What is Digg?81 Comments
- zimm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25All the drm and anti piracy controls in the world DO NOT hurt the pirates one damm bit. not at all.
For all the real customers tho....
Well. They got your money now didnt they. So who cares how much of a pain in the ass it is for the customers. - digitalgopher, on 10/12/2007, -9/+29I think people are reacting to the WAY MS is doing this as much as the principal of doing so. some have complained about the fact the MS is not only authenticating their legitimate copy of windows but also collecting information about their PCs etc. and "causing system troubles"...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Allright. A lot of people have said that it does the exact same thing that X,Y,Z does. Im sorry but i have to say B.S. The difference is the other programs told you what you were gettng when you installed. Not sneaking in the backdoor and forcing users to instll as a half informed 'critical' update .
- MHZmaster, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20@IQ70
Your point is valid, but your examples are off. Those apps just check the serial number against a certain algorithm. Don't ask me how I know... I just do. Some apps that do check your product key against a central database are:
Norton 2005 and Adobe apps (from the time CS came out). I can't think of any others off the top of my head.
However, I'll give you a reason from personal experience why product activation is a problem. I (LEGALLY) bought Norton 2005 about the time it came out (yes, I was dumb then). I installed it, and when the activation screen came up, I entered my (LEGITIMATE) product key and it authenticated properly. 30 days later, when the trial period had expired, a screen came up telling me I needed to activate my software to use it any longer. I tried activating again until I ran out of licenses, and each time it went through successfully, but the program still acted as though it was still in trial period. I even tried using a keygen, that also didn't change anything (though it would have worked). Symantec support didn't help, though I only called once.
During this time without an AntiVirus or Firewall, I got several viruses and popups invaded my machine. This drove me to eventually give up and just download try AVG Antivirus. Turns out, I liked it better, anyway, and I use it to this day. Sorry, Symantec.
I must admit that my computer was really messed up at the time (to the point where I couldn't install certain programs directly off a CD), so I don't entirely blame Symantec. But any company that sells a product that millions rely on to protect their systems should not have a flaw like that, under any circumstances.
As for Windows, let's just say I have a very convenient way around WGA.
Edit: Holy *****, I didn't mean to write this much. - jazzyinco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Actually it's more like Sam's club coming over to your house the next day to check your bag.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11In a world where everyone always steals something, where "if someone's watched for long enough, it's always found a reason to put him in jail", calling a thief a thief is hypocrisy.
Everyone has dark little secrets. Even you, Mr. Smart*ss. Or are you so pure and imaculate that we couldn't find a pirated mp3 in your hard drive? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10And that's why too many surveillance systems are wrong, and the famous quote "if you didn't do nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" is wrong.
If I didn't do nothing wrong, I shouldn't be under surveillance in the 1st place, because you can do anything with the information you get about me. And trust me, every year, thousands of people in the US and around the world are arrested or legally killed, not because they are more evil than you or me, but because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is the sad truth. The System is never perfect. - dwhitbeck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7""Our experience is that customers--as long as the process is understandable, unobtrusive, quick and painless--appreciate not only their copy of Windows more, but also appreciate Microsoft more," David Lazar, director of the Windows Genuine program at Microsoft, told CNET News.com last week"
Yeah, I guess some people enjoy a tooth ache also. - mbabauer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7This is a sore subject to me. I am a member of Sam's and BJs, and in both cases I absolutely REFUSE to let them look at my stuff. They always try to stop me, and I just tell them "If you think I am stealing, then call the cops." My wife hates going there with me, because I make a huge scene. Its degrading to me as a customer to be called a thief before I even left their store.
And, before you say "Well, its to double check their cashiers", my response...if you are employing cashiers that are making that many mistakes, then you are employing the wrong cashiers. - spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Yeah don't encrypt gas or you'll get caught
- DASH, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Windows is getting worse day by day... I have a machine (Tower) that was not connected to the internet for over 6 months. (Didn't have a cost effective highspeed internet option) So I used a dial up connect on another box (Desktop). Long story short I couldn't take it and got comcast. Now all my boxes (Tower, Desktop, Laptop) are happy playing on the net again. I turned the Auto updates off on the Tower since it wasnt connected to the net. When I brought it back on the net I went out and checked for updates and DLed a few I got the BSD! I had to use a backed up image to get my PC going again. I got it up and running and made sure I turned off the Auto updates. I noticed THIS morning that the machine some how was in the process of DLing UPDATES! WTF? What is the point of being able to turn off the auto updates if MS is just going to turn them back on and update your boxes while you sleep? Good thing I have to be at work EARLY in the morning and I had to get some data off the box before I left or I wouldn't have seen it running.
