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- inactive, on 03/22/2008, -9/+124Now I think we're being a bit overly harsh, here. Sure, it has its faults, but I think Expelled! raises some interesting points - namely, that apparently religious people think it's acceptable to lie and warp the truth to prove their point.
- carpespasm, on 03/22/2008, -3/+68I never pegged Ben Stein as an anti-evolution kind of guy.
- Suricou, on 03/22/2008, -1/+52I think it also demonstrates the power of the confirmation bias: People who already believe evolution to be a dangerous and immoral threat to Christianity will be easy to convince that it inevitably leads to genocide, because this supports their existing view.
- myxomatosis4, on 03/22/2008, -2/+51better summary: The Bad Astronomer points out that the Expelled movie's official website states that evolution leads to atheism leads to Holocaust.
hmm. people have gotten in trouble for conflating evolution and the Holocaust before.... http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/4877_52.htm - farslayer9, on 03/22/2008, -4/+52Phil Plait lays it out regarding the joke that is Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. Unfortunately, it seems the only intelligence not allowed is that of the people who produced this drek.
- Myonosken, on 03/22/2008, -2/+49That's the worst summary that I've ever seen hit the front page.
- ggnictee, on 03/22/2008, -11/+50(edit: sorry this is so long.)
seems to me that Godwin's Law should take effect. So the argument is over now, right?
Look guys (by guys i mean my fellow Christians who are fighting this silly fight) God is a big boy. Evolution can't hurt him ...well not my God at least. My God is all powerful and wise. and, frankly, smart enough to come up with a fancy scheme like evolution. Are you suggesting God isn't smart enough to make evolution?
Just tell my how it would diminish God if evolution were real? Would it make him less powerful? or less real? no.
Does it contradict the Bible? well the Jews (remember they wrote Genesis) don't believe that the two stories in Genesis are literally true. They believe they are stories. One to show God's love and one to show God's power. So evolution doesn't contradict the bible: it contradicts a tortured interpretation of the King James version (but not all of the King James versions.)
What you're doing is hurting the church. It makes Christians look ignorant and drives people away from church. This is the Opposite of what we are supposed to do. Church should be a place of peace and acceptance. No, I don't care how right you are. No, I don't care how mean they were to you. No, I don't care if they don't believe what they should. And I don't care how much evidence you have to prove your point. Shouting is not loving. So stop. You're hurting the church and driving people away instead of bringing them in. Anything that drives people away from church is wrong. (and here's a fun fact (according to surveys) the number 1 reason given for not attending church? An argument with someone in the church. sooo science isn't driving people from God, we are. Every time you yell, someone leaves the church. It's almost as if the only people who would be hurt by an end to this fight are politicians. ...weird)
So stop.
just be kind, be patient, be Christian. Everything else is unimportant. Everything. - mrgeekguy, on 03/22/2008, -1/+37Nova: Intelligent Design on Trail
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-404729062 ... - eviltandem, on 03/22/2008, -4/+36This, of course, makes perfect sense. While we all know that the Vatican signed treaties with both Nazi Germany and Italy, we all *really* know this was because Nazi's were atheists. Only atheists would agree to sign treaties with the most organized christian organization on earth, in exchange for giving the vatican controls over their schools.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense... - dagnome1984, on 03/22/2008, -3/+32Posted on the expelled website is the following garbage.
"*SPOILER!! […]
Many scenes are centered around the Berlin Wall, and Ben Stein being Jewish actually visits many death camps and death showers. In fact, Nazi Germany is the thread that ties everything in the movie together. Evolution leads to atheism leads to eugenics leads to Holocaust and Nazi Germany." - Zarokima, on 03/22/2008, -4/+32Give some evidence contrary to evolution. What's that? You can't? Then shut up and do some goddamn research. We already have scores of evidence proving evolution, which is how it got to be a theory. All of this also serves as evidence against creationism (not religion in general, but that's a topic for another time). So basically calling evolution fiction is like picking up a stick to start a fight with a Roman legion: there is no possible way you can win this no matter how hard you fight and believe you can win.
- vervalsing, on 03/22/2008, -1/+29He thinks Nixon was framed.
I'm beginning to see a pattern... - laserblazer, on 03/22/2008, -8/+34Ben Stein sucks balls. He defends Nixon to this day. I imagine he's a rather dim bulb behind that monotone mumbling.
- inactive, on 03/22/2008, -7/+32As a Jewish person myself (and an pastafarian), the parallel to the Holocaust greatly offends me
- vertinox, on 03/22/2008, -1/+25Oddly enough, Hitler nor most of his Nazi's were atheists. In fact they were simply playing on the long term anti-Semite feelings many Germans had since the middle ages which is a purely Christian phenomenon. When the Pope declared a crusade in 1096 the first thing the German princes and peasants did was start massacring the Jews and many of their armies never even left Germany to go to the holy lands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Crusade%2C_109 ...
