What is Digg?180 Comments
- Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+88"supports 99% of the software out there, unlike linux which supports *****"
An OS doesn't support software. Software supports an OS o.O - NerveBand, on 10/12/2007, -14/+96At least have respect for Linux users. You probabily never used linux, hence your "hatred."
Go suck on Steve Ballmer's dong. - newanon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+59And he stays with Linux
"Luckily, he is a smart man, and from this point on, Linux will be the OS of choice on all his servers" - newanon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+45ya, although it's not particularly surprising. Linux is free and it's been known to be more secure than Windows along with almost every other OS
- trylleklovn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+45"The only thing Windows has that Linux doesn't nowadays is gaming support."
You got it the wrong way around. It is the games that doesn't support Linux, not Linux that doesn't support the games...
Although WINE makes it possible for games, that weren't intended to run on Linux, to run anyway, which is amazing, considering. - Simon80, on 10/12/2007, -6/+40There's plenty of software that runs on Linux and not Windows, but you won't know about it if you've only ever used Windows. Also, I agree with the above post, wine is quite useful, and much easier to manage than a Windows installation.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32@shoopdawhoop:
> "Linux is the pedophile's OS of choice"
I know that was a cheap insult, but I'm willing to bet $1000 that at least 99% of pedophiles run Windows actually. Seriously. Not only that, but every crook and low life scum on the internet will run Windows too. Why? Because these are the type of people who haven't got the character to try anything better, and mainly because they need to develop all their viruses and spyware on it. Lovely eh?
With a username like shoopdawhoop, you simply must take it up the arse on a regular basis (as a Windows advocate I suspect you like to be dominated) and achieve sexual satisfaction with pictures of small children. Where do you want to go today?... - sizzam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+25shoopdawhoop: a) it may cost money but since I'll never get audited I haven't paid for a copy in ten years
thief
Pronunciation: 'thEf
one that steals especially stealthily or secretly; also : one who commits theft or larceny
I'll use it in a sentence for you:
"A pedophile and a thief are two examples of people with flawed characters." - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -8/+32Look at the bottom line as well:
"...it (Linux) is cheaper to buy, cheaper to install, and much more secure." - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21"Hmm... I just wonder, how many linux screwups actually stop migration from Windows?"
As someone who does those type of things for a living, here are what I've seen on the customer side for not migrating to Linux on the desktop (excluding military customers). There are a different set of excuses on the server side.
1) Ignorance. Linux doesn't have a marketing department and most of what managers know about Linux is either five years old (the last time they actually played with computers), second hand from another Windows fanboy or a MSFT PR firm.
2) Lack of oversight. Companies are, at least in my experience, surprisingly ignorant about the applications their users need on a daily basis. There's usually a, "Oh, what about...??? You mean we can't have THAT?!" somewhere in the discussion.
3) The WeatherBug Factor. Users get emotional at a visceral level when they can't have their toys. That emotion turns to dogma and anger the higher up the management chain you go. Something like, "I have to be able to connect my iPod/digital camera/some toy." Or, my personal favorite, "My daughter likes to play with her Disney paint program when she visits." And if Linux doesn't support that particular piece of software then you get the, "I just don't think it's ready for prime time." line.
4) File formats. Linked spreadsheets and dozens of Access db's scattered across the network, some of them providing fairly important functions.
5) Hardware follies. Buying Windows machines and expecting Linux to automatically detect and support every bizarre hardware configuration ever conceived since computing was done on clay tablets dried in the sun.
The best way to go is setting your office up on Linux right from the start, and selecting hardware configs with Linux in mind. Once you get used to it going back to Windows will seem laughable. You can set up a stand-alone Windows machine here and there for Windows only software, just don't let that network segment see the internet and don't let anyone use it as their primary workstation. You can Nike LAN the Windows boxes if you really want to push the issue, but that's not really necessary. - shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21"It's only cheaper if your time is worthless."
the famous opportunity cost argument, this is a favourite of the microsoft FUD generators.... but its fundamentally wrong, as somebody who repairs pc's, i would say that the small outlay in time to learn a new OS is paid back 100 fold for all the time i don't spend cleaning my pc of spyware/virus's and the like....
seriously i had to clean a windows box the other day which somehow let a virus get into the bios. incredible... - bjornski, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22This is an HP issue, not an MS issue.