- MackPrime, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7they couldve avoided this by charging a bit less. they make a huge profit in the first few years, why not let the price drop away when piracy comes into play?
- t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Apple actually gave the 10.0 to 10.1 update to people who bought 10.0, for free.
Also, there are so many new features in these 10.x upgrades that they are actually worth upgrading. It's like 98 -> 2000 -> XP, but with even more stuff added. - cranium, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I had a completely LEGIT copy of XP refuse to let me update, I had to obtain and install a different license key to get it working again. Something is wrong with their algorithm.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Thanks for this story, just reminded me to get rid of that WGA *****.
- indijay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5How did you manage to get rid of crap. I installed when it came out first without notice (you know that automatic update crap) and now everytime I install new updates first it installs that WGA crap first and then the updates. I have a hard time understanding why it has to be installed every time I update? Sometimes I really feel sorry for myself for paying this OS !!
You are very true with Linux, linux experts / zealots whatever anyone wants to call them, please help noobs, transformation from this addicted OS to linux is bit difficult (at least for me, but I am gonna make it) - foxsynergy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5This is quite annoying to two of the people I know whose Windows XP are legit, purchased at Circuit City and Best Buy respectively. The obnoxious "OMG your software is not legit! You victim!" banner pops up on startup, then the goofy starfish by the clock with its warnings of doom. Both people are on the level, and due to the crappy nature of the thermal receipts both BB and CC use around here, their proof of purchase has faded to a sheet of poor quality bathroom tissue. Even given the likelihood that either place could print them a new receipt (assuming the customers were willing to spill their personal info to the retailers), it's still a cruddy thing to have happen to a person who *did* by the product legitimately.
Bottom line: WGA, like everything else from Microsoft lately, should be a public Beta at best. - silenceHR, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@MZHmaster
that's why my firewall is blocking all those "update" features in many common win software. no phoning home from here. i'll rather stay with original installation, then allow that ***** to phone home.
only thing that is allowed to auto-update is anti-virus. - milieu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4What I hate about WGA is that it hides. It's not listed under the firewall as something I can block, so it has special rules and privileges. It can actually shut off my ability to use Windows.
So what stops a determined hacker from finding a way to infect WGA, and then randomly activate it? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7@ scream I just switched over to SUSE because I had a stolen copy of XP. Microsoft should have to fix the legit users problems still. Its a two issue problem:
Microsoft has to find some way to deal with pirates.
Needs to provide a quality service (which it is lacking in right now)
We will watch and see it shake down. - bitemegates, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I have a legitimate copy of xp pro. I got rid of that WGA crap. I also installed Kubuntu on another box. I am doing my utmost to be out form under the MS dominance. Microsoft, you have violated *my* trust. And Linux folks, please be patient and helpful to those of us who are -willing- to learn it. My thanks to you all. Also want to thank the clever coders who enable us to circumvent this nonsense of being spied on. I fully intend on this being the last MS Product I ever purchase or use. Enough is enough and I have reached my limit. I've been a computer user for 12 years. Its time to switch lanes I see. Thank goodness for IRC and some knowledgable folks.
- wabbit42, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5According to Microsoft, when WGA first runs, it collects the following information and forwards it to the company:
* The Windows XP product key
* The name of your PC's manufacturer
* The operating system version
* PC BIOS information
* The locale setting and language you've chosen
I have a legit copy of windos xp. I have to activate it online after it is installed. Microsoft collect this information from me after I have registered my legit copy with them. I do not want to give Microsoft this information. This is personal to me and I'd rather they didn't put the details of my machine in a database.
Unfortunately, they haven't given me that choice. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7You didn't get my point.
I'm a musician so obviously I don't agree 100% with pirated mp3. Duh.
