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56 Comments
- zeth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16In Sweden it's actually legal to break DRM for personal use.
- styryx, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22I didn't read the article, because you should probably learn something about windows vista and trusted computing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing [wikipedia]
you know those corporations would rather die than relinquish profits. But as long as people keep buying their songs and DRM'd crap then it'll keep fueling the RIAA/MPAA/666AA sueing machine.
BOYCOTT the RIAA: http://www.boycottriaa.com/
There are a million progressive rock bands on MySpace etc... Giving music away FOR FREE. It's better, honestly, it's original, a lot of it's bad, but it doesn't matter, because it didn't cost me a dime, I guess I won't go see that band.... get it? - Angostura, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Just in case you are wondering, the glaring error in the summary's logic is found in this clause: "...as long as we have general purpose computers capable of running whatever code someone cares to write..."
The point of trusting computing is to ensure that you no longer have a general purpose computer running whatever code. It is designed to ensure that in order to access DRM'd content X, you have to be using "approved" software, in the form of drivers, OS, the player etc. If you try to insert some "untrusted" software into that chain, you won't get to see the content.
In other words; you computer is no longer a general device for you to do whatever you want with. - whizzbang, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Breaking the law isn't always wrong. People tend to do what they think is "right" rather than what the law is. If the music industry convince people they are "wrong" to copy, people wont copy, if they tell them "Its a against the law, so don't do it" then people will just ignore them.
- doubledoh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Yes, but there will always be Linux waiting in the wings. As soon as the content industry pushes too hard and strips too many rights from the consumer, Linux and its increasing brood of developers and users will be there to welcome its disgruntled users.
I've been running Ubuntu on one of my machines for over a year now...and it still needs some refining to be sure, but give it another year or so, and it will be serious competition to anything from Redmond. It's a catch-22 situation though...Linux won't be a force to be reckoned with until more people use (and subsequently develop/support) it, and alot of people won't move to Linux until all their hardware is compatible and their favourite software is emulated (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, etc) which requires more people to justify pandering to the market. Still, despite these hurdles, Linux and all it's many distrobutions plod onward and open source software continues to improve, become more user friendly, and is increasingly compatible with the slew of hardware out there.
There will always be a balance. If DRM pushes too hard, open source solutions will push back. - doubledoh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Go back to your regressive cave.
- strcmp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7There is an economic reason for this also. DRM yields no benefit to the consumer. Some companies will eventually learn to sell non-DRM products as it will increase their sales.
- fquednau, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6It will then become the challenge to fake the trustworthiness of your custom code, or to manipulate the checking of trustworthiness such that all code is trusted. Either way, it will become just a whole lot more difficult to break the lock, but it will be possible nonetheless, if only under lab conditions. Nothing is unbreakable, a statement based purely on empiric evidence.
- Chairmclee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6What I don't understand is why people still manage to accept that intellectual property is still worth anything. The rights of a device that you have bought should surely outweigh the conceptual rights of the ability that forces you to not have freedom to use it how you wanted. This Trusting computing system takes away power from the consumer to protect things that barely exist. The system of restricting a basic user's rights does not ever prevent the one who are providing the most damaging intellectual property theft. An experienced user should have no problem getting around DRM, unless it has become so restricted that your computer is completely controlled by outside interests
- mistshadow2k4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You don't know the law. Many forms of breaking DRM is NOT illegal in any way. In point of fact, a great deal of DRM is illegal but simply hasn't been challenged in court because individual users don't have the money to sue large corporations. Copy protection on games and Windows install discs are perfect examples - the law says you're entitled to make backup copies of all software, but the EULA for Windows and most games says you're not. In these cases, that portion of the EULA is actually illegal.
- ddig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Realx. We will always, always have generic computers. There is a very large class of Turing equivalent machines. These can be implemented on top of DRM-crippled "trusted" computers. There are powerful undecidability theorems that all but guarantee the futility of the underlying machine detecting that this is what you are doing and trying to stop you.