3rd party software builds ALWAYS suck. - paulmdx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17How about you don't spam your piece of ***** search engine?
- Nebbie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I set up my in-laws on ubuntu 2 years ago. They are over 50 y/o, and have never owned a PC before. I had to teach them how to use a mouse. I've only had to show them once how to use firefox, evolution, and gaim, and they are getting on fine with everything. I have them set up on automatic updates, and they restart the computer when it asks them to (usually a kernel upgrade happened). I go on the computer every 6 months around the middle of the Ubuntu's latest version's life cycle and upgrade to it for them (I used to do onsite tech support when between jobs and I visit some of those people a lot more then every 6 months for windows issues).
There are issues they cannot handle, such as the original install and some hardware problems they had (non OS related), but I wouldn't expect them to install Windows themselves on their first computer either.
The only issue they did have that they needed my help for was installing nonstandard ubuntu software (like all the MS video codecs). Doing an ubuntu reinstall on my wife's computer I noticed that the documentation for installing that stuff is much better now, so I'd be willing to bet that they might be able to handle that stuff on their own now. The opposite problem is usually faced on Windows, where the MS codecs are fine, but it can be complicated for a new user to install other widely used codecs like dvix (MS's mpeg4 codec might be able to handle those now, haven't tested) especially because MS does not have documentation on doing those things available.
If someone using a standard install of a popular distro like Ubuntu, the learning curve is pretty equal to Windows. Some things are easier on Ubuntu, some are easier on Windows. But there are a lot of non transferable skills, which gives the appearance of a steeper learning curve for linux for someone coming from Windows. My Inlaws are lost when they sit down at a Windows machine.
As far as hardware issues go, I don't see Windows having an advantage over Linux either. I don't have 1 computer in my house that I can install Windows XP on and get a network connection. I'm lucky if I'm not looking at a low res desktop from the standard vesa driver as well. With Ubuntu (or Gentoo which I use on my personal machines) there is one place to go to for all help getting assistance with new hardware, but with the greater frequency in releases of installation media it is rare to not be able to hardware support right out of the box. LiveCDs are especially great since you have access to a working GUI with a webbrowser while installing incase an issue is found. If someone has an issue with a Windows install with no access to the internet, they usually need someone elses assistance, usually costing some money.
In the past it was very easy to get stuck while installing Linux, but it is getting better every day. Any type of wireless tech (wifi and bluetooth) can be a big issue, but systems like NetworkManager are making things easier and more intuitive for new users. Yes, you get the blog posts of people that have all kinds of hardware issues installing Linux, and someone may respond to this with all the hardware problems they have as well. But people are always more vocal about negative things, and if they are happy with how their Linux install went they usually do go an yell about it everywhere. - ElectricSoup, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18Not having an OS CD/DVD is a major problem on Windows. That's true for home users as well as in a situation like Charlie Demerjian has here.
Providing an genuine OS CD not a problem with Ubuntu, because they don't care if people lend it or copy it. It's not a concern for Apple, because, heck, they just sold you hardware, and that's where their profit is.
But it's a problem on Windows installs from OEMs, and the more people realize that problem is there, the more it will damage Microsoft. - TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14"learning curve for non-techies"
Are you referring to those that don't even know the difference between ram and hdd? Because these people don't care or even know that they are not under windows. Even when they are with windows they have no clue what's going on, they install the first .exe they think they needs. I have tried it, and a non-techies will easily learn any software you throw at him. I agree the hard part can be to configure the hardware to work as it should, but once this is done, there is no need to reconfigure it ever... unlike windows where drivers magically scrap themselves. Don't tell me a non-techie can install and configure windows properly, would you leave your mom alone on a freshly installed Windows pre SP1 Xp connected to the net ? - TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Thing is, if there is a Linux screw-up, it can be fixed in a matter of hours if not less. Windows, years of trying to fix and still nowhere close to have a good OS. I have migrated 4 users, another this week, to ubuntu and while they had minor problems, they would'nt for nothing switch back to windows. The pros are much greater than the cons.