This culture pretty much lasted all the way to WWII and had nothing to do with atheism. In fact, famous people like Martin Luther who started the Protestant Reformation in the 1500s wrote many papers on the "evil of Jews"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther#Luther_ ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judensau
So saying that atheism had anything to do with the holocaust is bunk... Its pretty much the culmination of 1000 years of religious intolerance by Christians against the Jews. - TenebrousX, on 03/22/2008, -5/+28The hostility towards evolution from theists stems from the fact that the theory offers an explanation for the origin of species that doesn't require magic.
- CogitatorX, on 03/22/2008, -2/+25One is a view the other is fact. Teach creationism in religion classes where it beliongs. The Chinese and the Indians aren't wasting money and time teaching fantasy crap like ID. That's why American kids are going to work for their kids someday.
- Fafnir43, on 03/22/2008, -1/+23So tell me, how often does your faith in gravity "waver"? Or quantum theory? Or relativity? Or fluid dynamics? Or really any respected area of science other than evolution?
If you show me a rabbit skeleton from the Cretaceous period, then congratulations - you've disproved evolution. If you show me /any/ actual evidence, I'll consider it and maybe change my viewpoint. If you're just going to mumble vaguely about unwavering faith being bad, then all I hear is blah blah blah. - RobotBuddha, on 03/22/2008, -1/+22"Just tell my how it would diminish God if evolution were real?"
Without evolution you can have a god in the equation, but you don't 'require' one to explain everything. God's suddenly changed from an entity by which no life could exist, to something which possibly started the big bang. - Barbrady, on 03/22/2008, -1/+22movie is connects?
- laserblazer, on 03/22/2008, -4/+24Imagine how we Irish feel. The Brits killed untold tens of millions of us and nobody blinks at making drunken Irish jokes. Make a single Jew joke and the room goes quiet.
- TheKappa, on 03/22/2008, -2/+24Ben Stein is a ***** moron. He should have kept his money and bought himself a clue.
- nbanman, on 03/22/2008, -1/+20This is exactly the kind of "social Darwinism" that gives evolutionary Darwinism a bad name. The fallacy is thinking that natural selection has some kind of moral element to it. The product of evolution is something best able to survive and propagate itself. All kinds of evil and awful ideas are very good at surviving and propagating. One of the most persistent and tragic ideas of human history, for example, is that "people of my tribe are better and more important than people of another tribe."
- Fafnir43, on 03/22/2008, -4/+23Evolution is a fact. It can't be "blamed" for anything, any more than a hammer can be blamed if it is used in a murder. The Holocaust was caused by people who took this scientific fact and tried to extrapolate moral principles from it - not to mention people like Nietzsche who were advancing the concept of the Ubermensch long before Darwin.
- mecenday, on 03/22/2008, -2/+20Yeah, but what if you don't believe in Godwin?
- enicholas, on 03/22/2008, -3/+21Correction: the Rapture is a stupid fairytale. It will not happen on anyone's timing, including the invisible man in the sky.
- ggnictee, on 03/22/2008, -1/+18then you're an athiestwin?
- JustJoe4Life, on 03/22/2008, -1/+18*Both* views? There aren't two beliefs as to how the world works, there are an infinite amount, if we treat them all as equal they will all need to be taught in classrooms. Howvever, If we choose what is taught based on the presence of supporting evidence, then there's only one.
- Edrick, on 03/22/2008, -1/+18If evolution is true and Genesis just a story, then Adam and Eve didn't exist, therefore there is no original sin, therefore there was nothing for Jesus to die for, therefore the basis of Christianity is null and void.
That's what scares many Christians. - inactive, on 03/22/2008, -6/+22the creationist keep shooting themselves in the foot everytime they try to bash on science.
- Disgod, on 03/22/2008, -1/+17How is Darwinism eugenics? The theory of evolution makes no claim that one evolutionary variation is inheritly good or evil, just that if one of the variations allows the creature to live better or longer it will be more likely to breed and propagate that variation. People who use his theory to do evil are the ones who are evil. The theory isn't. Eugenics is a social construction that uses the theory of evolution to help condone the destruction of races and the handicapped.
- TheZorch, on 03/22/2008, -4/+20Which in turn proves that Christianity in America is a threat to all of humanity. All its takes is one wack job to get into office, a wack job who's worse than Bush is, and we'll be in dire straights. A agree with what that Iranian General said to the media, I truly do believe that there are Christians in this country who would if they could cause WWIII to happen to accelerate the coming of the so-called Rapture. An event they proclaim left and right is coming soon but is never ONCE mentioned in the Bible.
- CogitatorX, on 03/22/2008, -2/+17Alex Jones is a lunatic half-wit that needs medicated. If you believe anything Jones says you need to learn some critical thinking skills.