(Note: This is not the same as saying that any DRM is breakable; just that we will always have generic computers that allow us to have a go at it.) - sanjay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5so how long after that before ppl realise that its ***** and freedom is more important and return to vista and the other stuff.................?
- k81ng, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What a human can make,
a human can break. - GingerDog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Going slightly away from Copyright....
The problem is that Vista and all current new motherboards support Trusted Computing. In November (assuming Vista releases on time) people will upgrade to it - hoping for : better graphics, gaming performance, security, reliability etc.
Then in a few months/years, they will finally discover that they won't be able to do what they used to be able to.
Imagine if CDs had been encumbered with the same level of DRM applied to e.g. iTunes... it would not be possible to have e.g. personal music collections, personal ring tones, to play a cd in a car / on an mp3 player etc.
In a few years time it may well not be possible to do e.g. online banking (trusted platforms only, thanks!) , online gaming (we can't tell if that's a legit version of the software, so you'd better upgrade), running MS Office or many other activities/programs we currently take for granted. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Isn't the RIAA trying to make ripping music from a CD you own to your MP3 player illegal?
- powerofprimes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6The story *does* mention trusted computing but it is lame nonetheless. Instead of discussing alternatives to DRM (the business model) the author sites a Russian mp3 site (of "dogdy legality) and the ripping of CDs by his daughter as examples of how DRM (the technology) is flawed. Also he should not confuse DRM the technology with DRM the tool of enforcement of a business model by the RIAA, MPAA, BSA, etc. DRM does not exist solely for the purpose of media companies, though they are it's greatest supporters to date.
- stealthboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I really feel terrible for the teenagers who will be growing up in an age of a "protected computer" or whatever The Man will call it. No more hobby software coders. Our entire tech industry is doomed. Seriously, I would not be a software developer today if I didn't have my "general purpose" computer back in high school.
- SupermanX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Strangely enough, what you have suggested is NOT Piracy. What you have suggested is perfectly legal, and is actually the reason the libraries have the CD's. However with the new DRM protected CD's you will not be able to do this. That is what the goal is.
The music industry wishes to sell you music on thier terms... by making illegal any options to exercise your legal rights (to listen how you like) they can then sell you the same song multiple times... and the end result is that they make more money for the same product. The industry is striving to maximize thier profits on EACH investment.If they can charge you 10x for the same song... then every song is a hit. - sadsac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The worst thing about DRM is the accompanying DRM laws. These laws restrict speech, learning, and knowledge. The people who are designing today's DRM systems probably learned a lot about protection technology by reverse engineering prior DRM methods and talking to other people about it. The DRM laws (DCMA and the like) prohibit openly talking (or publishing) about how specific DRM works or how to undo DRM. How will flaws in DRM be discovered? How will the next generation learn how to design DRM? It is now more legal in the US to talk (and publish) about the design of specific nuclear weapons than it is to talk about the design of specific DRM systems. Why?... because the content providers have paid off governments to enact laws to restrict this speech.... Few in government understand DRM, but they sure understand money, which the content providers are only too happy to pay for laws that prohibit speech about DRM. And this speech must be restricted only because DRM is so ineffective that with such speech its ineffectiveness is so easily demonstrated.
- dj_sea2005, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5myspace is good and all, but if you want some awesome free rock/pop music go to www.rock-industries.com they even have "DI Ratings" so you can teel witch songs are good or bad.
they even have a dance/trance music mirror. www.dance-indsutries.com - Turminator999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Zeth I am moving to Sweden ASAP, natural blonds and legal piracy. It must be heaven on earth.
- tonyspencer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Well, if that happens, then MS will lose a lot of business to Mac OS and Linux...
- krewemaynard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"...as long as we have general purpose computers capable of running whatever code someone cares to write then there will always be ways around those content locks."