- robsta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@AchmedChan
Wine is great for Linux! I regularly use it all the time. The thing that frustrates me is at the end of the day companies such as Blizzard do not support Linux as an official platform. For example recently a large number of Wine Users found their WOW accounts banned. Blizzard blamed hacks and so forth. Luckily I wasn't one, but this doesn't help the viability of Linux at all. - AchmedChan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Could be read two different ways, but I did mean the way you said. My fault.
Gaming support = support from gamemakers? Meh, it's early. - joshman5k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I much prefer this list:
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=windows+screwups&btnG=Google+Search&meta= - IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Welcome to the Block list, asswipe.
- IQ70, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"Microsoft has a policy where the vendors can't ship you a Windows CD so instead they have to send you a series of restore CDs."
Would be good if that was true. I think it is HPs way to reduce costs rather than MS policy.
Please see this link. http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bph07143
And what is "copmlicated"? - conna, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10only thing i can see to blame MS for is the f6 floppy issue.
This happens to me all the time. Once, for a laptop just a little over a year old (out of warranty) and HP WOULD NOT ship the recovery disk. Any vendor that cannot ship a real MS OS disk gets passed up by my company. - neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@jackcall: I agree, lack of keyboard support would be a pretty big deal breaker.
My own experience is the opposite: No matter how much I tried, no matter how many options in the Control Panel I experimented with, no matter how much googling I did, I couldn't persuade Windows XP that my laptop had anything other than a US English keyboard.
Ubuntu? It asked me to push some keys during the install, and figured out I had a jp106 keyboard.
Now, there was one problem with the ] key not being correct, but a quick trip to Gnome's Desktop->Preferences->Keyboard fixed that right up.
Bluetooth also worked for me when winxp wouldn't.
Of course, that's just my experiences weighed against yours. I have no doubt that some people have all kinds of crazy trouble - my flatmate is one of them. I can't understand it, but then, he can't understand why Windows gives me so much ***** when it Just Works for him. We blame it on having different auras. - AchmedChan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9It's not just an HP issue, it's a 3rd party vendor issue. Dell loads a ton of proprietary crap in with their base Windows installs as well.
- Stonekeeper, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16I've not heard of any. You?
- MrSarcasm, on 10/12/2007, -13/+21Hmm... I just wonder, how many linux screwups actually stop migration from Windows?
- jcostom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I've (just this past week) done something quite similar at our church. For like forever and a day now, we've been running our e-mail AV & spam control on a system that runs Win Server 2003 (after a recent hw upgrade, formerly Win 2k Server) and the Symantec Mail Security for SMTP.
People complained constantly about slow email delivery from the outside. We're talking on the order of 30 minutes to get an email sent from gmail to the church, connected to a reasonably good isp via a frac t-1 that's not heavily burdened. The Win/Symantec box always, and I mean ALWAYS had anywhere from 10k - 20k messages sitting in the "Slow Queue" for processing, and 3k- 17k messages in the "Fast Queue". We're currently testing a solution that's running on a crusty old Compaq Deskpro EN (the tiny one) with less CPU and less than half the ram (Win has 1GB, this has 384MB). The solution is Postfix using Mailscanner (clamav, spamassassin, razor, pyzor, sbl-xbl and ordb), running atop Ubuntu Server 6.06.1 LTS (5 years of support!).
Mail delivery times have dropped to a fraction of a minute (almost instant most of the time), the highest recorded load on the system (as seen by munin-node) is 0.4, and we've only ever gone 10MB into swap. Our next move is going to be to claim the old system used by Win/Symantec, replicate the config on the new test system and roll it on out. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I personally see this scenario playing out more often these days. Someone will come to me with a problem and I will end up saying something like "Microsoft doesn't..." or "Windows can't..." and "The new Microsoft policy on that is..." and 10 minutes into the conversation it becomes apparent we're talking politics, not technology. Most of the time my advice is "If we by product X, Y or Z we can solve the problem but it's going to cost us $___" So on top of an already expensive operating system we're stuck buying add-on software simply because of Microsoft's politics. (for example, at my last job we had to buy Norton Ghost because Windows RIS doesn't support any non-Windows operating systems. So in the end we paid for RIS but we couldn't use it because Microsoft doesn't want to make it any easier for us to install Linux)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Guys, shoopdawoop is obviously a troll. You fed the troll. He thinks it's funny now, and will come back for more.