What I'm saying is that it's always an hypocrisy because yeah, maybe your hard drive doesn't have pirated mp3, but instead has photos of 3 year old children being raped. I'm not saying that you do have them, I'm saying that everyone is a pottential criminal and, under the eyes of the law, even the judge and the traffic cop do something "wrong" in the privacy of their homes. Or did something "criminal" at one point of their lives.
At the eyes of the modern law, nobody is 100% innocent. You can be innocent of 1 thing, but not all. Ask any lawyer. - codeman38, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The thing that amazes me about this Windows Genuine Advantage thing: The validation tool that Microsoft tried to foist on people through Windows Update (which is bad enough, but that's another rant) is not even a final version! The EULA (which, thankfully, *can* be declined) reveals that the program is still in beta and not recommended for work environments.
Seriously, what was Microsoft thinking here? - csrster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4'"I have licenses for all my PCs," wrote CNET News.com reader "kamwmail-cnet1." But citing a lack of trust in Microsoft, this reader installed the 905474.exe tool. "Install this hack. Boot your PC. You're in business, private business," the reader added.'
Now there's a guy who needs to switching to Linux. - mattson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I had to find a way to disable WGA just to stop it from dialing up my ISP every time I rebooted.
- o0joshua0o, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Wasn't Windows Genuine Advantage cracked like, forever ago?
- velo2k77, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Mac OS and Linux will be my friends. I hope to dodge the vista bullet when it arrives.
- jimmsta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3If you're looking for a way around WGA, google this: mublinder
Works like a charm. - cmiz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@furtwan: What are you talking about? I'll admit that there are other companies that do just as much data mining as MS, but saying that they don't do it is just naive. Why else would Windows still connect to the internet without my interaction, even with all automatic updates turned off?
I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but Linux has been looking better and better to me every year... - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Don't think it will end with a mere look at the data currently being collected.
Microsoft WILL gladly help any narc or spy have a look at your documents. - uzusan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3try reading some of the comments, that isnt the problem.
I have a legit copy of media center edition 2005 (basically xp sp2 with the media center add-on) that came with my new pc. i dont mind activating it or allowing microsoft to check it is real when i first run the machine. at that point it had none of my information on it, it was just out of the box.
but why should i allow microsoft to re-check that its legit? isn't once enough? i dont want microsoft collection information about my machine that could tie in with the information i have since put on it. (hell i dont want them to have any of my information).
its the same problem with all DRM. the drm does nothing to actually reduce piracy (i.e. there have been multiple ways around WGA since day 1) but for those users who have actually paid for the software, it creates a hindrance.
(and before anyone flames me just because i bought this version of windows - this os just came with the pc i bought ;) ) - pabster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yeah, of course, if one is prudent (ie NO automatic updating), it isn't too hard to uncheck the box for the WGA *****.
If you're being hampered by this POS you can grab a nifty little tool to remove the Genuine Advantage "Phone Home" - go here - http://www.firewallleaktester.com/removewga.htm - CarzorStelatis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Reported as inaccurate - Micro$oft is not combatting piracy. Unless they've got a pretend navy as well as the 'pretend cops' BSA.
- newspimp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"So let me get this straight, people are upset because Microsoft is checking to see if you are stealing? And if you are you cant upgrade a product you didnt pay for anyway? Wow."
And your response to thos who LEGALLY purchased Windows XP and their keys were hit with this is what? Piss off and die?
Honestly, I couldn't care about all of this WGA junk, as personally I haven't run Windows since Win98 and my workplace is 95% Mac based. (Our other 5% are my Linux routers and two older Windows NT 4.0 fileservers that are internal only). I can understand Microsoft's desire to curb piracy, and would support some efforts to do so, but only if those efforts erred on the side of trusting the legit consumers who's keys were inadvertantly caught up versus auto-assuming everyone is a pirate. Unfortunately, I've seen workers here bring in their laptops, bought less than a month ago from Best Buy, with a 100% legal copy of XP (Unless Compaq is pirating Windows...) have the WGA "problem". This is after only normal use, no reinstall or anything. - ToddFFW, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4one word, kubuntu
- Deusiah, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4If you "didn't do nothing wrong" it would mean you'd have done everything right Mr Double Negative :P
- mexter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2You have to make sure that autoupdates are disabled through the Automatic Update area in the control panel. Doing it through the Security Center, kind of like uninstalling Windows Messenger, doesn't appear to actually do anything other than tell you that it's done.