- Dumbledorito, on 03/22/2008, -1/+16Then if your logic holds, thank you for promoting Athiesm.
- Gerbil_Juice, on 03/22/2008, -0/+15Why would "liberals and evolutionists" want to bring about WWIII? Find one of those countless articles for me, please.
- Fafnir43, on 03/22/2008, -1/+16Tell me shockoj7, if you got back from work one day and found your house ransacked and all your valuables gone, what would you conclude? That you'd been burgled? That a miniature black hole has opened up in your living room? Or that since no-one was around when it happened, we may never truly know? Right now it sounds like you'd go for the latter.
Listen to yourself. Just because there were no human observers present twenty thousand years ago doesn't mean we can't look at the evidence and come to a strong, well-reasoned conclusion. That conclusion is evolution.
*NOTE: This really shouldn't be necessary, but since I have some degree of experience with hysterical evangelicals: the above was not intended as a threat of robbery, only as an enlightening metaphor. If you do not have a persecution complex, please disregard this note and have a nice day.* - Suricou, on 03/22/2008, -0/+15Tarnishing attacks dont need any actual connection - they only need to be able to force people to associate the target with something unpleasant. Imagine, for example, if a fast food chain were to fund a (Deniable) advertising campaign plastering posters on billboards showing their competitor's packageing stuffed with what looks a lot like dog crap. This would create an association: People seeing the targeted companies logo would immediately feel revolted, and their sales would plumet. But the harder they try to fight this slur, the more they have to mention the dog crap, and the greater the association becomes. It works just as well for the anti-marketing of ideas: 'Evolution hitler nazi evolution genocide racism evolution slavery evolution...' - repeat until the public conciousness has all the concepts firmly linked together. Even if people dont conciously know why they now believe evolution to be dangerous, the subconcious impact will be there.
- captainbluebear, on 03/22/2008, -0/+15For "Open your mind" read "Become ruthlessly indoctrinated by the rantings of a madman who, despite having a firm belief that the information he holds being of vital value to the future of the human race, still charges for anything he does".
Wake up mchan. The world isn't out to get you. - captainbluebear, on 03/22/2008, -2/+17Science, proven with empirical evidence - Classroom.
Religious belief, unprovable - Church. - FatLoser, on 03/22/2008, -0/+14Ben Stein puts something like $5000 on his credit cards each month, which he pays off before any interest accrues. The credit card companies hate him because the profits they make in transaction fees are eaten up by the nearly perpetual $2500 loan he has at their expense.
- bsmang, on 03/22/2008, -4/+18Ben Stein is an idiot. People think he's so smart, but he only pretends to be.
- Sternkrone, on 03/22/2008, -2/+16"NAZI" isn't an acronym. =.=
*Nazi
/end nitpicking - ozydingo, on 03/22/2008, -1/+14"The whole universe just popped into existence?"
Clearly, you are an outstanding scholar with an unending wisdom of the theory at hand. - SIMAFOL, on 03/22/2008, -0/+13How you believe in Micro-evolution and not Macro? Macro is only Micro cumulated over millions of years. If you refuse that, then you refuse carbon-dating, geological layering and DNA similarities between non-related species. No one needs to "be around" to observe natural laws. A tree falling in the forest still makes a sound and causes the area of the fall to move and affect grass and decay and etc....
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/macroevolution.htm ...
You are so close to thinking. - laserblazer, on 03/22/2008, -0/+13Tom Cruise and John Travolta are the Adam and Eve of Scientology. I think it was something like they were kicked out of the Closet of Eden for groping the snake.
- purag66, on 05/13/2009, -0/+13Wow. Never before have I heard the truth so succinctly. I also want to add that what scares many "Christians" is that if you believe that we are "just an accident" (their words, not mine) then you have no moral imperative to not run around stealing, raping, murdering, etc. because you are not scared for your soul and that your life here on Earth is not a transition state or a path function but a state of being.
Of course, not everyone needs religion to understand morality and religious people have by no means a monopoly or an oligopoly on morality. - laserblazer, on 03/22/2008, -5/+18Aww, poor little Christian. When they're not murdering entire cultures, they're whining on Digg.
- EarlOfLade, on 03/22/2008, -3/+16Atheists have killed in the name of atheism? LOL you ARE dumb!
- Dimensio, on 03/22/2008, -1/+14The Big Bang has no relevance, however. Why have you introduced this irrelevant subject when the current topic of discussion is evolution?
- ApokalypseNow, on 03/22/2008, -3/+16Comments like this are usually made because of ignorance of the evidence for evolution.
Here's something to think about then: Foraminifera.
We have foraminifera fossils going back to the mid-Jurassic in a day-by-day and year-by-year complete and perfect fossil record, detailing almost an entire phylum of life and all the evolutionary steps taken. -
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