Check out his username, and then see http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Shoop_Kid
YHBT. - Simon80, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9It's been getting worse and worse, while alternatives have gotten better over time - it's much easier to care now.
- dwhitbeck, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10"The OS costs $25 or less to the consumer when you buy from a vendor like HP. I wouldn't call that expensive."
Are you going to buy a new computer to get VIsta? - Makurosu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"So, unable to transfer the install easily, unable to legally use a different CD of Windows with my legally purchased key, and unable to install the drivers with the one I had, I was left with only one option."
Well, I'm sure there are other options than to switch operating systems just because there was a problem installing drivers in the right order. This option happened to work, and the customer didn't mind giving M$ the finger, so the writer was lucky (if that story is even true). The article is pretty sloppily thought out and written.
I switched to Ubuntu, because I eventually came to the conclusion that being able to do only about 95% of the stuff that I could do on Windows (I'm still looking for a better genealogy program than GRAMPS) is a better option than constantly installing patches, running virus scans, running spyware scans, getting nickled and dimed to death for upgrades and yearly licensing fees, and having to wait five minutes every time I reboot for the hard drive to stop churning. And I'm not going to reduce myself to piracy to save money or for convenience. It's a quality of life issue for me. So, I think the reason you switch your operating system needs to be better thought out than that. Luckily, Ubuntu is a great operating system, and I'm content with it. Hopefully the writer's customer will be as well in the long haul. - powatom, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I've suffered this nightmare scenario a number of times while setting up the network in a small company. This practice of not including a floppy drive is where I find the most irritation. I've offered to just say '***** it' and install Linux on their machines, but at the moment the shift is just too costly - they rely on customised software which is Windows only - and although there are FOSS alternatives, none provide the same functionality, or a customisation option (yet). Their main IT support guy is also pushing them to switch to Linux, since the number of problems Windows has been throwing up recently is just driving him mad.
- kcbnac, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Please, cite your reasoning for The Inq not being credible. (I detect a hint of sarcasm in your post)
The Inq reports on many things that are in the future - often unable to substantiate them, due to the nature of their sources. Show me another site that talks about future products that are as, if not more accurate, than The Inq. More people from the companies we report on trust The Inq over many other sources.
I remember when Charlie came back from that job....oooh, was he pissed about this....
Hilarity, and the linked article, ensued.
"Here's the driver CD - but you have to make a driver floppy"
My response: Why'd they drop the ball so bad and NOT include a floppy of the drivers directly...instead making the customer take the extra step, and requiring a floppy...?
Charlie: "Good question." - panique, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6You guys should just straight block shoopdawhoop. He created his account 4 days ago, obviously to troll.
- nach0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Dugg for use of the phrase "bite you in the bum" in the article.
- camirillobrillo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9It sounds to me like the guy that wrote the article didn't try hard enough. Granted he ran into many roadblocks but those are minor issues and could have been overcome.
1.Download driver from website and install.
2.Configure raid array.
3.Use ghost to transfer 20 gb image to the raid array.
Problem solved.
Also why was he installing XP as a server OS?? - powatom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I don't know what's confusing you here:
1) Floppy drives are essentially obsolete.
2) Computers are routinely shipped without floppy drives
3) RETAILERS (Note, I am not accusing Microsoft) are shipping the restoration software on CDs (or otherwise in a recovery partition). This software REQUIRES FLOPPY DISKS. This is NOT A MICROSOFT PROBLEM, AND I AM NOT ACCUSING MICROSOFT OF CAUSING IT.
4) Microsoft either hasn't noticed this, or doesn't care. They're focused on more pressing problems. They are NOT HELPING - either by informing retailers of the proper restoration software (the one which does not require floppy disks), or by just making it easier for people to get the proper recovery software.
As I've said, it is not Microsoft causing this problem - it's the retailers who don't know what they're doing. Microsoft COULD help solve this problem, but they're doing nothing about it.