You may also want to make sure it's disabled on your individual network connection settings. The Windows Firewall is annoying that way as well. - TheJenks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2So far all I have ever received for having a genuine copy of XP is:
The use of it on only one computer even though both of my computers are never on at the same time
Constant need to update validation tools
pop ups on my third party firewall about whatever new service ms has installed to prove im still legal.
Im beginning to think having a pirate version would have been a lot easier. - andron, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It is highly annoying why I must waste network bandwidth on an 'update' which tells me my copy of widows is legit, I know its legit I don't need to download software to check that. Why should they need to collect ANY information about my PC? I have a legal copy of windows I should be able to do anything on my PC without Microsoft seeing it. Whatever happened to privacy?
One of the reasons I now dual boot Linux and Windows.
@ indijay
I too have a HP machine, I can dual boot fine on it, but I use Windows and Ubuntu Linux, not SUSE.
It could be a boot loader issue,
SUSE probably used its boot loader in the MBR, normally Lilo or Grub. Grub can't boot windows, it can however invoke the windows boot loader if its still there.
Look at the docs for Grub.
Also try hitting Esc at boot time in case your boot loader's hiding the menu. - spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Here's my tale of Windows woe as I tried to install my new video card.
http://demodulated.blogspot.com/2006/03/tale-of-two-vidies-yes-groan.html - MarkByers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3No company will reduce prices if people are willing to pay already (and most people are very happy to pay when they buy a new computer). Even if piracy disappears, the price will stay the same. If anything piracy reducing will increase prices because more people will buy the product, increasing the demand.
Prices are based on supply and demand, not reward and punishment. - aaarrrggghhh, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6"Mac just keeps looking better and better and better..."
Just remember, after apple realeased OSX Beta for sale, so far they have had 5 updates (most of which made improvements(read fixes) but very few major additions) and each time they want you to buy/pay again!
Thats a damn sight more money than a legit XP Pro!
Lee - billybob476, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"I know its legit I don't need to download software to check that"
It's not THEM telling YOU they're concerned with. It's YOU telling THEM. - moeq, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1WGA was cracked the day it came out, people. Microsoft keeps patching WGA and making it more invasive, and hackers keep cracking it. The fact that most people are ignorant of this is what Microsoft relies on to keep selling for $140 what you could get for free.
The fact that Cnet decided to do an article on this is interesting, considering their corporate mindset, but none of what they reported was news to me. Franklly, the article was weak and it went easy on Microsoft. No digg. - CarzorStelatis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2OK, if you can provide me with one soccer mom who knows what Windows Genuine Advantage *is* (or even knows what spyware generally is), never mind the problems with it, then I might be able to accept what you're saying.
- Aklblue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Enough already .. go and install Ubuntu .. problem solved ..
- Arthmoor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Not to mention the fact that it does this every time a user logs in or the system is rebooted. Sit behind an authenticating proxy sometime if you don't beleive it. When it asks you to authenticate and you haven't opened any programs yet you'll understand. This kind of thing is what spyware does. Not a legit application.
- thejadedmonkey, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6Dude, are you insane? Go check out apple's site on OS X. Tiger alone has 400 new features. Not that many of them are what the average person would use on a daily basis, but you do get a lot of new features. However, even if you don't upgrade you still get a secure OS, which is better than Microsoft can do.
But perhaps the best part of using OS X is that it doesn't force you to install spyware like XP does. - aaarrrggghhh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Fair enough
So pay for beta (1), pay for 10.0 (2), free to 10.1 (ok, still 2 charges), 10.2, big step up - 10.1 was hopeless on a network (3), 10.3 better still (almost ready for market (if you do more than play itunes all day)) (4), 10.4, desk accessories (seem to recall them in os 7) (5 steps).
Still 5 'pay for' upgrades.
As for 400 new features, well, take a design studio on a network and upgrade them, show me the 400 new features.
Sorry but its just not real world, i assume my sphincter has hundreds of features, if you look close enough - its still a craphole!!
Microsoft may be the big bad monster, but that doesn't make the opposition the good guys, be objective. -
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