matter or electromagnetic energy. Well okay, then, let's imagine a class of matter that works within the rules of quantum physics but that conforms to a different set of interactions. Quantum physics allows that, even encourages it. It's how we came up with the W and Z bosons (which, admittedly, have indeterminate experimental status right now). - Wonderkind, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3We as humans think we're pretty smart, and have a lot of stuff figured out. All very scientifically, mind you.
To me, this topic is so interesting because it points out how little we know and how much more there remains to know.
The more we learn, the more we see that we know so little.
Imagine if you could peer 500 years into the future to see what we will know then about matter, energy and the universe as we understand it through math and theory, (assuming we don't kill ourselves first).
I'm boggled. - SteelChicken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3all that Zero point energy is ***** propagated by con-men trying to pull one over people.
until its repeatable in a labratory setting, its all *****. go home, put on your tin hat and listen to UFO signals on your ham radio. - origclubsoda, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4If its undetectable, how do we know it exists?
- Jadou, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Just like the wind.
- chjb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ zeromancer
Dark matter is expected to be non-interacting only necessarily through electromagnetism. Hence it will not interact with light, and will be "dark". It could still interact through, for example, the weak force. In this case the dark matter particles are called WIMPs, or "Weakly Interacting Massive Particles". It is through these interactions that we hope to observe the production of dark matter particles in the coming generation of particle colliders.
Moreover, even if dark matter is completely non-interacting through standard model forces, it will couple to gravity, and so we can see its gravitational effects (indeed, this is how it was predicted). Recent evidence from the Bullet Cluster collision has provided a very nice picture of dark matter and its gravitational effects through gravitational lensing. You can read more about this if you google "bullet cluster" and "dark matter". - Ngai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Sealab2021
You may be right but look at this...
http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/1031/neurongalaxy12aa3.jpg
Like you said.. the universe is expanding ever so fast... Neurons in our brain develop very quickly for every memory and function that we have.... According to this picture... we live inside of 1 neuron. Just 1, and to think that about a billion neurons are in our head.... whats to say their aren't more "universes" out there. Of course this is just theory and this picture can very well relate to the string theory and the big bang and the 10th dimension. Put it all together and all you get is just a continuous endless cycle of life, for all eternity. - jaedn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I find this really funny, Although all these universe theory's sound really cool.... Dark Energy, Dark Matter, The Infinitely Expanding Universe, An invisible undetectable force, The Multiverse Theory... all we are really doing is an intellectual rain dance. Just because we can give something a name, doesn't mean we have the slightest clue how it works.
And if you want an easy explanation of dark matter, think of it this way.
- With our Current understanding of Gravity, Mass and Physics, Planets, Stars and the Universe. The way planets orbit one another doesn't make sense because there is not enough matter to stop things from spinning out of control.
- In fact there is only about 20% of the matter required in everything in the universe... Which means, that 80% of the stuff holding the universe together is stuff that we can't even see. And that my friends is what we call dark matter. - TransmitThis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Nice read - Thanks
Got me thinking now . . . - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I guess people just don't get the Fermat reference. I would elucidate, but this comment box is too small.
- aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Brane? What is Brane? See if you can get the reference.
- Jadou, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"But is our luck about to run out? Smoot’s and Perlmutter’s work is part of a revolution that has forced their colleagues to confront a universe wholly unlike any they have ever known, one that is made of only 4 percent of the kind of matter we have always assumed it to be — "
Is it exactly 4 percent? I would expect it to be something more like 3.14159 percent.
If it is exactly 4 percent then we could be out of luck, especially in Japan.
http://japanese.about.com/blqow7.htm - elamr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2M-Theory (formerly string theory) proposed by Ed Witten might explain dark matter. It is the idea that the universe exists on a brane adjacent to many other branes (alternate universes). perhaps dark matter is the substance of that brane.
note: like string theory, m-theory is not complete and almost completely hated on by the rest of the sceintific community. - zeromancer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Dark energy is whatever it is that’s making the expansion of the universe accelerate, but, for instance, does it change over time and space? If so, then cosmologists have a name for it: quintessence."
Nothing kills a raid faster than no one having their aqual/eternal quintessence. - sourDee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Let me get this straight: their current model of the universe is broken, and instead of trying to come up with a new one, they create an invisible matter called 'dark energy,' whose mystical, magical, as-of-yet-unexplainable properties patch up the old theory perfectly?
Does this sound like bad science to anyone else? = - tonton2012, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Dark Energy
- subgeniusd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are sooooo 20th century. Both incomplete with "dark energy" a philosophical attempt to magically fill in the blanks of a theory constructed upon false premises. Check this out:
http://www.holoscience.com/
Prepare to be astonished. - tivo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1im not too savvy on this topic, but i was thinking, "what travels in the opposite direction of gravity?" the only thing i could think of is the infinitesimal amount of light, radiation, etc (the whole electromagnetic spectrum, invisible and visible) given off by stars. "light pressure" or "radiation pressure" (as i read off wikipedia) can apply a pressure to objects such as asteroids, making them spin faster, and is used in the proposed idea of solar sails for long range travel. why not have the same affect on larger bodies.
- IamZed, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3At close range, mater attracts matter. At great range, it repels it. No external force is involved.
Next show at 11:00 - ernieoporto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The real question is, what is beyond that finite space.
A metauniverse full of universes? Next to other metauniverses like it? - Protac, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Just because we can't see something, doesn't mean its not there. We couldn't see atoms when they were discovered, but they are still real.
- origclubsoda, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"The difference is we can measure it, observe its effects, test it, extrapolate and test, refine. "
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http://www.diet-article.com - tlehman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1br549 said: "They refused to believe God created (Genesis 1) because He is invisible and
undetectable (to them) so they had to search for a way to explain creation.
There isn't enough mass to fit there guess as to how it happened, so they
"invented" something that is invisible and undetectable that they could have
faith in and wouldn't have to answer to after death."
People believe a god created the universe based on a story, the scientists are sticking to what we know, and that requires that we label assimilate this unknown force into our existing schema of physics. There is no "faith" in dark matter, there is an educated _hypothesis_ that it _may_ exist, if not, we will revise the theory, if so, then we can proceed in trying to understand.
The God Hypothesis is satisfactory until you're about 9 years old and you start to realize the power of logic, and the basic reality that there is nothing for a being after it dies. - aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1We don't know if it exists. It is a convenient kludge to "fix" the current theories and models after discovering that humanity does not have a bloody clue about how the universe works because none of our models fit the universe.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2The difference is we can measure it, observe its effects, test it, extrapolate and test, refine. We can't see quarks but we can slap them together and verify they exist by the collisions. That is far different from religion which isn't testable. Get your political posturing out of here.
- ryannerd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The practicable use of Dark Energy is kind of like the direct use of Gravitational Energy. We know that this is a result of mass; the larger the mass the more gravity there is, but directly harnessing this energy has not yet been done. There are some applications of gravity such as watermills, or using the gravity of the moon to "sling shot" satellites into space. But a direct method of "plugging into" gravity has not been invented yet. Dark Energy is much the same way right now. In fact Dark Energy is only a theory, so nothing may come of it at all, or it may even be replaced with a different theory.
- aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I wish I could digg you up more than once. Inventing undetectable things like Dark Energy and Dark Matter are a cop out. The scientific community should just admit that they do not have a clue about how the universe works and go back to the proverbial drawing board to come up with models for the universe that actually work.
- tlehman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1we don't.
we infer its existence, based on the properties of things that we are sure exist (baryonic matter) -
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