Ah, there's the rub. The time will likely come when we won't have nearly as many local machines any more. We'll have thin clients with software that runs on massive backend network servers, and we'l have little or no control over them and their DRM schemes.
It's going to be a while, because hardware is so entrenched, but it's still a distinct possibility. - rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Why would you comment without reading the article? It was very well written and was not slanted to any one OS. Basically it said that DRM can't succeed unless we freeze any progress and stay on the platforms we have now or we go to trusted computers. Both of which aren't going to happen.
I agree and will go further to say that the people who are pouring millions of dollars/euros/pounds or whatever currency to buy DRM encoded media are pissing their money away and will have little to show in a couple years. I expect multiple lawsuits by individual states and individuals against the like of Apple, Microsoft and the other media companies that provided DRMed products that have the shelf life of a goldfish. In other words sell your stocks in these companies at the first hint of impending lawsuits.
Buy media that is DRM free and that can be converted to whatever new format comes around. I guess it's sort of like Darwin's Theory, those that spend money on dead-end technology will end up with nothing and those that want to keep what they worked for will keep what they have and will survive inevitable change. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Let me know when geek terrorism starts against our evil DRM oppressors...
- tryferos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Plain and simple, DRM is doomed because its the world vs. the creators of DRM. The collective intelligence of the programming/hacking/anti-drm community far out weighs the relatively small amount of people creating and enforcing it. That ratio wont ever change and there will always be another "DVD Jon" waiting to crack the latest security.....
- Itkovian, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3No, this is why general computing is doomed :-)
- Web_Weasel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This is one of the better written and to the point articles on DRM I've read.
- cibby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I agree with krewemaynard: 'The time will likely come when we won't have nearly as many local machines any more.'
I think all the big companies out there would love it if we all relinquished our control. Have you noticed how Windows has given less and less control to the user? Soon, we'll just be running it on a client. - CreativeGuy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Here's a FREE and easy way around any DRM around. Go to your local Library, check out the music CD you want, burn a copy at any bit setting you want, return it to Library and check out more.
That being said, I don't endorse piracy in any way. But having tried to use a song in an iMovie that I purchased legally from the iTMS and not being able to, I'm fed up with DRMs! - tomm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Unfortunately, while I have faith in people being able to crack DRM mechanisms, should they wish to, the DRM protection is getting more and more sophisticated?
* FairPlay has only been half-cracked - you still need a viable licence for the song to be able to de-protect it
* WMA DRM - the current version still remains unbroken, AFAIK.
There is currently a big difference between DRM used for soft media, like downloaded songs, and DRM used for DVDs and their successors. Despite the DVD DRM having been broken, the logistical difficulties of altering the DVD protection, having hold millions of players, made it impossible. This doesn't apply to soft media. Apple or M$ (or whoever) can change their DRM mechanism to response to a crack, as they control the PC-based codecs, and can also require re-flashing of any players that would need updating (this obviously easier for Apple, given their control of the iPod platform)
I suspect that BluRay and HD-DVD hardware will all be re-flashable, and thus able to circumvent DRM cracks relatively quickly. :-( - Hubso, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Re: trusted computing
Check out this animation looking at Trusted Computing: http://www.lafkon.net/tc/
It's probably a little biased, but is nicely done and reasonably thought provoking. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1DRM is here to stay and it will only get worse. Hardware controls and trusted computing will become more repressive. Linux can't circumvent well-designed controls in Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players/recorders. Won't the replacement for the traditional PC BIOS make it easier to lock down machines? I'd almost rather have to deal with viruses and spyware than trusted computing.
- fani, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Trusted Computing means they DONT trust you to make decisions. They decide for you what you can and cannot do. So why should you trust them ?"