As an aside - why should I have to waste time and money (however little it would cost me) installing a floppy drive because of a shoddy setup? - trylleklovn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Wine is great for Linux! I regularly use it all the time. The thing that frustrates me is at the end of the day companies such as Blizzard do not support Linux as an official platform. For example recently a large number of Wine Users found their WOW accounts banned. Blizzard blamed hacks and so forth. Luckily I wasn't one, but this doesn't help the viability of Linux at all."
Those who were banned got free playtime from blizzard, when they realized that it was stupid. - Ssullivan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6> "With a username like shoopdawhoop, you simply must take it up the arse on a regular basis (as a Windows >advocate I suspect you like to be dominated) and achieve sexual satisfaction with pictures of small children."
That was awesome watch now he is gong to go change his username lol - powatom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I don't see your point. Of course people new to Linux won't understand a lot of the commands or the filesystem. This is not 'because it's Linux', it's 'because it's different'. You have to start learning somewhere.
- phenbach, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I recently had a similar experience with a server install at a Autobody Repair shop.
Linux is not for everyone especially small businesses. I informed them they they would have to purchase a new copy of windows or run on Linux ( Fedora 6 ).
I I have them the pros and cons. Making it known that my main concern was they will not know what to do if they have an issue since most small companies don't staff an IT person.
They opted for the linux and it has increased the overall performance of their
CCC Pathways ( Collision Estimating Software ) and she actually got the tech support people at the software company to do a full reinstall on a linux server without them knowing. CCC doesn't support linux server but they should - HebrewHammer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4hah, i have a promise controller myself, great piece of hardware, if you can get it running.
- mickstephenson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Seriously have you no intelligence, the point isn't whether it windows has a CD, it's that you don't get one.
It's no use to me that one exists if I don't have one, and I paid for windows. Explain to me that when you buy a computer you purchase a copy of windows, and get a key, which is no use to you because they give you a "recovery partition". - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5[quote]The XP Key on the towers is NOT locked to that restore image.[/quote]
Once again, you MS apologists are missing the point. This licensing mess would not happen with other OSes because only MS insists on these unrealistic OEM copy rules. Furthermore, it has gotten even worse with Vista. You have not even begun to see the problems Vista is going to cause OEMs and consumers because the activation scheme permits no leeway for such unforeseen config errors.
If you're a major corporation with a volume license key, you won't have much trouble, but for everyone else, these MS licensing and activation schemes can result in serious problems. The worst being someone losing their license entirely, even though they bought (or thought they did!) the OS.
But this is good news, the world is going to realize what a bunch of short-sighted, bumbling, fascist shmucks MS really are. I'm surprised not everyone has realized this already. Sort of like the last 20% of America that still thinks George W. Bush is doing the right thing. - merky1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Actually, it is a MSFT policy. Along the lines of Windows Genuine Advantage.
http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/00/05/01/000501opfoster.html - Stonekeeper, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5For server side, I'm at a complete loss as to why you'd use windows. Is it the clicky buttons you want?
- calbff, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Wow, note for new diggers: never insult Linux!
But hey, I've put if off for months but you all sound so keen that I'm installing Ubuntu in a virtual machine to try it out. This better be good... - Rojer64, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5There are thoughts around about MS being actually commiting suicide with its aggravating anti-customer policy.
I remember when they launched SP2 and silently made the sysprep + roaming profiles setup a nightmare. The worse time consuming scenario I ever came across. They lost my customership forever that time.
Hardware disabling in Vista to support their "premium content" fantasy is the last example of this behaviour. One might wonder how far they are willing to go. Now if you ever tried to setup a recent Sony GSM phone for bluetooth, you gotta see what big corporations are up to.
For Firefox' guru (Ross) , Microsoft is just throwing spaghettis at the wall to see if it'll stick. I say: they have gone mad, just like the "Mad Right Wing" did after they got their guy inside the White House. Don't they have anybody among their executives to have a decent vision of what is happening ? When the spaghetti falls back, it will be to late. Microsoft could reverse its policies. For most big corps, it will be too late. The mad muslims have lost because of Arab people's rejection. So did, partially, the righty idiots in last november. I am prepared to bet that the Mad corporations will lose in this battle for the same reason.
Betting on lack of education is never a safe bet : people get educated quite fast these days. -
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