Nice way to put it. Down with DRM. I've stopped buying CD's/DVD's for a few years now. I don't want to contribute to RIAA or MPAA anymore. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2oh don't worry these large companies know this. thats why they are pushing trusted computing and harsh penalties for unlocking drm.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Once Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs become popular look for content providers to make it harder to buy DVDs and music CDs. By then they'll have consumers by their balls.
- alky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Agreed! Even if they lock the computer down you can just abstract one on top of it. It'd be slightly slower, but you only need to run it long enough to break the lock.
- iiftmlis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Have DVD player manufacturers rushed to provide us with region free DVD players? That would be an advantage in the marketplace wouldn't it?
- angulion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0To iiftmlis, if you google a little you will find that there is a lot of region free DVD-players, some as-is, some after you enter a code on the remote.
- SpicyMike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The problem with DRM is that it restricts the rule-abiding purchaser almost as much as it does the evil pirates. Quite simply, as was said, what one person can make, another can unmake. Plus there are people who break copy protection simply for the challenge, not because they want to profit by it.
Galactic Civilizations 2 is one game that has zero DRM to it - because Stardock decided they'd rather run the risk of piracy instead of harrassing honest customers. I think they're a good example of why DRM simply isn't needed as much as the big companies say it is. - Arevos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@tomm
Currently there's no real incentive to crack WMA or FairPlay. The content distributed on those formats is available on CDs and DVDs. I'm unaware of any content being sold on BluRay as yet.
When CDs and DVDs are phased out, then people will turn their attention to cracking the next major DRM format. - tomm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0When the WMA DRM and the Fairplay DRM, let alone the Blu-ray DRM, are fully cracked, I'll rest a little easier. Until then... ;-(
- angulion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0And it only takes *one* that manages to break the DRM or via analog record it and encode in a non-encumbered format and upload to some P2P network... and the piracy goes on which DRM was "supposed" to stop (no, DRM is about control, to sell once for you computer and another for your "mp3-player").
- fuzzywitman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This article doesn't say anything new or interesting. Not dugg.
- stuartnoble, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I used to work in DRM software development. I recently left, and one of the major reasons I had (internally) was because I didn't feel comfortable with what I was doing. At work I restricted people's rights, outside I advocated them. I felt like I was being a little hypocritical.
I'm a Microsoft developer. Didn't plan to be, it just ended up that way. But I feel that Windows XP will be the last Microsoft OS I will be investing in. DRM needs to be stopped now, it's just too restrictive and damaging to consumer's rights. - Reddog_x2000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1This is why it's good to be able to do stuff for yourself. Even if this crap takes hold, most of us will be able to build our own systems running Linux, or an older version of windows and avoid all this *****.
- jpick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0DRM is not doomed.
It will always be the solution for big companies that want to lock in their marketshare.
Pity the consumer.
Donate to the EFF. - ianam, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1It must take special effort to be so clueless. The question is not whether it is theoretically possible to bypass DRM by making arbitrary (illegal) modifications to the hardware, the question is whether this "dooms" DRM.
- ianam, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1"The problem is that digital rights management relies on locking content away, and as long as we have general purpose computers capable of running whatever code someone cares to write then there will always be ways around those content locks.
That might change if we get "trusted" computers which will only run approved programs, but even then nobody is going to come round and collect today's PCs from our homes, so there are going to be enough open systems around to cause problems for any DRM systems out there."
Could Thompson be any more of a moron? No matter how many open systems there are -- and forced obsolescence will make then less and less useful -- the percentage of "trusted" computers will continue to increase, making the locks more and more effective. The DRM fascists couldn't care less if, 5 years from now, Bill Thompson is sitting in a cave somewhere with his ancient open system that isn't compatible with anything, while everyone else has been forced to buy "trusted" computers in order to use the latest technology. - psylence, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0DRM is doomed because no companies support it.
Oh.. wait...
Maybe it's because nobody has an OS that locks you into using it.
Oh.. wait.. you will soon...
Hmm, yeah, it's DOoOOoOmMMeeDD!!1!11one -
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